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[GSL 2022] Code S - Grand Finals (Season 2) - Page 12

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Xain0n
Profile Joined November 2018
Italy3963 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-07-29 13:35:13
July 29 2022 13:35 GMT
#221
I am ecstatic!

Protoss eventually topping a big event and herO winning his first code S title is exactly what I wanted to see.
Harris1st
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany6931 Posts
July 29 2022 13:41 GMT
#222
Maru already has 4 titles, let herO have this one. It is well deserved and about time!
Go Serral! GG EZ for Ence. Flashbang dance FTW
WombaT
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Northern Ireland25419 Posts
July 29 2022 13:41 GMT
#223
Finally a Protoss champion!

For better or worse it did seem Maru showed up without a huge amount up his sleeve in terms of sneaky prep. Just play solid isn’t a bad plan if you’re well, Maru but that didn’t seem to cut the mustard today.

Biased fanboy in me hopes that despite failing to break that GSL curse, people don’t sleep on how good Trap was there for the last few years.
'You'll always be the cuddly marsupial of my heart, despite the inherent flaws of your ancestry' - Squat
swarminfestor
Profile Joined September 2017
Malaysia2449 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-07-29 13:51:31
July 29 2022 13:48 GMT
#224
On July 29 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2022 21:44 Charoisaur wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:39 tigera6 wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:

1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.

it this all that is? am I missing something?

Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push.
Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment.

I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success.
The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game.

Turtling against Protoss doesn't work

There just isnt a really good options against what herO is doing though imo. He will go early Blink to fight off mine drop/harrassment then went Charge/Storm Archon which means any 2 base Terran push wont kill the 3rd base. Then he move into double Robo Disruptor and adding Immortal/Colossi to really push the Terran army backward. Terran will be turtling whether they want it or not until they have the army to fight back, while Protoss is feee to take 2-3 bases and start to get ahead.

Yeah his style seems really strong. I'm curious how the terrans will adapt to this if it becomes meta.

edit: I guess just playing greedier in the early game instead of going for a 2 base push could be good

Might sound crazy, but I think the counter to this is Banshee. Instead of gettting 10 tanks and 6-7 libs, get 7-8 Banshee out with speed and cloak that can both harrass and support the Bio units very well. But yeah, I just speaking out of my ass and somebody need to put that into the work.


Banshees are okay, but I still think having more Libs are more beneficial in long run. Knowing herO as masterclass in microing spellcasters, he will tag Banshees using Oracles or feedbacks using HT to forbid Cloak thus reducing Banshee's health. That's how he did to Maru's Ghosts or Ravens a couple of times today to render them mostly ineffective, not often as other Protoss players did if I can recall.

Rogue & Maru fan boy. ^^
Poaktree
Profile Joined January 2017
165 Posts
July 29 2022 13:58 GMT
#225
I don't want to overreact but I don't think Maru is getting G5L, neither Rogue but get ready for her5 and G5L!
[PkF] Wire
Profile Joined March 2013
France24203 Posts
July 29 2022 14:10 GMT
#226
Damn, I jinxed it. But honestly looking at the games there was not much to do vs that herO, just too solid. Maybe Maru could have used some more sneakiness... Anyway, congrats to herO and hail to the new Protoss champion !
tigera6
Profile Joined March 2021
3397 Posts
July 29 2022 14:24 GMT
#227
On July 29 2022 22:48 swarminfestor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 29 2022 22:34 tigera6 wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:44 Charoisaur wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:39 tigera6 wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:30 Charoisaur wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:22 tigera6 wrote:
On July 29 2022 21:11 xsnac wrote:
I am genuinely curious how the meta evolved in such a way that Terrans have only 2 choices:

1) 2 base pull the boiz
2) sit on tanks/libs for 30 minutes and try to defend 2 bases+, maybe do some drop play if you are bored.

it this all that is? am I missing something?

Yeah, its been this way at the top level for quite some time. But you need insane awareness and micro as Protoss to pull that off and herO got both easily. Other Protoss will likely not having enough unit to defend the 3rd, or lose Probe to mine drop, and get smashed by Terran push.
Its like people crying that Ghost is OP in lategame TvZ but only Maru has been able to pull it off frequently enough. Only herO can do what the hes doing with the Toss at the moment.

