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Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
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On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead  I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him.
I mean that goes both ways - case in point the guy goes 10-0 and people go bonkers when people point it out as noteworthy. I just think it's sort of dumb to go to the other extreme and say "oh this is absolutely nothing" when even assuming Serral had a 93% chance of winning EACH GAME that there's still less than a 50% chance he goes 10-0.
Like guy above said, if Dark did it last year - that's really awesome! It's also awesome here. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on.
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Oh man, I'm so glad we were able to grab Ryung after he qualified. What an insane run! He's the first player to qualify to the playoffs with a losing series record since soo, and we all know how that ended....
"My body Ryung, but my soul Maru"
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On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on.
I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium.
And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around.
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Northern Ireland27041 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposed to win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him.
Dark got tons of praise for looking terrifying having 10-0ed his group last out, including from me. Having checked the group I was half expecting a way more stacked group.
It’s remarkably similar, Serral in second, Special bottom, TIME going out 4th. A past his peak Inno making it out third and Bunny making up the remainder. .
There’s winning a group and winning games you’re expected to, and 10-0ing without looking remotely in trouble. Serral only broke sweat against Dark, it’s not like the rest of the games were tight 2-0s
The overhyping of Serral is something that irks me too, frequently but especially after a patchy year by his standards coming to Katowice and looking right on point, it’s certainly worth commenting on.
I mean Trap had an absolutely stellar year last year and bombed out of groups, it’s not a given to get through, much less sail through.
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United States33638 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
nah, I remember ppl hyping it hard for the three days until the playoffs
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On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
Man, you don't even have to go back to last year, people were talking about Dark 10-0ing his group literally five pages earlier in this very thread.
Anyway, here's some quotes from last year's thread that you don't remember:
On February 24 2021 03:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 03:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On February 24 2021 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark again incredibly far behind lol, he'll probably win this one after 40 minutes and keep the perfect score alive okay he somehow held. 10-0!
On February 24 2021 03:53 ShAd_1337 wrote:
PERFECT
On February 24 2021 03:54 Morbidius wrote:
10-0, imagine what Dark could achieve he played well like European Zergs!
On February 24 2021 09:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Dark! Damn, that 10-0!
And here's what the article about it had to say:
On February 25 2021 05:11 TL.net ESPORTS wrote:[big] <a href=" Dark" class="zicon" title="[More info on Liquipedia]">Dark</a> joined elite company in Group B of IEM Katowice 2021, becoming the first player to achieve a perfect 10-0 map score in the IEM World Championship since MMA in Season VI (2012).
So now that we've established our baseline for what unmemorable praise looks like, please show me what this major praise Serral has received here on TL.net is, that you find so excessive and annoying.
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On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year.
Going 10-0 at Katowice is no small feat, Dark was the first one to make it happen last year; I agree that their group was easier than 2021's but Serral still won every map.
As for people not caring that much about Dark's feat, I hope you are joking!
Everyone last year was already hyping Dark, after he went 10-0 it looked like him winning Katowice was a foregone conclusion.
It was indeed super annoying.
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France12953 Posts
Watching games live is so much more tiring than on streams from home, it’s impressive for players to play in such long groups (with jet lag no less), and for casters as well even with rotation
11 hour day was tough even though I didn’t cheer for any particular player, group D is gonna be brutal
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Canada8990 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:52 Poopi wrote:
Watching games live is so much more tiring than on streams from home, it’s impressive for players to play in such long groups (with jet lag no less), and for casters as well even with rotation
11 hour day was tough even though I didn’t cheer for any particular player, group D is gonna be brutal
We want some pictures!
(Well I want them)
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Peru10120 Posts
any recommended games? i will probably watch some of my favorite players but i dont want to miss the best games
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On February 25 2022 07:44 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:21 JJH777 wrote:
Dark 10-0d basically the same exact group last year and people found it impressive but didn't really care that much. I don't remember any major praise on stream or TL. I didn't hear the on stream talk but it's not surprising (annoyingly) that they are making a bigger deal out of it just because it's Serral doing it this year. Man, you don't even have to go back to last year, people were talking about Dark 10-0ing his group literally five pages earlier in this very thread. Anyway, here's some quotes from last year's thread that you don't remember: Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 03:47 Charoisaur wrote:On February 24 2021 03:43 TheLordofAwesome wrote:On February 24 2021 03:42 Charoisaur wrote:
Dark again incredibly far behind lol, he'll probably win this one after 40 minutes and keep the perfect score alive okay he somehow held. 10-0! Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 03:54 Morbidius wrote:
10-0, imagine what Dark could achieve he played well like European Zergs! Show nested quote +On February 24 2021 09:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
Congrats to Dark! Damn, that 10-0! And here's what the article about it had to say: Show nested quote +On February 25 2021 05:11 TL.net ESPORTS wrote:[big] <a href="Dark" class="zicon" title="[More info on Liquipedia]">Dark</a> joined elite company in Group B of IEM Katowice 2021, becoming the first player to achieve a perfect 10-0 map score in the IEM World Championship since MMA in Season VI (2012). So now that we've established our baseline for what unmemorable praise looks like, please show me what this major praise Serral has received here on TL.net is, that you find so excessive and annoying.
Fair enough, I can see that being considered major praise. I was wrong about Dark.
