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On July 01 2019 09:29 Anc13nt wrote:
I think based off of this, Serral or Dark might be the favourite in GSL vs the World.
It depends if serral got a protoss in his path...
And I don't see Dark beating him, his zvz is so strong.
Edit : ofc, terran kor can beat him too but if you just consider against who he is favorite or not.
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Best player in the world.
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To the guy claiming that Maru was just a run ....
Your standards are way to high man.
You are equating stable with Beyond-bonjwa. If you place in the top 8 of high level events for more then a year ... you are beyond stable. You are beasting.
Your standards for stable are others standards for champion. Nobody is a champion forever. If you are in the top of a fast moving field for more then a year ... you are legit beyond stable.
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I think 2018 really distorts our perception of what consistency looks like in SC2. Innovation got player of the year in 2017, and he `only ' won an SSL,GSL, and GSL vs the world, and before that the best players constantly lost. If you win a few championships a year you're super consistent, even if it doesn't measure up to Serral and Maru in 2018.
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On July 01 2019 09:21 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 09:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:07 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:03 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:01 Anc13nt wrote:
it's hard to understand how INnovation beat Serral twice this year. He makes zerg look imba. Innovation is in better form lately than TY is. Maybe TY starts getting better from this tourney, but from his IEM run it was kinda shaky in Code S. At this point all top tier korean pros seem to be super out of shape, including Maru, and have been there for a while with sudden spikes of good play. Probably because there is someone to measure their stability against. Dark? Classic? Maru was at the top for over a year, Dark is stable for ages, similarly Classic. It's not like there's no one, but it's harder to be stable in a harsher environment. The 2018 for Inno was weird, but now he appears to be in the stable mode again. What is more worrisome are the deep falls of some players(e.g. Rogue). Maru isn't playing much to judge his form per se, sadly. Nah they’ve been losing quite a lot of series randomly, this is not even close to being stable. Maru had a solid run in 2018, but that was 6 months ago and since then he played a few of really sloppy games. Serral just got demolished by stats and lost a series to neeb at wesg. Serral lost a premier tournament to reynor. Edit Forgot about soo at iem and innovation x2
You Just listed every single series Serral has lost in the last 14 months. There is really only 6 of them. This is unprecedented consistency.
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On July 01 2019 09:11 Parrek wrote:
So who do you all think will beat Serral in the power rankings next month? It's tradition at this point
Are you implying a HSC win is worth more than a GSL win?
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If 8th place in IEM Katovice is your absolute worst over time span of one and half years you must be pretty damn consistent, among other minor things like breaking MMR 7.5K in the ladder, hanging most of time at the top of Aligulac list with about 3K ratings...
Oh, Serral. You can cut a lot from your peak performances still being one of most consistent SC2 players.
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That was fast! Time to learn how to play like Serral?
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On July 01 2019 09:28 AzAlexZ wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 09:21 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:07 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:03 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:01 Anc13nt wrote:
it's hard to understand how INnovation beat Serral twice this year. He makes zerg look imba. Innovation is in better form lately than TY is. Maybe TY starts getting better from this tourney, but from his IEM run it was kinda shaky in Code S. At this point all top tier korean pros seem to be super out of shape, including Maru, and have been there for a while with sudden spikes of good play. Probably because there is someone to measure their stability against. Dark? Classic? Maru was at the top for over a year, Dark is stable for ages, similarly Classic. It's not like there's no one, but it's harder to be stable in a harsher environment. The 2018 for Inno was weird, but now he appears to be in the stable mode again. What is more worrisome are the deep falls of some players(e.g. Rogue). Maru isn't playing much to judge his form per se, sadly. Nah they’ve been losing quite a lot of series randomly, this is not even close to being stable. Maru had a solid run in 2018, but that was 6 months ago and since then he played a few of really sloppy games. Serral just got demolished by stats and lost a series to neeb at wesg. Serral lost a premier tournament to reynor. Edit Forgot about soo at iem and innovation x2 Stats and Neeb has the best PvZ's in the world, Inno is a beast when he decides to be one, soO's win was foretold in Ancient Egyptian and Chinese times, and predicted in the Inca and Mayan cultures and Reynor was, well, vengeful... Now Serral wins two tournaments in a row, so yeah
Not taking away from Stats, Neeb, Innovation, Soo, and Reynor, as they range from Code S caliber players to some of the greatest players of all time, but it shows that Serral is hardly "stable" if you want to compare him to the other elite Koreans.
