EPT
Super Tournament 1
Streams & Casters
Format
- Single-elimination bracket.
- Round of 16: Bo5.
- Quarterfinals: Bo5.
- Semifinals: Bo5.
- Finals: Bo7.
Map Pool
Day Two
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4797.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1101.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/958.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/977.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/682.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/5308.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/634.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/680.jpg)
Results
CSS: FO-nTTaX
Awesomeness: Panda
Banner: GSL
[GSL 2019] Super Tournament 1 - Day 2
| Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments |
Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
Map Pool CSS: FO-nTTaX Awesomeness: Panda Banner: GSL | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
Poll: Solar vs sOs sOs Wins (23) Solar Wins (9) 32 total votes Your vote: Solar vs sOs Poll: Dear vs Zest Zest Wins (17) Dear Wins (13) 30 total votes Your vote: Dear vs Zest Poll: herO vs Patience herO Wins (18) Patience Wins (8) 26 total votes Your vote: herO vs Patience Poll: Classic vs soO Classic Wins (14) soO Wins (13) 27 total votes Your vote: Classic vs soO | ||
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Kalera
United States338 Posts
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Myrddrael
United Kingdom291 Posts
 sOs 3 - 2  SolarDear 3 - 1 ZestherO 3 - 0 PatienceClassic 3 - 1 soO | ||
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Myrddrael
United Kingdom291 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
sOs 0 - 3 SolarDear 0 - 3 ZestherO[jOin] 0 - 3 PatienceClassic 3 - 0 soO3-0 day let's go! | ||
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
On April 19 2019 05:44 Myrddrael wrote: This starts earlier than it did today, right? Both calendar and liqqypiddy say it is 08:00 GMT (+00:00) again. | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
Solar 1-3 sOsZest 3-1 Dear herO 3-1 Patience soO 3-0 ClassicsOs vs Solar seems like the only good one | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On April 19 2019 09:34 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Solar 1-3 sOsZest 3-1 Dear herO 3-1 Patience soO 3-0 ClassicsOs vs Solar seems like the only good one I think soO vs Classic could have some good games | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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Colouss
United States501 Posts
Solar 3-2 sOsDear 3-1 ZestPatience 3-2 herOsoO 3-1 Classic | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17610 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Fecalfeast
Canada11355 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:09 pdd wrote: Been away from the scene for awhile and slowly catching up with the meta again. Are long back and forth macro PvPs possible? Or is it usually just going to end in a big 2 base or 3 base battle? Korean PvP usually ends on at most 3 bases with zealots and archons grinding each other. NA PvP though, you can see some 30 minute disruptor games there. Also if we take this game 1 as an indicator Solar has no chance at all. | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
 " | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:39 Elentos wrote: sOs like "What the hell man, Rogue never all-ins me when I do this build! "he couldve won if he micro'd like he normally does | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:40 BerserkSword wrote: he couldve won if he micro'd like he normally does sOs falls off micro wise compared to most of the other top Protosses (he's a slower player than them too generally). It wasn't much worse than his normal micro but definitely a lot worse than his micro on a really good day. | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:43 Elentos wrote: sOs falls off micro wise compared to most of the other top Protosses (he's a slower player than them too generally). It wasn't much worse than his normal micro but definitely a lot worse than his micro on a really good day. idk it seemed like that micro was particularly bad lol | ||
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Kuroeeah
11696 Posts
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ShAd_1337
Germany1042 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:48 Kuroeeah wrote: yesterday was some of the most fun i had watching sc2 in a long while. this series is making me reconsider staying up this late to watch. you may have to stay up another two hours before we see a great game jk, pvp is obviously the best matchup | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
also sOs: "Let's stop playing standard games now" proceeds to lose | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:49 Elentos wrote: sOs: dominates in standard game also sOs: "Let's stop playing standard games now" proceeds to lose Yeah, we get to see that so often from several players. It's weird. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
Will Solar go all-in on roach/ravager again, or will sOs derail the game? | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 17:59 Morbidius wrote: Tasteless is on fire today! Totally | ||
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Die4Ever
United States17610 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Ziggy
South Korea2105 Posts
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Sprungjeezy
United States1313 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:00 Elentos wrote: That was unbelievably pathetic. The series had its ups and downs, but that game kinda summed it up. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
