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United States33421 Posts
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France12886 Posts
Rooting for Rogue & Cure then I am not so sure. Maybe Solar because he has the level for better results? Dream after his comeback? Or Spirit for the local hero, with huge upsets already yesterday?
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Canada8989 Posts
Harstem and Rotti are to tall for that desk, it's kind of funny to see
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France12886 Posts
They have Rogue playing with a picture of Cure behind him (with Rogue name) xD. They kinda hid it when filming though
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Soul takes first game vs solar!
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France12886 Posts
Weird build from Rogue but he made it work, ggs
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Rogue played so much to his image... selling to cure the "Im going to flood you with roaches, better you play safe!" with his roach posturing and latter 3rd only to tech hard and win with a much later nydus .
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What's happening with spirit solar g2?
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Tune into game 1 and see Rogue down in supply going roaches.
Come back a few minutes later and he's up 1-0, but even supply and pushed back.
Return again after another few mins, and Rogue cleans up 2-0 O.o
What happened? How'd game 1 end?
EDIT: Wow GG Spirit.
Rogue in shape, Spirit playing the tournament of his life and a great, scrappy RO36. Couldn't ask for a better start to this IEM :O
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Spirit with that home cooking.
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On February 24 2022 20:51 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Tune into game 1 and see Rogue down in supply going roaches.
Come back a few minutes later and he's up 1-0, but even supply and pushed back.
Return again after another few mins, and Rogue cleans up 2-0 O.o
What happened? How'd game 1 end?
Lurkers and Nydus Worms.
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On February 24 2022 20:51 Ciaus_Dronu wrote:
Tune into game 1 and see Rogue down in supply going roaches.
Come back a few minutes later and he's up 1-0, but even supply and pushed back.
Return again after another few mins, and Rogue cleans up 2-0 O.o
What happened? How'd game 1 end?
Nydus
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Cool thanks. Classic Rogue things :D
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
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France12886 Posts
Spirit beating Solar is interesting, the group might not be as easy to predict as it looked :o
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Looks like Rogue might be bringing the same style of ZvZ lol
Edit: Nevermind - after game 2 looks like this is just Korean ZvZ
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Was Spirit vs Solar streamed? Any link to VOD?
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I thought Smix was announced to be there?
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Well rogue completely caught off guard by neebs attack, didnt expect that :D
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Canada8989 Posts
Did we get to see what kind of crowd is there?
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France12886 Posts
On February 24 2022 22:04 Nakajin wrote:
Did we get to see what kind of crowd was there?
I think the crowd tomorrow will be bigger, because some people could not move their flight to come one day earlier.
They will probably show the crowd tomorrow then
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Regarding "who's going to win", neeb proves that simping for your race knows no boundaries!
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United States33421 Posts
I just wanna point out the incredible trivia point that Dream is the only player to attend the first IEM Katowice ever (2013) AND the 10th anniversary edition.
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On February 24 2022 22:03 darklycid wrote:
Well rogue completely caught off guard by neebs attack, didnt expect that :D
Look very similar to the way he lost the game 1 to Zest in Last Chance, Rogue got a plan to defend the SkyToss, but he was 30-45secs late when the army hit.
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France12886 Posts
On February 24 2022 22:07 Waxangel wrote:
I just wanna point out the incredible trivia point that Dream is the only player to attend the first IEM Katowice ever (2013) AND the 10th anniversary edition.
You have been heard / read by ZG 
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Did Dream forget the armory??
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France12886 Posts
On February 24 2022 22:13 Fango wrote:
Did Dream forget the armory??
He has it but he doesn’t have the fast burrow afaik
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On February 24 2022 22:07 Waxangel wrote:
I just wanna point out the incredible trivia point that Dream is the only player to attend the first IEM Katowice ever (2013) AND the 10th anniversary edition.
How is it a 10th anniversary if it's 9 years after the first IEM Katowice?
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lol Neeb's void ray betrayed him at the last moment when drone pull happened.
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France12886 Posts
On February 24 2022 22:19 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 22:07 Waxangel wrote:
I just wanna point out the incredible trivia point that Dream is the only player to attend the first IEM Katowice ever (2013) AND the 10th anniversary edition. How is it a 10th anniversary if it's 9 years after the first IEM Katowice?
10th IEM Katowice anniversary and not 10 years anniversary I guess
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On February 24 2022 22:23 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 22:19 Charoisaur wrote:On February 24 2022 22:07 Waxangel wrote:
I just wanna point out the incredible trivia point that Dream is the only player to attend the first IEM Katowice ever (2013) AND the 10th anniversary edition. How is it a 10th anniversary if it's 9 years after the first IEM Katowice? 10th IEM Katowice anniversary and not 10 years anniversary I guess
Ah makes sense
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On February 24 2022 21:49 Rob-Zero wrote:
I thought Smix was announced to be there?
Yeah is she coming later or is she sick?
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France12886 Posts
On February 24 2022 22:52 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 21:49 Rob-Zero wrote:
I thought Smix was announced to be there? Yeah is she coming later or is she sick?
Tomorrow I think
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Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream 
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On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream
Local player vs foreign fan favorite kinda makes sense.
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France12886 Posts
On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream
Spirit got the most cheers expectedly
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If Dream takes out Rogue we may end up with a Spirit-Rogue match to decide 3rd place? That would be a fun one
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On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream
The commentary on both the other streams is great as well though.
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On February 24 2022 23:24 EquilasH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream The commentary on both the other streams is great as well though.
I haven't watched a stream unmuted in a long time anyway, I was just trolling a little bit 
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On February 24 2022 23:26 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 23:24 EquilasH wrote:On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream The commentary on both the other streams is great as well though. I haven't watched a stream unmuted in a long time anyway, I was just trolling a little bit
I'm interested to know why actually. Even the game sounds is enough to make me want to watch it with sound.
