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On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines  Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only.
The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late
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TY vs INno is supposed to be the final, but PartinG vs Cure would be the best.
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On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only.
Conversely pros might be better at dropping mines.
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On May 23 2020 15:26 DieuCure wrote:
INno is going to be like a cake for Cure.
Inno thrashes online Cure in TvT all the time. Cure is literally the player he beats up the most according to aligulac.
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wow artosis is brutal....saying he doesnt want to see cure win one after so much hard work and years of falling short lol
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On May 23 2020 15:28 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:26 DieuCure wrote:
INno is going to be like a cake for Cure. Inno thrashes online Cure in TvT all the time.
This is the new and improved offline Cure though who actually prepares for his GSL matches and does smart things.
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On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late
Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in.
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On May 23 2020 15:29 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:28 pvsnp wrote:On May 23 2020 15:26 DieuCure wrote:
INno is going to be like a cake for Cure. Inno thrashes online Cure in TvT all the time. This is the new and improved offline Cure though who actually prepares for his GSL matches and does smart things.
I dunno, his play today was competent but not amazing. Still more impressed by online Cure. And in any case, Cure is a super textbook macro guy; it feels like the new and improved Inno will run rings around him. Something something double proxy BC.
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On May 23 2020 15:28 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:26 DieuCure wrote:
INno is going to be like a cake for Cure. Inno thrashes online Cure in TvT all the time. Cure is literally the player he beats up the most according to aligulac.
According to the plan !
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On May 23 2020 15:29 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in.
...no? If someone can execute a mine drop as well as the pros then they wouldn't be a lower level player.
Dropping mines isn't rocket science, but it's hardly as simple as that. There's burrowing/unburrowing, focus firing, spreading the mines, distracting the opponent and so on.
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Ultimately this season might be what would have happened in GSL 2017 S1 if TY and Inno didn't both get reverse swept in the Ro8
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In the End all comes together, still 3 Terrans in Ro4, it s just PartinG instead of Dark and TY instead of Maru 
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On May 23 2020 15:29 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in.
Yeah compared to what PartinG did to this game 5, which was mine drop that wasn't spotted and then the game was over. It is not too good for spectators, it doesn't get people excited the right way (but in "oh no, hopefully he isn't gonna lose because of this" -way).
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On May 23 2020 15:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:29 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in. ...no? If someone can execute a mine drop as well as the pros then they wouldn't be a lower level player. Dropping mines isn't rocket science, but it's hardly as simple as that. There's burrowing/unburrowing, focus firing, spreading the mines, distracting the opponent and so on.
Yeah except the mine drops I'm talking about having nothing to do with burrow/unburrow micro, focus fire spam, distractions etc. I'm literally just refering to the standard mine drop that occur when (pretty much) nothing is happening on the map. It's shocking to see even the best protoss lose their mineral lines to it.
(Irrelevant, but even those micro tricks are things can be done easily by low level players, there's nothing mechanically demanding about it, the real difference between noob and pro is that the pro will be doing other actions at the same time).
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On May 23 2020 15:29 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in.
You can do it but you likely don't do it every game, which impacts on how much damage you do overall. I'm sure there are examples of pros not doing it very well also, it's just less frequent. I don't think we're disagreeing
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On May 23 2020 15:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:29 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in. ...no? If someone can execute a mine drop as well as the pros then they wouldn't be a lower level player. Dropping mines isn't rocket science, but it's hardly as simple as that. There's burrowing/unburrowing, focus firing, spreading the mines, distracting the opponent and so on.
Maybe some of players that would be lower level aren't lower level because of efficiency of mine drop. Even one successful mine drop basically ends pvt if it happens in first 10 minutes (while not having too much risk to dropping terran), and this game just showed it does happen at the highest level too. It doesn't even matter if it comes 30 seconds or a minute later that it came in that game 5, results is pretty much the same.
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Gotta say that even tho we have 3 terrans in the ro4 i don't think terran is op, they're riding a neat meta advantage currently imo. But some terrans still whine like their race is the weakest and in dire need of buffs, which i'd say is currently very much not the case -
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On May 23 2020 15:40 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On May 23 2020 15:29 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in. ...no? If someone can execute a mine drop as well as the pros then they wouldn't be a lower level player. Dropping mines isn't rocket science, but it's hardly as simple as that. There's burrowing/unburrowing, focus firing, spreading the mines, distracting the opponent and so on. Yeah except the mine drops I'm talking about having nothing to do with burrow/unburrow micro, focus fire spam, distractions etc. I'm literally just refering to the standard mine drop that occur when (pretty much) nothing is happening on the map. It's shocking to see even the best protoss lose their mineral lines to it. (Irrelevant, but even those micro tricks are things can be done easily by low level players, there's nothing mechanically demanding about it, the real difference between noob and pro is that the pro will be doing other actions at the same time).
It's quite rarely the standard first mine drop that does significant damage though. It's just that the terrans keep on dropping, and given how cheap widow mines are one of the drops gets there eventually.
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On May 23 2020 15:34 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2020 15:29 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:27 Nebuchad wrote:On May 23 2020 15:25 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:19 Elentos wrote:On May 23 2020 15:18 Fango wrote:On May 23 2020 15:17 Waxangel wrote:Trap is definitely the new Stats.... in terms of losing probes to mines Or the new sOs, or new Dear. Seriously it's insane how much damage even the best protoss take to widow mines They just take almost no damage most games but of all the games we see the ones where they get rekt. Even at my level I have to do a lot of mine drops to get one that kills 12 workers. There's probably a memory bias sure, but the fact it happens so often to begin with is strange. Maybe players at lower ranks are just more likely to be watching their main base 90% of the time, whereas pros tend to go back to hit macro only. The terran is also executing better. The drop was invisible until last second and came from a weird angle. And despite that Trap was barely too late Anyone can execute a mine drop pretty much as well as the pros though. Lower level players are more likely to hit it later/fall behind in macro/not react to things elsewhere on the map, sure. But you could teach someone who doesn't play sc2 to click a medivac behind someones mineral line and boost it in. ...no? If someone can execute a mine drop as well as the pros then they wouldn't be a lower level player. Dropping mines isn't rocket science, but it's hardly as simple as that. There's burrowing/unburrowing, focus firing, spreading the mines, distracting the opponent and so on.
Maybe some of players that would be lower level aren't lower level because of efficiency of mine drop. Even one successful mine drop basically ends pvt if it happens in first 10 minutes (while not having too much risk to dropping terran), and this game just showed it does happen at the highest level too. It doesn't even matter if it comes 30 seconds or a minute later than it came in that game 5, result is pretty much the same.
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On May 23 2020 15:45 darklycid wrote:Gotta say that even tho we have 3 terrans in the ro4 i don't think terran is op, they're riding a neat meta advantage currently imo. But some terrans still whine like their race is the weakest and in dire need of buffs, which i'd say is currently very much not the case -
I wish the power of the #TerranPatch and #TerranMaps actually reached my ladder games though and not just the pros I watch
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EPT