sOs: 'hold my beer' | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:02 NExt wrote: I'm actually interested in Zest vs. Dear. I think they'll challenge each other if they play standard enough. I hate it when Zest tries to channel sOs We'll see, I don't think Dear has ever been a challenge for Zest when they both played standard. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:05 Elentos wrote: We'll see, I don't think Dear has ever been a challenge for Zest when they both played standard. Let's go Dear! | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:10 Penev wrote: I don't think Tasteless is aware of a site called "Aligulac" You mean error504.com? | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
I guess I do :pepehands: | ||
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
I saw Zest 3:17 Dear | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
I guess it is. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:20 DBooN wrote: Zest has a robo but is not building Immortals? Is that a thing? I guess it is. #ZestMacro | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
Pretty sure it was a decision not to build them since he didn't get a single one | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:22 sudete wrote: that was unnecessarily risky from zest Zest realized Dear lost his only observer somehow so Zest was actually perfectly fine with some DTs mixed in. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:22 DBooN wrote: Pretty sure it was a decision not to build them since he didn't get a single one Interesting decision to make if you're floating 1k | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:20 DBooN wrote: Zest has a robo but is not building Immortals? Is that a thing? I guess it is. Yeah it's a recent trend. Some players rather have more archons quickly than any immortals. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:24 sneakyfox wrote: Interesting decision to make if you're floating 1k Zest really is one of those guys who stops macroing almost completely during fights. Leading up his macro is actually pretty immaculate but warping in during fights? Nope! | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:26 Elentos wrote: Zest really is one of those guys who stops macroing almost completely during fights. Leading up his macro is actually pretty immaculate but warping in during fights? Nope! The Protoss Miser | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:29 pdd wrote: So, what needs to change so that PvP becomes less cheesy or all-inny? Play against defensive standard Stats | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:29 Elentos wrote: Artosis got so hyped for Dear's build meanwhile Zest was like "Okay why wouldn't I make an observer" It's probably a cool build when it's not a bo loss! | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:30 DBooN wrote: It's probably a cool build when it's not a bo loss! It's true, nothing counters it as hard as the proxy robo. Maybe a hidden forge | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
Worst one I reckon was TSL, team scv life. Unless that didn't translate well that was an awful team name | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
. Truly this tournament was never gonna be his. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:48 Akio wrote: Wait I turned off the stream when Solar was 2-1 in the lead like double supply about to kill sOs and now I come back to sOs winning 3-2? What on earth happened lol Immortals vs roaches basically | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
That's 2 times in a row that sOs has sort of "swept" Solar in ST, last season I believe it was a complete reverse if I'm not mistaken. Must be tough | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
Immortals and shield batteries feat. warp prism | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:48 Elentos wrote: Dear is so good in non-mirror but his PvP is a debacle . Truly this tournament was never gonna be his.Zest on the other hand And herO actually | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:51 Akio wrote: That's 2 times in a row that sOs has sort of "swept" Solar in ST, last season I believe it was a complete reverse if I'm not mistaken. Must be tough Losing to sOs in general is probably a disaster for your mentality because every part of every game screams "Wait this isn't supposed to happen". But Solar deserved it this time, game 5 was unbelievable. He pulled all his drones into a cannon rush when it was already too late. | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:52 Elentos wrote: Losing to sOs in general is probably a disaster for your mentality because every part of every game screams "Wait this isn't supposed to happen". But Solar deserved it this time, game 5 was unbelievable. He pulled all his drones into a cannon rush when it was already too late. Solar really seems to be choking recently. And those losses coming against sOs amplifies that aspect | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
I haven't given it that much thought yet, but if Zest wins the tournament odds are it ends up as the 2nd time Zest wins a Korean premier playing only the Protoss mirror. | ||
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
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CynicalDeath
Italy3207 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:59 pdd wrote: What happened to the other Hero (oGs then Liquid player)? Became irrelevant in SC2, retired, and is now an irrelevant BW player. | ||
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Toua
