EPT
GSL Code S
Global StarCraft II League/2022/Season 1Streams & Casters
Format
- Group Stage 1:
- Dual Tournament Format.
- All matches are Bo3.
- Top 2 players of each group advance to the Group Stage 2.
Map Pool
Group B
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2627.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1850.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2838.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/682.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4729.jpg)
Results
CSS: FO-nTTaX
Awesomeness: Panda
Banner: GSL
[GSL 2022] Code S - Ro10 Group B - Day 2
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51484 Posts
Map Pool CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
I think there's still a chance Maru gets first if DRG beats Dark. If the rest of the matches played out as they should (Maru>DRG, Maru > herO, herO > Creator, Dark > Creator) then everyone will be 2-2 and Maru can win on map score. It's super unlikely but it's insane it could still happen. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
Creator is almost through but he has some difficult matches left | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1107 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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buzz_bender
445 Posts
It just feels to me that he's experimenting with ridiculous builds, but why do it in GSL?? I don't get it. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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yoshi245
United States2969 Posts
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:06 swarminfestor wrote: Why Maru build fourth base closer to DRG's bases? Normally it'd be a good idea because if you expand towards the Zerg it makes your attack distance shorter to the Zerg which as Mech is what you want. Unfortunately, DRG had a good Swarm Host count before Maru was firmly established at that position so it was impossible to build up the defenses he'd need there while Swarm Hosts were pummeling it. | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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tigera6
3397 Posts
Maru giving up on the traditional Bio-Tank-Mines push is just sad to watch. Oh well, he is bound to have shitty GSL season every year anyway, lets hope he can come back strong next season. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:09 Die4Ever wrote: RIP terran, but I think we all knew that most recent patch wasn't going to fix any of the problems with TvZ I mean Maru is the only consistently legit top Terran out there. He hasn't played particularly well this tournament and has had some tough breaks. So it's not a surprise that when he does poorly, Terran in general does poorly. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:09 Die4Ever wrote: RIP terran, but I think we all knew that most recent patch wasn't going to fix any of the problems with TvZ The current terran problems with TvZ are solely the maps imo | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
Just add it to the list of Zerg dominated tournaments of the last 5 years. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2449 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:13 Vindicare605 wrote: Wish I could say that I trusted Trap or Creator to free us from more Zerg domination, but I don't at all. not even close. Just add it to the list of Zerg dominated tournaments of the last 5 years. Let hope that besides Trap and Creator, herO will make magical run winning his first Code S title. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:16 darklycid wrote: Yeah classic problem, the vZ is problematic for some reason and then tvp swung more towards toss this time which leads to terran underperforming this time (recently tvp swung more often towards terran which led to the tournaments last year with worse toss performance). What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote: What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. The thing is, the nerfs weren't that huge. Ravagers and banelings are still untouched, for example, but they kill literally everything on the ground (outside of ZvZ ) | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:20 Durnuu wrote: The thing is, the nerfs weren't that huge. Ravagers and banelings are still untouched, for example, but they kill literally everything on the ground (outside of ZvZ )Banelings got some nerfs. | ||
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote: What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. Some of us are but there are people like XainOn arguing that zerg was perfectly fine in 2018 even though they started being the strongest race around 2017 and the hydra buff. 2019 reached epic proportions similar to 2012 broodlord infestor and then it was toned down a bit and the mappool / game being figured out favoring zerg overall was the main culprit instead of pure balance. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:19 Vindicare605 wrote: What kills me though, is that we had 2018-2019 and then Zerg got nerfed like 10x since then and they're STILL winning everything. So let me just ask the general audience. Why would ANYONE consider a title won during those 2 years legitimate if we know NOW that Zerg has received nothing but nerf after nerf from those power levels and are still dominating? We shouldn't right? Not enough people are calling out just how fucking broken Zerg obviously was in 2018 and 2019. I wonder why? It's probably because there were some players there that took advantage of those periods that people don't want to put asterisks next to. You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