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On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream
Spirit's getting a lot of (much deserved) attention this tournament and this is at least arguably a close match.
Rogue vs Dream on the other hand would have been a terrible main stream pick given how it went X)
I do love seeing Rogue win like this, but I can understand not picking it for the main stream.
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On February 24 2022 23:33 EquilasH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 23:26 Durnuu wrote:On February 24 2022 23:24 EquilasH wrote:On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream The commentary on both the other streams is great as well though. I haven't watched a stream unmuted in a long time anyway, I was just trolling a little bit I'm interested to know why actually. Even the game sounds is enough to make me want to watch it with sound.
Probably at work watching on his phone 
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Neeb is getting beat down in this group.
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On February 24 2022 23:35 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 23:33 EquilasH wrote:On February 24 2022 23:26 Durnuu wrote:On February 24 2022 23:24 EquilasH wrote:On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream The commentary on both the other streams is great as well though. I haven't watched a stream unmuted in a long time anyway, I was just trolling a little bit I'm interested to know why actually. Even the game sounds is enough to make me want to watch it with sound. Probably at work watching on his phone
Yeah, watching from work was my first thought as well but that would mean he never watches from home. Which does make sense as well if he's a busy guy I guess.
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On February 24 2022 23:33 EquilasH wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2022 23:26 Durnuu wrote:On February 24 2022 23:24 EquilasH wrote:On February 24 2022 23:15 Durnuu wrote:Imagine guys, you have a choice between Solar vs Cure, Rogue vs Dream or Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream, and you choose Spirit vs Neeb for the main stream The commentary on both the other streams is great as well though. I haven't watched a stream unmuted in a long time anyway, I was just trolling a little bit I'm interested to know why actually. Even the game sounds is enough to make me want to watch it with sound.
I just don't like listening to most casters, although game sounds could be a good reason I suppose
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That's fair. Thanks for the answer mate.
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On February 24 2022 23:37 Vindicare605 wrote:
Neeb is getting beat down in this group.
So is spirit unfortunately after his first series
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Damn Dark admitting everyone is getting older....
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Canada8989 Posts
By the way, does someone has a good Cure-Dream pun? I feel like there should be tons of them but I can't find any.
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France12886 Posts
Poor Cure getting attacked by the camera
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
On February 25 2022 00:46 Poopi wrote:
Poor Cure getting attacked by the camera
Do the cameras dislike Cure as much as booths dislike Gumiho?
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Nailbiter at the end in that TvT.
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What an intense TvT gg wp Dream
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Cure, the first current Code S champion not advancing to IEM playoff stage?
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On February 25 2022 01:32 yoshi245 wrote:
Nailbiter at the end in that TvT.
Great TvT game.
p/s: happy birthday yoshi.
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On February 25 2022 01:35 swarminfestor wrote:Great TvT game. p/s: happy birthday yoshi.
Thanks, it's actually tomorrow(25th) but whatever.
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
Wow that was one hell of an arc Time set up there
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Well Throwtime arrived in IEM full force 
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
I'm really liking that battle report UI they're using, nice and clean. Is it something us mere mortals can access?
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On February 25 2022 01:50 darklycid wrote:Well Throwtime arrived in IEM full force
where are you watching?
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On February 25 2022 01:52 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 01:50 darklycid wrote:Well Throwtime arrived in IEM full force where are you watching?
Catz stream.
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On February 25 2022 01:53 darklycid wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 01:52 Charoisaur wrote:On February 25 2022 01:50 darklycid wrote:Well Throwtime arrived in IEM full force where are you watching? Catz stream.
thx
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Remember Dark went 10-0, in his group last year?
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Serral vs Dark to start the group omg! 
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Man showtime not playing well
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
On February 25 2022 02:01 Shathe wrote:
Remember Dark went 10-0, in his group last year?
Well that dream is already dead first set :O Went for a smoke and bloody missed it mind...
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Serral and Dark know they gotta catch up with the program, being 1 game behind the other match.
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Lol, definitely nobody saw that 12 pool coming lol.
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On February 25 2022 01:34 swarminfestor wrote:
Cure, the first current Code S champion not advancing to IEM playoff stage?
Maru didn't make playoffs at Katowice 2019 in between winning consecutive Code S.
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On February 25 2022 02:01 Shathe wrote:
Remember Dark went 10-0, in his group last year?
It was legendary. I don't think anyone this year except Serral has a chance to do it
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ZvZ is as random as ever. But good stuff from Serral anyway
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Dark did that bad anti-timing attack put him behind, and Serral punish that with the banes rolling in was great.
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Joona finally playing well again in a ZvZ!
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
Serral’s going to take some stopping in this group, I’d fancied Dark to have pretty even odds to beat him out for top spot and this be an essential playoff for top spot.
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Off topic, but whos taller, Rotti or Harstem?
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On February 25 2022 02:25 koalabro wrote:
Off topic, but whos taller, Rotti or Harstem?
Harstem, easily! What I am not sure of is if Tod is even taller than Harstem.
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Special looking like a Chad!
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Good to see Serral finally doing well in ZvZ again! Missed the games, did he do it with good builds or did he just react/macro well?
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On February 25 2022 02:44 dysenterymd wrote:
Good to see Serral finally doing well in ZvZ again! Missed the games, did he do it with good builds or did he just react/macro well?
defended 12 pool spine rush in the first game and did react/macro well in game 2
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TIME's tanks just killed 7 Ghosts with friendly fire :O
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Serral wants to sleep early tonight
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On February 25 2022 02:44 dysenterymd wrote:
Good to see Serral finally doing well in ZvZ again! Missed the games, did he do it with good builds or did he just react/macro well?
