On March 03 2020 10:48 wrote: Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
No player has ever been as dominant as Serral
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
You got it all wrong. You're the one with the opinions. I'm the one with the facts. Maru has won 4 GSLs in a row. Serral hasn't won a single one. Therefore Maru is the most dominant player ever. This is a fact backed up by numbers and statistics. Your criteria isn't a fact - it's just an opinion.
On March 03 2020 10:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
No player has ever been as dominant as Serral
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
Hypothetically, do you think if Serral was playing in GSL during that time he would have won all of them? I find that to be unrealistic which is why his streak looks better when you purely look at placings compared to Rogue who you knock for not winning GSL in the midst of his streak.
Xianon is defensive about how little we consider WCS and then goes and tries to belittle GSL as a competition and he wonders why people don't take his opinion seriously.
Look dude, I and every other Serral critic would shut up if he would go play in GSL. He doesn't. That fact, the fact that a supposedly super competitive guy refuses to play in the top level tournament is a big deal. He could silence all of his doubters if he wanted to, but he won't.
On March 03 2020 10:48 wrote: Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
No player has ever been as dominant as Serral
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
You got it all wrong. You're the one with the opinions. I'm the one with the facts. Maru has won 4 GSLs in a row. Serral hasn't won a single one. Therefore Maru is the most dominant player ever. This is a fact backed up by numbers and statistics. Your criteria isn't a fact - it's just an opinion.
Considering every single tournament a certain player has participated in is literally the widest possible and the most inclusive criterium if we come down to offline tournaments; winning every series and title over ten month is domination, one could achieve more if he played more but that's it.
If you choose Code S(based on your OPINION only you are evidently choosing less inclusive criteria, you are the one "cherrypicking"; Maru really was dominant...in Code S only. He wasn't if we take a look at all the offline tournaments he took part in.
On March 03 2020 10:48 wrote: Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
No player has ever been as dominant as Serral
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
You got it all wrong. You're the one with the opinions. I'm the one with the facts. Maru has won 4 GSLs in a row. Serral hasn't won a single one. Therefore Maru is the most dominant player ever. This is a fact backed up by numbers and statistics. Your criteria isn't a fact - it's just an opinion.
Considering every single tournament a certain player has participated in is literally the widest possible and the most inclusive criterium if we come down to offline tournaments; winning every series and title over ten month is domination, one could achieve more if he played more but that's it.
If you choose Code S(based on your OPINION only you are evidently choosing less inclusive criteria, you are the one "cherrypicking"; Maru really was dominant...in Code S only. He wasn't if we take a look at all the offline tournaments he took part in.
You talk about inclusivity and then praise WCS which is fucking region locked rofl. Do you even listen to yourself?
Code S is open to ANYONE that wants to play and can qualify. It's not locked behind arbitrary rules meant to exclude Koreans.
Yea but Serral wins inclusive tournaments. No he doesn't. He's won ONE, and that tournament had a favorable bracket for him because he was seeded from winning a bunch of NON-INCLUSIVE tournaments.
On March 03 2020 10:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
No player has ever been as dominant as Serral
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
Hypothetically, do you think if Serral was playing in GSL during that time he would have won all of them? I find that to be unrealistic which is why his streak looks better when you purely look at placings compared to Rogue who you knock for not winning GSL in the midst of his streak.
What I think is irrelevant. Serral may very well have won both of the Code S tournaments that were played during his period of domination, but we have no way to actually know that.
On March 04 2020 04:09 Vindicare605 wrote:
You talk about inclusivity and then praise WCS which is fucking region locked rofl. Do you even listen to yourself?
Code S is open to ANYONE that wants to play and can qualify. It's not locked behind arbitrary rules meant to exclude Koreans.
Yea but Serral wins inclusive tournaments. No he doesn't. He's won ONE, and that tournament had a favorable bracket for him because he was seeded from winning a bunch of NON-INCLUSIVE tournaments.