That isn't true though. We've had the Infestor completely reworked. Queens nerfed like 5-6 times, creep nerfed like 3-4x Broodlords nerfed severely. Just about the only things that WEREN'T touched were the Hydralisk, Lurker, Baneling, Ravager and curiously the Viper. The Viper hasn't been touched in years interestingly even though it still remains a stupidly powerful unit. Zerg has had some pretty severe nerfs over the last 4 years and yet still they dominate consistently. | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote: That isn't true though. We've had the Infestor completely reworked. Queens nerfed like 5-6 times, creep nerfed like 3-4x Broodlords nerfed severely. Just about the only things that WEREN'T touched were the Hydralisk, Lurker, Baneling, Ravager and curiously the Viper. The Viper hasn't been touched in years interestingly even though it still remains a stupidly powerful unit. Zerg has had some pretty severe nerfs over the last 4 years and yet still they dominate consistently. I think we just disagree on the definition of "severity" of these nerfs. They weren't that huge compared to the massive zerg dominance we had, in my opinion. Only one that was truly significant was the infestor rework, but it only allowed the other broken zerg units to shine instead | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
Also, if I'm not mistaken, we could have a 3-way tie between herO, Maru and Dark if all the matches go 2-1 (with herO and Dark losing each one) | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:51 Vindicare605 wrote: I am seriously going to laugh my ass off if it's Creator of all people that breaks Protoss' Code S drought. Winning in an era of Zerg imbalance, 2012 vibes | ||
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:51 Durnuu wrote: Looks like Maru lives to see another day. Also, if I'm not mistaken, we could have a 3-way tie between herO, Maru and Dark if all the matches go 2-1 (with herO and Dark losing each one) Dark isn't losing stop being silly. Maru is out. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote: You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Rain of nukes, what? In which world has this ever been an issue, or are you just referencing the series where Inno broke Serrals winstreak and think it must've been because of balance? Because I don't remember a period where Terran was dominating TvZ lategame on the back of mass nukes at all. Also the prism thing happened only in 1 Super Tournament and probably would've been figured out quickly if Blizzard didn't immediately nerf it for them. I agree with you that Zerg was still fine in 2018 but what you just wrote is just incredibly false | ||
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SamirDuran
Philippines894 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:41 Vindicare605 wrote: That isn't true though. We've had the Infestor completely reworked. Queens nerfed like 5-6 times, creep nerfed like 3-4x Broodlords nerfed severely. Just about the only things that WEREN'T touched were the Hydralisk, Lurker, Baneling, Ravager and curiously the Viper. The Viper hasn't been touched in years interestingly even though it still remains a stupidly powerful unit. Zerg has had some pretty severe nerfs over the last 4 years and yet still they dominate consistently. The Infestor rework was coupled with a huge Lurker buff though. I don't think Creep was nerfed except that they can't be cancelled anymore? | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:56 Charoisaur wrote: The Infestor rework was coupled with a huge Lurker buff though. I don't think Creep was nerfed except that they can't be cancelled anymore? Doesnt it receed faster now? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:56 Charoisaur wrote: The Infestor rework was coupled with a huge Lurker buff though. I don't think Creep was nerfed except that they can't be cancelled anymore? It's spread rate has been nerfed at least 2 times since 2018. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
Didn't they do that change already with LotV release or have they nerfed it again? | ||
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Luolis
Finland7104 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:52 Charoisaur wrote: Rain of nukes, what? In which world has this ever been an issue, or are you just referencing the series where Inno broke Serrals winstreak and think it must've been because of balance? Because I don't remember a period where Terran was dominating TvZ lategame on the back of mass nukes at all. Also the prism thing happened only in 1 Super Tournament and probably would've been figured out quickly if Blizzard didn't immediately nerf it for them. I agree with you that Zerg was still fine in 2018 but what you just wrote is just incredibly false Prism needed a nerf, while Zerg was evidently too strong in lategame PvZ; they didn't give Protoss anything in return and we had BL Infestor 2.0. You also don't remember Inno and Maru saying before WESG that TvZ was Terran favored in the lategame? It happened at the start of 2019. Incredibly false? More like these problems didn't last long whereas they took ages to fix the issues favoring Zerg(from 2019 onwards) and, even worse, they messed it up again when balance looked fine in 2020. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:51 Vindicare605 wrote: I am seriously going to laugh my ass off if it's Creator of all people that breaks Protoss' Code S drought. He's the prince that was promise | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 21 2022 20:01 Xain0n wrote: Prism needed a nerf, while Zerg was evidently too strong in lategame PvZ; they didn't give Protoss anything in return and we had BL Infestor 2.0. You also don't remember Inno and Maru saying before WESG that TvZ was Terran favored in the lategame? It happened at the start of 2019. Incredibly false? More like these problems didn't last long whereas they took ages to fix the issues favoring Zerg(from 2019 onwards) and, even worse, they messed it up again when balance looked fine in 2020. Players saying something is imbalanced has no meaning if we don't see the 'imbalance' in tournaments at all. It could just be a tactic to intimidate the opponents for all we know. Also, just pretending you are correct, it was clearly a L2P issue and not a balance issue, seeing as nukes have never been nerfed | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Vindicare605
United States16071 Posts
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
If Creator seriously gets out in 1st place... holy shit he's in the Ro4!!! He'll have to fight Rogue though... if Rogue got out 1st and Trap got 2nd then I think Creator would face Trap instead? I could see him having a chance vs Trap and getting to GFs vs the winner of Rogue/Dark/herO. But now he'll have to beat Rogue/Ragnarok in Ro4, then fight Trap/Dark/herO in Grands. As much as I'd love to see Creator win a GSL, I'd like to see Rogue pick up more championships and continue his dominance too. I'd rather Creator win the season he's doing really well in though, and hope Rogue wins 1-2 more times this year. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1107 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1107 Posts
On April 21 2022 20:50 Pandain wrote: What is Maru even doing this game - why no libs? hero has a billion stalkers | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Yeah and Maru had a much bigger bio ball to deal with them if they try to blink | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
Can't even blame mules, Maru has had only 1 OC for the past 10 minutes | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1107 Posts
On April 21 2022 20:55 Pandain wrote: Yeah and Maru had a much bigger bio ball to deal with them if they try to blink with that many disruptors? just send in disruptor balls to make the bio move back, blink in, dead libs, rinse. making libs is a losing move and that's why nobody makes them | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25319 Posts
Different metas and Zerg figured stuff out, not everything that is good in a 2022’s Zerg arsenal was part of their 2017/18 locker. Plus other races had different metas themselves, maps were different. If a race is still too strong after nerfs, it doesn’t necessarily follow that they were totally broken before those nerfs. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25319 Posts
On April 21 2022 20:49 darklycid wrote: I don't know what to think about marus play right now. It’s equal parts baffling decisions and ridiculous feats of micro Even more so than usual he seems to be playing absolutely on the razor’s edge | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On April 21 2022 20:58 SHODAN wrote: with that many disruptors? just send in disruptor balls to make the bio move back, blink in, dead libs, rinse. making libs is a losing move and that's why nobody makes them This is a huge overexaggeration and there is micro potential on both sides. HM has amongst the best TvP in the world and at least some months ago when I was regularly watching him he was regularly making libs in the mid-late game. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
edit: except herO throws away his oracles now | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1107 Posts
On April 21 2022 21:12 Pandain wrote: This is a huge overexaggeration and there is micro potential on both sides. HM has amongst the best TvP in the world and at least some months ago when I was regularly watching him he was regularly making libs in the mid-late game. where is the liberator's micro potential? | ||
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
Seige, unseige, manuever army, set up in good positions. And I'm not talking about only the lib it's the whole comp. Source: like a thousand tvps | ||
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1107 Posts
On April 21 2022 21:19 Pandain wrote: Seige, unseige, manuever army, set up in good positions. And I'm not talking about only the lib it's the whole comp. Source: like a thousand tvps liberators don't unsiege fast enough to avoid the maneuver I mentioned earlier. you need a lot of bio to deal with these heavy gateway / disruptor armies and libs are a big investment. they eat into your resources and supply too much. I think that's why terrans didn't make them this season of GSL | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 21 2022 21:29 SHODAN wrote: liberators don't unsiege fast enough to avoid the maneuver I mentioned earlier. you need a lot of bio to deal with these heavy gateway / disruptor armies and libs are a big investment. they eat into your resources and supply too much. I think that's why terrans didn't make them this season of GSL I think eventually you want them but it's hard to afford them because first you need 2 starports, fusion core, range upgrade, enough Vikings to deal with the Collossi and a sufficient medivac count and ideally +2 air attack and THEN eventually you can go into Libs. But if you can get to them they are good. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Maru had no chance with his current level of play, I am actually quite pissed he beat herO of all people to deny him the spot he deserved. Lets just hope Creator can take first place so he does not have to go up against Rogue it would be a trashing. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1107 Posts
