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On March 03 2020 06:15 MarianoSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 05:59 Monster3 wrote:
Rogue:
Tier 1 - 1x Blizzcon, 2x IEM Katowice
Tier 2 - 1x GSL
Tier 3 - 1x GSL ST, 1x IEM
Maru:
Tier 1: None
Tier 2: 6x GSL (including OSL and SSL here)
Tier 3:1x WESG
Serral:
Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon
Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World
Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion.
Oh it's even better that he says GSL vs the World is on the same level as code S. This 11 post guy is truly something special.
Yo Xainon this is how I see most Serral Stans. This is the kind of company you keep. You should regulate on him because he makes you look bad rofl.
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On March 03 2020 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 05:36 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 03:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2020 17:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 16:01 Harris1st wrote:Not sure what y'all are arguing about? ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/fxUMPqQ.jpg) Top 4 of the world. End of discussion. Easy  I'm arguing because Serral stans insist he's still the best in the world. It's never been true, it's not true now. People just WANT it to be true because he's from Europe instead of Korea. That's also a truth that's been true for a long time. His fans make excuses, use irrational logic, and just generally are toxic because he's not Korean. You have received reasonable answers and statistics and you have kept spewing your opinions like they were facts. Serral is still undoubtly among the best players in the world, he is the most consistent for sure. Not recognizing Serral has been THE best is just delusion. He was without any doubt in the second half of 2018 and around August/September last year. In reality, you cannot accept it because Serral is not korean. I've never once said that Serral isn't a top level player. I've said as much in numerous comments. If you're gonna change your opinion from "Serral is the best" to "Serral is a top level player" then I've done my job. Serral gets treated differently than other top level players, people consider him a GOAT when he's barely at the top level in his own era let alone across every era. He gets that special treatment for two reasons. He's a foreigner and benefits from recency bias. If the conversation shifts to that he's simply a top level talent, among the best rather than THE best, I'll have done my job and I'll stop complaining. will find he's certainly not getting this special treatment Show nested quote + No player in Sc2 has won so much in so little time and the fact he has reached at worst a ro8 in two years is unprecedent;
There you go again. WCS is by itself a fucking welfare title. It's rigged to be more important than it should be. Serral wins WCS titles, he wins vs foreigners NOT top Koreans. He's the only one that gets put in GOAT conversations without winning vs top Koreans. He does that because he's European. No Korean player would get that kind of love. Serral is protected by region locking, I've said it again and again and I'll say it some more. The longer Region Locking exists, the more Serral benefits. I will counter that shit, for as long as I can.
I don't think you can be considered GOAT without wining a GSL. Wasn't always the knock of Taeja? I remember his high placing on the TL GOAT ranking being controversial "liquid bias" because he never won a GSL despite frequently bodying the current GSL finalist in weekenders. Frankly, the argument holds weight. The GSL is the tournament with the most skilled players in the toughest format.
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Canada8988 Posts
On March 03 2020 06:17 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 06:15 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:59 Monster3 wrote:
Rogue:
Tier 1 - 1x Blizzcon, 2x IEM Katowice
Tier 2 - 1x GSL
Tier 3 - 1x GSL ST, 1x IEM
Maru:
Tier 1: None
Tier 2: 6x GSL (including OSL and SSL here)
Tier 3:1x WESG
Serral:
Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon
Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World
Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion. Oh it's even better that he says GSL vs the World is on the same level as code S. This 11 post guy is truly something special. Yo Xainon this is how I see most Serral Stans. This is the kind of company you keep. You should regulate on him because he makes you look bad rofl.
IDK if "this is the kind of company you keep" has an adequate place in an online disagreement about who's the best video game player. 
Sound like something I'd say to someone who frequent drug dealers and pimp.
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Guys let's not treat Monster3 as public enemy No1. Yes obviously regular GSLs should be considered highest tier tournaments but he even says so himself in the last sentence he posted:
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
His post count also shouldn't matter.