I think the most imporant thing was that he did not mis-read any of the build Dark did. As long as Serral can know the right build and react on time, hes almost unbeatable.
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On February 25 2022 02:55 Xitah wrote:
Serral wants to sleep early tonight
I mean he's leaving with everyone else regardless since he might have to wait for others to finish their games
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China6329 Posts
On February 25 2022 02:25 koalabro wrote:
Off topic, but whos taller, Rotti or Harstem?
Harstem is a freaking giant. He is like 190+cm or something.
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What a tilting game for Showtime
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If Dark lose to Time, he might be out of the tournament, considering Showtime PvZ are pretty great and Dark doesnt have the strongest anti-VoidRay game.
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Damn, Queens are disgustingly good against Terran (and Protoss)
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Time actually played phenomenal but Serral was just Serral
edit: Which is good for him because, as we know, if he got second in that group that's bad - and if he got third he would be absolutely awful. And let's not even talk about fourth...
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
On February 25 2022 04:09 Pandain wrote:
Time actually played phenomenal but Serral was just Serral
Time's looked really good today, as he usually does, alas nothing to show from his TvZs just yet!
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United States33421 Posts
I thought it actually got a litttttle bit dicey for Serral when he burned a ton of resources on the first useless ultra charge, but the timely mutalisk reload and backdooring sealed it for him.
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On February 25 2022 04:11 Waxangel wrote:
I thought it actually got a litttttle bit dicey for Serral when he burned a ton of resources on the first useless ultra charge, but the timely mutalisk reload and backdooring sealed it for him.
Yeah, it seems like he could've gotten the same done with just 3-5 Ultralisks since the biggest win from that transition was making Time mass Marauders, making Serral's Mutas very effective.
Edit: I can see why Serral used "confident" 14 times in his interview.
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Serral's looking REALLY good again. Nice to see.
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
So far it seems we've got the scary incarnation of Serral showing up, good to see.
Really I've just been impressed by the general games these first few days, the level of the game is really something to behold compared to when it all started in WoL!
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On February 25 2022 04:23 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Serral's looking REALLY good again. Nice to see.
tbf I think he always looks to be around this level.
Usually he only starts to struggle when facing Clem, Maru, Reynor, Dark, Rogue.
Well, he beat Dark, so that's good
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TIME's TvZ has gotten SUPER good over the last couple years. I'd say he's easily top 5 Terrans in the world at the match up right now.
But when Serral is playing like that, I think he needs to switch tactics. That's why Maru plays more defensively like he does now. In both games, Serral was punishing him hard whenever he tried to move out with more than just skirmishers. In straight up fights TIME was actually playing really cost efficiently, it's just not really possible to match Zerg mobility especially when you are relying heavily on Thors and Siege Tanks.
Either that, or he has to rely on something more committed in the early or midgame before Zerg can maximize a 4-5 base economy.
He was playing into Zerg's hands the way he handled that series. The hyper mobility of Ling/Bling/Muta WANTS you to fight on two fronts at once. TIME was only figuring out too late in the games that he had to either commit to an attack or not and by that point Serral just had too many bases and too many Hatcheries for TIME to ever successfully win a base race.
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On February 25 2022 04:32 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 04:23 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Serral's looking REALLY good again. Nice to see. tbf I think he always looks to be around this level. Usually he only starts to struggle when facing Clem, Maru, Reynor, Dark, Rogue. Well, he beat Dark, so that's good
Bo3 ZvZs hardly tell anything of a story. Especially when Dark loves to flip coins in that match up. That one was always going to go either way. The fact he isn't dropping maps at all in the other match ups is more telling. Now Dark has no real chance of taking first place even if Serral seriously screws up a series which he wont considering TIME is the best opponent other than Dark in this group and he just crushed him.
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
On February 25 2022 04:40 Vindicare605 wrote:
TIME's TvZ has gotten SUPER good over the last couple years. I'd say he's easily top 5 Terrans in the world at the match up right now.
But when Serral is playing like that, I think he needs to switch tactics. That's why Maru plays more defensively like he does now. In both games, Serral was punishing him hard whenever he tried to move out with more than just skirmishers. In straight up fights TIME was actually playing really cost efficiently, it's just not really possible to match Zerg mobility especially when you are relying heavily on Thors and Siege Tanks.
Either that, or he has to rely on something more committed in the early or midgame before Zerg can maximize a 4-5 base economy.
He was playing into Zerg's hands the way he handled that series. The hyper mobility of Ling/Bling/Muta WANTS you to fight on two fronts at once. TIME was only figuring out too late in the games that he had to either commit to an attack or not and by that point Serral just had too many bases and too many Hatcheries for TIME to ever successfully win a base race.
I’ve only ever seen Maru consistently manage to secure the space and defend the territory to play that more defensive style, to the extent I really think it’s only him who’s capable of playing it against a real S class ZvTer consistently.
The other approach is to commit more to trying to cripple, allied with great control and Clem’s shown Serral can be taken down that way pretty consistently, so yeah agree with the commitment point as maybe the way to go.
Unless you get miracle trades, trying to skirmish for most of the game against Zerg mobility in the hands of a Serral will see you die by a thousand papercuts
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Juanito is doing a crazy 150 supply transition into mass BCs while playing bio.
EDIT; It was a complete failure.
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Dark desperately needs vipers. Have no idea why he's trying to fight vs superior protoss units.
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Here we go, the way to beat Skytoss is to just relentlessly attack it with as many different random unit comps as you can so that the Protoss army makes as little sense as yours does.
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Shut down my Stargates, will you? How about I shut down your Spire?
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Oh Dark. Why can't you ever just be normal?
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Really rooted for Showtime here, but the better player prevailed. To my dismay that was clear to see.
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absolutely crazy game there
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On February 25 2022 04:59 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Juanito is doing a crazy 150 supply transition into mass BCs while playing bio.