Denmark318 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:59 CynicalDeath wrote: LB till now = 0/6 Picking Dear over Zest was a bold move | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:59 CynicalDeath wrote: LB till now = 0/6 You're terrible at this. I can get getting a lot of them wrong but betting on Dear in PvP | ||
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CynicalDeath
Italy3207 Posts
I tried (and failed) | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
Not to mention Stats if he advances(the same can be said for Classic); sOs is unpredictable. I have no idea if Hurricane or PartinG are any good at playing mirrors. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 18:59 CynicalDeath wrote: LB till now = 0/6 It's been tough but I still went 3/6. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
I'm 4/6 but I should be 5/6. Fucking Dark and his ridiculous "I'm 50 workers up let's not mine gas and let GuMiho max out on mech" | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
I went 1/6, it's quite funny how PartinG was the only one I predicted correctly. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:06 Elentos wrote: This series was the one I was the most unsure about Liquibetting. These guys are both idiots sometimes. Maybe a lot of the time. lmao. Just can't call a game between two idiots | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:06 Elentos wrote: This series was the one I was the most unsure about Liquibetting. These guys are both idiots sometimes. Maybe a lot of the time. I went for herO because he always wins in PvP when he has no business winning. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:06 Elentos wrote: This series was the one I was the most unsure about Liquibetting. These guys are both idiots sometimes. Maybe a lot of the time. since the infamous kespa jail is no moar..one must be very courage to keep betting in koreans... | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:06 Elentos wrote: This series was the one I was the most unsure about Liquibetting. These guys are both idiots sometimes. Maybe a lot of the time. The prosecution rests its case. | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
I think I never liquidbetted a match with Patience in it right I bet herO for this one | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:26 sneakyfox wrote: Phoenix v phoenix seems a fitting end to this series Sorry but it's not a best of 3. | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
They could play Phoenix vs Phoenix 3 games in a row. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:30 DBooN wrote: They could play Phoenix vs Phoenix 3 games in a row. They can't even properly phoenix vs phoenix for 1 game. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
show mercy, for the love of god | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:30 Elentos wrote: They can't even properly phoenix vs phoenix for 1 game. They can slowly raise their phoenix game in the next 2. | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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stilt
France2746 Posts
Poor solar ! Gogo soO ! | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
These idiots have a strong sense of equality | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
TL really needs some new emotes there's none I could use that properly expresses my feelings Maybe this one  | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:39 Penev wrote: You can say I just should've betted Patience for this match but I tell you he would just lose if I did that TL really needs some new emotes there's none I could use that properly expresses my feelings Maybe this one Strongly agree. Where is the suicide emote? | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:43 sneakyfox wrote: Strongly agree. Where is the suicide emote? Now THAT'S an emote I need. God some of these games are awful | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:43 sneakyfox wrote: Strongly agree. Where is the suicide emote? we could imagine this one meaning drowning oneself in our own vomit  | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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CynicalDeath
Italy3207 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:47 CynicalDeath wrote: 0/7 wow 3/7 myself | ||
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
 2014 KeSPA CupWe're getting closer and closer. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 19:46 Penev wrote: we could imagine this one meaning drowning oneself in our own vomit lol yes, that could do for now. It does lack bleakness though, need the gun-to-the-head emote | ||
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sparklyresidue
United States5523 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Elentos
55458 Posts
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Need
566 Posts
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seemsgood
5527 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
We're already there. If soO loses here it will be even worse. | ||
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Majick
416 Posts
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Toua
Denmark318 Posts
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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StabiloBoss20
313 Posts
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Durnuu
13319 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:15 Durnuu wrote: OF COURSE minotaurs have hooves, Tasteless smh Appalling lack of knowledge in this Starcraft 2 cast tbh | ||
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Agh
United States899 Posts
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:17 Agh wrote: The background noise on the cast is extra annoying today, I've never noticed it before. Have actually just resorted to muting it. Ah yes, i woke up at 4 am and could have swore there were burglars talking in the house or something. | ||
