My real question is: who is going to save Protoss at the highest level?
I hoped Trap had really stepped up after his recent titles but he evidently still doubts himself when he is on the biggest stages. Trap said he won't see him as a true champion until he wins Katowice or a Code S and it shows, he doesn't have the same confidence. He is still the biggest hope for Protoss in the near future.
At the moment, Protoss is living the biggest abstinence from Code S and World Championship titles in the history of Sc2; since Stats won Code S in 2017, Protoss collectively went 0-7 in Code S finals, lost once at BlizzCon and four times at Katowice(for what it counts, they also went 0-3 in WCS circuit finals). Zerg didn't win Code S for six years between 2013 and 2019 with a 0-8 record in the finals but at least they won five world championships in the same period.
It's clear that balance can't be the reason, ZvP was a big offender for a while but Protoss players managed to lose many finals they could have won and that they are favourite in.
I'm a little disheartened, I was seeing a Protoss eventually winning Code S after Trap was up 3-0.
On April 29 2021 21:32 La1 wrote: Felt like a huge throw from trap crushes 3 games and then does super risky dumb builds 3 times in a row and fails all of them..
game 4. cheese fail followed by throw game 5 . throw (stupid build and maru vs a standard maru build?) game 6. throw after catching the proxy game 7 failed scout BOW Win
and the final game? it's fucking maru.. HE ALWAYS PROXIES!
How have people not learnt this yet?
really really poor from trap.
You do realize Trap won 2 of his game because of "risky dumb builds" right? It was the Stasis trap and DT that deal enough damage to Maru that Trap got ahead and won. Had those been standard macro game with normal timing, Maru could have won. You dont get to call out player for failed cheese, but then acting like when he won he didnt win because of cheese.
On April 29 2021 21:32 La1 wrote: Felt like a huge throw from trap crushes 3 games and then does super risky dumb builds 3 times in a row and fails all of them..
game 4. cheese fail followed by throw game 5 . throw (stupid build and maru vs a standard maru build?) game 6. throw after catching the proxy game 7 failed scout BOW Win
and the final game? it's fucking maru.. HE ALWAYS PROXIES!
How have people not learnt this yet?
really really poor from trap.
You dont get to call out player for failed cheese, but then acting like when he won he didnt win because of cheese.
This.
The only game Trap won cleanly was Game 3, and that was a nearly perfect execution build for him on a map that was totally perfect for what he was trying to do. Seriously Romanticide is so good for Protoss blink play it disgusts me.
He got some lucky breaks to win Games 1 and 2 and Game 2 was as much of a build order win as Game 7 was for Maru, ok maybe not quite as much but close.
Maru was ahead in Game 1 slightly and threw it away to Stasis traps.
It was a back and forth series. Each player threw a game they should have won, (Game 1 for Maru, Game 6 for Trap) Each had a build order win (Game 2 for Trap, Game 7 for Maru) and then there was game 4 which was the closest game of the series.
That game was neck in neck and it honestly looked to me like Maru was dead but he BARELY managed to clutch that win.
It was a close series. The fact it ended on a 4-0 doesn't tell the whole story.
Protoss constantly cheesing is heartbreaking and frustrating for Terran players...why no sympathy? But people feel sad when a Terran manages to successfully proxy a Protoss? Does anyone else think this game has design problems?
On April 29 2021 21:32 La1 wrote: Felt like a huge throw from trap crushes 3 games and then does super risky dumb builds 3 times in a row and fails all of them..
game 4. cheese fail followed by throw game 5 . throw (stupid build and maru vs a standard maru build?) game 6. throw after catching the proxy game 7 failed scout BOW Win
and the final game? it's fucking maru.. HE ALWAYS PROXIES!
How have people not learnt this yet?
really really poor from trap.
You dont get to call out player for failed cheese, but then acting like when he won he didnt win because of cheese.
This.
The only game Trap won cleanly was Game 3, and that was a nearly perfect execution build for him on a map that was totally perfect for what he was trying to do. Seriously Romanticide is so good for Protoss blink play it disgusts me.
He got some lucky breaks to win Games 1 and 2 and Game 2 was as much of a build order win as Game 7 was for Maru, ok maybe not quite as much but close.
Maru was ahead in Game 1 slightly and threw it away to Stasis traps.