EDIT; It was a complete failure.
That sounds incredibly funny, please tell what happened exactly
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On February 25 2022 05:17 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 04:59 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Juanito is doing a crazy 150 supply transition into mass BCs while playing bio.
EDIT; It was a complete failure. That sounds incredibly funny, please tell what happened exactly
He's playing Serral on 2k Atmos, tries a 3port bc transition at 150 supply of bio. He gets 5 bcs out without Serral scouting them, but that's only because Serral is busy killing his 4th repeatedly and killed almost all his workers.
The 5 BCs teleport across the map with terrible upgrades and instantly get smashed by queens and hydras. It was really funny.
EDIT: This was played on Catz's stream if you want to look it up
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Anytime showtime still advances without beating serral?
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On February 25 2022 05:30 TheLordofAwesome wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 05:17 Charoisaur wrote:On February 25 2022 04:59 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Juanito is doing a crazy 150 supply transition into mass BCs while playing bio.
EDIT; It was a complete failure. That sounds incredibly funny, please tell what happened exactly He's playing Serral on 2k Atmos, tries a 3port bc transition at 150 supply of bio. He gets 5 bcs out without Serral scouting them, but that's only because Serral is busy killing his 4th repeatedly and killed almost all his workers. The 5 BCs teleport across the map with terrible upgrades and instantly get smashed by queens and hydras. It was really funny. EDIT: This was played on Catz's stream if you want to look it up
Hahaha I will check it out
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Is Serral gauranteed first place now no matter what?
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did Dark just beat Mass Immortals with Mass Ultras
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PvZ looking as unfun as ever 
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On February 25 2022 05:40 Charoisaur wrote:
did Dark just beat Mass Immortals with Mass Ultras
Mass Immortal/Archon/Carrier with Queen/Ultralisk/Infestor memestack.
He also beat Phoenix with Anion Pulse Crystals with Mutalisk/Zergling.
Dark going full meme on Showtime and still beating him convincingly.
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On February 25 2022 05:39 Xitah wrote:
Is Serral gauranteed first place now no matter what?
Yes he is.
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On February 25 2022 05:39 Xitah wrote:
Is Serral gauranteed first place now no matter what?
Yes. And most likely outcome if Dark beats Ryung, Time beats Special, and serral beats showtime is that we have three players with 2-3. I can't do math but Ryung seems best positioned becuase he has a +0 score going in (with 5-5 score) versus Showtime/Special with both -2 and 4/6 scores.
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lol. Ryung really is going to TvT his way into third place and out of this group.
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France12886 Posts
If TIME wins 2-0 and Ryung doesn’t win any game TIME is through right? Could be dicey, Dark is a tough ZvT opponent
If ShoWTimE doesn’t win any map it’s probably complicated as well…
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OK so... Who qualifies now ? I guess TIME, Ryung and ShoWTime all have realistic chances but it's very hard to predict
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If Ryung wins versus Dark - Ryung in.
If Ryung wins ONE game and Time doesn't win 2-0 AND Showtime doesn't win - Ryung is in.
If Showtime wins and Ryung doesn't - Showtime is in (this is only way showtime is in I think)
Time ONLY might be in if neither showtime or Ryung win (which is not unlikely). But (1) if Time wins 2-1, he's only in if Ryung lost 0-2. (2) If Time wins 2-0, he's in (again, as long as both showtime/Ryung lost).
This is my really bad math but hopefully a good start.
In short, honestly, I think Time has a good chance at advancing?????? Showtime/Ryung are massive underdogs and Time is favored versus Special (probably?)
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Pretty sure showtime is eliminated unless he beats Serral. No way for his mapscore to get him through at 2-3. Ryung has to take a map from Dark to tie with Time. Or Time has to lose to Special.
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France12886 Posts
On February 25 2022 05:50 Pandain wrote:
If Ryung wins versus Dark - Ryung in.
If Ryung wins ONE game and Time doesn't win 2-0 AND Showtime doesn't win - Ryung is in.
If Showtime wins and Ryung doesn't - Showtime is in (this is only way showtime is in I think)
Time ONLY might be in if neither showtime or Ryung win (which is not unlikely). But (1) if Time wins 2-1, he's only in if Ryung lost 0-2. (2) If Time wins 2-0, he's in (again, as long as both showtime/Ryung lost).
This is my really bad math but hopefully a good start.
In short, honestly, I think Time has a good chance at advancing??????
Yeah I think Dark and Serral might 2-0, TIME « just » has to 2-0 as well and he is in. But it upsets happen with map wins, it can get relatively complicated.
Ryung winning one map should qualify him
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Ryung is up by 2 maps. So TIME or Showtime would have to either win their matches or lose 2-1 and Ryung to lose 2-0 to force a 3 way tiebreaker.
Then it gets weird because TIME has the tiebreaker over Showtime, Showtime has the tiebreaker over Ryung and Ryung has the tiebreaker over TIME.
So Showtime has the most difficult way through because he absolutely NEEDS to take a map off of Serral and he needs Ryung and TIME to both lose 2-0.
TIME is playing Special and Ryung is playing Dark. I'd favor TIME over Special and Ryung is good enough to take one map off of Dark over Showtime taking a map or winning a series against Serral.
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Thanks guys. Basically it looks good for TIME but if Special beats him then Ryung has a good shot, and ShoWTime qualifying would pretty much require a miracle
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On February 25 2022 05:53 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ryung is up by 2 maps. So TIME or Showtime would have to either win their matches or lose 2-1 and Ryung to lose 2-0 to force a 3 way tiebreaker.
Then it gets weird because TIME has the tiebreaker over Showtime, Showtime has the tiebreaker over Ryung and Ryung has the tiebreaker over TIME.
