EPTOn April 30 2019 04:21 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
daaaaaaaaaaaamn. G5L trophy goes back in the closet
daaaaaaaaaaaamn. G5L trophy goes back in the closet
Inno is still in the tournament
[GSL 2019] Season 2 - Ro32 Group A - Page 17
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Charoisaur
Germany16085 Posts
Inno is still in the tournament | ||
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Snakestyle11
191 Posts
On April 30 2019 00:20 M2 wrote: As a person who joined SC2 community recently but with a lot of BW experience, my opinion regarding Maru arguments is that SC2 looks to me as a much more let me find the word...I guess much more exploitable game, there are way too many ways to lose or to win. No matter how good you are prepared, how good is your macro, micro etc. you cant even get close to patch all the holes that can lose you a game. In that sense, players like Flash, Jaedong, Iloveoov etc from BW who were able to dominate every single game they played does not look achievable in SC2, at least in the state the game is atm, cannot comment for the previous expansions. So what Maru is doing atm is as close to what the BW bonjwas were doing as much as the game he plays allows it. Just my 2 cents. This is pretty accurate. It is mostly due to how low the macro skill ceiling is compared to broodwar, and due to how hard some of the counters are in sc2. Aoe/Splash damage is also insane in SC2. In broodwar, even flash didnt macro perfectly. Its almost impossible to do with how much stuff is going on in a normal game. Creating scvs, sending scvs to mine, clicking individually on each production facility to make them produce...No group hotkeys for multiple buildings. Also bases mined out a lot slower, you were not FORCED to expand as fast. You could only select 12 units per group, making the deathball finishing move harder to execute. Players could defend easier with fewer units because of that reason and because defender advantage was stronger ( highground). There was no warp-ins, no warp-prism, no offensive nydus, no medivac boosts. It was harder to capitalize on a lead by warp-in in 12 zealots in the main and sending huge army at the front. It was much easier to stabilize and come back in broodwar, especially if you were a superior player with macro constantly better than your opponent that would snowball the longer the game went, even if you were behind. | ||
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Elentos
55586 Posts
On April 30 2019 04:30 Toua wrote: Hopefully we can finaly see another zerg champion Well it's not like Maru has been preventing Zerg champions left and right. He's prevented 3 (possibly 4) Protoss championships. | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5524 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12131 Posts
On April 30 2019 05:30 Elentos wrote: Well it's not like Maru has been preventing Zerg champions left and right. He's prevented 3 (possibly 4) Protoss championships. Maru Dark(RO4) 4-2 Maru Rogue(RO8) 3-2 (which many rated as the finals of that season) While those two weren't in the finals, Rogue had the form to do it and we can't tell what Dark would be able to do to Zest considering how bad he was(maybe just Maru was that good, who knows) On April 30 2019 07:56 Anc13nt wrote: Wow Patience is a madman lol. Happy that Inno won. I'm hoping that Inno, Classic, Dark or Stats wins this whole tournament. Dark won't win, he will get to RO4 at best, if he gets some crazy schemes running at group selection and everything goes right I can see him getting 2nd place, but realistically there are at least 2 players better at him in BO7. (Stats & Classic) Inno ends at RO8 IMO. Edit> To clear the Inno thing out - he's bad in PvT, strong in TvT and TvZ. Considering two biggest names to get the title at the moment are Classic and Stats and Inno's PvT... uhm, he would have to have bracket luck where somebody else kicks out all the Protoss players and then meet some Zerg in the finals. Which I don't see happening in the current Zerg situation. And somehow I cannot see TvT finals either, Inno would have to have too many things going his way. