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On April 21 2022 22:13 Die4Ever wrote:
bo3 for ro6 is kinda lame
Is it bo3? The graphic last day said bo5
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Northern Ireland25342 Posts
PvZ gonna PvZ
Love to see Creator push through but I got the impression he played super well when nothing was expected and made it out, I fear we might see him revert to his usual form when it comes to being at the business end of the tournament.
I’m quite enjoying this format, albeit Bo5s for Ro4 feels off for me. Granted given the map pool maybe it’s better we don’t see things like Trap lose to a 12 pool because of scouting on Nautilus
Feels with the number of matches, split up across days and known opponents players have time to really prep for their matchups more efficiently.
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I guess Maru really set up the narrative that Toss is OP, and then in KoB3 he will march through the bracket full of Protoss (hopefully!). But Maru build was so off these day, mixing in weird shit that can be heavy counter no matter what. Like there is zero game where Maru went with the traditional Tank-Bio-Mine push into Zerg 4th base, it was either full greed (90+ workers) or full hidden tech, but neither really work out well.
As for the Ro6, Rogue should go to the Ro4 to meet Dark (assuming they dont let player from the same group meet again in the Ro4), and Trap could face Creator in the other match, then we have a PvZ final where Zerg, like every single other final, just smash the table and gave us another terrible grand final.
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herO failed us, no shame playing the weakest race though
User was temp banned for this post.
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France12886 Posts
Creator qualifying is truly awesome, so that kinda alleviates the pain of no Maru / no terran in the ro6.
herO failing to do so kinda demonstrates the limits of aligulac and especially online results
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Yeah I'm a bit confused on how the bracket works.
So I guess Ragnarok/DRG fight because they're 3rd seeds. Rogue and Creator fight and the winner goes to Ro4 and I'm guessing they will match them with the player that wasn't in their group.
Loser of Rogue/Creator goes to fight the winner of Ragnarok/DRG. So if Creator beats Ragnarok/DRG he can still get in the Top 4 I guess, yay!
Creator if he keeps playing like this should be able to win that and go to the Ro4 to face Trap (1st seed). And Rogue (2nd seed) should face Dark (1st seed).
Yeah, Creator getting 2nd seed might actually have been the play, as long as he can beat Ragnarok/DRG he will have an easier time vs Trap than Rogue probably.
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Maru just didnt play well. Game 3 vs DRG especially was just bad decision making. No T in the ro6 is pretty sad but it is what it is, just hoping for some good games the rest of the way.
Without getting into the specific nerfs and buffs of zerg over the last few years I think its obviously clear zerg has been the best race for nearly 5 years straight. So if you had the choice in modern sc2 and wanted to win if you pick anything but Zerg you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. (Somewhat similar i guess to how i feel about BW Terran but perhaps the BW tesagi isnt as bad as the zerg advantage in sc2)
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On April 21 2022 23:11 Moonerz wrote:
Maru just didnt play well. Game 3 vs DRG especially was just bad decision making. No T in the ro6 is pretty sad but it is what it is, just hoping for some good games the rest of the way.
Without getting into the specific nerfs and buffs of zerg over the last few years I think its obviously clear zerg has been the best race for nearly 5 years straight. So if you had the choice in modern sc2 and wanted to win if you pick anything but Zerg you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. (Somewhat similar i guess to how i feel about BW Terran but perhaps the BW tesagi isnt as bad as the zerg advantage in sc2)
Just because Maru wont a couple of great game with Mech in TvZ, hes drinking too much cool-aid from that, thinking its a good build. The simple fact is that, you cant build up the Mech army in early game quickly enough to stop a Roach-Ravager push with Swarmhost/Queen/Corruptor support. Every single time he tried to do that, and the Zerg scout out early enough, the game end after 3 more minutes with a Zerg push. Unless there is a patch to make Cyclone/Tank to be produced with a Reactor instead of Tech Lab, the same thing will happen over and over again.
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From 0/5 day 1 to 4/5 day 2. Atleast this group was consistent in its madness
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On April 21 2022 23:56 tigera6 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2022 23:11 Moonerz wrote:
Maru just didnt play well. Game 3 vs DRG especially was just bad decision making. No T in the ro6 is pretty sad but it is what it is, just hoping for some good games the rest of the way.