So Showtime has the most difficult way through because he absolutely NEEDS to take a map off of Serral and he needs Ryung and TIME to both lose 2-0.
TIME is playing Special and Ryung is playing Dark. I'd favor TIME over Special and Ryung is good enough to take one map off of Dark over Showtime taking a map or winning a series against Serral.
I think there's actually a 5% chance Ryung even takes a game. Ryung is great at positioning and big picture thinking - and TvZ is just too mechanical.
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What a GROUP by the way - we said it would be a bloodbath for third place and holy crap did it deliver
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On February 25 2022 05:56 Pandain wrote:
What a GROUP by the way - we said it would be a bloodbath for third place and holy crap did it deliver
so far this IEM has been a blast
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United States33421 Posts
Ryung to qualify somehow even with a loss? that would be amusing
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Stream : Dark is 10-0 (24-3) vs Ryung. Nah, it will be hard for Ryung.
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On February 25 2022 05:55 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 05:53 Vindicare605 wrote:
Ryung is up by 2 maps. So TIME or Showtime would have to either win their matches or lose 2-1 and Ryung to lose 2-0 to force a 3 way tiebreaker.
Then it gets weird because TIME has the tiebreaker over Showtime, Showtime has the tiebreaker over Ryung and Ryung has the tiebreaker over TIME.
So Showtime has the most difficult way through because he absolutely NEEDS to take a map off of Serral and he needs Ryung and TIME to both lose 2-0.
TIME is playing Special and Ryung is playing Dark. I'd favor TIME over Special and Ryung is good enough to take one map off of Dark over Showtime taking a map or winning a series against Serral. I think there's actually a 5% chance Ryung even takes a game. Ryung is great at positioning and big picture thinking - and TvZ is just too mechanical.
Thing is Ryung doesn't need to take a map off of Dark to advance. If Ryung loses 2-0 and TIME wins 2-1 they are now tied and Ryung has the tiebreaker. This only gets weird if Showtime also takes a game off of Serral which I think is even less likely than Ryung taking a map off of Dark.
So TIME needs to win 2-0 in order to advance.
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OK I think we all agree the most realistic issue for Serral - ShoWTime and Dark - Ryung is 2-0. If that happens, who would qualify in every TIME Special scenario ?
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Hang on. Current map score is 5-5 Ryung and 4-6 TIME. So if Ryung goes 0-2 that puts him at 5-7 and TIME is at 6-7 if he beats Special.
So I got this wrong. If Ryung loses 2-0 and TIME wins at all he wins by exactly one map win. If Ryung loses 0-2 and TIME loses 1-2 Ryung wins via Tiebreaker. If Ryung loses 1-2 and TIME wins 2-1 Ryung advances via Tiebreaker.
Showtime needs to beat Serral to advance. It's as simple as that. and he still doesn't qualify if TIME 2-0's Special. So the only way Showtime advances is if he beats Serral and both Ryung loses 0-2 and TIME loses to Special.
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On February 25 2022 05:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:
OK I think we all agree the most realistic issue for Serral - ShoWTime and Dark - Ryung is 2-0. If that happens, who would qualify in every TIME Special scenario ?
I'm probably wrong but in that case Ryung qualifies if TIME loses or if TIME wins 2-1. If TIME 2-0s special, then TIME is in. In your scenario showtime never gets in
EDIT: nvm I was wrong, look at the comment right above mine. If TIME wins at all he's through
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On February 25 2022 06:02 Vindicare605 wrote:
Hang on. Current map score is 5-5 Ryung and 4-6 TIME. So if Ryung goes 0-2 that puts him at 5-7 and TIME is at 6-7 if he beats Special.
So I got this wrong. If Ryung loses 2-0 and TIME wins at all he wins by exactly one map win. If Ryung loses 0-2 and TIME loses 1-2 Ryung wins via Tiebreaker.
Showtime needs to beat Serral to advance. It's as simple as that. and he still doesn't qualify if TIME 2-0's Special. So the only way Showtime advances is if he beats Serral and both Ryung loses 0-2 and TIME loses to Special.
Great, we are on the same page then. That's what I wrote above but wasn't sure if I was right
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On February 25 2022 05:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:
OK I think we all agree the most realistic issue for Serral - ShoWTime and Dark - Ryung is 2-0. If that happens, who would qualify in every TIME Special scenario ?
If Showtime/Ryung lose 0-2, Time is through as long as he wins the series. If all of Showtime/Ryung/Time lose, then Ryung is through with a majestic 2-3 score.
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On February 25 2022 06:05 Lokol18 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 05:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:
OK I think we all agree the most realistic issue for Serral - ShoWTime and Dark - Ryung is 2-0. If that happens, who would qualify in every TIME Special scenario ? I'm probably wrong but in that case Ryung qualifies if TIME loses or if TIME wins 2-1. If TIME 2-0s special, then TIME is in. In your scenario showtime never gets in EDIT: nvm I was wrong, look at the comment right above mine. If TIME wins at all he's through
No if Ryung takes a map off of Dark and TIME loses a map to Special. Ryung advances via tiebreaker. TIME needs to 2-0 Special or Ryung to lose 0-2 to advance.
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Also - Rogue and Dark as second-place Ro12 opponents - defniitely no one wants to get third in their groups now
Also if Ryung loses but still advances I would love if they still interview Ryung :D
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TIME IS NOW ONLY IN IF (1) SHOWTIME LOSES (2) TIME WINS 2-1 AND (3) RYUNG LOSES 0-2
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You know what I find slightly humorous, is that in the Ro36 Zerg got absolutely crushed it was all Terran and Protoss but here in the group Stages Zergs have taken all 4 spots so far and have looked dominant doing it.
The best 5 Zergs in the world are just head and shoulders above everyone else. It's something we used to say about Terran but now it's clearly an elite tier of Zerg at the very tip top with only Maru really on that same level from any other race.
