EPT[GSL 2022] Code S:Season 2 - Round of 6 - Page 4
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Argonauta
Spain4948 Posts
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darklycid
3511 Posts
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serendipitous
Canada195 Posts
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Poopi
France12886 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
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Schelim
Austria11528 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On July 19 2022 00:05 tigera6 wrote: and also now Dark wont be doing the early double evol build against Maru anymore after seeing this. Maru wouldn't 2-base all-in Dark 3 games in a row (and get away with it) so I don't think this changed Dark's approach. Regarding the ghosts, I think it's probably something Maru found worked well in practice but didn't here. Although there really wasn't a reason for him to do that. Since he's the top of the world in TvT it should be on others to experiment and iterate to get one over on him, not the other way around. Although, coming back to his Ro4 opponent, being the best in the world at a matchup has never stopped Dark from putting himself behind with terrible roach strategies. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On July 19 2022 00:50 Elentos wrote: Maru wouldn't 2-base all-in Dark 3 games in a row (and get away with it) so I don't think this changed Dark's approach. Regarding the ghosts, I think it's probably something Maru found worked well in practice but didn't here. Although there really wasn't a reason for him to do that. Since he's the top of the world in TvT it should be on others to experiment and iterate to get one over on him, not the other way around. Although, coming back to his Ro4 opponent, being the best in the world at a matchup has never stopped Dark from putting himself behind with terrible roach strategies. I think the gap in TvT between Maru and the rest of Terran has been narrowed down, mainly the Viking/Raven lategame army composition. I have seen Dream, HM, Cure and Bunny played straight up against Maru with that and Maru barely came out on top at the end of the game. Maybe he want to come up with something that give him a better early and mid game that he can win rather than going through the grinding of lategame TvT every single time. And I have seen Maru demolished Dark with 2-base all-in in Valencia (game 6) when Dark did that double evol build. HM also beat Reynor and Serral with 2 base push a couple times when the Zerg doing greedy/early tech stuff. Terran can and must punish Zerg for the late Baneling Nest and bane speed upgrade, and that will forces Zerg to stop it and goes with a safer opening. | ||
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Slydie
1920 Posts
On July 19 2022 01:43 tigera6 wrote: I think the gap in TvT between Maru and the rest of Terran has been narrowed down, mainly the Viking/Raven lategame army composition. I have seen Dream, HM, Cure and Bunny played straight up against Maru with that and Maru barely came out on top at the end of the game. Maybe he want to come up with something that give him a better early and mid game that he can win rather than going through the grinding of lategame TvT every single time. And I have seen Maru demolished Dark with 2-base all-in in Valencia (game 6) when Dark did that double evol build. HM also beat Reynor and Serral with 2 base push a couple times when the Zerg doing greedy/early tech stuff. Terran can and must punish Zerg for the late Baneling Nest and bane speed upgrade, and that will forces Zerg to stop it and goes with a safer opening. Wouldn't it be possible for zerg to scout no 3rd CC and take precautions, even planning to go greedy initially? Of course Maru's control during the pushes played a huge part too, some of those splits+baneling targetfire micro was godly! | ||
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Lokol18
51 Posts
Regarding the ghosts, I think it's probably something Maru found worked well in practice but didn't here. Although there really wasn't a reason for him to do that. Since he's the top of the world in TvT it should be on others to experiment and iterate to get one over on him, not the other way around. Although, coming back to his Ro4 opponent, being the best in the world at a matchup has never stopped Dark from putting himself behind with terrible roach strategies. Who knows, maybe maru thinks TY will return to the game in not too long a time and is trying to shift the meta again to stay ahead of him | ||
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RKC
2848 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On July 19 2022 02:44 RKC wrote: Did DRG v Ragnarok even happen??? I don't think I saw any post about the match lol... What's to talk about? Ragnarok got rolled like he always does and the whole match took about as long as one of the Maru vs Bunny games. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On July 19 2022 02:44 RKC wrote: Did DRG v Ragnarok even happen??? I don't think I saw any post about the match lol... Recent ZvZ has been about 1 "random" Roach push, either you break and win, or you get defended, fell behind and die minutes later to the counter roach push. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On July 19 2022 02:28 Slydie wrote: Wouldn't it be possible for zerg to scout no 3rd CC and take precautions, even planning to go greedy initially? Of course Maru's control during the pushes played a huge part too, some of those splits+baneling targetfire micro was godly! I think its hard to scout the Terran main with the Viking out, and Zerg rarely research Overlord speed nowadays, so they dont know the exact timing of the 3rd CC and can only play preemptively rather than play reactively. | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On July 19 2022 15:53 tigera6 wrote: I think its hard to scout the Terran main with the Viking out, and Zerg rarely research Overlord speed nowadays, so they dont know the exact timing of the 3rd CC and can only play preemptively rather than play reactively. The viking itself is a tell that the Terran is hiding something and you need to investigate. In general it's not that hard to scout. There's no 3rd CC, there's extra production and more units, and the Terran is likely to be more conservative with the hellions to still have them for the all-in. These builds exclusively punish players who cut too many corners. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6931 Posts
On July 19 2022 00:50 Elentos wrote: Maru wouldn't 2-base all-in Dark 3 games in a row (and get away with it) so I don't think this changed Dark's approach. Regarding the ghosts, I think it's probably something Maru found worked well in practice but didn't here. Although there really wasn't a reason for him to do that. Since he's the top of the world in TvT it should be on others to experiment and iterate to get one over on him, not the other way around. Although, coming back to his Ro4 opponent, being the best in the world at a matchup has never stopped Dark from putting himself behind with terrible roach strategies. In my mind Maru is always the second best TvT player ^^' I mean since Inno and TY are gone he should be the best, but somehow I never have this feeling that his TvT is up there with his other matchups | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On July 19 2022 21:24 Harris1st wrote: In my mind Maru is always the second best TvT player ^^' I mean since Inno and TY are gone he should be the best, but somehow I never have this feeling that his TvT is up there with his other matchups Maru's TvT is probably his weakest matchup while it's TY's strongest by a huge margin. And at the end of the day they were pretty much even in h2h. I don't think anyone believes if Maru played standard he would lose to Bunny, but the mass raven/ghost transitions look like something he was genuinely trying to make work. It might help to have him play differently even if it doesn't work out anyway. You can't really improve by winning every match for like two years, you have to either face better people or handicap yourself. | ||
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