On April 21 2022 21:39 Charoisaur wrote: I think eventually you want them but it's hard to afford them because first you need 2 starports, fusion core, range upgrades, enough Vikings to deal with the Collossi and a sufficient medivac count and ideally +2 air attack and THEN eventually you can go into Libs. yep. you want 3/3 and a healthy ghost count before thinking about libs, and enough orbitals to start cutting SCVs. often by that phase of the game, P already has made the air transition and you don't have a reason to make libs anymore | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 21 2022 21:46 SHODAN wrote: yep. you want 3/3 and a healthy ghost count before thinking about libs, and enough orbitals to start cutting SCVs. often by that phase of the game, P already has made the air transition and you don't have a reason to make libs anymore Well, I think vs air they are mandatory because they zone out the HTs / Disruptors, otherwise you can never fight the Carriers | ||
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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darklycid
3510 Posts
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
Rogue going to be a tough next match for Creator but hopefully he can take out Ragnarok/DRG instead | ||
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nojok
France15845 Posts
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Die4Ever
United States17676 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
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Pandain
United States12989 Posts
On April 21 2022 22:13 Die4Ever wrote: bo3 for ro6 is kinda lame Is it bo3? The graphic last day said bo5 | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25319 Posts
Love to see Creator push through but I got the impression he played super well when nothing was expected and made it out, I fear we might see him revert to his usual form when it comes to being at the business end of the tournament. I’m quite enjoying this format, albeit Bo5s for Ro4 feels off for me. Granted given the map pool maybe it’s better we don’t see things like Trap lose to a 12 pool because of scouting on Nautilus Feels with the number of matches, split up across days and known opponents players have time to really prep for their matchups more efficiently. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
As for the Ro6, Rogue should go to the Ro4 to meet Dark (assuming they dont let player from the same group meet again in the Ro4), and Trap could face Creator in the other match, then we have a PvZ final where Zerg, like every single other final, just smash the table and gave us another terrible grand final. | ||
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TossHeroes
281 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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Poopi
France12880 Posts
herO failing to do so kinda demonstrates the limits of aligulac and especially online results | ||
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Yoshi Kirishima
United States10343 Posts
So I guess Ragnarok/DRG fight because they're 3rd seeds. Rogue and Creator fight and the winner goes to Ro4 and I'm guessing they will match them with the player that wasn't in their group. Loser of Rogue/Creator goes to fight the winner of Ragnarok/DRG. So if Creator beats Ragnarok/DRG he can still get in the Top 4 I guess, yay! Creator if he keeps playing like this should be able to win that and go to the Ro4 to face Trap (1st seed). And Rogue (2nd seed) should face Dark (1st seed). Yeah, Creator getting 2nd seed might actually have been the play, as long as he can beat Ragnarok/DRG he will have an easier time vs Trap than Rogue probably. | ||
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Moonerz
United States445 Posts
Without getting into the specific nerfs and buffs of zerg over the last few years I think its obviously clear zerg has been the best race for nearly 5 years straight. So if you had the choice in modern sc2 and wanted to win if you pick anything but Zerg you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. (Somewhat similar i guess to how i feel about BW Terran but perhaps the BW tesagi isnt as bad as the zerg advantage in sc2) | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On April 21 2022 23:11 Moonerz wrote: Maru just didnt play well. Game 3 vs DRG especially was just bad decision making. No T in the ro6 is pretty sad but it is what it is, just hoping for some good games the rest of the way. Without getting into the specific nerfs and buffs of zerg over the last few years I think its obviously clear zerg has been the best race for nearly 5 years straight. So if you had the choice in modern sc2 and wanted to win if you pick anything but Zerg you are putting yourself at a disadvantage. (Somewhat similar i guess to how i feel about BW Terran but perhaps the BW tesagi isnt as bad as the zerg advantage in sc2) Just because Maru wont a couple of great game with Mech in TvZ, hes drinking too much cool-aid from that, thinking its a good build. The simple fact is that, you cant build up the Mech army in early game quickly enough to stop a Roach-Ravager push with Swarmhost/Queen/Corruptor support. Every single time he tried to do that, and the Zerg scout out early enough, the game end after 3 more minutes with a Zerg push. Unless there is a patch to make Cyclone/Tank to be produced with a Reactor instead of Tech Lab, the same thing will happen over and over again. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