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Would Zerg have done as poorly in the ro36 with Armani and Ragnarok present though? I considered Ragnarok one of the favorites (though I felt the same about DRG).
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Well Showtime is out. TIME is blowing this vs Special looks like Ryung is going to win no matter what.
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Poor showtime, losing vs time rly broke his neck to get out of this group
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Showtime out.
Time and Ryung literally playing for their tournament life. If Ryung wins one game, he's in. If Ryung doesn't win a game, Time is in if he beats Special 2-1.
Looks like Ryung is in!!!!!!!!!!!1
ESL give us that interview!!
REPLACMENT MAN TO THE RO12
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On February 25 2022 06:19 Vindicare605 wrote:
The best 5 Zergs in the world are just head and shoulders above everyone else. It's something we used to say about Terran but now it's clearly an elite tier of Zerg at the very tip top with only Maru really on that same level from any other race.
Definitely, the last several world championships have been a showdown between Dark, Rogue, Serral, Reynor, and Maru (and maybe soO).
I don't think we ever said that about terran. It was usually one of the horseman that were the best in the world and crushing it at any given time.
I don't know at what point you stop saying the top X zergs are just better than everyone else and that zerg is just stronger as a race.
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lol. I called it earlier. Ryung literally advanced out of this group by just beating the other Terrans. How much it feels like old times.
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France12886 Posts
So Ryung is through right? If Serral wins
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On February 25 2022 06:30 Poopi wrote:
So Ryung is through right? If Serral wins
Serral already won and Special 2-0'd TIME. Ryung is advancing no matter what happens vs Dark.
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Man his group stage was ugly but what a run by Ryung.
The man came into this with . . . 238 ESL points
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France12886 Posts
On February 25 2022 06:31 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 06:30 Poopi wrote:
So Ryung is through right? If Serral wins Serral already won and Special 2-0'd TIME. Ryung is advancing no matter what happens vs Dark.
Thanks, I am happy for him! That’s a very impressive result, no one expected Ryung in ro12 as replacement for Armani
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So Group B has the two Zergs advancing and third place advancing with a 2-3 match score lol.
Yea this is pretty much what I expected, I thought maybe TIME would perform better but he just brainfarts in TvT so often. His typical aggro style doesn't work in that match up that well.
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This Fantasy GG timing though.
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Remember Ryung has no idea that he's already through.....
He probably thinks if he loses this game that's it for him in the tournament
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lol I think Ryung thinks he's eliminated
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is someone gonna go tell Ryung that he advanced?
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On February 25 2022 06:39 Die4Ever wrote:
lol I think Ryung thinks he's eliminated
somebody tell Ryung lololol
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My God Ryung !!! What a man !
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France12886 Posts
On February 25 2022 06:38 TheLordofAwesome wrote:
Remember Ryung has no idea that he's already through.....
He probably thinks if he loses this game that's it for him in the tournament
Yeah they told him like 2mn after he lost
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I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D.
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Big takeaways from today:
1. Serral sending a message - going 10-0 and dominant while doing it.
2. Cinderella story Ryung advances to Ro12 after being replacement and coming in with 232 ESL points.
3. Definitely no one in Groups C/D wants third place - if they do, 2/3 chance of facing Dark/Rogue.
4. Solar cementing his legacy as the Group Stage GOAT
5. Bad day for foreigners - only Serral advances.
6. Great day for Dream - ro12!
7. Dark still most entertaining player?
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On February 25 2022 06:45 Pandain wrote:
Big takeaways from today:
1. Serral sending a message - going 10-0 and dominant while doing it.
2. Cinderella story Ryung advances to Ro12 after being replacement and coming in with 232 ESL points.
3. Definitely no one in Groups C/D wants third place - if they do, 2/3 chance of facing Dark/Rogue.
4. Solar cementing his legacy as the Group Stage GOAT
5. Bad day for foreigners - only Serral advances.
6. Great day for Dream - ro12!
7. Dark still most entertaining player?
8. Protoss hope in group C (Zest&Trap or bust)
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On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D.
Yeah exactly. Like the only players who had legitimate shot at beating either serral or dark in that group were just each other
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You know what I thought of just now? Group A and B players have more time to prepare for the next round compared to Group C and D. This could have been alleviated by only playing the first 3 matches of each group today, and then the remainder tomorrow.
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On February 25 2022 06:48 geokilla wrote:
You know what I thought of just now? Group A and B players have more time to prepare for the next round compared to Group C and D. This could have been alleviated by only playing the first 3 matches of each group today, and then the remainder tomorrow.
Yup and Group D is the Group of Death and they play last.
Just one more reason these group draws were hilariously horrifically unfair.
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On February 25 2022 06:45 Pandain wrote:
Big takeaways from today:
1. Serral sending a message - going 10-0 and dominant while doing it.
2. Cinderella story Ryung advances to Ro12 after being replacement and coming in with 232 ESL points.
3. Definitely no one in Groups C/D wants third place - if they do, 2/3 chance of facing Dark/Rogue.
4. Solar cementing his legacy as the Group Stage GOAT
5. Bad day for foreigners - only Serral advances.
6. Great day for Dream - ro12!
7. Dark still most entertaining player?
Besides potentially Dark, this group was a breeze for Serral. For some reason every tournament he is in, he coincidentally gets put one of the easier groups. Imagine if he was put in group D. No way would he go 10-0 in that group. Yeah he showed up, but just to rob an empty house. Still impressive, but with a bit of context its not that impressive. The most impressive thing he did in this group was upset Dark
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On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D.
It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time).