Nobody wins everything, and the Korean scene is brutal compared to what Serral competes in. Juggernauts like Classic, Innovation, Rogue, Stats and Maru get knocked out before the finals simply because they have to face elite opponent after elite opponent.
All I'm saying is that even if you want to consider Serral the best player on the planet (and I don't believe he is but that's another conversation), you cant say that the elite koreans are out of shape just because they are constantly put through the meat grinder that is Korean SC2 while Serral just farms wins against foreigners for the most part
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On July 01 2019 10:06 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 09:28 AzAlexZ wrote:On July 01 2019 09:21 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:07 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:03 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:01 Anc13nt wrote:
it's hard to understand how INnovation beat Serral twice this year. He makes zerg look imba. Innovation is in better form lately than TY is. Maybe TY starts getting better from this tourney, but from his IEM run it was kinda shaky in Code S. At this point all top tier korean pros seem to be super out of shape, including Maru, and have been there for a while with sudden spikes of good play. Probably because there is someone to measure their stability against. Dark? Classic? Maru was at the top for over a year, Dark is stable for ages, similarly Classic. It's not like there's no one, but it's harder to be stable in a harsher environment. The 2018 for Inno was weird, but now he appears to be in the stable mode again. What is more worrisome are the deep falls of some players(e.g. Rogue). Maru isn't playing much to judge his form per se, sadly. Nah they’ve been losing quite a lot of series randomly, this is not even close to being stable. Maru had a solid run in 2018, but that was 6 months ago and since then he played a few of really sloppy games. Serral just got demolished by stats and lost a series to neeb at wesg. Serral lost a premier tournament to reynor. Edit Forgot about soo at iem and innovation x2 Stats and Neeb has the best PvZ's in the world, Inno is a beast when he decides to be one, soO's win was foretold in Ancient Egyptian and Chinese times, and predicted in the Inca and Mayan cultures and Reynor was, well, vengeful... Now Serral wins two tournaments in a row, so yeah Not taking away from Stats, Neeb, Innovation, Soo, and Reynor, as they range from Code S caliber players to some of the greatest players of all time, but it shows that Serral is hardly "stable" if you want to compare him to the other elite Koreans. Nobody wins everything, and the Korean scene is brutal compared to what Serral competes in. Juggernauts like Classic, Innovation, Rogue, Stats and Maru get knocked out before the finals simply because they have to face elite opponent after elite opponent. All I'm saying is that even if you want to consider Serral the best player on the planet (and I don't believe he is but that's another conversation), you cant say that the elite koreans are out of shape just because they are constantly put through the meat grinder that is Korean SC2 while Serral just farms wins against foreigners for the most part
Serral is the most consistent player ever seen in the history
of Starcraft, that's true even if we consider he doesn't play in Korea.
Saying all of the pros in korea are super out of shape at the moment is silly, just look at Dark, Classic and Trap and their good performances during the whole year; on the other hand, some of them are inconsistent(Stats and Inno for example), underperforming(TY?, definitely Zest) or even slumping(Rogue), it cannot be denied.