It was a back and forth series. Each player threw a game they should have won, (Game 1 for Maru, Game 6 for Trap) Each had a build order win (Game 2 for Trap, Game 7 for Maru) and then there was game 4 which was the closest game of the series.
That game was neck in neck and it honestly looked to me like Maru was dead but he BARELY managed to clutch that win.
It was a close series. The fact it ended on a 4-0 doesn't tell the whole story.
I wouldn't say G1 was a cheese. It was Maru's throw, he walked into 2 stasis traps before. he has seen 3rd on the nat, so he should have expected another one on the third.
On April 29 2021 21:32 La1 wrote: Felt like a huge throw from trap crushes 3 games and then does super risky dumb builds 3 times in a row and fails all of them..
game 4. cheese fail followed by throw game 5 . throw (stupid build and maru vs a standard maru build?) game 6. throw after catching the proxy game 7 failed scout BOW Win
and the final game? it's fucking maru.. HE ALWAYS PROXIES!
How have people not learnt this yet?
really really poor from trap.
You dont get to call out player for failed cheese, but then acting like when he won he didnt win because of cheese.
This.
The only game Trap won cleanly was Game 3, and that was a nearly perfect execution build for him on a map that was totally perfect for what he was trying to do. Seriously Romanticide is so good for Protoss blink play it disgusts me.
He got some lucky breaks to win Games 1 and 2 and Game 2 was as much of a build order win as Game 7 was for Maru, ok maybe not quite as much but close.
Maru was ahead in Game 1 slightly and threw it away to Stasis traps.
It was a back and forth series. Each player threw a game they should have won, (Game 1 for Maru, Game 6 for Trap) Each had a build order win (Game 2 for Trap, Game 7 for Maru) and then there was game 4 which was the closest game of the series.
That game was neck in neck and it honestly looked to me like Maru was dead but he BARELY managed to clutch that win.
It was a close series. The fact it ended on a 4-0 doesn't tell the whole story.
I wouldn't say G1 was a cheese. It was Maru's throw, he walked into 2 stasis traps before. he has seen 3rd on the nat, so he should have expected another one on the third.
I never said it was a cheese, I said it was a Maru throw and a lucky break for Trap.
On April 29 2021 21:32 La1 wrote: and the final game? it's fucking maru.. HE ALWAYS PROXIES!
How have people not learnt this yet?
really really poor from trap.
Trap was scouting for the proxy. He just got unlucky and not diligent enough perhaps. Not poor by any means, just an unlucky BO loss. Same as game 2 was BO loss for Maru.
The only game we could say was really poor from Trap was game 6, he just threw that with horrible DT control. And perhaps he could have chosen a different strat in game5, but aside from that, they both had their good and bad moments and Maru in the end was more clutch, more lucky, and stronger mentally.
On April 29 2021 21:32 La1 wrote: and the final game? it's fucking maru.. HE ALWAYS PROXIES!
How have people not learnt this yet?
really really poor from trap.
Trap was scouting for the proxy. He just got unlucky and not diligent enough perhaps. Not poor by any means, just an unlucky BO loss. Same as game 2 was BO loss for Maru.
The only game we could say was really poor from Trap was game 6, he just threw that with horrible DT control. And perhaps he could have chosen a different strat in game5, but aside from that, they both had their good and bad moments and Maru in the end was more clutch, more lucky, and stronger mentally.
Interestingly Rogue checked this position as the first position on this map vs Dream. Seems like this corner is very trendy
I would've thought the comeback victory in G1 and shutdown of Maru's WM/hellion/banshee harass in G3? would've given Trap the confidence to play standard once he had a 3-0 lead. Never like when players try to cheese every game to close... seems like that's the best way to get reverse swept. (Hindsight obv 20/20 so who knows if it was the best call)
On April 29 2021 21:33 Xain0n wrote: My real question is: who is going to save Protoss at the highest level?
I hoped Trap had really stepped up after his recent titles but he evidently still doubts himself when he is on the biggest stages. Trap said he won't see him as a true champion until he wins Katowice or a Code S and it shows, he doesn't have the same confidence. He is still the biggest hope for Protoss in the near future.
