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Bisutopia19300 Posts
On March 25 2022 21:05 Luolis wrote:
Lol ghosts are finally atleast a bit viable elsewhere than just TvP lategame and people are calling it OP and yelling for a nerf. :D I wouldnt mind removing the EMP radius buff upgrade but any other change would be complete overkill.
I'd prefer a slight modification to templar feedback where the feedback radius is increased by 1 or 2. You would still have to target a unit, but it will affect those clumped very closely nearby. This would make viper interactions more interesting in PvZ too.
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WOW, impressive g3 of zest vs ryung!
funny how everything is a throw for some casual gamers :D
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On March 26 2022 00:19 DarkGamer wrote:
WOW, impressive g3 of zest vs ryung!
funny how everything is a throw for some casual gamers :D
It was impressive from Ryung, he showed a ton of heart, brains and execution to cling on and take that win.
And, more than most I enjoy clown fiestas or weird games, they give something a bit different than stellar standard play all the time. So a very enjoyable thing from that perspective.
That said it’s really not a backseat gamer thing to say Zest threw that, incredibly hard.
With some credit to Zest his transition out of his cannon rush, and gauging quite how greedy he could be was 100% on the money tactical, to such a degree that game should have been impossible to lose.
He had the bank and income to throw Zealots or warp them in to pin Ryung even further back, or even cut into his production if he found a hole. Buy time to make an unkillable army.
Instead Ryung killed nearly his whole army, which was clearly missing certain components, multiple times somehow.
He had Ryung absolutely on the ropes to the extent he never got more than a few Vikings, never mind a good lib transition out. He dumped tons of gas into archons that evaporated almost instantly instead of even a handful of disruptors. Vs Ryung’s composition that can only take out the Toss if the bio/ghost can close the gap and get under it.
This didn’t even happen just once either! He didn’t try to sit back and backstab Ryung to death with his huge eco advantage, which hell you see Protoss manage even one or two bases ahead, and the alternate approach of having a superior main army that Ryung couldn’t engage he also botched.
Yeah it was fun and I enjoyed seeing an old hand in Ryung pull it through but Jesus some of Zest’s calls that game were beyond bad
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On March 26 2022 01:10 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2022 00:19 DarkGamer wrote:
WOW, impressive g3 of zest vs ryung!
funny how everything is a throw for some casual gamers :D It was impressive from Ryung, he showed a ton of heart, brains and execution to cling on and take that win. And, more than most I enjoy clown fiestas or weird games, they give something a bit different than stellar standard play all the time. So a very enjoyable thing from that perspective. That said it’s really not a backseat gamer thing to say Zest threw that, incredibly hard. With some credit to Zest his transition out of his cannon rush, and gauging quite how greedy he could be was 100% on the money tactical, to such a degree that game should have been impossible to lose. He had the bank and income to throw Zealots or warp them in to pin Ryung even further back, or even cut into his production if he found a hole. Buy time to make an unkillable army. Instead Ryung killed nearly his whole army, which was clearly missing certain components, multiple times somehow. He had Ryung absolutely on the ropes to the extent he never got more than a few Vikings, never mind a good lib transition out. He dumped tons of gas into archons that evaporated almost instantly instead of even a handful of disruptors. Vs Ryung’s composition that can only take out the Toss if the bio/ghost can close the gap and get under it. This didn’t even happen just once either! He didn’t try to sit back and backstab Ryung to death with his huge eco advantage, which hell you see Protoss manage even one or two bases ahead, and the alternate approach of having a superior main army that Ryung couldn’t engage he also botched. Yeah it was fun and I enjoyed seeing an old hand in Ryung pull it through but Jesus some of Zest’s calls that game were beyond bad
Ryung had incredible heart and fortitude to even believe he could pull the comeback, but I have to agree, Zest's decision making and army composition were abysmal, even hard to understand sometimes.
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There are games where both sides play extremely well, without obvious mistakes, throws, or stupid decisions. Just look at Maru v. Ryung game 2.
Ryung v. Zest game 3 was not one of those games.
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On March 26 2022 01:25 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On March 26 2022 01:10 WombaT wrote:On March 26 2022 00:19 DarkGamer wrote:
WOW, impressive g3 of zest vs ryung!
funny how everything is a throw for some casual gamers :D It was impressive from Ryung, he showed a ton of heart, brains and execution to cling on and take that win. And, more than most I enjoy clown fiestas or weird games, they give something a bit different than stellar standard play all the time. So a very enjoyable thing from that perspective. That said it’s really not a backseat gamer thing to say Zest threw that, incredibly hard. With some credit to Zest his transition out of his cannon rush, and gauging quite how greedy he could be was 100% on the money tactical, to such a degree that game should have been impossible to lose. He had the bank and income to throw Zealots or warp them in to pin Ryung even further back, or even cut into his production if he found a hole. Buy time to make an unkillable army. Instead Ryung killed nearly his whole army, which was clearly missing certain components, multiple times somehow. He had Ryung absolutely on the ropes to the extent he never got more than a few Vikings, never mind a good lib transition out. He dumped tons of gas into archons that evaporated almost instantly instead of even a handful of disruptors. Vs Ryung’s composition that can only take out the Toss if the bio/ghost can close the gap and get under it. This didn’t even happen just once either! He didn’t try to sit back and backstab Ryung to death with his huge eco advantage, which hell you see Protoss manage even one or two bases ahead, and the alternate approach of having a superior main army that Ryung couldn’t engage he also botched. Yeah it was fun and I enjoyed seeing an old hand in Ryung pull it through but Jesus some of Zest’s calls that game were beyond bad Ryung had incredible heart and fortitude to even believe he could pull the comeback, but I have to agree, Zest's decision making and army composition were abysmal, even hard to understand sometimes.