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On July 01 2019 10:06 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 09:28 AzAlexZ wrote:On July 01 2019 09:21 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:07 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:03 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:01 Anc13nt wrote:
it's hard to understand how INnovation beat Serral twice this year. He makes zerg look imba. Innovation is in better form lately than TY is. Maybe TY starts getting better from this tourney, but from his IEM run it was kinda shaky in Code S. At this point all top tier korean pros seem to be super out of shape, including Maru, and have been there for a while with sudden spikes of good play. Probably because there is someone to measure their stability against. Dark? Classic? Maru was at the top for over a year, Dark is stable for ages, similarly Classic. It's not like there's no one, but it's harder to be stable in a harsher environment. The 2018 for Inno was weird, but now he appears to be in the stable mode again. What is more worrisome are the deep falls of some players(e.g. Rogue). Maru isn't playing much to judge his form per se, sadly. Nah they’ve been losing quite a lot of series randomly, this is not even close to being stable. Maru had a solid run in 2018, but that was 6 months ago and since then he played a few of really sloppy games. Serral just got demolished by stats and lost a series to neeb at wesg. Serral lost a premier tournament to reynor. Edit Forgot about soo at iem and innovation x2 Stats and Neeb has the best PvZ's in the world, Inno is a beast when he decides to be one, soO's win was foretold in Ancient Egyptian and Chinese times, and predicted in the Inca and Mayan cultures and Reynor was, well, vengeful... Now Serral wins two tournaments in a row, so yeah Not taking away from Stats, Neeb, Innovation, Soo, and Reynor, as they range from Code S caliber players to some of the greatest players of all time, but it shows that Serral is hardly "stable" if you want to compare him to the other elite Koreans. Nobody wins everything, and the Korean scene is brutal compared to what Serral competes in. Juggernauts like Classic, Innovation, Rogue, Stats and Maru get knocked out before the finals simply because they have to face elite opponent after elite opponent. All I'm saying is that even if you want to consider Serral the best player on the planet (and I don't believe he is but that's another conversation), you cant say that the elite koreans are out of shape just because they are constantly put through the meat grinder that is Korean SC2 while Serral just farms wins against foreigners for the most part
So I looked it up because I was bored, going back to Jan 1 2018 Serral is 29-6 in offline BoX series against Korean players. That kind of dominance is pretty much unheard of.
For comparison in that time frame Maru is 43-19 against Korean players. Dark is 48-20 (and 0-3 against Serral).
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On July 01 2019 09:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 09:11 Parrek wrote:
So who do you all think will beat Serral in the power rankings next month? It's tradition at this point Are you implying a HSC win is worth more than a GSL win?
I'm saying I wasn't impressed by his run and it was mostly over Protoss. Kinda the same caveat as Neeb's Kespa cup win. All in all Trap was almost certainly his hardest match on paper in brackets and Trap is still new to the highest level of SC.
On top of that, Serral keeps showing that nothing has really changed in his form. The only threat to his #1 was Maru. Maru is out of the way, but somehow one GSL and some smaller runs is enough?
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On July 01 2019 10:52 Amarillo Caballero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 10:06 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:28 AzAlexZ wrote:On July 01 2019 09:21 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:07 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:03 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:01 Anc13nt wrote:
it's hard to understand how INnovation beat Serral twice this year. He makes zerg look imba. Innovation is in better form lately than TY is. Maybe TY starts getting better from this tourney, but from his IEM run it was kinda shaky in Code S. At this point all top tier korean pros seem to be super out of shape, including Maru, and have been there for a while with sudden spikes of good play. Probably because there is someone to measure their stability against. Dark? Classic? Maru was at the top for over a year, Dark is stable for ages, similarly Classic. It's not like there's no one, but it's harder to be stable in a harsher environment. The 2018 for Inno was weird, but now he appears to be in the stable mode again. What is more worrisome are the deep falls of some players(e.g. Rogue). Maru isn't playing much to judge his form per se, sadly. Nah they’ve been losing quite a lot of series randomly, this is not even close to being stable. Maru had a solid run in 2018, but that was 6 months ago and since then he played a few of really sloppy games. Serral just got demolished by stats and lost a series to neeb at wesg. Serral lost a premier tournament to reynor. Edit Forgot about soo at iem and innovation x2 Stats and Neeb has the best PvZ's in the world, Inno is a beast when he decides to be one, soO's win was foretold in Ancient Egyptian and Chinese times, and predicted in the Inca and Mayan cultures and Reynor was, well, vengeful... Now Serral wins two tournaments in a row, so yeah Not taking away from Stats, Neeb, Innovation, Soo, and Reynor, as they range from Code S caliber players to some of the greatest players of all time, but it shows that Serral is hardly "stable" if you want to compare him to the other elite Koreans. Nobody wins everything, and the Korean scene is brutal compared to what Serral competes in. Juggernauts like Classic, Innovation, Rogue, Stats and Maru get knocked out before the finals simply because they have to face elite opponent after elite opponent. All I'm saying is that even if you want to consider Serral the best player on the planet (and I don't believe he is but that's another conversation), you cant say that the elite koreans are out of shape just because they are constantly put through the meat grinder that is Korean SC2 while Serral just farms wins against foreigners for the most part So I looked it up because I was bored, going back to Jan 1 2018 Serral is 29-6 in offline BoX series against Korean players. That kind of dominance is pretty much unheard of. For comparison in that time frame Maru is 43-19 against Korean players. Dark is 48-20 (and 0-3 against Serral).
