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[IEM] Katowice 2023 - RO8, RO4, Grand Finals - Page 95

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Balance whining will be moderated aggressively

-Wax
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2709 Posts
February 13 2023 17:32 GMT
#1881
On February 14 2023 00:04 dysenterymd wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2023 23:46 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On February 13 2023 07:13 Glorfindelio wrote:
On February 13 2023 06:47 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Big Oliveira fan now, didn't know he was so wholesome!
And the way he played was just so amazing, he was on top of everything!
Curious to see if his skill really jumped and will maintain in the future, or if he just played out of his mind today.



Oliveria/Time has always been a good dude, so couldn't be happier for him. General life parable of how hard work and determination intersects with a bit of luck sometimes to produce an amazing result. Especially when you consider how close he came to retiring and the upheaval in China with Blizzard.

I mean, just an insane, wild bracket--Serral forgetting how to play ZvZ/not practicing it and leaving a 50/50 won game (seriously, rewatch it), Rogue being in the military, Dark getting crushed by Hero--but also Time clutching it up and reverse sweeping Reynor and then beating the best TvT player in Sc2 history in the biggest and most unlikely match of his life.

How can you not be inspired by that. Don't know how many of you watch the NBA, but insert Kevin Garnet yelling "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE."


Yeah that was definitely one of the most amazing things to happen in SC2 history!
Arguably the most notable tournament/finals, other than maybe Serral being the first foreigner to win whatever he won I forget (since Serral wasn't great until then, kinda like Oliveira), or maybe MVP vs Squirtle.



Serral wasn't great before 2018, but he came into Blizzcon 2018 with such great form that him winning wasn't remotely surprising - still a big moment because he was the first foreigner to do it though. Oliveira was truly out of nowhere, he didn't play too many international tournaments and got bopped in the one he did attend (DHM Atlanta.)


Yeah Oliveira got 0-6'd at Atlanta and didn't even make top 32, though there were signs of brilliance with his run to the TSL9 winner's semifinal before being stopped by visa, and winning recent ESL cups beating Dark multiple times. He also made top 4 of DH last chance a year ago beating Zest, Elazer, and DRG.
very illegal and very uncool
argonautdice
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada2709 Posts
February 13 2023 17:37 GMT
#1882
On February 13 2023 21:50 dysenterymd wrote:
Although hitting perfect attack timings was the main thing that clinched it for TIME, it's worth noting that he also beat Reynor and Maru in late games. Truly a beastly day of games.

Also definitely watch TIME vs Dark game 2 and TIME vs Clem game 1 in the group stage for some incredible late game and comeback. It's kind of weird to say this, but TIME made all the terran opponents he faced look helpless.
very illegal and very uncool
SootShade
Profile Joined October 2018
31 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-14 03:08:54
February 14 2023 03:08 GMT
#1883
On February 14 2023 00:42 TossHeroes wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 13 2023 23:46 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
On February 13 2023 07:13 Glorfindelio wrote:
On February 13 2023 06:47 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Big Oliveira fan now, didn't know he was so wholesome!
And the way he played was just so amazing, he was on top of everything!
Curious to see if his skill really jumped and will maintain in the future, or if he just played out of his mind today.



Oliveria/Time has always been a good dude, so couldn't be happier for him. General life parable of how hard work and determination intersects with a bit of luck sometimes to produce an amazing result. Especially when you consider how close he came to retiring and the upheaval in China with Blizzard.

I mean, just an insane, wild bracket--Serral forgetting how to play ZvZ/not practicing it and leaving a 50/50 won game (seriously, rewatch it), Rogue being in the military, Dark getting crushed by Hero--but also Time clutching it up and reverse sweeping Reynor and then beating the best TvT player in Sc2 history in the biggest and most unlikely match of his life.

How can you not be inspired by that. Don't know how many of you watch the NBA, but insert Kevin Garnet yelling "ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE."


Yeah that was definitely one of the most amazing things to happen in SC2 history!
Arguably the most notable tournament/finals, other than maybe Serral being the first foreigner to win whatever he won I forget (since Serral wasn't great until then, kinda like Oliveira), or maybe MVP vs Squirtle.

But also, as a Serral fan, i was quite tilted at him leaving the game.
I understand that often times, when viewers feel a game isn't over yet, the pro knows and is right that it's definitely over.
But THAT game? G5 in the world championships? I do not get how you can not just stay in the game for 10 more seconds and play it out. Is it pride? Is it fear of coming off as if you're disrespecting your opponent? If that is your last game there is absolutely no reason, if you really want the highest chance of winning, to not stay for a little longer.

There were 11 Roaches popping out for Serral, ~5 roaches still alive, and all Ragnarok had at Serral's front was like ~3 morphing Ravagers, ~5 Roaches, and ~15 lings on the way.
Serral's wave of Roaches that were coming out in a couple seconds would have fended and pushed off Ragnarok's ~5 Roaches and ~3 Ravagers, until his lings came. By that time, Serral could have even evacuated his drones from his third to his natural, and bought time at his ramp since he had a wall and a choke.
Even if he did lose his 15-20 drones at his 3rd, they would still be even in workers, Serral may even be up a few drones still... and there's no way Ragnarok could kill the 3rd in time without Serral mustering more forces.

The 1 reason i can think of as to maybe why it was actually over, is if Serral lost all his Queens and had no more injects/larvae? If only he had the judgement to pull 15 workers to defend that push, cus even if he lost them he'd still be up 5-8 workers or something and at least survive, but oh well. Either way though, whether it's a miscalculation and he left too early or he should have pulled some drones to tank, it's a skill issue, so while I feel bad, i guess it's up to him to improve on for next time.


