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On July 29 2022 20:57 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 20:56 Vindicare605 wrote:
Just saying. herO won a code S before Trap did. He was a relevant player before Trap was, so it makes sense 
Not the point.
The point is, Protoss was in a really horrific spot a little while ago when Trap was their only championship caliber player because Trap has a mental fortitude problem that costs him on big stages, it has happened time and time again.
If Trap was the only hope, Protoss wasn't going to win anything. herO retired, did his miltiary service, came back and won Code S before Trap could manage it, because herO has a champion's mentality.
Furthermore, herO's success is final proof (even though we had already plenty of evidence from Byun, DRG and Gumiho) that SC2 pros can do their military service and still come back strong enough to compete at the top level. That's good news for Protoss who has a bunch of their best players either in the military or just coming back from it.
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United States33180 Posts
Hopefully this tilts Maru into playing Protoss in TSL9; it's rumored to be quite good :0
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France12761 Posts
On July 29 2022 21:09 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 20:57 Durnuu wrote:On July 29 2022 20:56 Vindicare605 wrote:
Just saying. herO won a code S before Trap did. He was a relevant player before Trap was, so it makes sense Not the point. The point is, Protoss was in a really horrific spot a little while ago when Trap was their only championship caliber player because Trap has a mental fortitude problem that costs him on big stages, it has happened time and time again. If Trap was the only hope, Protoss wasn't going to win anything. herO retired, did his miltiary service, came back and won Code S before Trap could manage it, because herO has a champion's mentality.
I don’t think it is as simple as that though, Trap has faced top zergs in the most imbalanced era of LotV so tough luck.
herO has achieved what Zest could not even though Zest also has a champion’s mentality
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No Creator or G5L bummer for me this Season.
Congrats to herO though.
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I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something?
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On July 29 2022 21:09 Waxangel wrote:
Hopefully this tilts Maru into playing Protoss in TSL9; it's rumored to be quite good :0
He should go for random as this would save him partially from having to face EU Zergs in their most-practiced matchup.
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On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something?
no that was just this series. TvP usually doesn't look like this.
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On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something?
Honestly, it was just Maru this series. Terran usually has a lot options (to mention just one: proxying anything).
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On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something?
Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push.
Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment.
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France12761 Posts
On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something? Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push. Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment.
MaxPax does the same kind of stuff but since he only plays online he won’t get near the same level of glory
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Brazil3449 Posts
On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something?
Has been this way for years, when Terran starts the third CC he's conceding defeat pretty much.
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On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something? Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push. Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment.
I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success.
The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game.
Turtling against Protoss doesn't work
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On July 29 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something? Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push. Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment. I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success. The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game. Turtling against Protoss doesn't work
There just isnt a really good options against what herO is doing though imo. He will go early Blink to fight off mine drop/harrassment then went Charge/Storm Archon which means any 2 base Terran push wont kill the 3rd base. Then he move into double Robo Disruptor and adding Immortal/Colossi to really push the Terran army backward. Terran will be turtling whether they want it or not until they have the army to fight back, while Protoss is feee to take 2-3 bases and start to get ahead.
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On July 29 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something? Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push. Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment. I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success. The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game. Turtling against Protoss doesn't work
There is a gameplan where it can work, but it's a hail mary play involving Battlecruiser hit squads. I have seen it work, albeit not for a long time and not on this map pool.
It's definitely NOT ideal. Maru was playing far too conservatively not just in the last game but throughout the entire series. You can give him a break for game 1, because that was just filth and herO was massively all in on it. But in games 2,4 and 5 Maru was just committed to playing very conservatively giving herO all of the choices in the match up.
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On July 29 2022 21:40 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something? Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push. Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment. I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success. The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game. Turtling against Protoss doesn't work There is a gameplan where it can work, but it's a hail mary play involving Battlecruiser hit squads. I have seen it work, albeit not for a long time and not on this map pool. It's definitely NOT ideal. Maru was playing far too conservatively not just in the last game but throughout the entire series. You can give him a break for game 1, because that was just filth and herO was massively all in on it. But in games 2,4 and 5 Maru was just committed to playing very conservatively giving herO all of the choices in the match up.
Maru consistently pulled SCV which is probably the most aggro thing Terran can do other than 1 base all-in. herO just defend it so well with his build and control
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On July 29 2022 21:39 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something? Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push. Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment. I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success. The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game. Turtling against Protoss doesn't work There just isnt a really good options against what herO is doing though imo. He will go early Blink to fight off mine drop/harrassment then went Charge/Storm Archon which means any 2 base Terran push wont kill the 3rd base. Then he move into double Robo Disruptor and adding Immortal/Colossi to really push the Terran army backward. Terran will be turtling whether they want it or not until they have the army to fight back, while Protoss is feee to take 2-3 bases and start to get ahead.
Yeah his style seems really strong. I'm curious how the terrans will adapt to this if it becomes meta.
edit: I guess just playing greedier in the early game instead of going for a 2 base push could be good
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Legend of the Fall! The prophecy is finally fulfilled!
Z > P > T > Z... Ah, balance is finally restored!
(just kidding on that last one, Zerg still da master race m****f****rs!)
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On July 29 2022 20:59 Creager wrote:
So who's gonna resurrect Mvp to take a shot at G5L? We could do a kickstarter to fund some bionic wrists maybe
aww hell yeah! take my money  bionic wrists for Mvp's G5L and to patch up the balance at the highest level
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herO did it for Aiur! Stopped the insufferable Maru fanboys
Totally outclass Maru
We believe in Rogue in this quest for G5L
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On July 29 2022 21:44 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2022 21:39 tigera6 wrote:On July 29 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote:On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:
1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.
it this all that is? am I missing something? Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push. Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment. I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success. The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game. Turtling against Protoss doesn't work There just isnt a really good options against what herO is doing though imo. He will go early Blink to fight off mine drop/harrassment then went Charge/Storm Archon which means any 2 base Terran push wont kill the 3rd base. Then he move into double Robo Disruptor and adding Immortal/Colossi to really push the Terran army backward. Terran will be turtling whether they want it or not until they have the army to fight back, while Protoss is feee to take 2-3 bases and start to get ahead. Yeah his style seems really strong. I'm curious how the terrans will adapt to this if it becomes meta. edit: I guess just playing greedier in the early game instead of going for a 2 base push could be good
Might sound crazy, but I think the counter to this is Banshee. Instead of gettting 10 tanks and 6-7 libs, get 7-8 Banshee out with speed and cloak that can both harrass and support the Bio units very well. But yeah, I just speaking out of my ass and somebody need to put that into the work.
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EPT