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Lokol18
51 Posts
On April 21 2022 23:56 tigera6 wrote: Just because Maru wont a couple of great game with Mech in TvZ, hes drinking too much cool-aid from that, thinking its a good build. The simple fact is that, you cant build up the Mech army in early game quickly enough to stop a Roach-Ravager push with Swarmhost/Queen/Corruptor support. Every single time he tried to do that, and the Zerg scout out early enough, the game end after 3 more minutes with a Zerg push. Unless there is a patch to make Cyclone/Tank to be produced with a Reactor instead of Tech Lab, the same thing will happen over and over again. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his strats when in this tournament no other terran made it through and he is consistently the last terran standing. So either his strats or his mechanics are usually better than the other terrans'. And especially in gsl, this is the guy who has the deepest runs of any other player in the history of the game, period. Maybe he had two bad days, or maybe he's just not trying as hard, but I'm gonna be honest, I don't blame him if he doesn't train as hard anymore simply because you can't expect one person from your race to constantly be the one who has figure out how to beat the other races at the highest level. Assuming the game is perfectly balanced, maybe the other terran pros should step up too | ||
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JJH777
United States4407 Posts
On April 21 2022 19:33 Xain0n wrote: You forget that there have been times in which Zerg could barely go past minute 8 because of Prisms or that TvZ looked nearly impossibile for Zerg in the lategame at least twice(broken Raven first then the rain of nukes)? I'd suggest to keep this overdramatic tone for your next piace, it would be more appropriate in a theater. As Charoisaur is saying, these maps favor Zerg. Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. | ||
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tigera6
3397 Posts
On April 22 2022 00:18 Lokol18 wrote: I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss his strats when in this tournament no other terran made it through and he is consistently the last terran standing. So either his strats or his mechanics are usually better than the other terrans'. And especially in gsl, this is the guy who has the deepest runs of any other player in the history of the game, period. Maybe he had two bad days, or maybe he's just not trying as hard, but I'm gonna be honest, I don't blame him if he doesn't train as hard anymore simply because you can't expect one person from your race to constantly be the one who has figure out how to beat the other races at the highest level. Assuming the game is perfectly balanced, maybe the other terran pros should step up too The standard I am judging Maru on is not other Terran in this tournament, but his own level in recent time periods. I do feel that Maru mechanics are indeed head and shoulder above the other Terrans, in term of the set up, macro, micro, the whole execution. The issue is, Maru in the last couple months, including the IEM, has not been relying on that, but rather trying something "fancy" or to cheese out his opponent, and it has hurt his winning much more than helps him. When you play for big tournament, you should want to have a solid opening strategy, combining with strong mechanics to get through the early game, and win it on your own prowress. The best game I have seen Maru played was when he 4-3 Dark in ST1 of 2020 when Dark was the World Champ, where Maru was doing everything and everywhere on the map, thats how freaking insane it was. That was pure mechanics and a beauty to watch. Sadly somehow we dont get to see much of that from Maru these days, he switch to doing fancy stuff and slowly moving away from his agressive style even though it did serve him well before. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 22 2022 00:49 JJH777 wrote: Correction: Serral couldn't beat "broken" ravens. Dark and Rogue both beat Maru on the patch with "OP" ravens. Terran also did shit all around on that patch. Nukes were never broken and have never been nerfed. Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. | ||
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JJH777
United States4407 Posts
On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote: Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. They weren't broken enough to cause T over performance or even equal performance to the other two races. Ts did terrible on that patch. Maru was the only exception. Blizz jumped the gun on that nerf and never compensated Terran for it. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland25319 Posts