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I'm dying to see the bracket draws already lol, I need to know who Ryung is gonna face
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On February 25 2022 06:51 Die4Ever wrote:
I'm dying to see the bracket draws already lol, I need to know who Ryung is gonna face
They gave us some early bracket draws during Ro36 before we even knew all the players who qualified but I think we will have to wait until tomorrow night to find out
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On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time).
Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark.
Maru same thing.
The fact was this group only ever had 2 top tier players in it and Group D has 4 or possibly 5 depending how you rate Byun and Group A has 4. It's not fair to Cure or whoever whoever gets 4th in Group D.
I mean it allows us to have the Cinderella narrative with Ryung and that's cool and all but Ryung is going to get crushed in the next round and meanwhile we have Rogue or Dark taking on someone that gets third place from Group D.
It's just not a fair draw and as much as we all love entertainment we're talking about big money differences for the players on account of something they don't get to decide.
At LEAST at LEAST in GSL, the players form their groups so if the drawing is unfair the players did it to themselves. That feels better than this method does.
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Canada8989 Posts
Clearly the stars are perfectly alligned for Maru to go 4-1 in group losing 2-0 to ByuN, then losing 3-0 to Ryung in the round of 12.
Friendship is the new teammates
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On February 25 2022 06:58 Nakajin wrote:
Clearly the stars are perfectly alligned for Maru to go 4-1 in group losing 2-0 to ByuN, then losing 3-0 to Ryung in the round of 12.
Friendship is the new teammates
Prime Terrans gonna Prime Terran.
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On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark.
I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. It's also a little bit unfair to take out the most important part of his run (2-0ing Dark) and saying "IGNORING that, it's not that big of a deal", when that is part of the whole deal.
Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead
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France12886 Posts
Oh crap I missed it. What did he say?
Funny that one of Reynor / Maru / Clem / ByuN is not going to make it yet Ryung does
These draws were so unfair :|
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United States33421 Posts
shoutout to the b-stream guys for grabbing ryung for an interview after he found out he advanced
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1406309417?t=11h31m
pretty funny stuff—the same way Maru always shouts out Ryung for his success, Ryung gave all the credit to Maru "my body ryung, but my soul maru"
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On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead
I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck.
What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected.
And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him.
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Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
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On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him.
I mean that goes both ways - case in point the guy goes 10-0 and people go bonkers when people point it out as noteworthy. I just think it's sort of dumb to go to the other extreme and say "oh this is absolutely nothing" when even assuming Serral had a 93% chance of winning EACH GAME that there's still less than a 50% chance he goes 10-0.
Like guy above said, if Dark did it last year - that's really awesome! It's also awesome here. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on.
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Oh man, I'm so glad we were able to grab Ryung after he qualified. What an insane run! He's the first player to qualify to the playoffs with a losing series record since soo, and we all know how that ended....
"My body Ryung, but my soul Maru"
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On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on.
I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium.
And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around.
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him.
Dark got tons of praise for looking terrifying having 10-0ed his group last out, including from me. Having checked the group I was half expecting a way more stacked group.
It’s remarkably similar, Serral in second, Special bottom, TIME going out 4th. A past his peak Inno making it out third and Bunny making up the remainder. .
There’s winning a group and winning games you’re expected to, and 10-0ing without looking remotely in trouble. Serral only broke sweat against Dark, it’s not like the rest of the games were tight 2-0s
The overhyping of Serral is something that irks me too, frequently but especially after a patchy year by his standards coming to Katowice and looking right on point, it’s certainly worth commenting on.
I mean Trap had an absolutely stellar year last year and bombed out of groups, it’s not a given to get through, much less sail through.
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United States33421 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
nah, I remember ppl hyping it hard for the three days until the playoffs
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On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
Man, you don't even have to go back to last year, people were talking about Dark 10-0ing his group literally five pages earlier in this very thread.
Anyway, here's some quotes from last year's thread that you don't remember:
On February 24 2021 03:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 03:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On February 24 2021 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark again incredibly far behind lol, he'll probably win this one after 40 minutes and keep the perfect score alive okay he somehow held. 10-0!
On February 24 2021 03:53 ShAd_1337 wrote:
PERFECT
On February 24 2021 03:54 Morbidius wrote:
10-0, imagine what Dark could achieve he played well like European Zergs!
On February 24 2021 09:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Dark! Damn, that 10-0!
And here's what the article about it had to say:
On February 25 2021 05:11 TL.net ESPORTS wrote:[big] <a href=" Dark" class="zicon" title="[More info on Liquipedia]">Dark</a> joined elite company in Group B of IEM Katowice 2021, becoming the first player to achieve a perfect 10-0 map score in the IEM World Championship since MMA in Season VI (2012).
So now that we've established our baseline for what unmemorable praise looks like, please show me what this major praise Serral has received here on TL.net is, that you find so excessive and annoying.
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On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
Going 10-0 at Katowice is no small feat, Dark was the first one to make it happen last year; I agree that their group was easier than 2021's but Serral still won every map.
As for people not caring that much about Dark's feat, I hope you are joking!
Everyone last year was already hyping Dark, after he went 10-0 it looked like him winning Katowice was a foregone conclusion.
It was indeed super annoying.
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France12886 Posts
Watching games live is so much more tiring than on streams from home, it’s impressive for players to play in such long groups (with jet lag no less), and for casters as well even with rotation
11 hour day was tough even though I didn’t cheer for any particular player, group D is gonna be brutal
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Canada8989 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:52 Poopi wrote:
Watching games live is so much more tiring than on streams from home, it’s impressive for players to play in such long groups (with jet lag no less), and for casters as well even with rotation
11 hour day was tough even though I didn’t cheer for any particular player, group D is gonna be brutal
We want some pictures!