Praising WCS? Downselling Code S? I want to remind you that you openly disregard both HSC and GSL vs the World. Your previous objections have been refuted, so you come down to this? Inclusive here doesn't mean "open to every possible player who wants to participate" but "considering all the tournaments played, not a part of them arbitrarily chosen". Beating the same koreans in Code S or outside the Code S, what's the difference(except for the format, of course)?
On March 03 2020 10:48 The_Red_Viper wrote: Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
No player has ever been as dominant as Serral
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
Hypothetically, do you think if Serral was playing in GSL during that time he would have won all of them? I find that to be unrealistic which is why his streak looks better when you purely look at placings compared to Rogue who you knock for not winning GSL in the midst of his streak.
What I think is irrelevant. Serral may very well have won both of the Code S tournaments that were played during his period of domination, but we have no way to actually know that.
You talk about inclusivity and then praise WCS which is fucking region locked rofl. Do you even listen to yourself?
Code S is open to ANYONE that wants to play and can qualify. It's not locked behind arbitrary rules meant to exclude Koreans.
Yea but Serral wins inclusive tournaments. No he doesn't. He's won ONE, and that tournament had a favorable bracket for him because he was seeded from winning a bunch of NON-INCLUSIVE tournaments.
Praising WCS? Downselling Code S? I want to remind you that you openly disregard both HSC and GSL vs the World. Your previous objections have been refuted, so you come down to this? Inclusive here doesn't mean "open to every possible player who wants to participate" but "considering all the tournaments played, not a part of them arbitrarily chosen". Beating the same koreans in Code S or outside the Code S, what's the difference(except for the format, of course)?
What's the difference you ask and then say besides format. You're totally acknowledging that there is a difference and then downplaying it because it doesn't support your point of view.
If you want another answer, I have one, easy. Jetlag. Serral has never won when Koreans don't have to travel massive distances to play him aside from GSL vs The World which again is a glorified All-Star game and I welcome anyone that would like to convince me it's not.
How can you be such a hard core fan of someone that has so many easy excuses for what he accomplishes? Wouldn't you rather his argument be rock solid? Obviously it's not, he's protected by region locking, he won't play in GSL, he loses in the big global tournaments like this one.
Shouldn't you support the idea of him being unanimous? What are you so afraid of?
On March 03 2020 10:48 wrote: Almost noone ever is saying that WCS shouldn't count at all, you bring this up 20 times a month but in reality all people in general are saying is that WCS is worth a lot less than any competition which features (top) korean players. So bringing up that serral won the most premier tournaments is technically true due to liquipedia definitions, but in reality the competitive gap between premier tournaments is so huge that it's almost a meaningless thing to mention it. Heck i gave taeja a lot of shit for similar reasons, but in serral's case it's way, way worse because there are absolutely no koreans in wcs whatsoever which in the end means that wcs doesn't feature a lot of the top players in the world. Serral absolutely has shown that he plays on the highest level by beating top korean players in the respective tournaments, but him losing katowice also shows that tournaments which actually feature basically every top player (similar to gsl) are still very much possible to lose. He is no flash. I think this is a fair assessment, already excited to see why you'll disagree though
No player has ever been as dominant as Serral
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
You got it all wrong. You're the one with the opinions. I'm the one with the facts. Maru has won 4 GSLs in a row. Serral hasn't won a single one. Therefore Maru is the most dominant player ever. This is a fact backed up by numbers and statistics. Your criteria isn't a fact - it's just an opinion.
Considering every single tournament a certain player has participated in is literally the widest possible and the most inclusive criterium if we come down to offline tournaments; winning every series and title over ten month is domination, one could achieve more if he played more but that's it.
If you choose Code S(based on your OPINION only you are evidently choosing less inclusive criteria, you are the one "cherrypicking"; Maru really was dominant...in Code S only. He wasn't if we take a look at all the offline tournaments he took part in.