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On March 03 2020 06:44 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 06:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 03 2020 06:15 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:59 Monster3 wrote:
Rogue:
Tier 1 - 1x Blizzcon, 2x IEM Katowice
Tier 2 - 1x GSL
Tier 3 - 1x GSL ST, 1x IEM
Maru:
Tier 1: None
Tier 2: 6x GSL (including OSL and SSL here)
Tier 3:1x WESG
Serral:
Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon
Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World
Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion. Oh it's even better that he says GSL vs the World is on the same level as code S. This 11 post guy is truly something special. Yo Xainon this is how I see most Serral Stans. This is the kind of company you keep. You should regulate on him because he makes you look bad rofl. IDK if "this is the kind of company you keep" has an adequate place in an online disagreement about who's the best video game player. Sound like something I'd say to someone who frequent drug dealers and pimp.
That was intentionally antagonistic. You're right, and I agree with you.
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On March 03 2020 06:45 Penev wrote:Guys let's not treat Monster3 as public enemy No1. Yes obviously regular GSLs should be considered highest tier tournaments but he even says so himself in the last sentence he posted: Show nested quote +And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral. His post count also shouldn't matter.
He still made the argument, and the argument was complete dirt.
So let's call it what it is.
He put thought into something completely false. I just did the natural thing and call it out for what it was.
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On March 03 2020 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 05:36 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 03:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2020 17:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 16:01 Harris1st wrote:Not sure what y'all are arguing about? Top 4 of the world. End of discussion. Easy I'm arguing because Serral stans insist he's still the best in the world. It's never been true, it's not true now. People just WANT it to be true because he's from Europe instead of Korea. That's also a truth that's been true for a long time. His fans make excuses, use irrational logic, and just generally are toxic because he's not Korean. You have received reasonable answers and statistics and you have kept spewing your opinions like they were facts. Serral is still undoubtly among the best players in the world, he is the most consistent for sure. Not recognizing Serral has been THE best is just delusion. He was without any doubt in the second half of 2018 and around August/September last year. In reality, you cannot accept it because Serral is not korean. I've never once said that Serral isn't a top level player. I've said as much in numerous comments. If you're gonna change your opinion from "Serral is the best" to "Serral is a top level player" then I've done my job. Serral gets treated differently than other top level players, people consider him a GOAT when he's barely at the top level in his own era let alone across every era. He gets that special treatment for two reasons. He's a foreigner and benefits from recency bias. If the conversation shifts to that he's simply a top level talent, among the best rather than THE best, I'll have done my job and I'll stop complaining. will find he's certainly not getting this special treatment Show nested quote + No player in Sc2 has won so much in so little time and the fact he has reached at worst a ro8 in two years is unprecedent;
There you go again. WCS is by itself a fucking welfare title. It's rigged to be more important than it should be. Serral wins WCS titles, he wins vs foreigners NOT top Koreans. He's the only one that gets put in GOAT conversations without winning vs top Koreans. He does that because he's European. No Korean player would get that kind of love. Serral is protected by region locking, I've said it again and again and I'll say it some more. The longer Region Locking exists, the more Serral benefits. I will counter that shit, for as long as I can.
I really hope you are not reading what I am writing; if you are, you are very wrong. And you don't need to hang out with anyone to look bad, judging from your posts.
Over the last two days, I already made clear that since the second half of 2018 Serral has been winning alot against top koreans(42-9, go look at the list to check the names of his opponents), that he won 6 tournaments starring strong koreans(guess what, against top koreans!) and that he has made at least top8 in the last 13 international tournaments(I repeat it again, with koreans).
In conclusion, Serral does win against koreans and wins titles over them.
Spare me your opinions on WCS and region locking, I will never agree with them; In any of case, I did not consider Serral's results in WCS.
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Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On March 03 2020 06:17 Vindicare605 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 06:15 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:59 Monster3 wrote:
Rogue:
Tier 1 - 1x Blizzcon, 2x IEM Katowice
Tier 2 - 1x GSL
Tier 3 - 1x GSL ST, 1x IEM
Maru:
Tier 1: None
Tier 2: 6x GSL (including OSL and SSL here)
Tier 3:1x WESG
Serral:
Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon
Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World
Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion. Oh it's even better that he says GSL vs the World is on the same level as code S. This 11 post guy is truly something special. Yo Xainon this is how I see most Serral Stans. This is the kind of company you keep. You should regulate on him because he makes you look bad rofl.