Most likely Serral just had a poor read of the situation. He even saw there was no drone saturation at rag’s third

Serral lost majority of his zvz series this tournament.

Serral always had a habit of leaving the game a bit earlier, whereas his peers would usually keep fighting until they are “truly” dead.



Yeah, I think Serral had an exceptionally bad read of that game all the way through. It happens to him occasionally - usually his ability to read the game state is what really sets him apart as a player, but every now and then that inexplicably reverses and he seemingly instead gets completely the wrong idea stuck in his head. This was just an exceptionally tragic case, with it being the last map of the play-offs series and him seemingly actually being in a winning position still at the end. As a fan it was absolutely galling.

Yet I'm honestly almost glad that it happened. Because however shaky his ZvZ is sometimes, as far as TvZ goes I honestly think he's the one player that would have stopped Oliveira's momentum if they met in the bracket stage, and I don't think Maru would have stopped Serral either. But that's of course an entirely pointless counterfactual, and I could be very wrong, especially considering just how beastly Oliveira's decision making was by the time he got to the finals. He was clearly picking up speed through the entire bracket stage, so it's entirely possible he would have just leveled up as much as was necessary to win, even if someone else had put up more of a fight than Maru did in the finals.
Classic15d
Profile Joined January 2023
3 Posts
February 14 2023 03:41 GMT
#1884
Oliveira'win made me feel a lot.Those unfamiliar with Oliveira may not know how rich he is. His game talent is probably high compared to the average person. But it's still a long way from the top players like Serral and maru. He needs to work harder to fill them.He could have driven a fancy sports car and lived in a fancy villa.Even picking up girls like every rich kid we know.But Oliveira chose to train for 12 or even 15 hours a day. He would shut himself up in his computer house every night like a mouse, curling up in his esports chair and practicing over and over until his hands grew blood blisters and calluses.So when Oliveira said during his acceptance speech that he loved the game, it wasn't just a speech. It was from the heart.Full disclosure: I'm 21 years old. Just a year younger than Oliveira. I couldn't find my passion for a long time. I thought I just wanted to make more money, because then I could have beautiful cars and beautiful women. I thought this was my passion. But look at Oliveira. I think I'm going to find a career that I really love and put my efforts into it.
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9014 Posts
February 17 2023 13:52 GMT
#1885
On February 14 2023 12:41 Classic15d wrote:
Oliveira'win made me feel a lot.Those unfamiliar with Oliveira may not know how rich he is. His game talent is probably high compared to the average person. But it's still a long way from the top players like Serral and maru. He needs to work harder to fill them.He could have driven a fancy sports car and lived in a fancy villa.Even picking up girls like every rich kid we know.But Oliveira chose to train for 12 or even 15 hours a day. He would shut himself up in his computer house every night like a mouse, curling up in his esports chair and practicing over and over until his hands grew blood blisters and calluses.So when Oliveira said during his acceptance speech that he loved the game, it wasn't just a speech. It was from the heart.Full disclosure: I'm 21 years old. Just a year younger than Oliveira. I couldn't find my passion for a long time. I thought I just wanted to make more money, because then I could have beautiful cars and beautiful women. I thought this was my passion. But look at Oliveira. I think I'm going to find a career that I really love and put my efforts into it.

This reads like a copy pasta.
Hider
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Denmark9362 Posts
Last Edited: 2023-02-19 21:13:30
February 19 2023 21:07 GMT
#1886
I guess this finally settles the debate to the people who were arguing that Serral was dead.


As I had speculated, Pig also concluded that Serral most likely wasn't aware just how many Roaches had in production and underestimated his drone advantage.

There was never a question as to whether Serral would hold or not. He would hold 100%, the question was only who would be ahead afterwards.
Azzur
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia6255 Posts
February 20 2023 05:27 GMT
#1887
On February 20 2023 06:07 Hider wrote:
I guess this finally settles the debate to the people who were arguing that Serral was dead. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwj8B4m-H_o&t=2625s

As I had speculated, Pig also concluded that Serral most likely wasn't aware just how many Roaches had in production and underestimated his drone advantage.

There was never a question as to whether Serral would hold or not. He would hold 100%, the question was only who would be ahead afterwards.

It didn't even matter who would've had the advantage afterwards - even if Serral had a 1% chance of winning, he should've played on since it was game5 and his tournament would've been over after the loss. If it was game1, leaving early is understandable.
davetesta
Profile Joined June 2019
United States72 Posts
February 24 2023 00:46 GMT
#1888
To our Korean friends: I made a post in Touranments, $400+ KR Weekly Open starting up!

Message ChickenmanSC or DaveTestaSC on twitter or discord!
"Oh s@#t! They found my proxy!"
G5
Profile Blog Joined August 2005
United States2894 Posts
February 27 2023 02:54 GMT
#1889
"Balance whining will be moderated aggressively

-Wax"

Why would this be moderated aggressively? Is it an issue for people on a forum to discuss imbalances in the game or on maps during a tournament? Seems like an odd take.
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10301 Posts
February 28 2023 18:05 GMT
#1890
On February 27 2023 11:54 G5 wrote:
"Balance whining will be moderated aggressively

-Wax"

Why would this be moderated aggressively? Is it an issue for people on a forum to discuss imbalances in the game or on maps during a tournament? Seems like an odd take.


I think you know the difference between balance whining and discussing imbalance
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Jockmcplop
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom9508 Posts
February 28 2023 18:07 GMT
#1891
There must be places to go 'discuss balance'.
Let me ask, what do those places normally end up like?
RIP Meatloaf <3
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