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 30 2019 09:52 deacon.frost wrote: Maru Dark(RO4) 4-2 Maru Rogue(RO8) 3-2 (which many rated as the finals of that season) While those two weren't in the finals, Rogue had the form to do it and we can't tell what Dark would be able to do to Zest considering how bad he was(maybe just Maru was that good, who knows) Dark won't win, he will get to RO4 at best, if he gets some crazy schemes running at group selection and everything goes right I can see him getting 2nd place, but realistically there are at least 2 players better at him in BO7. (Stats & Classic) Inno ends at RO8 IMO. Edit> To clear the Inno thing out - he's bad in PvT, strong in TvT and TvZ. Considering two biggest names to get the title at the moment are Classic and Stats and Inno's PvT... uhm, he would have to have bracket luck where somebody else kicks out all the Protoss players and then meet some Zerg in the finals. Which I don't see happening in the current Zerg situation. And somehow I cannot see TvT finals either, Inno would have to have too many things going his way. What makes you so sure that Dark will not be able to overcome his curse? Others have done it in the past. Inno's prediction seems pretty on point(too many Protoss around), his TvT shouldn't be better than TY's anyway. | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1161 Posts
On April 30 2019 03:43 BerserkSword wrote: This is wrong. Huge comebacks are possible, especially in TvP and TvZ sc2 also has almost same degree of of comeback potential as in wc3 if the skill difference is there. it's like I'm reading a comment by somehow who has never played a single game of wc3 or sc2. what I wrote isn't even remotely controversial. but ok, show me a replay / vod of a pro terran making a comeback vP the sc2 equivalent of this game would be probably involve some kind of mid-game max with low-tech units; imagine protoss 190 supply (mostly gateway units) vs terran 130 supply (mostly infantry) and terran still winning | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
Nice, still in the race for 4th GSL ! | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On April 30 2019 12:31 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Patience's games were disgusting. Shades of early LOTV... Congratulations on destroying Innovation and Maru I guess... Yeah Patience looking pretty strong so far this year. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 30 2019 10:03 SHODAN wrote: it's like I'm reading a comment by somehow who has never played a single game of wc3 or sc2. what I wrote isn't even remotely controversial. but ok, show me a replay / vod of a pro terran making a comeback vP https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T0XJSR_xQBk&t=918s the sc2 equivalent of this game would be probably involve some kind of mid-game max with low-tech units; imagine protoss 190 supply (mostly gateway units) vs terran 130 supply (mostly infantry) and terran still winning Taeja vs Zest Maru vs Neeb | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
and these cats want to act like there are no comebacks in starcraft 2 | ||
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SHODAN
United Kingdom1161 Posts
On April 30 2019 14:05 BerserkSword wrote: hell, gumiho just eliminated dark last super tournament in a game where dark was consistently 60+ supply above gumiho lmao and these cats want to act like there are no comebacks in starcraft 2 why'd you link Maru vs Neeb? Maru wasn't far behind at any point during that game well done digging 3 years into the past for the obscure Taeja example. not much of a comeback though, is it? Taeja is equal or ahead in army supply the entire game. Zest has a better economy but no tech, no storm, no colossus, no splash, no dick, no balls. failed gateway all-in into 100 supply pure gateway with 1/1 upgrades vs. 100 supply marauder-heavy MMM with 1/1 upgrades + liberator, on an antiquated map with easily accessible island bases - gee, I wonder who won that one I already wrote that you can make some magic happen in TvZ, but ok | ||
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Toua
Denmark318 Posts
On April 30 2019 05:30 Elentos wrote: Well it's not like Maru has been preventing Zerg champions left and right. He's prevented 3 (possibly 4) Protoss championships. I know, I just hope korean zerg players step up their games and stop choking all the time ... Dark ... | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany16085 Posts
