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angry_maia
301 Posts
For example, in game 4, Hero was well ahead, but then took a pretty bad engage up a ramp. Didn't end up being enough for Maru to win, but I think he probably thought things like this would happen a lot. As it turned out, the early game shenanigans always worked out reasonably well for Hero, and his play was just solid enough to convert almost every time he had a lead (except for that terrible attack in game 3 where he lost his entire army). | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
EDIT: I doubted him a lot here, and though Maru would win convincingly, but never-the-less, herO definitely gave off a good amount of that winner's sparkle. Redefining the meta for a matchup helped there, as did his frequent insane comebacks. | ||
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dysenterymd
1176 Posts
On July 30 2022 03:39 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Trap may have been an all-round very solid player, but I also didn't ever feel like he really seemed to have it in him to win things like blizzcon or GSL. I never felt he had... whatever combination of things beyond just being good at the game in a ladder-play-esque sense it is that players like MVP and Rogue have in spades. The championship winners spark? The clutchness? Plot armor? IDK what it is exactly, but it seemed to elude Trap. EDIT: I doubted him a lot here, and though Maru would win convincingly, but never-the-less, herO definitely gave off a good amount of that winner's sparkle. Redefining the meta for a matchup helped there, as did his frequent insane comebacks. It's sad because in some (smaller, admittedly) tournaments Trap really showed a huge amount of clutchness, like in his comebacks from 1-3 against Serral/Reynor in last chance and TSL. He just hasn't been able to show that in the biggest tournaments yet. Still hoping for him to win a big tournament, but with military service coming up time is running out. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
On July 30 2022 03:39 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Trap may have been an all-round very solid player, but I also didn't ever feel like he really seemed to have it in him to win things like blizzcon or GSL. I never felt he had... whatever combination of things beyond just being good at the game in a ladder-play-e be sense it is that players like MVP and Rogue have in spades. The championship winners spark? The clutchness? Plot armor? IDK what it is exactly, but it seemed to elude Trap. EDIT: I doubted him a lot here, and though Maru would win convincingly, but never-the-less, herO definitely gave off a good amount of that winner's sparkle. Redefining the meta for a matchup helped there, as did his frequent insane comebacks. Trap was basically a poor man Stats Mainly plays a safe predictable standard style. Just not as rock solid as Stats overall | ||
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xsnac
Barbados1365 Posts
On July 30 2022 04:39 TossHeroes wrote: Trap was basically a poor man Stats Mainly plays a safe predictable standard style. Just not as rock solid as Stats overall Being standard solid is a no-go for protoss. Rain was the definition of solid for protoss yet when he played sc2 he was not dominating. The race playstyle is not good for standard play. Yes he had success but he never made mistakes and still wasn't winning everything. | ||
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AzAlexZ
Australia3303 Posts
Revenge is sweet, especially because it was Maru of all people that got smacked | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24192 Posts
On July 30 2022 03:25 Elentos wrote: Now compare that to the last 3 finals, though especially the ones against Rogue and herO. Maru had basically no initiative. His opponents dictated the flow of those matches and read him like a book. Agree On July 30 2022 03:25 Elentos wrote: Trap was really good but honestly herO this season was just different. He had a certain flair or aura that the last Protoss GSL finalists all didn't really have. It was just very believable that he would win GSL this season from the start and I never got that feeling with Trap. Agree again | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On July 30 2022 06:51 AzAlexZ wrote: Just watched the replay and as a Protoss player, it was satisfying seeing herO dominate a final and completely smack the other race like they've smacked Protoss in GSL finals in the last 5 years. Revenge is sweet, especially because it was Maru of all people that got smacked Must feel good man, huh? Amazing play by herO and like always I love to see the smiling assassin smile :D | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On July 30 2022 03:25 Elentos wrote: At most I'd argue that Maru's approach to series planning for GSL finals seems to have changed (gone downhill) at some point since winning his 4th. Back in his 1st against Stats, Maru used various funky builds that weren't exactly commonplace in the meta. Against TY (the first time), he proxied 5 times in 7 games. Maru managed to dictate the overall pace for all of those finals and other than against TY his wins were never in doubt. Now compare that to the last 3 finals, though especially the ones against Rogue and herO. Maru had basically no initiative. His opponents dictated the flow of those matches and read him like a book. Trap was really good but honestly herO this season was just different. He had a certain flair or aura that the last Protoss GSL finalists all didn't really have. It was just very believable that he would win GSL this season from the start and I never got that feeling with Trap. Maybe Maru was indeed reliant on the Jin Air teamhouse preparation | ||
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JJH777
United States4378 Posts
On July 30 2022 03:25 Elentos wrote: Trap was really good but honestly herO this season was just different. He had a certain flair or aura that the last Protoss GSL finalists all didn't really have. It was just very believable that he would win GSL this season from the start and I never got that feeling with Trap. Trap never got a chance to play a Terran in any of his GSL finals. He had the misfortune of playing Rogue/Dark everytime despite making 4 finals. If Dark beats Maru I highly doubt hero wins this finals. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24326 Posts