(Well I want them)
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any recommended games? i will probably watch some of my favorite players but i dont want to miss the best games
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On February 25 2022 07:44 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year. Man, you don't even have to go back to last year, people were talking about Dark 10-0ing his group literally five pages earlier in this very thread. Anyway, here's some quotes from last year's thread that you don't remember: Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 03:47 Charoisaur wrote:On February 24 2021 03:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On February 24 2021 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark again incredibly far behind lol, he'll probably win this one after 40 minutes and keep the perfect score alive okay he somehow held. 10-0! Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 03:54 Morbidius wrote:
10-0, imagine what Dark could achieve he played well like European Zergs! Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 09:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Dark! Damn, that 10-0! And here's what the article about it had to say: Show nested quote +On February 25 2021 05:11 TL.net ESPORTS wrote:[big] <a href="Dark" class="zicon" title="[More info on Liquipedia]">Dark</a> joined elite company in Group B of IEM Katowice 2021, becoming the first player to achieve a perfect 10-0 map score in the IEM World Championship since MMA in Season VI (2012). So now that we've established our baseline for what unmemorable praise looks like, please show me what this major praise Serral has received here on TL.net is, that you find so excessive and annoying.
Fair enough, I can see that being considered major praise. I was wrong about Dark.
I never said I was annoyed by Serral praise on TL. I very rarely am. It's normally the stream and Reddit. I have not visited Reddit today and I didn't have the stream on at the time the complaint was made (which I already acknowledged) I was just remarking that I wasn't surprised to hear the casters were making a bigger deal about Serral's 10-0 because they always make a bigger deal about his results.
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On February 25 2022 08:16 Topin wrote:
any recommended games? i will probably watch some of my favorite players but i dont want to miss the best games
Serral vs TIME was good because it was dominating play in the match up. Dark vs Showtime was a memefest that is worth watching for the laughs.
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I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far
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On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far
Unsurprising that you would feel like you haven't seen him the whole tournament so far given that he hasn't played at all in the whole tournament so far.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:28 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposeto win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on. I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium. And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around.
When was the last time foreign casters were not overhyping foreigners just because they're foreigners? They don't even try to pretend at this point. Sometimes when 2 Koreans play they even start talking about foreigners Just ignore it and not watch it if it's that's annoying for you.
Edit> e.g. I don't watch it, just check results.
On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far
prepare to be disappointed.
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Northern Ireland25538 Posts
On February 25 2022 08:58 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:28 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposeto win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on. I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium. And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around. When was the last time foreign casters were not overhyping foreigners just because they're foreigners? They don't even try to pretend at this point. Sometimes when 2 Koreans play they even start talking about foreigners Just ignore it and not watch it if it's that's annoying for you. Edit> e.g. I don't watch it, just check results. Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far prepare to be disappointed.
I don’t think today was bad at all for that, a lot of hype for the veteran Ryung and his run, across the 3 streams I was following.
As foreign hype goes today was pretty tolerable, I imagine it will slip into intolerable when Heromarine plays though.
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I'm really interested in how they pick the main-stage matches for Group D. The most hype matches would be Clem-Maru first, Clem-Reynor second, and then Maru-Reynor third. But I'm not sure they're going to want to do just 3 players for the first three matches.
But I hope they do lol - the hype levels would be off the charts. Can you imagine all of them right after one another?
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On February 25 2022 08:58 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:28 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposeto win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on. I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium. And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around. When was the last time foreign casters were not overhyping foreigners just because they're foreigners? They don't even try to pretend at this point. Sometimes when 2 Koreans play they even start talking about foreigners Just ignore it and not watch it if it's that's annoying for you. Edit> e.g. I don't watch it, just check results. Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far prepare to be disappointed.
Maru could either be 10-0 and give all “KR elitist” the fuel to burn, or get 2-3 and get barely miss the playoff. But dont forget, there is Ryung - the whisperer, around this time.
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Ryung's impressive run in IEM Katowice should be discussed some more. I think he is the first one from Ro36 manages to advances into playoff stage. Last year, no one from Ro36 is able to break into playoff stage.
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Seeing Ryungs performance here is definitely awesome. I always felt bad for him that he peaked during one of the most imbalanced periods of the game. If he peaked a year earlier or later he probably would have won something. Though it created one of the most memorable events of the games history.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2022 11:17 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 08:58 deacon.frost wrote:On February 25 2022 07:28 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposeto win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on. I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium. And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around. When was the last time foreign casters were not overhyping foreigners just because they're foreigners? They don't even try to pretend at this point. Sometimes when 2 Koreans play they even start talking about foreigners Just ignore it and not watch it if it's that's annoying for you. Edit> e.g. I don't watch it, just check results. On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far prepare to be disappointed. I don’t think today was bad at all for that, a lot of hype for the veteran Ryung and his run, across the 3 streams I was following. As foreign hype goes today was pretty tolerable, I imagine it will slip into intolerable when Heromarine plays though.
I don't know, I watched 3 maps, 2 of them with the sound off =) It's possible, was just reacting to what was written. The only way one can try to change things is sadly via the viewership
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France12886 Posts
On February 25 2022 08:03 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:52 Poopi wrote:
Watching games live is so much more tiring than on streams from home, it’s impressive for players to play in such long groups (with jet lag no less), and for casters as well even with rotation
11 hour day was tough even though I didn’t cheer for any particular player, group D is gonna be brutal We want some pictures! (Well I want them)
Sure!
Some will come later, will add more stuff etc., but here are some already:
https://tl.net/blogs/586921-iem-katowice-2022-my-journey-there
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On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him.
Hes their great hope to best the Koreans they could never hold a candle to before. They will never admit it but they have a raging jealously and resentment against the Koreans. A lot of these guys thought they could compete with them back in the day. They talk about him how ESPN talks about LeBron. It gets annoying after awhile.
None of em will admit Zerg is OP, and Terran needs late game splash.
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EPT
![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/mmCuuhG.png)