At the moment, Protoss is living the biggest abstinence from Code S and World Championship titles in the history of Sc2; since Stats won Code S in 2017, Protoss collectively went 0-7 in Code S finals, lost once at BlizzCon and four times at Katowice(for what it counts, they also went 0-3 in WCS circuit finals). Zerg didn't win Code S for six years between 2013 and 2019 with a 0-8 record in the finals but at least they won five world championships in the same period.
It's clear that balance can't be the reason, ZvP was a big offender for a while but Protoss players managed to lose many finals they could have won and that they are favourite in.
I'm a little disheartened, I was seeing a Protoss eventually winning Code S after Trap was up 3-0.
At the smae time protoss is massively overpopulating gm, so it's more likely some changes (nerfs) are needed for toss at that lvl while noit hurting the top toss that aren't perfroming that hot anyways. Doesn't look like something that's gonna happen with the current "team" "working" on sc2.
On April 29 2021 21:33 Xain0n wrote: My real question is: who is going to save Protoss at the highest level?
I hoped Trap had really stepped up after his recent titles but he evidently still doubts himself when he is on the biggest stages. Trap said he won't see him as a true champion until he wins Katowice or a Code S and it shows, he doesn't have the same confidence. He is still the biggest hope for Protoss in the near future.
At the moment, Protoss is living the biggest abstinence from Code S and World Championship titles in the history of Sc2; since Stats won Code S in 2017, Protoss collectively went 0-7 in Code S finals, lost once at BlizzCon and four times at Katowice(for what it counts, they also went 0-3 in WCS circuit finals). Zerg didn't win Code S for six years between 2013 and 2019 with a 0-8 record in the finals but at least they won five world championships in the same period.
It's clear that balance can't be the reason, ZvP was a big offender for a while but Protoss players managed to lose many finals they could have won and that they are favourite in.
I'm a little disheartened, I was seeing a Protoss eventually winning Code S after Trap was up 3-0.
At the smae time protoss is massively overpopulating gm, so it's more likely some changes (nerfs) are needed for toss at that lvl while noit hurting the top toss that aren't perfroming that hot anyways. Doesn't look like something that's gonna happen with the current "team" "working" on sc2.
Because Protoss is great for BO1 and it's just ladder, pros care more about BOx :-)
great series but God it must be heartbreaking for Trap. Still, I was strangely confident Maru was going to pull ahead even at 0-2 (not at 0-3, I'll admit that) because his control looked crisp. In the end yeah, it's tough not to play Protoss on ladder, but it's tough to try and win with Protoss at the pro level.
Anyway, it's hard not to be hyped for Maru getting G5L or Rogue keeping his insane bo7 record unbroken and tying Nestea. This is probably the finals I'll be yearning for the most in recent times.
On April 29 2021 22:02 machinus wrote: Protoss constantly cheesing is heartbreaking and frustrating for Terran players...why no sympathy? But people feel sad when a Terran manages to successfully proxy a Protoss? Does anyone else think this game has design problems?
Agreed. I hope in the next balance patch, Blizzard gives Terran more aggressive/cheese options against Protoss.
On April 29 2021 22:33 darklycid wrote: At the smae time protoss is massively overpopulating gm, so it's more likely some changes (nerfs) are needed for toss at
True. The number of Protoss in GM is astonishing these days.
On April 29 2021 21:33 Xain0n wrote: My real question is: who is going to save Protoss at the highest level?
I hoped Trap had really stepped up after his recent titles but he evidently still doubts himself when he is on the biggest stages. Trap said he won't see him as a true champion until he wins Katowice or a Code S and it shows, he doesn't have the same confidence. He is still the biggest hope for Protoss in the near future.
At the moment, Protoss is living the biggest abstinence from Code S and World Championship titles in the history of Sc2; since Stats won Code S in 2017, Protoss collectively went 0-7 in Code S finals, lost once at BlizzCon and four times at Katowice(for what it counts, they also went 0-3 in WCS circuit finals). Zerg didn't win Code S for six years between 2013 and 2019 with a 0-8 record in the finals but at least they won five world championships in the same period.
It's clear that balance can't be the reason, ZvP was a big offender for a while but Protoss players managed to lose many finals they could have won and that they are favourite in.
I'm a little disheartened, I was seeing a Protoss eventually winning Code S after Trap was up 3-0.
All of their best players save Trap and sOs are in the military. The reason Maru can remain so dominant is because he's the youngest player in the tournament because he's been playing professionally since he was goddamn 12. lol.
