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On April 20 2019 02:17 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness.
It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe.
And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch???
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On April 20 2019 02:58 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 02:17 Xain0n wrote:On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe. And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch???
That's technically not true: Zerg performed way worse than Terran, who could still win the tournament(it's unlikely, of course; their performance in qualifiers was atrocious, indeed); at IEM, qualifiers were fine, the actual tournament was the problem. Code S S1 qualifiers were bad for Terran but they did well in the tournament(Maru won the event, but even if we discard that, Terran had a very efficient conversion rate into ro16).
Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating.
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SOOOOOOOOO NOOOOOOOO
now the only two players left to root for are gumigod and $0$
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On April 20 2019 02:38 Moonerz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games.
And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special
Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting
Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else.
Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv
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Northern Ireland24385 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:05 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 02:58 Charoisaur wrote:On April 20 2019 02:17 Xain0n wrote:On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe. And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch??? That's technically not true: Zerg performed way worse than Terran, who could still win the tournament(it's unlikely, of course; their performance in qualifiers was atrocious, indeed); at IEM, qualifiers were fine, the actual tournament was the problem. Code S S1 qualifiers were bad for Terran but they did well in the tournament(Maru won the event, but even if we discard that, Terran had a very efficient conversion rate into ro16). Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating.
Largely this does tend to be the case and it's such a small sample size that it's super hard to differentiate a trend from just a fluke weekend or whatever.
I think Protoss would win more tournaments if mechanics scaled better for them, even if they were nerfed in other ways. Kinda been how I wanted aspects of the race tweaked since Wings, just for personal preference in both playing and watching.
I mean we've seen this borne out enough times, the tools and stuff Protoss can pull off are super annoying sometimes to play against on ladder, or watching a tournament, equally Protoss can't gain nearly as much advantage mechanically when they hit a certain ceiling vs the other two races.
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were any of the series worth watching? I caught most of sOs vs Solar and then went to bed
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(in response to ppl complaining about gomtvt)
TvT is a delight and a treasure to watch. PvP is not. ZvZ was not, until LotV when it became exciting.
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On April 20 2019 03:12 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 02:38 Moonerz wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games. And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else. Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv
Not really sure about what the point you're trying to make is. WESG is a ton of money but to win it you only have to play one or two real series. Zerg just won IEM and last Blizzcon? No one is having a heart attack over Protoss results. Zest/Stats are two of favorite players. I think most people are talking about the abundance of Toss this tourney (7/8 remaining players). I'm mostly coming at this from a viewer POV, I'd much rather have different Mu's than the same one being spammed all day.
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Protoss isn't even 2/5 in premier tournaments in 2019. It's 1/6 and the sole win was neeb in NA which might as well mean Protoss won nothing
The super tournament should put them on the map. Inb4 gumiho wins
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On April 20 2019 03:52 Moonerz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 03:12 BerserkSword wrote:On April 20 2019 02:38 Moonerz wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games. And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else. Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv Not really sure about what the point you're trying to make is. WESG is a ton of money but to win it you only have to play one or two real series. Zerg just won IEM and last Blizzcon? No one is having a heart attack over Protoss results. Zest/Stats are two of favorite players. I think most people are talking about the abundance of Toss this tourney (7/8 remaining players).
The point I'm making is that overperformance of one race at one small premier tournament is not a telling sign of imbalance of that race especially when you realize that another race has been over performing in much bigger veins.
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On April 20 2019 03:53 BerserkSword wrote:
Protoss isn't even 2/5 in premier tournaments in 2019. It's 1/6 and the sole win was neeb in NA which might as well mean Protoss won nothing
The super tournament should put them on the map. Inb4 gumiho wins
Super tournament is the sixth, I forgot there was still Gumiho around.
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On April 20 2019 03:05 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 02:58 Charoisaur wrote:On April 20 2019 02:17 Xain0n wrote:On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe. And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch??? Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating.