Without getting into the specific nerfs and buffs of zerg over the last few years I think its obviously clear zerg has been the best race for nearly 5 years straight. So if you had the choice in modern sc2 and wanted to win if you pick anything but Zerg you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. (Somewhat similar i guess to how i feel about BW Terran but perhaps the BW tesagi isnt as bad as the zerg advantage in sc2) Just because Maru wont a couple of great game with Mech in TvZ, hes drinking too much cool-aid from that, thinking its a good build. The simple fact is that, you cant build up the Mech army in early game quickly enough to stop a Roach-Ravager push with Swarmhost/Queen/Corruptor support. Every single time he tried to do that, and the Zerg scout out early enough, the game end after 3 more minutes with a Zerg push. Unless there is a patch to make Cyclone/Tank to be produced with a Reactor instead of Tech Lab, the same thing will happen over and over again.
I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his strats when in this tournament no other terran made it through and he is consistently the last terran standing. So either his strats or his mechanics are usually better than the other terrans'. And especially in gsl, this is the guy who has the deepest runs of any other player in the history of the game, period. Maybe he had two bad days, or maybe he's just not trying as hard, but I'm gonna be honest, I don't blame him if he doesn't train as hard anymore simply because you can't expect one person from your race to constantly be the one who has figure out how to beat the other races at the highest level. Assuming the game is perfectly balanced, maybe the other terran pros should step up too
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On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg.
Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed.
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On April 22 2022 00:18 Lokol18 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2022 23:56 tigera6 wrote:On April 21 2022 23:11 Moonerz wrote:
Maru just didnt play well. Game 3 vs DRG especially was just bad decision making. No T in the ro6 is pretty sad but it is what it is, just hoping for some good games the rest of the way.
Without getting into the specific nerfs and buffs of zerg over the last few years I think its obviously clear zerg has been the best race for nearly 5 years straight. So if you had the choice in modern sc2 and wanted to win if you pick anything but Zerg you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. (Somewhat similar i guess to how i feel about BW Terran but perhaps the BW tesagi isnt as bad as the zerg advantage in sc2) Just because Maru wont a couple of great game with Mech in TvZ, hes drinking too much cool-aid from that, thinking its a good build. The simple fact is that, you cant build up the Mech army in early game quickly enough to stop a Roach-Ravager push with Swarmhost/Queen/Corruptor support. Every single time he tried to do that, and the Zerg scout out early enough, the game end after 3 more minutes with a Zerg push. Unless there is a patch to make Cyclone/Tank to be produced with a Reactor instead of Tech Lab, the same thing will happen over and over again. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his strats when in this tournament no other terran made it through and he is consistently the last terran standing. So either his strats or his mechanics are usually better than the other terrans'. And especially in gsl, this is the guy who has the deepest runs of any other player in the history of the game, period. Maybe he had two bad days, or maybe he's just not trying as hard, but I'm gonna be honest, I don't blame him if he doesn't train as hard anymore simply because you can't expect one person from your race to constantly be the one who has figure out how to beat the other races at the highest level. Assuming the game is perfectly balanced, maybe the other terran pros should step up too
The standard I am judging Maru on is not other Terran in this tournament, but his own level in recent time periods. I do feel that Maru mechanics are indeed head and shoulder above the other Terrans, in term of the set up, macro, micro, the whole execution. The issue is, Maru in the last couple months, including the IEM, has not been relying on that, but rather trying something "fancy" or to cheese out his opponent, and it has hurt his winning much more than helps him. When you play for big tournament, you should want to have a solid opening strategy, combining with strong mechanics to get through the early game, and win it on your own prowress.
The best game I have seen Maru played was when he 4-3 Dark in ST1 of 2020 when Dark was the World Champ, where Maru was doing everything and everywhere on the map, thats how freaking insane it was. That was pure mechanics and a beauty to watch. Sadly somehow we dont get to see much of that from Maru these days, he switch to doing fancy stuff and slowly moving away from his agressive style even though it did serve him well before.
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On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed.
Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant.
Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month.
Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies.
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On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies.