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Toua
Denmark318 Posts
Edit: And then Artosis says the same lol | ||
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Penev
28453 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:18 Morbidius wrote: Ah yes, i woke up at 4 am and could have swore there were burglars talking in the house or something. you have some cool stuff in your house with the burglars constantly going oooooooooooooooooooohhh aaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:24 DBooN wrote: Leaving 2 immortals alive at like 2 hp... Guessing he started to macro after targeting the HTs. I was pretty triggered he didn't finish those off | ||
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
Probably any possible transition would be a better choice | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:27 Penev wrote: immortals need a buff imo, I think i saw one die today Building units that aren't 1/0 roaches would probably help. | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:27 Penev wrote: immortals need a buff imo, I think i saw one die today I think they should shoot air so we can have more protoss build diversity against mutalisk and broods, being forced into stargate every game is repetitive. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:27 Penev wrote: immortals need a buff imo, I think i saw one die today They should regain shield and hp each time they kill a units. | ||
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StabiloBoss20
313 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:27 NExt wrote: Omg classic has 12 immortals stop making roach he was dead at this point. so what... | ||
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Need
566 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:28 DBooN wrote: Building units that aren't 1/0 roaches would probably help. still, I saw one DIE today DBoon | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8435 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:28 Dav1oN wrote: soO likes to hit a brick wall with roaches... Probably any possible transition would be a better choice Classic looked like he was pre Reynor stomping with the mass immortals | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
I think nerfing their name to "Hard to kill guys" would be a better approach than buffing them. | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
The fact that barrier cooldown is above 2 seconds is the final proof that blizz balance team is just a bunch of monkeys playing with their own feces | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
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Need
566 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:28 DBooN wrote: Building units that aren't 1/0 roaches would probably help. There were plenty of ravagers and hydras | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8435 Posts
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pdd
Australia9933 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
I think the initial attack could've worked with better execution. After that his unit comp was just inferior with inferior upgrades. | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8435 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:36 Doublemint wrote: I am quite out of the loop, but having less/equal workers as Z was never a good sign in PvZ for the Z. With nerfed injects protoss can stay pretty close, soO is also ahead 10 workers though. | ||
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Hawke0323
6 Posts
You said they were recently nerfed?OMG... | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8435 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:38 DBooN wrote: With nerfed injects protoss can stay pretty close, soO is also ahead 10 workers though. 1 round of drones does that  nerfed injects. interesting. might fire up sc2 again ^^ | ||
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Akio
Finland1838 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
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Doublemint
Austria8435 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
damn you Patience! | ||
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sudete
Singapore3054 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
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VHbb
689 Posts
I like the matchup and always root for the toss great results!  | ||
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Ciaus_Dronu
South Africa1848 Posts
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Nerchio
Poland2633 Posts
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yht9657
1810 Posts
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Andi_Goldberger
Germany1608 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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neutralrobot
Australia1025 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:41 Fango wrote: When was the last time there were 7 players of one race in a ro8? ever? May be the first. At least it simplifies GumiGod practice if he beats Stats tournament is his | ||
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Need
566 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:42 Ciaus_Dronu wrote: With this bracket I'm glad to have so much time freed to do other things. Like watching Nerchio get demolished tomorrow by Serral | ||
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JohnMatrix
France1355 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
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VHbb