The funny part is that since then protoss was met with only nerfs except tempest, and Terran got some buffs and the same crowd is now saying the problem is getting worse
If we assume they are correct what does that even imply? That most Terran pros are just patch terrans? (Obviously I don't think this is the case )
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Northern Ireland24385 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:52 Moonerz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 03:12 BerserkSword wrote:On April 20 2019 02:38 Moonerz wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games. And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else. Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv Not really sure about what the point you're trying to make is. WESG is a ton of money but to win it you only have to play one or two real series. Zerg just won IEM and last Blizzcon? No one is having a heart attack over Protoss results. Zest/Stats are two of favorite players. I think most people are talking about the abundance of Toss this tourney (7/8 remaining players). I'm mostly coming at this from a viewer POV, I'd much rather have different Mu's than the same one being spammed all day.
You have to qualify for WESG though, especially given there tend to be mismatches there it's the easiest money in the current SC2 scene so presumably the Koreans bust a gut to get to that tournament.
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On April 20 2019 03:12 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 02:38 Moonerz wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games. And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else. Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv
Zest and sOs have both had enormous holes in their play for at least two years now
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You have to qualify for WESG though, especially given there tend to be mismatches there it's the easiest money in the current SC2 scene so presumably the Koreans bust a gut to get to that tournament.
Yeah no doubt the KR qualifier is tougher than the real tourney.
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On April 20 2019 04:09 BerserkSword wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 03:05 Xain0n wrote:On April 20 2019 02:58 Charoisaur wrote:On April 20 2019 02:17 Xain0n wrote:On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe. And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch??? Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating. The funny part is that since then protoss was met with only nerfs except tempest, and Terran got some buffs and the same crowd is now saying the problem is getting worse If we assume they are correct what does that even imply? That most Terran pros are just patch terrans? (Obviously I don't think this is the case )
"Only nerfs" like warp gate research speed or the cheaper robotics? Observer speed buff which isnt that significant.
In PvZ protoss mid game is way too good now. Immortals are beyond broken and the warp prism costs nothing compared to its real value.
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How much longer are we going to let PvP ruin viewership before we recognize there's a problem?
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Northern Ireland24385 Posts
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Northern Ireland24385 Posts
On April 20 2019 04:33 Spirit_HUN wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2019 04:09 BerserkSword wrote:On April 20 2019 03:05 Xain0n wrote:On April 20 2019 02:58 Charoisaur wrote:On April 20 2019 02:17 Xain0n wrote:On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote:On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote:On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote:On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote:
The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe. And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch??? Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating. The funny part is that since then protoss was met with only nerfs except tempest, and Terran got some buffs and the same crowd is now saying the problem is getting worse If we assume they are correct what does that even imply? That most Terran pros are just patch terrans? (Obviously I don't think this is the case ) "Only nerfs" like warp gate research speed or the cheaper robotics? Observer speed buff which isnt that significant. In PvZ protoss mid game is way too good now. Immortals are beyond broken and the warp prism costs nothing compared to its real value.
Probably, again they’re band aid fixes if you take them away Protoss has what exactly?
Protoss always has real problems balancing because they need good offensive options, but rather than make their stock stuff more microable, or add a new unit that scales with micro and is versatile, they get crazy good weapons and the same issues with their stock army remain.
So we get the Oracle which was a game-ending worker shredder for a while and suites being proxied.
The warp prism has continually been buffed, true. I’d argue it’s too strong in ways but equally Protoss basically need it to be that strong.
Protoss don’t have units quick enough to manoeuvre the map and do runbys like hellions or zerglings, nor do they have the ability to micro well and do consistent damage by splitting their army like Terran bio or drops.
You can break Protoss in PvZ, very, very easily. They win by having options that they can disguise, and mixing them up. If you remove options that Zergs can misread, Zergs will destroy Protoss pretty quickly in that matchup.
I can’t say I like some of the big book of Protoss bullshit by any means, they do kind of need to have that book to be competitive.
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just realized i went 1/8 on liquibets for this first round of play, that's less than ideal. thank sOs at least
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EPT