You make it sound so impressive. It sounds a lot less impressive when you consider that he played only 3 tournaments with koreans during his run and one of them was a HSC. I know we will never get to an agreement on this but stop presenting your controversial opinions as facts
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
Hypothetically, do you think if Serral was playing in GSL during that time he would have won all of them? I find that to be unrealistic which is why his streak looks better when you purely look at placings compared to Rogue who you knock for not winning GSL in the midst of his streak.
What I think is irrelevant. Serral may very well have won both of the Code S tournaments that were played during his period of domination, but we have no way to actually know that.
On March 04 2020 04:09 Vindicare605 wrote:
You talk about inclusivity and then praise WCS which is fucking region locked rofl. Do you even listen to yourself?
Code S is open to ANYONE that wants to play and can qualify. It's not locked behind arbitrary rules meant to exclude Koreans.
Yea but Serral wins inclusive tournaments. No he doesn't. He's won ONE, and that tournament had a favorable bracket for him because he was seeded from winning a bunch of NON-INCLUSIVE tournaments.
Praising WCS? Downselling Code S? I want to remind you that you openly disregard both HSC and GSL vs the World. Your previous objections have been refuted, so you come down to this? Inclusive here doesn't mean "open to every possible player who wants to participate" but "considering all the tournaments played, not a part of them arbitrarily chosen". Beating the same koreans in Code S or outside the Code S, what's the difference(except for the format, of course)?
What's the difference you ask and then say besides format. You're totally acknowledging that there is a difference and then downplaying it because it doesn't support your point of view.
If you want another answer, I have one, easy. Jetlag. Serral has never won when Koreans don't have to travel massive distances to play him aside from GSL vs The World which again is a glorified All-Star game and I welcome anyone that would like to convince me it's not.
How can you be such a hard core fan of someone that has so many easy excuses for what he accomplishes? Wouldn't you rather his argument be rock solid? Obviously it's not, he's protected by region locking, he won't play in GSL, he loses in the big global tournaments like this one.
Shouldn't you support the idea of him being unanimous? What are you so afraid of?
Its pointless with this guy, he is too far deluded. Lets just pretend to agree with him, like you would with someone with ehm, less mental prowess. YES Xianon, Serral is the most dominant player ever! He won 1 Blizzcon, and a bunch or friendly tournaments with limited number (and quality) of Koreans that no-one from Korea takes seriously. But sure, he is the best ever and no-one will ever surpass his dominance.
Btw. Serrals current record is 1 Tier 1 tournament win from 7 he participated in (4x Katowice, 3x Blizzcon). I am not saying its a bad record, winning Blizzcon is huge and he also achieved a couple of good top4/top8 finishes, but its nothing extremely special. Just as a comparison, during that same time period, Rogue has won 3. Plus he has a GSL as well. There is just no comparison here. The only thing going for Serral is that his period of "dominance" was maybe a bit longer with an impressive streak of straight wins, but largely inflated by not playing with the best, so yeah... no real argument anywhere
On March 03 2020 22:54 Charoisaur wrote: [quote] Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
Hypothetically, do you think if Serral was playing in GSL during that time he would have won all of them? I find that to be unrealistic which is why his streak looks better when you purely look at placings compared to Rogue who you knock for not winning GSL in the midst of his streak.
What I think is irrelevant. Serral may very well have won both of the Code S tournaments that were played during his period of domination, but we have no way to actually know that.
On March 04 2020 04:09 Vindicare605 wrote:
You talk about inclusivity and then praise WCS which is fucking region locked rofl. Do you even listen to yourself?
Code S is open to ANYONE that wants to play and can qualify. It's not locked behind arbitrary rules meant to exclude Koreans.
Yea but Serral wins inclusive tournaments. No he doesn't. He's won ONE, and that tournament had a favorable bracket for him because he was seeded from winning a bunch of NON-INCLUSIVE tournaments.
Praising WCS? Downselling Code S? I want to remind you that you openly disregard both HSC and GSL vs the World. Your previous objections have been refuted, so you come down to this? Inclusive here doesn't mean "open to every possible player who wants to participate" but "considering all the tournaments played, not a part of them arbitrarily chosen". Beating the same koreans in Code S or outside the Code S, what's the difference(except for the format, of course)?