And as everyone must be aware there is not a lot of upcoming young talent in Korea these days for SC2 so it's unlikely any new Clems or Reynors are gonna show up. We'll have to look to the foreign scene for that.
In the meantime put your faith in Trap or don't, and then wait for Classic, herO and Stats to get back from the military.
On April 29 2021 21:33 Xain0n wrote: My real question is: who is going to save Protoss at the highest level?
I hoped Trap had really stepped up after his recent titles but he evidently still doubts himself when he is on the biggest stages. Trap said he won't see him as a true champion until he wins Katowice or a Code S and it shows, he doesn't have the same confidence. He is still the biggest hope for Protoss in the near future.
At the moment, Protoss is living the biggest abstinence from Code S and World Championship titles in the history of Sc2; since Stats won Code S in 2017, Protoss collectively went 0-7 in Code S finals, lost once at BlizzCon and five times at Katowice(for what it counts, they also went 0-3 in WCS circuit finals). Zerg didn't win Code S for six years between 2013 and 2019 with a 0-8 record in the finals but at least they won five world championships in the same period.
It's clear that balance can't be the reason, ZvP was a big offender for a while but Protoss players managed to lose many finals they could have won and that they are favourite in.
I'm a little disheartened, I was seeing a Protoss eventually winning Code S after Trap was up 3-0.
All of their best players save Trap and sOs are in the military. The reason Maru can remain so dominant is because he's the youngest player in the tournament because he's been playing professionally since he was goddamn 12. lol.
And as everyone must be aware there is not a lot of upcoming young talent in Korea these days for SC2 so it's unlikely any new Clems or Reynors are gonna show up. We'll have to look to the foreign scene for that.
In the meantime put your faith in Trap or don't, and then wait for Classic, herO and Stats to get back from the military.
The Protoss players you are speaking of are the same who have been collectively unable to win the titles I am speaking of: here's a list of who lost at Katowice(2xStats,2xZest,Classic), at BlizzCon(Stats) and in Code S(2xStats,2xTrap,sOs,Zest,Classic) in the last four years. The same players who carried the flag of Aiur in HoTS(with Stats replacing Rain) failed to do so during LoTV.
Trap is of course the biggest hope, he has everything to win a Code S; maybe Zoun can improve further and maybe among the young foreign Protoss there is the future savior of the race(MaxPax seems the most promising right now) but I really don't know what's needed to see Protoss triumph again at the highest level, the meta seems favorable right at the moment(like it was in 2018 but Maru and Serral are less scary than they were).
Also Maru definitely didn't "remain dominant", he seems to be enjoying a resurgence this year; he never ceased to be a top player but he was very far from his apex.
Also Maru definitely didn't "remain dominant", he seems to be enjoying a resurgence this year; he never ceased to be a top player but he was very far from his apex.
Last year Maru won a ST, KoB, get to the Final of GSL code S, Asus RoG and top 4 in TSL 6. Other than TY and Rogue, I dont see any Korean had a more successful year than him. And that was him having a bad shoulder throughout the year. Meawhile, Serral, who has not won a mega big tournament since winning the Blizzcon in 2018, also fell off from his throne but nobody really feel he was out of it. I would love to see a Grand Finals match up with between these 2 in some global events this year, after dropping all the new competitors, and light up that hype among the fans.
Also Maru definitely didn't "remain dominant", he seems to be enjoying a resurgence this year; he never ceased to be a top player but he was very far from his apex.
Last year Maru won a ST, KoB, get to the Final of GSL code S, Asus RoG and top 4 in TSL 6. Other than TY and Rogue, I dont see any Korean had a more successful year than him. And that was him having a bad shoulder throughout the year. Meawhile, Serral, who has not won a mega big tournament since winning the Blizzcon in 2018, also fell off from his throne but nobody really feel he was out of it. I would love to see a Grand Finals match up with between these 2 in some global events this year, after dropping all the new competitors, and light up that hype among the fans.
And you would call that "dominance"? I'm bored of listing Serral's accomplishements in 2019 but there were plenty of reasons for considering him overall the best in the world, or at least the player who had the highest chance of winning any tournament he would have entered. Serral was not dominant in 2020 despite still being at the very top, I disagree on the fact nobody recognized that.
EPT