On April 22 2022 08:24 JJH777 wrote: They weren't broken enough to cause T over performance or even equal performance to the other two races. Ts did terrible on that patch. Maru was the only exception. Blizz jumped the gun on that nerf and never compensated Terran for it. It was a good nerf. Blizzard haven’t pulled the trigger quick enough on other nerfs, which is 100% true but I don’t think that means that nerf was wrong. They were certainly way, way too slow to nerf BL/Infestor way back when, to take another comparable example. Mass ravens killing everything wasn’t exactly great dynamic gameplay. | ||
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JJH777
United States4407 Posts
On April 22 2022 08:42 WombaT wrote: It was a good nerf. Blizzard haven’t pulled the trigger quick enough on other nerfs, which is 100% true but I don’t think that means that nerf was wrong. They were certainly way, way too slow to nerf BL/Infestor way back when, to take another comparable example. Mass ravens killing everything wasn’t exactly great dynamic gameplay. It may not have been interesting gameplay but that's not a good reason to nerf something in a game that is supposed to be a professional competition. You shouldn't nerf a race that is doing mediocre to outright bad in the biggest events without providing a compensating buff. | ||
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darklycid
3510 Posts
On April 22 2022 08:45 JJH777 wrote: It may not have been interesting gameplay but that's not a good reason to nerf something in a game that is supposed to be a professional competition. You shouldn't nerf a race that is doing mediocre to outright bad in the biggest events without providing a compensating buff. Certain unfun interactions should be nerfed even if they are not too strong imo, not to say terran couldn't have gotten something in return tho. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 22 2022 08:45 JJH777 wrote: It may not have been interesting gameplay but that's not a good reason to nerf something in a game that is supposed to be a professional competition. You shouldn't nerf a race that is doing mediocre to outright bad in the biggest events without providing a compensating buff. they buffed Viking HP by 10 with the raven nerf | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 22 2022 07:49 Xain0n wrote: Ravens were too strong and were nerfed, how strong Serral was at the time is irrelevant. Nukes weren't broken and I haven't said they were, still Zerg couldn't find a reliable answer for that lategame scenario for at least one month. Both was meant to answer to Vindicare's preposterous idea for which Zerg must have been immensely op years ago since they were nerfed multiple times, forgetting not only that the other races were nerfed as well but that problematic matchups and metas existed because of maps or (temporary) inability to find solutions to certain strategies. Even in this so called 'OP nuke era' I remember at least 2 lategames where Zerg beat it (Scarlett - Maru and Inno - Serral at WESG) and not many more where Terran won in that scenario. So no, Terran dominating TvZ lategame with nukes was never a thing | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 22 2022 19:35 Charoisaur wrote: Even in this so called 'OP nuke era' I remember at least 2 lategames where Zerg beat it (Scarlett - Maru and Inno - Serral at WESG) and not many more where Terran won in that scenario. So no, Terran dominating TvZ lategame with nukes was never a thing It wouldn't be the first time that you don't remember something, to be honest. Why is this so important, in any of case? There was a period in which Zerg struggled against nukes, it didn't last much and it wasn't a matter of balance. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15958 Posts
On April 22 2022 22:38 Xain0n wrote: It wouldn't be the first time that you don't remember something, to be honest. Why is this so important, in any of case? There was a period in which Zerg struggled against nukes, it didn't last much and it wasn't a matter of balance. Well, if you say untrue things, you will get called out. You said there was a period where lategame ZvT 'looked nearly impossible because of nukes' which is simply false as the winrate of terran in that scenario wasn't even that high. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 23 2022 01:34 Charoisaur wrote: Well, if you say untrue things, you will get called out. You said there was a period where lategame ZvT 'looked nearly impossible because of nukes' which is simply false as the winrate of terran in that scenario wasn't even that high. I should have expressed myself better in my first message, it looked like Raven and Nukes were just as strong which was not the case. However, you objected with an even more false statement about nukes never being dominant in lategame TvZ. Let's just say both were extreme takes and call it even, especially since this was not the point I originally meant to discuss. | ||
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On April 22 2022 08:45 JJH777 wrote: It may not have been interesting gameplay but that's not a good reason to nerf something in a game that is supposed to be a professional competition. You shouldn't nerf a race that is doing mediocre to outright bad in the biggest events without providing a compensating buff. Wish Team 5 knew this... | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24202 Posts
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