Almost everyone looks like a myopic idiot in this discussion so maybe I’d calm it with the condescension.
Do we really fucking need this sub-topic every single tournament thread? It’s interesting to have the occasional time but Jesus H Christ
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On March 03 2020 05:59 Monster3 wrote:
Rogue:
Tier 1 - 1x Blizzcon, 2x IEM Katowice
Tier 2 - 1x GSL
Tier 3 - 1x GSL ST, 1x IEM
Maru:
Tier 1: None
Tier 2: 6x GSL (including OSL and SSL here)
Tier 3:1x WESG
Serral:
Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon
Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World
Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
these tiers make no sense
Blizzcon gives charity seeds for foreigners to be half the tournament along with giving the top foreigner a very good seeding just because of WCS, and the process of qualification means you get a lot of players who were hot at the beginning of the year but cooled off towards the end, and it's only a 16 person tournament
GSL Code S should be tier 1 for sure, it's AT LEAST as hard as Katowice
GSL vs the World wasn't even able to qualify for giving out WCS points lmao, half the players are invites and the other half of the players are fucking fan votes, and it's only 8 koreans with 8 spots gifted to foreigners, and again it's only a 16 person tournament, definitely a tier 3
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On March 03 2020 06:15 MarianoSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 05:59 Monster3 wrote:
Rogue:
Tier 1 - 1x Blizzcon, 2x IEM Katowice
Tier 2 - 1x GSL
Tier 3 - 1x GSL ST, 1x IEM
Maru:
Tier 1: None
Tier 2: 6x GSL (including OSL and SSL here)
Tier 3:1x WESG
Serral:
Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon
Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World
Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion.
ok I certainly don't think Serral is the GOAT, probably around 6-7ish but if he won 4-5 more Blizzcon/Katowice that would be insane and totally change things
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On March 03 2020 07:06 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:36 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 03:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2020 17:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 16:01 Harris1st wrote:Not sure what y'all are arguing about? Top 4 of the world. End of discussion. Easy I'm arguing because Serral stans insist he's still the best in the world. It's never been true, it's not true now. People just WANT it to be true because he's from Europe instead of Korea. That's also a truth that's been true for a long time. His fans make excuses, use irrational logic, and just generally are toxic because he's not Korean. You have received reasonable answers and statistics and you have kept spewing your opinions like they were facts. Serral is still undoubtly among the best players in the world, he is the most consistent for sure. Not recognizing Serral has been THE best is just delusion. He was without any doubt in the second half of 2018 and around August/September last year. In reality, you cannot accept it because Serral is not korean. I've never once said that Serral isn't a top level player. I've said as much in numerous comments. If you're gonna change your opinion from "Serral is the best" to "Serral is a top level player" then I've done my job. Serral gets treated differently than other top level players, people consider him a GOAT when he's barely at the top level in his own era let alone across every era. He gets that special treatment for two reasons. He's a foreigner and benefits from recency bias. If the conversation shifts to that he's simply a top level talent, among the best rather than THE best, I'll have done my job and I'll stop complaining. will find he's certainly not getting this special treatment No player in Sc2 has won so much in so little time and the fact he has reached at worst a ro8 in two years is unprecedent;
There you go again. WCS is by itself a fucking welfare title. It's rigged to be more important than it should be. Serral wins WCS titles, he wins vs foreigners NOT top Koreans. He's the only one that gets put in GOAT conversations without winning vs top Koreans. He does that because he's European. No Korean player would get that kind of love. Serral is protected by region locking, I've said it again and again and I'll say it some more. The longer Region Locking exists, the more Serral benefits. I will counter that shit, for as long as I can. I really hope you are not reading what I am writing; if you are, you are very wrong. And you don't need to hang out with anyone to look bad, judging from your posts. Over the last two days, I already made clear that since the second half of 2018 Serral has been winning alot against top koreans(42-9, go look at the list to check the names of his opponents), that he won 6 tournaments starring strong koreans(guess what, against top koreans!) and that he has made at least top8 in the last 13 international tournaments(I repeat it again, with koreans). In conclusion, Serral does win against koreans and wins titles over them. Spare me your opinions on WCS and region locking, I will never agree with them; In any of case, I did not consider Serral's results in WCS.