What's the difference you ask and then say besides format. You're totally acknowledging that there is a difference and then downplaying it because it doesn't support your point of view.
If you want another answer, I have one, easy. Jetlag. Serral has never won when Koreans don't have to travel massive distances to play him aside from GSL vs The World which again is a glorified All-Star game and I welcome anyone that would like to convince me it's not.
How can you be such a hard core fan of someone that has so many easy excuses for what he accomplishes? Wouldn't you rather his argument be rock solid? Obviously it's not, he's protected by region locking, he won't play in GSL, he loses in the big global tournaments like this one.
Shouldn't you support the idea of him being unanimous? What are you so afraid of?
Its pointless with this guy, he is too far deluded. Lets just pretend to agree with him, like you would with someone with ehm, less mental prowess. YES Xianon, Serral is the most dominant player ever! He won 1 Blizzcon, and a bunch or friendly tournaments with limited number (and quality) of Koreans that no-one from Korea takes seriously. But sure, he is the best ever and no-one will ever surpass his dominance.
Btw. Serrals current record is 1 Tier 1 tournament win from 7 he participated in (4x Katowice, 3x Blizzcon). I am not saying its a bad record, winning Blizzcon is huge and he also achieved a couple of good top4/top8 finishes, but its nothing extremely special. Just as a comparison, during that same time period, Rogue has won 3. Plus he has a GSL as well. There is just no comparison here. The only thing going for Serral is that his period of "dominance" was maybe a bit longer with an impressive streak of straight wins, but largely inflated by not playing with the best, so yeah... no real argument anywhere
Remind me again, who knocked Serral out of 2019's Blizzcon? Oh that's right it was REYNOR, Reynor who couldn't even make it out of the Group Stages of this IEM Katowice.
Yea such a dominant player Serral is, he loses to people who can't even make the final bracket.
I really do not understand what you people see with this guy. He's good sure, but he has NEVER proven that he's the best. Never, not once, Ever. You all give him way more credit than he deserves because he isn't Korean. I guarantee you if he was, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
Keep tellling that to yourself if it makes you sleep better
Keep denying that if you want to believe it's not true, but it's facts against your opinion. I have grown bored of listing the same achievements, streak and period of invincibility every time, you should know them by heart at this point.
No, it's facts against your opinion
Which facts? Maybe Serral going 47-0 in offline series(20 against koreans) and winning 6/6 LAN tournaments(3/3 with koreans) over the span of ten months, starting after the 22nd of April in 2018(offline losses to soO in Nation Wars) and ending with Katowice's group stages the 1st of March 2019(loss to Inno)?
Cherry-picking statistics doesn't equate to "facts that make him the most dominant player of all time" Maru won 4 GSLs in a row and Rogue won 4 weekenders in a row. Both are more impressive than the things you listed.
Speaking of most dominant players, one has to take a look of to the period in which a certain player was dominant, so it's obvious that I take a look at the most dominant streak Serral had; that's not "cherrypicking statistics".
"Impressive" is not objective, it's your personal view on a certain achievement; what is objective, instead, is that Maru dropped out of 7 Premier Tournaments during his Code S streak(even if he won another one, WESG) and that Rogue lost twice in Code S while his weekenders streak was open(it's also an opinion of yours, not a fact, that Rogue's 4 weekenders are better than Serral's 6); both Maru and Rogue dropped series and tournaments during their streak, they were not as dominant as Serral who lost none during his.
On March 04 2020 00:37 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Dude, everyone already told you that the year Serral had was super impressive, but in terms of achievements Maru had the best year and it wasnt close. As far as career peaks go, Rogue had and equally impressive peak (if not better). Everything you say and hide behind facts are just your opinions you are trying to sell to people who rightfully disagree with you, because at this point everyone knows that your criteria for player evaluation are bullshit.