In 2018 he went 22-2 lol. Only person who is close in terms of match winrate is Inno in 2017 WCS season (63-19). Innovation did have slightly higher winrate (68.83% vs 67.86) at peak.
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On July 01 2019 11:01 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 09:47 Charoisaur wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 Parrek wrote:
So who do you all think will beat Serral in the power rankings next month? It's tradition at this point Are you implying a HSC win is worth more than a GSL win? On top of that, Serral keeps showing that nothing has really changed in his form.
You mean except losing to soO, Inno*2, Reynor*2. Neeb, Stats and Heromarine?
What has Serral done this year that gives him a case for best player?
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On July 01 2019 10:52 Amarillo Caballero wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 10:06 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:28 AzAlexZ wrote:On July 01 2019 09:21 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:07 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:03 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:01 Anc13nt wrote:
it's hard to understand how INnovation beat Serral twice this year. He makes zerg look imba. Innovation is in better form lately than TY is. Maybe TY starts getting better from this tourney, but from his IEM run it was kinda shaky in Code S. At this point all top tier korean pros seem to be super out of shape, including Maru, and have been there for a while with sudden spikes of good play. Probably because there is someone to measure their stability against. Dark? Classic? Maru was at the top for over a year, Dark is stable for ages, similarly Classic. It's not like there's no one, but it's harder to be stable in a harsher environment. The 2018 for Inno was weird, but now he appears to be in the stable mode again. What is more worrisome are the deep falls of some players(e.g. Rogue). Maru isn't playing much to judge his form per se, sadly. Nah they’ve been losing quite a lot of series randomly, this is not even close to being stable. Maru had a solid run in 2018, but that was 6 months ago and since then he played a few of really sloppy games. Serral just got demolished by stats and lost a series to neeb at wesg. Serral lost a premier tournament to reynor. Edit Forgot about soo at iem and innovation x2 Stats and Neeb has the best PvZ's in the world, Inno is a beast when he decides to be one, soO's win was foretold in Ancient Egyptian and Chinese times, and predicted in the Inca and Mayan cultures and Reynor was, well, vengeful... Now Serral wins two tournaments in a row, so yeah Not taking away from Stats, Neeb, Innovation, Soo, and Reynor, as they range from Code S caliber players to some of the greatest players of all time, but it shows that Serral is hardly "stable" if you want to compare him to the other elite Koreans. Nobody wins everything, and the Korean scene is brutal compared to what Serral competes in. Juggernauts like Classic, Innovation, Rogue, Stats and Maru get knocked out before the finals simply because they have to face elite opponent after elite opponent. All I'm saying is that even if you want to consider Serral the best player on the planet (and I don't believe he is but that's another conversation), you cant say that the elite koreans are out of shape just because they are constantly put through the meat grinder that is Korean SC2 while Serral just farms wins against foreigners for the most part So I looked it up because I was bored, going back to Jan 1 2018 Serral is 29-6 in offline BoX series against Korean players. That kind of dominance is pretty much unheard of. For comparison in that time frame Maru is 43-19 against Korean players. Dark is 48-20 (and 0-3 against Serral).
Rogue was 26-6 at the end of 2017 and 4 of those losses were in SSL challenger where he didn't play serious.
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On July 01 2019 11:22 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 11:01 Parrek wrote:On July 01 2019 09:47 Charoisaur wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 Parrek wrote:
So who do you all think will beat Serral in the power rankings next month? It's tradition at this point Are you implying a HSC win is worth more than a GSL win? On top of that, Serral keeps showing that nothing has really changed in his form. You mean except losing to soO, Inno*2, Reynor*2. Neeb, Stats and Heromarine? What has Serral done this year that gives him a case for best player?
Losing to soO 2-3 in one of the best series of the event, crushing him 3-0 here, losing to Reynor twice, once in groups and 3-4 in the finals and crushing him 3-0 in the next event(see the trend here?)losing to Inno 1-2 after already guaranteeing first in his group, then losing to him 3-4 in the finals of WESG?