I dunno about you but I 100% play my best Starcraft when I know I’m dead, basically focuses the mind. No pressure, APM shoots up as I’m not like thinking about things to do. Oh well I’m dead may as well micro my fucking arse off, not much macro left to worry about!
I think Ryung was in that state, basically. He must have known he shouldn’t have won that game so it was a ‘free hit’ as we say over here.
I think I’ve won a few ladder games at a considerably, considerably lower level than this, out of hundreds when my brain tells me I’ve lost so may as well just stay and focus on my micro or w/e. The ones I have are probably the best I’ve ever played, and the most fun.
But yeah just baffling. If you don’t zone the Terran in any way they’ll just swamp you, and carpet your entire army with EMPs. Even 2-3 disruptors keeps Ryung at arms length. Makes it a ton harder.
Zest at least twice had 4-6 archons that legit disappeared almost instantly. Ryung still barely won multiple engagements despite wiping almost the entire army’s shield.
What purpose do archons fit in a composition that can’t zone ghosts out? Ridiculous.
I like Zest and think some of his plays are smarter than he’s given credit for. And I think ‘Zest macro’ is often a case of his galaxy brain prioritising the right things at the right times, a level us mere mortals looking to spend our money don’t always get. His gatewayman styles frequently make for ugly and sloppy games but the tactics and strategy are solid. Just keep flooding Terrans with gateway units, and either find a gap or if you don’t keep resetting their ability to tech
That game though man, fucking hell
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It sounds silly but you really rarely see players set up engagements as thoughtfully as Ryung especially in TvP. He's constantly trying to surround the Protoss player with hidden flanking maneuvers or getting the Protoss to overextend into a position where he already has a flank set up. People always say that Protoss is supposed to be the "strategic" race but he really makes it look like the opposite. His positioning of everything is so good.
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France12906 Posts
On March 26 2022 03:39 honorablemacroterran wrote:
It sounds silly but you really rarely see players set up engagements as thoughtfully as Ryung especially in TvP. He's constantly trying to surround the Protoss player with hidden flanking maneuvers or getting the Protoss to overextend into a position where he already has a flank set up. People always say that Protoss is supposed to be the "strategic" race but he really makes it look like the opposite. His positioning of everything is so good.
Yeah, I am pretty sure Zest would have killed a lot of terrans with his attacks. Like I would only see Cure, Maru and Ryung pull such engagements in TvP in Korea as consistently. The match-up allows non mechanical gods to shine and Ryung is the kind of guy to far better in the more "strategic" match-ups such as TvT and TvP. However, he has really improved in form over the last few months, he was clearly a level behind like one year ago, and we might have totally discovered his form in this Code S if not for Armani declining his Katowice spot.
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Northern Ireland26224 Posts
On March 26 2022 03:39 honorablemacroterran wrote:
It sounds silly but you really rarely see players set up engagements as thoughtfully as Ryung especially in TvP. He's constantly trying to surround the Protoss player with hidden flanking maneuvers or getting the Protoss to overextend into a position where he already has a flank set up. People always say that Protoss is supposed to be the "strategic" race but he really makes it look like the opposite. His positioning of everything is so good.
Easy to do when you don’t really have to think about your composition all that much :p
Fantastic tactical moves, yes. Besides getting some really strong flanks in, what Ryung really, really impressed me with how he almost never committed units to positions he couldn’t do damage, and lost almost nothing by overextending
When people say Protoss is the ‘strategic race’ what they mean is you trick your opponent by tech switching and fakery, or a new optimised build that does something, or your big picture planning is better.
Well, I’m pretty sure that’s what everyone means.
Ryung’ s tactical play is very good, which is why he’s good at TvT too.
Protoss players, while it helps don’t win games by their positioning or stellar tactical play. They don’t roam around the map until they have a good angle, it’s about plans, compositions and tricking opponents into making bad compositions, hence why they’re the ‘strategic race ‘
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i noticed that GSL is never ever in upcoming events, why? it is tomorrow and nothing.
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On March 28 2022 03:50 Zergiica wrote:
i noticed that GSL is never ever in upcoming events, why? it is tomorrow and nothing.
Because no one added it to the calendar which is odd. I went ahead and made a calendar event for it. Should be there once a mod approves it.
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EPT