"Equally impressive", "best year"...again, opinions(also, considering that Serral won Player of the Year 2018 you may take into consideration that Maru's year wasn't so much better than Serral's right?).
Hiding opinions behind facts is a true gem, thank you for that!
You got it all wrong. You're the one with the opinions. I'm the one with the facts. Maru has won 4 GSLs in a row. Serral hasn't won a single one. Therefore Maru is the most dominant player ever. This is a fact backed up by numbers and statistics. Your criteria isn't a fact - it's just an opinion.
Considering every single tournament a certain player has participated in is literally the widest possible and the most inclusive criterium if we come down to offline tournaments; winning every series and title over ten month is domination, one could achieve more if he played more but that's it.
If you choose Code S(based on your OPINION only you are evidently choosing less inclusive criteria, you are the one "cherrypicking"; Maru really was dominant...in Code S only. He wasn't if we take a look at all the offline tournaments he took part in.
You make it sound so impressive. It sounds a lot less impressive when you consider that he played only 3 tournaments with koreans during his run and one of them was a HSC. I know we will never get to an agreement on this but stop presenting your controversial opinions as facts
I make it sound impressive because it is, Serral still managed to have the best offline streak against koreans, ever(and those koreans had a very high average rank on GSL's rankings). I present my opinions as such, statistics are not opinions.
On March 04 2020 04:44 MarianoSC2 wrote:
Its pointless with this guy, he is too far deluded. Lets just pretend to agree with him, like you would with someone with ehm, less mental prowess. YES Xianon, Serral is the most dominant player ever! He won 1 Blizzcon, and a bunch or friendly tournaments with limited number (and quality) of Koreans that no-one from Korea takes seriously. But sure, he is the best ever and no-one will ever surpass his dominance.
Btw. Serrals current record is 1 Tier 1 tournament win from 7 he participated in (4x Katowice, 3x Blizzcon). I am not saying its a bad record, winning Blizzcon is huge and he also achieved a couple of good top4/top8 finishes, but its nothing extremely special. Just as a comparison, during that same time period, Rogue has won 3. Plus he has a GSL as well. There is just no comparison here. The only thing going for Serral is that his period of "dominance" was maybe a bit longer with an impressive streak of straight wins, but largely inflated by not playing with the best, so yeah... no real argument anywhere
The next time you suggest my mental prowess might be inferior, be sure to at least write my name correctly.
If you didn't read the whole post and just looked at Chairosaur's quote, effectively it might seem that I have declared Serral the most dominant player ever, during his whole career; he omitted "but that's the past", so I'll rephrase my statement in order to clarify what I meant, and what I had in mind when I replied afterwards: Serral is the player who had the most dominant period.
So, you weren't really arguing with me in your last post.
What's the difference you ask and then say besides format. You're totally acknowledging that there is a difference and then downplaying it because it doesn't support your point of view.
If you want another answer, I have one, easy. Jetlag. Serral has never won when Koreans don't have to travel massive distances to play him aside from GSL vs The World which again is a glorified All-Star game and I welcome anyone that would like to convince me it's not.
How can you be such a hard core fan of someone that has so many easy excuses for what he accomplishes? Wouldn't you rather his argument be rock solid? Obviously it's not, he's protected by region locking, he won't play in GSL, he loses in the big global tournaments like this one.
Shouldn't you support the idea of him being unanimous? What are you so afraid of?
Remind me again, who knocked Serral out of 2019's Blizzcon? Oh that's right it was REYNOR, Reynor who couldn't even make it out of the Group Stages of this IEM Katowice.
Yea such a dominant player Serral is, he loses to people who can't even make the final bracket.
I really do not understand what you people see with this guy. He's good sure, but he has NEVER proven that he's the best. Never, not once, Ever. You all give him way more credit than he deserves because he isn't Korean. I guarantee you if he was, we wouldn't even be having this conversation.
BlizzCon 2019, groups played in Korea: Serral 3-0 Stats. Stats didn't have to travel and the competition was very important, you are wrong.