689 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:43 NExt wrote: ever? May be the first. At least it simplifies GumiGod practice if he beats Stats tournament is his Really? I'd say every player except perhaps Patience can beat Gumiho | ||
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Doublemint
Austria8435 Posts
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NExt
Australia1651 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:44 sneakyfox wrote: Really? I'd say every player except perhaps Patience can beat Gumiho I'd agree but I'd say Stats is the overall favourite. So if he can take him out, chances are he can out the others too. | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
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CynicalDeath
Italy3207 Posts
btw, I went 1/8 | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:45 Doublemint wrote: lol. that bracket. what the heck happened? Toss actually OP or are the others taking a break? and damn you PvP. I like Patience but damn why you gotta eliminate the better player... I think it's just an anomaly. They haven't really been that dominant otherwise, though PvT is kinda fucked. | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:42 yht9657 wrote: A good start to another year where Protoss only wins the most irrelevant event which is the super tournament. Code S = only relevant event for terran Super Cup = only relevant event for toss | ||
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swarminfestor
Malaysia2429 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:47 Fango wrote: Code S = only relevant event for terran Super Cup = only relevant event for toss which leaves WCS's for zerg geez.. | ||
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Need
566 Posts
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
They won the last two blizzcons and last four IEMs as well | ||
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ilikeredheads
Canada1995 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
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Penev
28453 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:50 Fango wrote: They won the last two blizzcons and last four IEMs as well sshhh | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:47 Fango wrote: Code S = only relevant event for terran Super Cup = only relevant event for toss Let me correct you! Code S=Event relevant only for Maru. WESG=Only relevant event for Terran. | ||
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:52 sneakyfox wrote: At least TY is streaming... A game against a Protoss... | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
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Toua
Denmark318 Posts
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DBooN
Germany2727 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote: The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. Aside from the fact you just randomly made that up, TvT is a better matchup than PvP. | ||
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yht9657
1810 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:53 Xain0n wrote: Let me correct you! Code S=Event relevant only for Maru. WESG=Only relevant event for Terran. Yeah for whatever reason Terrans always dominate WESG, I guess money is a really good motive? | ||
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kajtarp
Hungary465 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:41 Doublemint wrote: that looked super clean and awesome by Classic. surely not fun for Z to watch though :p what was super clean and awesome about that? 4 bruised immortal helding an entire army of zerg alone? I don't complain about game 3 because the last fight was really terribly controlled by soO... | ||
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
And he got the W | ||
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JohnMatrix
France1355 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
Although as a viewer I’ve always got ground down with too much of the same matchup for that much of a tourney | ||
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xelnaga_empire
627 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:41 Fango wrote: When was the last time there were 7 players of one race in a ro8? I don't think there has ever been 7 players of one race in the ro8 in a major Korean tournament. Not even during the Gom TvsT era. | ||
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Tchado
Jordan1831 Posts
Still gonna be a great tournament none the less | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 19 2019 21:32 xelnaga_empire wrote: I don't think there has ever been 7 players of one race in the ro8 in a major Korean tournament. Not even during the Gom TvsT era. As we made clear before, KeSPA Cup 2014 had 6 Protoss in the Ro8, I think that's pretty much the height of it. Not sure about WCS though, could have had some real WZS experiences. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 19 2019 21:51 Elentos wrote: As we made clear before, KeSPA Cup 2014 had 6 Protoss in the Ro8, I think that's pretty much the height of it. Not sure about WCS though, could have had some real WZS experiences. there must have been a 7 T bracket, at least once, i need to check the stats | ||
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CynicalDeath
Italy3207 Posts
On April 19 2019 21:59 Geo.Rion wrote: there must have been a 7 T bracket, at least once, i need to check the stats 2011 Global StarCraft II League October/Code S"just" 6 here | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 19 2019 20:55 Xain0n wrote: The very weid fact is that you would be all so happy if we had 7/8 Terran left. I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