You said no player has won this much in so little time which is objectively false if you don't consider WCS titles (which you shouldn't.) TaeJa has won more tournaments in the same amount of time.
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On March 03 2020 08:34 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 07:06 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:36 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 03:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2020 17:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 16:01 Harris1st wrote:Not sure what y'all are arguing about? Top 4 of the world. End of discussion. Easy I'm arguing because Serral stans insist he's still the best in the world. It's never been true, it's not true now. People just WANT it to be true because he's from Europe instead of Korea. That's also a truth that's been true for a long time. His fans make excuses, use irrational logic, and just generally are toxic because he's not Korean. You have received reasonable answers and statistics and you have kept spewing your opinions like they were facts. Serral is still undoubtly among the best players in the world, he is the most consistent for sure. Not recognizing Serral has been THE best is just delusion. He was without any doubt in the second half of 2018 and around August/September last year. In reality, you cannot accept it because Serral is not korean. I've never once said that Serral isn't a top level player. I've said as much in numerous comments. If you're gonna change your opinion from "Serral is the best" to "Serral is a top level player" then I've done my job. Serral gets treated differently than other top level players, people consider him a GOAT when he's barely at the top level in his own era let alone across every era. He gets that special treatment for two reasons. He's a foreigner and benefits from recency bias. If the conversation shifts to that he's simply a top level talent, among the best rather than THE best, I'll have done my job and I'll stop complaining. will find he's certainly not getting this special treatment No player in Sc2 has won so much in so little time and the fact he has reached at worst a ro8 in two years is unprecedent;
There you go again. WCS is by itself a fucking welfare title. It's rigged to be more important than it should be. Serral wins WCS titles, he wins vs foreigners NOT top Koreans. He's the only one that gets put in GOAT conversations without winning vs top Koreans. He does that because he's European. No Korean player would get that kind of love. Serral is protected by region locking, I've said it again and again and I'll say it some more. The longer Region Locking exists, the more Serral benefits. I will counter that shit, for as long as I can. I really hope you are not reading what I am writing; if you are, you are very wrong. And you don't need to hang out with anyone to look bad, judging from your posts. Over the last two days, I already made clear that since the second half of 2018 Serral has been winning alot against top koreans(42-9, go look at the list to check the names of his opponents), that he won 6 tournaments starring strong koreans(guess what, against top koreans!) and that he has made at least top8 in the last 13 international tournaments(I repeat it again, with koreans). In conclusion, Serral does win against koreans and wins titles over them. Spare me your opinions on WCS and region locking, I will never agree with them; In any of case, I did not consider Serral's results in WCS. You said no player has won this much in so little time which is objectively false if you don't consider WCS titles (which you shouldn't.) TaeJa has won more tournaments in the same amount of time.
Serral and TaeJa both won 11 premier titles but Serral did so in 22 months to TaeJa's 24.
Of course I do count WCS! I was omitting them from the stats I presented to underline that Serral won indeed against koreans, since Vindicare was saying the opponents.
Weird that you mention TaeJa, I was pretty sure you were convinced his accomplishments weren't that relevant since he won 4 Dreamhacks, 3 HSC, no GSL tournaments and no World Championships.