You keep insisting that Serral has never proven that he's the best, but that's false. Right now, in 2020, we may argue if he is the best or not, but there was a period in 2018 in which he was the best, and he ultimately proved him by winning BlizzCon.
Again those ideas that we love Serral only because he's not korean and that GSL vs The World is a showmatch...
On March 04 2020 04:55 Vindicare605 wrote: Remind me again, who knocked Serral out of 2019's Blizzcon? Oh that's right it was REYNOR, Reynor who couldn't even make it out of the Group Stages of this IEM Katowice.
Yea such a dominant player Serral is, he loses to people who can't even make the final bracket.
I just wanted to chime in for a second to devalue that one argument because it pisses me of
Ever heard of a guy name Meomaika? Maru lost 2:0 What a GOAT. Loses to a Tier 215 random Vietnamese guy. All his wins must be pure luck because his true skill is Tier 216
Serral: Tier 1: 1x Blizzcon Tier 2: 2x GSL vs World Tier 3: 6x WCS Circuit, 2x HSC
And that I think is being harsh on GSL are not being "tier 1" which I would say it is frankly, but trying to be fair to Serral.
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion.
Oh it's even better that he says GSL vs the World is on the same level as code S. This 11 post guy is truly something special.
Yo Xainon this is how I see most Serral Stans. This is the kind of company you keep. You should regulate on him because he makes you look bad rofl.
Almost everyone looks like a myopic idiot in this discussion so maybe I’d calm it with the condescension.
Do we really fucking need this sub-topic every single tournament thread? It’s interesting to have the occasional time but Jesus H Christ
Seriously. Can we start temp-banning these people when they get like this? They have zero interest in speaking like reasonable human beings; they're just polluting the thread and we've heard it all a million times already.
At this point it would be a great idea to just make a "Serral GOAT discussion" thread and throw warnings/bans left and right to people who discuss it in other threads.
But ofc I also support the robot's suggestion (please don't kill all humans). Neutralrobot or Chaos!
That's actually not a bad idea, IMO!
to kill all humans? D:
Kill all humans, you say? You know, that wasn't on my agenda, but now that you mention it...
Well, looks like I got something to post on r/TYFU. Sorry about that guys!
Just booze and cigars dude, don't give it ideas. Damn
GSL vs the World on the same level as GSL Code S? :/ Its a super tournament level at best. And HSC + WCS Circuit + WESG should probably be like Tier 4. All in all, Serral is super good, super consistent, but in terms of achievements, he is so far off the top that he will need to win at least another 4 to 5 Blizzcon/Katowice to be seriously considered in a GOAT discussion.
Oh it's even better that he says GSL vs the World is on the same level as code S. This 11 post guy is truly something special.
Yo Xainon this is how I see most Serral Stans. This is the kind of company you keep. You should regulate on him because he makes you look bad rofl.
Almost everyone looks like a myopic idiot in this discussion so maybe I’d calm it with the condescension.
Do we really fucking need this sub-topic every single tournament thread? It’s interesting to have the occasional time but Jesus H Christ
Seriously. Can we start temp-banning these people when they get like this? They have zero interest in speaking like reasonable human beings; they're just polluting the thread and we've heard it all a million times already.
At this point it would be a great idea to just make a "Serral GOAT discussion" thread and throw warnings/bans left and right to people who discuss it in other threads.
But ofc I also support the robot's suggestion (please don't kill all humans). Neutralrobot or Chaos!
That's actually not a bad idea, IMO!
to kill all humans? D:
Kill all humans, you say? You know, that wasn't on my agenda, but now that you mention it...
Well, looks like I got something to post on r/TYFU. Sorry about that guys!
Just booze and cigars dude, don't give it ideas. Damn
I see I even fucked up by typing an Y instead of an I to get the wrong subreddit. Anyway, hopefully neutral is just as efficient with his killing as he is with his posting so it's all gonna be quick and painless. If not happy queuing at your local suicide booth!
EPT