On July 30 2022 03:39 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Trap may have been an all-round very solid player, but I also didn't ever feel like he really seemed to have it in him to win things like blizzcon or GSL. I never felt he had... whatever combination of things beyond just being good at the game in a ladder-play-esque sense it is that players like MVP and Rogue have in spades. The championship winners spark? The clutchness? Plot armor? IDK what it is exactly, but it seemed to elude Trap. EDIT: I doubted him a lot here, and though Maru would win convincingly, but never-the-less, herO definitely gave off a good amount of that winner's sparkle. Redefining the meta for a matchup helped there, as did his frequent insane comebacks. I think, with some exceptions some of that perception is formed more after the fact. Was it a lack of that clutch factor or was it merely Trap having to play Rogue/Dark with prep time in a pretty rough PvZ meta? Even when he was winning a bunch, making finals, setting the record Ro8 run etc I still felt were downplaying quite how good these achievements, I just don’t want them completely wiped out now herO’s got the monkey off the Protoss Nor do I wanna derail herO’s glorious achievements! I think the major difference between now and then is this much more entertaining and seemingly effective approach to PvZ that herO’s crafted. As a Protoss fan/general neutral long may it continue. Partly enabled by patches, partly a result of smart strategic experimentation on herO’s part. It certainly feels a lot more hopeful. Purely from a feeling/intuition level I give a Protoss (well, herO) a shot against Dark/Rogue in extended series, whereas previously I felt for Protoss to have a shot at winning they basically had to avoid facing either of them in a finals. | ||
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Fanatic-Templar
Canada5819 Posts
On July 30 2022 03:39 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: Trap may have been an all-round very solid player, but I also didn't ever feel like he really seemed to have it in him to win things like blizzcon or GSL. I never felt he had... whatever combination of things beyond just being good at the game in a ladder-play-esque sense it is that players like MVP and Rogue have in spades. The championship winners spark? The clutchness? Plot armor? IDK what it is exactly, but it seemed to elude Trap. People say that, but Hero didn't win this GSL during the nadir of PvZ where Trap was struggling alone. And it's also worth remembering that Hero didn't go to the military until what, December of 2019? Protoss wasn't winning much back then either, despite having him and Stats and Classic and Sos and all those players whose absence is sometimes attributed for Protoss' period of poor results. Well, Trap was in this GSL and he got eliminated in the group stages, so I guess that's as good an argument as any if you want to put the blame on Trap, but for myself I'm pretty skeptical that he would have saved us in the age of the Queen Walks. Whatever the actual reason was, Trap was the one who carried Protoss through the dark times, and I've got to respect him for that. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On July 30 2022 08:22 Fanatic-Templar wrote: People say that, but Hero didn't win this GSL during the nadir of PvZ where Trap was struggling alone. And it's also worth remembering that Hero didn't go to the military until what, December of 2019? Protoss wasn't winning much back then either, despite having him and Stats and Classic and Sos and all those players whose absence is sometimes attributed for Protoss' period of poor results. Well, Trap was in this GSL and he got eliminated in the group stages, so I guess that's as good an argument as any if you want to put the blame on Trap, but for myself I'm pretty skeptical that he would have saved us in the age of the Queen Walks. Whatever the actual reason was, Trap was the one who carried Protoss through the dark times, and I've got to respect him for that. Yeah I also think Trap was just unlucky he peaked during a time in which balance was really bad for Protoss. He still had an insane run but against Dark/Rogue with prep time in the previous Zerg favored meta there just wasn't any way for him to win. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On July 30 2022 08:40 Charoisaur wrote: Yeah I also think Trap was just unlucky he peaked during a time in which balance was really bad for Protoss. He still had an insane run but against Dark/Rogue with prep time in the previous Zerg favored meta there just wasn't any way for him to win. Trap wasn't at his peak yet when he faced Dark the first time in 2019 and was obliterated by one of the direst PvZ meta later in S3 that year. However, it would seem weird not to judge Trap the favorite or at least having an even chance when he reached the Code S finals in 2021 after having won six tournaments in the previous six months. Trap choked hard during that series and apparently never recovered from that loss... | ||
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KingofdaHipHop
United States25602 Posts
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tigera6
3219 Posts
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Moonerz
United States442 Posts
On July 30 2022 06:18 xsnac wrote: Being standard solid is a no-go for protoss. Rain was the definition of solid for protoss yet when he played sc2 he was not dominating. The race playstyle is not good for standard play. Yes he had success but he never made mistakes and still wasn't winning everything. Winning everything is a crazy high bar. Obviously the game was different back then but winning 2 star leagues is pretty damn good for a "solid no-go". Strategy diversity helps of course but its not like standard macro toss has never been effective. | ||
Seeker
Where dat snitch at?36951 Posts
Congrats to herO and Protoss though. The 5 year drought is over! | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13967 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On July 30 2022 07:59 JJH777 wrote: Trap never got a chance to play a Terran in any of his GSL finals. He had the misfortune of playing Rogue/Dark everytime despite making 4 finals. If Dark beats Maru I highly doubt hero wins this finals. I was not talking about just the finals, but the whole season. I had the feeling herO could win this season since the first group stage. I didn't get that with Creator, Zest, Trap, Stats, Classic or sOs. To Trap's credit he eventually got to the point where I was expecting him to get to the finals and then lose (Protoss soO style?) whereas all the other Protoss finalists I was kind of expecting to lose before the finals. | ||
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