They weren't broken enough to cause T over performance or even equal performance to the other two races. Ts did terrible on that patch. Maru was the only exception. Blizz jumped the gun on that nerf and never compensated Terran for it.
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Northern Ireland25342 Posts
On April 22 2022 08:24 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote:On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. They weren't broken enough to cause T over performance or even equal performance to the other two races. Ts did terrible on that patch. Maru was the only exception. Blizz jumped the gun on that nerf and never compensated Terran for it.
It was a good nerf.
Blizzard haven’t pulled the trigger quick enough on other nerfs, which is 100% true but I don’t think that means that nerf was wrong.
They were certainly way, way too slow to nerf BL/Infestor way back when, to take another comparable example.
Mass ravens killing everything wasn’t exactly great dynamic gameplay.
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On April 22 2022 08:42 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2022 08:24 JJH777 wrote:On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote:On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. They weren't broken enough to cause T over performance or even equal performance to the other two races. Ts did terrible on that patch. Maru was the only exception. Blizz jumped the gun on that nerf and never compensated Terran for it. It was a good nerf. Blizzard haven’t pulled the trigger quick enough on other nerfs, which is 100% true but I don’t think that means that nerf was wrong. They were certainly way, way too slow to nerf BL/Infestor way back when, to take another comparable example. Mass ravens killing everything wasn’t exactly great dynamic gameplay.
It may not have been interesting gameplay but that's not a good reason to nerf something in a game that is supposed to be a professional competition. You shouldn't nerf a race that is doing mediocre to outright bad in the biggest events without providing a compensating buff.
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On April 22 2022 08:45 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2022 08:42 WombaT wrote:On April 22 2022 08:24 JJH777 wrote:On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote:On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. They weren't broken enough to cause T over performance or even equal performance to the other two races. Ts did terrible on that patch. Maru was the only exception. Blizz jumped the gun on that nerf and never compensated Terran for it. It was a good nerf. Blizzard haven’t pulled the trigger quick enough on other nerfs, which is 100% true but I don’t think that means that nerf was wrong. They were certainly way, way too slow to nerf BL/Infestor way back when, to take another comparable example. Mass ravens killing everything wasn’t exactly great dynamic gameplay. It may not have been interesting gameplay but that's not a good reason to nerf something in a game that is supposed to be a professional competition. You shouldn't nerf a race that is doing mediocre to outright bad in the biggest events without providing a compensating buff.
Certain unfun interactions should be nerfed even if they are not too strong imo, not to say terran couldn't have gotten something in return tho.
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On April 22 2022 08:45 JJH777 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2022 08:42 WombaT wrote:On April 22 2022 08:24 JJH777 wrote:On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote:On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. They weren't broken enough to cause T over performance or even equal performance to the other two races. Ts did terrible on that patch. Maru was the only exception. Blizz jumped the gun on that nerf and never compensated Terran for it. It was a good nerf. Blizzard haven’t pulled the trigger quick enough on other nerfs, which is 100% true but I don’t think that means that nerf was wrong. They were certainly way, way too slow to nerf BL/Infestor way back when, to take another comparable example. Mass ravens killing everything wasn’t exactly great dynamic gameplay. It may not have been interesting gameplay but that's not a good reason to nerf something in a game that is supposed to be a professional competition. You shouldn't nerf a race that is doing mediocre to outright bad in the biggest events without providing a compensating buff.
they buffed Viking HP by 10 with the raven nerf
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On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies.
Even in this so called 'OP nuke era' I remember at least 2 lategames where Zerg beat it (Scarlett - Maru and Inno - Serral at WESG) and not many more where Terran won in that scenario. So no, Terran dominating TvZ lategame with nukes was never a thing
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On April 22 2022 19:35 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote:On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote:On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote:
Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. Even in this so called 'OP nuke era' I remember at least 2 lategames where Zerg beat it (Scarlett - Maru and Inno - Serral at WESG) and not many more where Terran won in that scenario. So no, Terran dominating TvZ lategame with nukes was never a thing
It wouldn't be the first time that you don't remember something, to be honest.
Why is this so important, in any of case?
There was a period in which Zerg struggled against nukes, it didn't last much and it wasn't a matter of balance.
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EPT