I never said I was annoyed by Serral praise on TL. I very rarely am. It's normally the stream and Reddit. I have not visited Reddit today and I didn't have the stream on at the time the complaint was made (which I already acknowledged) I was just remarking that I wasn't surprised to hear the casters were making a bigger deal about Serral's 10-0 because they always make a bigger deal about his results.
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On February 25 2022 08:16 Topin wrote:
any recommended games? i will probably watch some of my favorite players but i dont want to miss the best games
Serral vs TIME was good because it was dominating play in the match up. Dark vs Showtime was a memefest that is worth watching for the laughs.
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I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far
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On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far
Unsurprising that you would feel like you haven't seen him the whole tournament so far given that he hasn't played at all in the whole tournament so far.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On February 25 2022 07:28 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposeto win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on. I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium. And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around.
When was the last time foreign casters were not overhyping foreigners just because they're foreigners? They don't even try to pretend at this point. Sometimes when 2 Koreans play they even start talking about foreigners Just ignore it and not watch it if it's that's annoying for you.
Edit> e.g. I don't watch it, just check results.
On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far
prepare to be disappointed.
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Northern Ireland27041 Posts
On February 25 2022 08:58 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:28 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposeto win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on. I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium. And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around. When was the last time foreign casters were not overhyping foreigners just because they're foreigners? They don't even try to pretend at this point. Sometimes when 2 Koreans play they even start talking about foreigners Just ignore it and not watch it if it's that's annoying for you. Edit> e.g. I don't watch it, just check results. Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far prepare to be disappointed.
I don’t think today was bad at all for that, a lot of hype for the veteran Ryung and his run, across the 3 streams I was following.
As foreign hype goes today was pretty tolerable, I imagine it will slip into intolerable when Heromarine plays though.
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I'm really interested in how they pick the main-stage matches for Group D. The most hype matches would be Clem-Maru first, Clem-Reynor second, and then Maru-Reynor third. But I'm not sure they're going to want to do just 3 players for the first three matches.
But I hope they do lol - the hype levels would be off the charts. Can you imagine all of them right after one another?
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On February 25 2022 08:58 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 07:28 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:23 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 07:08 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 07:02 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:56 Vindicare605 wrote:On February 25 2022 06:51 Pandain wrote:On February 25 2022 06:44 Vindicare605 wrote:
I don't know why these dudes are being so smug about Serral 10-0'ing this group. He had one opponent with a shot at beating him and that's in ZvZ.
Dark only dropped 1 map to a player that wasn't Serral and that was TIME.
It was just a mismatched group, that was obvious the moment the groups were announced. I'd love to see Serral 10-0 Groups A or D. It's not an "omg no way!!!" moment but its impressive. It would be impressive if you replaced Serral with anyone and they went 10-0. I would be impressed if Maru did it or Rogue did it in the same group. SC2 is a game of volatility and even if you play people you are supposeto win against it's extremely common to still drop games here and there (case in point: Dark losing to Time). Considering how good Rogue looked against someone not named Solar (who is ELITE at ZvZ) I would not have been surprised if he went 10-0 or 9-1 again with the only person I can see beating him in the group being Dark. I mean it's literally case in point - Rogue DID lose to Solar. And Rogue DID lose a game to Neeb - and Dark DID lose a game to Time (and the series to Serral). I think you don't appreciate how even if someone is the clear favorite it's still super common to lose a game, and literally playing ten games and not losing one is impressive. Anyway, we don't really disagree holisticaly. It's impressive but the true tests are still ahead I mean I've already come to grips that this is yet another Katowice with imbalanced groups that seems to be par for the course with ESL tournaments which annoys me because so many of the results rely on bracket luck. What's eating at me right now is how smug the broadcasters were about Serral 10-0ing the group. No one with a brain is surprised he did that, that was expected unless Dark beat him. The second he 2-0'd Dark a 10-0 was expected. And this is just my general problem with the topic of Serral whenever he gets brought up. It's nothing he's doing or not doing, he's just out there killing nerds. It's this aggravating never ending praise that somehow is also highly defensive and self victimizing that surrounds him. Just let it be and let him go win his games. Save the praise for when he wins the tournament. He got an easy group and he did what was expected of him. We don't have to treat it like the end of the world as if it's game-changing or as if it's absolutely nothing - we can just say it's "impressive" and move on. I agree with you, but that's not what the broadcasters were doing. There's a point where we're just being sportsman awarding good play and then there's being insufferable fanboys especially when you have the public podium. And if you're going to insist on doing that at least be like Kaeleris who gives the same sort of love to every player and at least TRIES to balance it around. When was the last time foreign casters were not overhyping foreigners just because they're foreigners? They don't even try to pretend at this point. Sometimes when 2 Koreans play they even start talking about foreigners Just ignore it and not watch it if it's that's annoying for you. Edit> e.g. I don't watch it, just check results. Show nested quote +On February 25 2022 08:22 Pandain wrote:
I have to say - I can't wait for Maru tomorrow. I'm really expecting him to wreck face and I feel like I haven't seen him the whole tournament so far prepare to be disappointed.
Maru could either be 10-0 and give all “KR elitist” the fuel to burn, or get 2-3 and get barely miss the playoff. But dont forget, there is Ryung - the whisperer, around this time.
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Ryung's impressive run in IEM Katowice should be discussed some more. I think he is the first one from Ro36 manages to advances into playoff stage. Last year, no one from Ro36 is able to break into playoff stage.
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EPT