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On March 03 2020 09:12 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 08:34 Charoisaur wrote:On March 03 2020 07:06 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:36 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 03:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2020 17:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 16:01 Harris1st wrote:Not sure what y'all are arguing about? Top 4 of the world. End of discussion. Easy I'm arguing because Serral stans insist he's still the best in the world. It's never been true, it's not true now. People just WANT it to be true because he's from Europe instead of Korea. That's also a truth that's been true for a long time. His fans make excuses, use irrational logic, and just generally are toxic because he's not Korean. You have received reasonable answers and statistics and you have kept spewing your opinions like they were facts. Serral is still undoubtly among the best players in the world, he is the most consistent for sure. Not recognizing Serral has been THE best is just delusion. He was without any doubt in the second half of 2018 and around August/September last year. In reality, you cannot accept it because Serral is not korean. I've never once said that Serral isn't a top level player. I've said as much in numerous comments. If you're gonna change your opinion from "Serral is the best" to "Serral is a top level player" then I've done my job. Serral gets treated differently than other top level players, people consider him a GOAT when he's barely at the top level in his own era let alone across every era. He gets that special treatment for two reasons. He's a foreigner and benefits from recency bias. If the conversation shifts to that he's simply a top level talent, among the best rather than THE best, I'll have done my job and I'll stop complaining. will find he's certainly not getting this special treatment No player in Sc2 has won so much in so little time and the fact he has reached at worst a ro8 in two years is unprecedent;
There you go again. WCS is by itself a fucking welfare title. It's rigged to be more important than it should be. Serral wins WCS titles, he wins vs foreigners NOT top Koreans. He's the only one that gets put in GOAT conversations without winning vs top Koreans. He does that because he's European. No Korean player would get that kind of love. Serral is protected by region locking, I've said it again and again and I'll say it some more. The longer Region Locking exists, the more Serral benefits. I will counter that shit, for as long as I can. I really hope you are not reading what I am writing; if you are, you are very wrong. And you don't need to hang out with anyone to look bad, judging from your posts. Over the last two days, I already made clear that since the second half of 2018 Serral has been winning alot against top koreans(42-9, go look at the list to check the names of his opponents), that he won 6 tournaments starring strong koreans(guess what, against top koreans!) and that he has made at least top8 in the last 13 international tournaments(I repeat it again, with koreans). In conclusion, Serral does win against koreans and wins titles over them. Spare me your opinions on WCS and region locking, I will never agree with them; In any of case, I did not consider Serral's results in WCS. You said no player has won this much in so little time which is objectively false if you don't consider WCS titles (which you shouldn't.) TaeJa has won more tournaments in the same amount of time. Serral and TaeJa both won 11 premier titles but Serral did so in 22 months to TaeJa's 24. Of course I do count WCS! I was omitting them from the stats I presented to underline that Serral won indeed against koreans, since Vindicare was saying the opponents. Weird that you mention TaeJa, I was pretty sure you were convinced his accomplishments weren't that relevant since he won 4 Dreamhacks, 3 HSC, no GSL tournaments and no World Championships.
And that's where Vindicare disagreed with you. The statement that no player has won this much in this little time is only true if you consider WCS which wildly inflates his results.
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On March 03 2020 09:17 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 09:12 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 08:34 Charoisaur wrote:On March 03 2020 07:06 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 05:51 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:36 Xain0n wrote:On March 03 2020 03:46 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 19:33 Xain0n wrote:On March 02 2020 17:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 02 2020 16:01 Harris1st wrote:Not sure what y'all are arguing about? Top 4 of the world. End of discussion. Easy I'm arguing because Serral stans insist he's still the best in the world. It's never been true, it's not true now. People just WANT it to be true because he's from Europe instead of Korea. That's also a truth that's been true for a long time. His fans make excuses, use irrational logic, and just generally are toxic because he's not Korean. You have received reasonable answers and statistics and you have kept spewing your opinions like they were facts. Serral is still undoubtly among the best players in the world, he is the most consistent for sure. Not recognizing Serral has been THE best is just delusion. He was without any doubt in the second half of 2018 and around August/September last year. In reality, you cannot accept it because Serral is not korean. I've never once said that Serral isn't a top level player. I've said as much in numerous comments. If you're gonna change your opinion from "Serral is the best" to "Serral is a top level player" then I've done my job. Serral gets treated differently than other top level players, people consider him a GOAT when he's barely at the top level in his own era let alone across every era. He gets that special treatment for two reasons. He's a foreigner and benefits from recency bias. If the conversation shifts to that he's simply a top level talent, among the best rather than THE best, I'll have done my job and I'll stop complaining. will find he's certainly not getting this special treatment No player in Sc2 has won so much in so little time and the fact he has reached at worst a ro8 in two years is unprecedent;