I mean the 2nd scenario he described with Tank / Lib turtle just isn't a thing at pro level, Maru is the only one who sometimes tries this but with relatively low success.
The meta at the moment is just to play an active style with Bio Viking Ghost where you eventually get the jump on the Disruptors with a flank or surround and then win the game.

Turtling against Protoss doesn't work

There just isnt a really good options against what herO is doing though imo. He will go early Blink to fight off mine drop/harrassment then went Charge/Storm Archon which means any 2 base Terran push wont kill the 3rd base. Then he move into double Robo Disruptor and adding Immortal/Colossi to really push the Terran army backward. Terran will be turtling whether they want it or not until they have the army to fight back, while Protoss is feee to take 2-3 bases and start to get ahead.

Yeah his style seems really strong. I'm curious how the terrans will adapt to this if it becomes meta.

edit: I guess just playing greedier in the early game instead of going for a 2 base push could be good

Might sound crazy, but I think the counter to this is Banshee. Instead of gettting 10 tanks and 6-7 libs, get 7-8 Banshee out with speed and cloak that can both harrass and support the Bio units very well. But yeah, I just speaking out of my ass and somebody need to put that into the work.


Banshees are okay, but I still think having more Libs are more beneficial in long run. Knowing herO as masterclass in microing spellcasters, he will tag Banshees using Oracles or feedbacks using HT to forbid Cloak thus reducing Banshee's health. That's how he did to Maru's Ghosts or Ravens a couple of times today to render them mostly ineffective, not often as other Protoss players did if I can recall.


The problem with Libs is that they are immobile just like tanks, and against the Protoss with supreme micro like herO they are dead weight without the Bio Support. Maru literally cant move out of his base because the Tanks and Libs are useless in the middle of the map, getting baited and out-positioned easily. You need units that can deal damage and can be mobile enough to pull back or move elsewhere, Banshee and BC with teleport fits this well. Even if they dont deal damage, they can run, Libs and Tanks cant.
Moonerz
Profile Joined March 2014
United States445 Posts
July 29 2022 14:33 GMT
#228
Wow despite the fact Maru lost, what a night of GSL.

The crowd size, crowd hype, all the cool little drawings and cheers, really felt like the clock had been turned back. Great games by herO really awesome to see a toss champ.

Man that was just amazing to see all of that in 2022.
Gescom
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada3415 Posts
July 29 2022 14:39 GMT
#229
Godly series from herO. Who knew Protoss could be beautiful. ;}
Jaedong Hyuk || Bisu Jangbi || Fantasy Flash
Fanatic-Templar
Profile Joined February 2010
Canada5819 Posts
July 29 2022 14:54 GMT
#230
My golden boys finally made it, I'm so elated right now.

I don't know if it's that joy that's biasing my judgement, but it felt like a great finals despite 4-1 scoreline too.
I bear this sig to commemorate the loss of the team icon that commemorated Oversky's 2008-2009 Proleague Round 1 performance.
Husyelt
Profile Blog Joined May 2020
United States832 Posts
July 29 2022 15:12 GMT
#231
Both Maru and herO had immaculate control, I sat through this in awe. Maru constantly shifting army positions, and setting up arcs made every potential battle terrifying for the Protoss. Playing against Maru is like battling some form of liquid. herO won through dictating the game and perfect snipes / control in the right moments. 4-1, but highly entertaining. Best season of GSL in ages.

You're getting cynical and that won't do I'd throw the rose tint back on the exploded view
M3t4PhYzX
Profile Joined March 2019
Poland4197 Posts
July 29 2022 15:26 GMT
#232
Oldest GSL winner for sure, right?

great story

GGs!
odi profanum vulgus et arceo
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
July 29 2022 15:41 GMT
#233
On July 30 2022 00:26 M3t4PhYzX wrote:
Oldest GSL winner for sure, right?

great story

GGs!