Serral has only ever been eliminated in the ace match in an event. And with the exception of soO, only in the finals. How is that not more impressive? On top of that, we're talking about a player that doesn't train in Korea. He hasn't played thousands of hours against Korean Terrans, yet he still goes toe to toe against them. Top Korean Terrans are treated almost as a race of their own - the one group that foreigners really struggle with. Serral skipped all of that and performed by thinking about the matchup.
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Fact, Serral is the best zerg at the moment, and zerg is the most OP race at the moment, thus he's the best player in the world
Fact, Blizzard wants a foreigner to dominate the scene, even if it includes 'a little' imbalance in the game because it raises popularity, thus it raises their income
Fact, most of the major tournaments in the last 1.5 years are won by zerg
Fact, Zerg has won last two Blizzcons and will probably win 3rd one in a row this year as well
Fact, there are dozens of top players in Europe that are zergs and there are only two top level terran players. I wonder why is that. Some would say terran is hardest race to play and the zerg is the easiest one.
User was warned for this post.
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On July 01 2019 11:24 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2019 10:52 Amarillo Caballero wrote:On July 01 2019 10:06 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:28 AzAlexZ wrote:On July 01 2019 09:21 BerserkSword wrote:On July 01 2019 09:17 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:11 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:07 fLyiNgDroNe wrote:On July 01 2019 09:03 deacon.frost wrote:On July 01 2019 09:01 Anc13nt wrote:
it's hard to understand how INnovation beat Serral twice this year. He makes zerg look imba. Innovation is in better form lately than TY is. Maybe TY starts getting better from this tourney, but from his IEM run it was kinda shaky in Code S. At this point all top tier korean pros seem to be super out of shape, including Maru, and have been there for a while with sudden spikes of good play. Probably because there is someone to measure their stability against. Dark? Classic? Maru was at the top for over a year, Dark is stable for ages, similarly Classic. It's not like there's no one, but it's harder to be stable in a harsher environment. The 2018 for Inno was weird, but now he appears to be in the stable mode again. What is more worrisome are the deep falls of some players(e.g. Rogue). Maru isn't playing much to judge his form per se, sadly. Nah they’ve been losing quite a lot of series randomly, this is not even close to being stable. Maru had a solid run in 2018, but that was 6 months ago and since then he played a few of really sloppy games. Serral just got demolished by stats and lost a series to neeb at wesg. Serral lost a premier tournament to reynor. Edit Forgot about soo at iem and innovation x2 Stats and Neeb has the best PvZ's in the world, Inno is a beast when he decides to be one, soO's win was foretold in Ancient Egyptian and Chinese times, and predicted in the Inca and Mayan cultures and Reynor was, well, vengeful... Now Serral wins two tournaments in a row, so yeah Not taking away from Stats, Neeb, Innovation, Soo, and Reynor, as they range from Code S caliber players to some of the greatest players of all time, but it shows that Serral is hardly "stable" if you want to compare him to the other elite Koreans. Nobody wins everything, and the Korean scene is brutal compared to what Serral competes in. Juggernauts like Classic, Innovation, Rogue, Stats and Maru get knocked out before the finals simply because they have to face elite opponent after elite opponent. All I'm saying is that even if you want to consider Serral the best player on the planet (and I don't believe he is but that's another conversation), you cant say that the elite koreans are out of shape just because they are constantly put through the meat grinder that is Korean SC2 while Serral just farms wins against foreigners for the most part So I looked it up because I was bored, going back to Jan 1 2018 Serral is 29-6 in offline BoX series against Korean players. That kind of dominance is pretty much unheard of. For comparison in that time frame Maru is 43-19 against Korean players. Dark is 48-20 (and 0-3 against Serral). Rogue was 26-6 at the end of 2017 and 4 of those losses were in SSL challenger where he didn't play serious.
http://aligulac.com/players/1662/results/?after=2017-10-01&before=2018-01-01&event=&race=ptzr&country=all&bestof=all&offline=both&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=
Where did you get your 26-6? I checked a number of other date ranges as well.
http://aligulac.com/players/1662/results/?after=2017-08-08&before=2018-03-05&event=&race=ptzr&country=all&bestof=all&offline=offline&game=all&wcs_season=&wcs_tier=&op=
This one? Where he managed to get eliminated from GSL Ro32 in the middle of it?
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Just from reading the post match comments on Reddit and TL I can see why people would be anti-fanboy tbh
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