There you go again. WCS is by itself a fucking welfare title. It's rigged to be more important than it should be. Serral wins WCS titles, he wins vs foreigners NOT top Koreans. He's the only one that gets put in GOAT conversations without winning vs top Koreans. He does that because he's European. No Korean player would get that kind of love. Serral is protected by region locking, I've said it again and again and I'll say it some more. The longer Region Locking exists, the more Serral benefits. I will counter that shit, for as long as I can. I really hope you are not reading what I am writing; if you are, you are very wrong. And you don't need to hang out with anyone to look bad, judging from your posts. Over the last two days, I already made clear that since the second half of 2018 Serral has been winning alot against top koreans(42-9, go look at the list to check the names of his opponents), that he won 6 tournaments starring strong koreans(guess what, against top koreans!) and that he has made at least top8 in the last 13 international tournaments(I repeat it again, with koreans). In conclusion, Serral does win against koreans and wins titles over them. Spare me your opinions on WCS and region locking, I will never agree with them; In any of case, I did not consider Serral's results in WCS. You said no player has won this much in so little time which is objectively false if you don't consider WCS titles (which you shouldn't.) TaeJa has won more tournaments in the same amount of time. Serral and TaeJa both won 11 premier titles but Serral did so in 22 months to TaeJa's 24. Of course I do count WCS! I was omitting them from the stats I presented to underline that Serral won indeed against koreans, since Vindicare was saying the opponents. Weird that you mention TaeJa, I was pretty sure you were convinced his accomplishments weren't that relevant since he won 4 Dreamhacks, 3 HSC, no GSL tournaments and no World Championships. And that's where Vindicare disagreed with you. The statement that no player has won this much in this little time is only true if you consider WCS which wildly inflates his results.
No, if Vindicare disagreed for that reason there simply would have been no point to insist because we would be wasting words on how tournaments are subjectively evaluated.
No way I'll ever be convinced WCS are worth nothing, GSL vs The World is a showmatch and HSC's main focus is drinking and there is no hope to convert you guys can change idea, either.
Vindicare said that "Serral doesn't beat koreans", something I can disprove with statistics and facts that strike down any reasonable opposite opinion; beyond that, there is only delusion.
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Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world.
Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash.
I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
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On March 03 2020 10:48 The_Red_Viper wrote:Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
Thank you. Nothing to add to this.
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On March 03 2020 07:37 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 06:17 Vindicare605 wrote:On March 03 2020 06:15 MarianoSC2 wrote:On March 03 2020 05:59 Monster3 wrote:
Rogue:
Tier 1 - 1x Blizzcon, 2x IEM Katowice
Tier 2 - 1x GSL
Tier 3 - 1x GSL ST, 1x IEM
Maru:
Tier 1: None
Tier 2: 6x GSL (including OSL and SSL here)
Tier 3:1x WESG
Serral:
Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon
Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World
Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion. Oh it's even better that he says GSL vs the World is on the same level as code S. This 11 post guy is truly something special. Yo Xainon this is how I see most Serral Stans. This is the kind of company you keep. You should regulate on him because he makes you look bad rofl. Almost everyone looks like a myopic idiot in this discussion so maybe I’d calm it with the condescension. Do we really fucking need this sub-topic every single tournament thread? It’s interesting to have the occasional time but Jesus H Christ
Seriously. Can we start temp-banning these people when they get like this? They have zero interest in speaking like reasonable human beings; they're just polluting the thread and we've heard it all a million times already.
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The actual problem is, we won't be having any more Serral vs Koreans games for a long time 
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On March 03 2020 15:14 Harris1st wrote:The actual problem is, we won't be having any more Serral vs Koreans games for a long time
seeing as he won't play in Code S, that's just the way Serral likes it 
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On March 03 2020 15:30 Die4Ever wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2020 15:14 Harris1st wrote:The actual problem is, we won't be having any more Serral vs Koreans games for a long time seeing as he won't play in Code S, that's just the way Serral likes it
I don't think he "likes" it to be honest. It is just the way it is. If it didn't include living 3 months in Korea, I'm sure he would love to play a GSL.
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EPT