Actually older than Nestea was the last time he won GSL. So yeah, herO has put up another record.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
Topin
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Peru10080 Posts
July 29 2022 16:18 GMT
#234
greats finals!!! what an intense series holy shit, i really enjoyed the finals despite Maru losing. congrats herO
i would define my style between a mix of ByuN, Maru and MKP
renaissanceMAN
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1840 Posts
July 29 2022 16:22 GMT
#235
so fucking annoyed

happy that hero/protoss finally got a GSL championship for the first time in 5 years but really starting to think Maru's got a problem in big games.
On August 15 2013 03:43 Waxangel wrote: no amount of money can replace the enjoyment of being mean to people on the internet
Durnuu
Profile Joined September 2013
13320 Posts
July 29 2022 16:59 GMT
#236
On July 30 2022 01:22 renaissanceMAN wrote:
so fucking annoyed

happy that hero/protoss finally got a GSL championship for the first time in 5 years but really starting to think Maru's got a problem in big games.

Yeah man I'm sure the guy with the most starleague wins in the korean sc2 scene has issues with big games.
BUNNYYYYYYYYY https://i.imgur.com/BiCF577.png
dysenterymd
Profile Joined January 2019
1237 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-07-29 17:05:54
July 29 2022 17:05 GMT
#237
On July 30 2022 01:59 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2022 01:22 renaissanceMAN wrote:
so fucking annoyed

happy that hero/protoss finally got a GSL championship for the first time in 5 years but really starting to think Maru's got a problem in big games.

Yeah man I'm sure the guy with the most starleague wins in the korean sc2 scene has issues with big games.

Maru's lost some big finals in the past few years, but it's basically always been a combination of his opponent being really good and or preparing super well. Maru honestly seems to have more "mentality" issues in earlier rounds where he occasionally goes for bizarre builds against worse opponents/has whack vetos.
Serral | Inno | sOs | soO | Has | Classic
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19240 Posts
July 29 2022 17:23 GMT
#238
On July 30 2022 01:59 Durnuu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2022 01:22 renaissanceMAN wrote:
so fucking annoyed

happy that hero/protoss finally got a GSL championship for the first time in 5 years but really starting to think Maru's got a problem in big games.

Yeah man I'm sure the guy with the most starleague wins in the korean sc2 scene has issues with big games.

I'd argue Bisu, the greatest Protoss from SC1, has the same issue. Won 3 MSL, multiple proleagues, and still seems like he has issues in the big moments over the past 12 years of his career. It doesn't take away from the players skill level or talents.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
Charoisaur
Profile Joined August 2014
Germany15961 Posts
July 29 2022 17:39 GMT
#239
On July 30 2022 01:22 renaissanceMAN wrote:
so fucking annoyed

happy that hero/protoss finally got a GSL championship for the first time in 5 years but really starting to think Maru's got a problem in big games.

There have been times where I felt Maru choked (mainly his finals against Rogue, but also the few games where he lost due to an incomplete wall) but today I think he played pretty well and did the best he could do - herO was just on fire today.
Many of the coolest moments in sc2 happen due to worker harassment
Elentos
Profile Blog Joined February 2015
55550 Posts
Last Edited: 2022-07-29 18:30:31
July 29 2022 18:25 GMT
#240
At most I'd argue that Maru's approach to series planning for GSL finals seems to have changed (gone downhill) at some point since winning his 4th. Back in his 1st against Stats, Maru used various funky builds that weren't exactly commonplace in the meta. Against TY (the first time), he proxied 5 times in 7 games. Maru managed to dictate the overall pace for all of those finals and other than against TY his wins were never in doubt.

Now compare that to the last 3 finals, though especially the ones against Rogue and herO. Maru had basically no initiative. His opponents dictated the flow of those matches and read him like a book.
On July 29 2022 22:41 WombaT wrote:
Biased fanboy in me hopes that despite failing to break that GSL curse, people don’t sleep on how good Trap was there for the last few years.

Trap was really good but honestly herO this season was just different. He had a certain flair or aura that the last Protoss GSL finalists all didn't really have. It was just very believable that he would win GSL this season from the start and I never got that feeling with Trap.
Every 60 seconds in Africa, a minute passes.
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