He has 3 Code S and 1 GSL vs the world - same as Mvp for whom the G5L trophy was originally made. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 30 2019 15:56 SHODAN wrote: why'd you link Maru vs Neeb? Maru wasn't far behind at any point during that game well done digging 3 years into the past for the obscure Taeja example. not much of a comeback though, is it? Taeja is equal or ahead in army supply the entire game. Zest has a better economy but no tech, no storm, no colossus, no splash, no dick, no balls. failed gateway all-in into 100 supply pure gateway with 1/1 upgrades vs. 100 supply marauder-heavy MMM with 1/1 upgrades + liberator, on an antiquated map with easily accessible island bases - gee, I wonder who won that one I already wrote that you can make some magic happen in TvZ, but ok what are you smoking dude vs Neeb, there was a point in the game when Maru was around 30 supply down, 20 workers down, a bunch of lvl 3 upgrades denied, tech structures/infrastructure destroyed, Neeb with the bank, but Maru turned it around and won you need to watch taeja vs zest again. at about 10 minutes in Taeja's economy is in shambles and Zest is reguarly 50-60 supply ahead until taeja makes his comeback In any case, I don't have a list of TvP games that fit your completely arbitrary 190 vs 130 supply criteria at the top of my head. I literally just picked the two that immediately came to mind since they more or less matched. Not all comebacks have to be "epic" either...some can be smaller but significant. So many times a Protoss or Zerg player gets like a 20 worker lead and then the Terran player just turtles and makes his comeback. regarding vZ, you said the comebacks of sc2 are nothing like the comebacks of wc3. and i just gave u two examples of sc2 players making comebacks despite being down 60-70 supply for periods of time here's another 60-70 supply comeback | ||
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deacon.frost
Czech Republic12131 Posts
On April 30 2019 17:49 BerserkSword wrote: what are you smoking dude vs Neeb, there was a point in the game when Maru was around 30 supply down, 20 workers down, a bunch of lvl 3 upgrades denied, tech structures/infrastructure destroyed, Neeb with the bank, but Maru turned it around and won you need to watch taeja vs zest again. at about 10 minutes in Taeja's economy is in shambles and Zest is reguarly 50-60 supply ahead until taeja makes his comeback In any case, I don't have a list of TvP games that fit your completely arbitrary 190 vs 130 supply criteria at the top of my head. I literally just picked the two that immediately came to mind since they more or less matched. Not all comebacks have to be "epic" either...some can be smaller but significant. So many times a Protoss or Zerg player gets like a 20 worker lead and then the Terran player just turtles and makes his comeback. regarding vZ, you said the comebacks of sc2 are nothing like the comebacks of wc3. and i just gave u two examples of sc2 players making comebacks despite being down 60-70 supply for periods of time here's another 60-70 supply comeback https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMXo2g94ru0 Neeb v Maru got its own episode, but let's rewatch it together. yes, Maru got pressured and it was 170 against 200 supply when the denial of 3/3 happened, that was big but Neeb wasn't able to press this so that's a minor comeback but not a big one. At the same time Neeb loses Probes while Maru has MULEs, Maru lost less minerals than Neeb did, so Neebs economy is hit harder than Marus! Maru's losses were mostly in the gas(it was something about 9k/3k vs Neeb's 11k/1k). So the game was essentially equal besides upgrades. And here comes the kicker. AFter some skirmishes and tempest/oracle shenanigans we get those DTs sniping PF. WOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. And then Neeb LOSES those DTs. That was what, 10 DTs? 1k/1k over a PF of Terran who has at least 2 spare CCs? Uhm... uhm... Maru played very well and was defensively using the strongest Terran weapons on a map that's good for this style. I believe that on any other map Neeb would have won during the 3/3 denial. But again, it wasn't that huge comeback, Neeb was worse at army control and he wasn't that far ahead thanks to Maru being the better player. Edit> for example at one point was Neeb like "oy mate! i'm gonna kill you!" and Maru was like "nah mate, pawn da protoss" and EMPed all his templars  Neeb then was "ok mate, i'm gonna kill you later!"  | ||
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DieuCure
France3713 Posts
On April 30 2019 17:01 Charoisaur wrote: He has 3 Code S and 1 GSL vs the world - same as Mvp for whom the G5L trophy was originally made. So you give the same value to an (popularity)invitational as a real GSL ? What a joke. | ||
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Phredxor
New Zealand15076 Posts
On April 30 2019 18:31 DieuCure wrote: So you give the same value to an (popularity)invitational as a real GSL ? What a joke. More importantly Gom does. | ||
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