This super tournament is just a bit of a weird outlier in a perfect storm sense. GOmTvT also had a bunch of players who were only really relevant and who dropped off afterwards | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
I don’t see Dark or soO losing to the weaker Protoss players, and the weaker ones there were a few mirrors You could almost not have fixed better brackets if someone set you the goal to have as many Protoss in Ro8 if you’d tried. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 19 2019 22:27 Wombat_NI wrote: Maru got probably the best Protoss. I don’t see Dark or soO losing to the weaker Protoss players, and the weaker ones there were a few mirrors You could almost not have fixed better brackets if someone set you the goal to have as many Protoss in Ro8 if you’d tried. Sure you could explain away anything like that. Rogue? it was an upset, one time fluke Maru? got screwed by the bracket, could have won anyways Dark, Solar, Soo? yeah, bracket-luck, they 100% would have won vs Zest, am i right? | ||
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stilt
France2746 Posts
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terribleplayer1
95 Posts
Now we see ZvP without the 5 armor nydus also seems pretty problematic. Maybe they shouldnt have nerfed queens hydras and creep all on the same patch, just a thought. I don't think this is an accident, we're probably going to have mass protoss in GSL as well. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote: I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4902 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. people complain every WCS because there is an overwhelming amount of those! | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2623 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Any good matches from day 1 and 2? | ||
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Moonerz
United States442 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Damn it's a bad time to be anything but Protoss right now. Any good matches from day 1 and 2? Watch Maru Stats 100% especially game 4. Balance discussion aside this race distribution won't help viewership which is a shame. Hopefully this trend does't continue. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. That's pretty much always the case, regardless of the actual state of the game, for whatever reason. Unfortunately for the variety of this tournament, Terrans especially had a pretty bad day at the office when it came to the qualification stage, and even then brackets weren't great either. On current shape the weaker Protoss either got mirrors, or they played the relative weaker Zergs, the better Toss got the better Zergs. The best Terran got probably the best Protoss. Rogue I think was a bit of an upset for sure and doesn't fit that vague pattern I wouldn't say it's absolutely a 50/50 coinflip, more many matchups were one I wouldn't have been surprised if either player had won, it just so happened the Protoss won them this weekend. None of Classic/soO, Solar/sOs, Maru/Stats or Parting/Rag IMO were particularly unexpected at all, I don't see Parting beating those other two Zergs PvZ Yes I think it sucks although plenty of PvP to gain inspiration from, I just don't think there's much going on this Super Tourney that isn't mostly explicable without going near balance talk. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:06 Moonerz wrote: Watch Maru Stats 100% especially game 4. Balance discussion aside this race distribution won't help viewership which is a shame. Hopefully this trend does't continue. Hopefully indeed, although is it really actually a trend? Next GSL season is 12 Protoss, 9 Terran and 11 Zerg overall. From just the qualifiers it's 10 Protoss, 8 Terran, 10 Zergs. We'll have to see how the tournament itself looks when it kicks into gear, it is pretty bloody solid racial distribution to start with though. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:31 Wombat_NI wrote: Hopefully indeed, although is it really actually a trend? Next GSL season is 12 Protoss, 9 Terran and 11 Zerg overall. From just the qualifiers it's 10 Protoss, 8 Terran, 10 Zergs. We'll have to see how the tournament itself looks when it kicks into gear, it is pretty bloody solid racial distribution to start with though. It's hard to fuck up racial distribution in a 32 player tournament when your player base is 40 people which are evenly distributed across the races. That said, the race distribution at IEM was also already fucked up (but differently from here). | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Damn it's a bad time to be anything but Protoss right now. Any good matches from day 1 and 2? Maru vs Stats might be series of the year. Ridiculous show of skill from both players. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:36 Elentos wrote: It's hard to fuck up racial distribution in a 32 player tournament when your player base is 40 people which are evenly distributed across the races. That said, the race distribution at IEM was also already fucked up. Pretty much. Just check out GSL race distribution after day 1 of the qualifier where it was 7 P 5 T 2 Z, which isn't that bad aside from 2 Z but still. | ||
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Elentos
55458 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:48 HolydaKing wrote: Pretty much. Just check out GSL race distribution after day 1 of the qualifier where it was 7 P 5 T 2 Z, which isn't that bad aside from 2 Z but still. Btw MC has the dubious honor of being the only Protoss player who showed up to the GSL qualifiers that didn't qualify. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote: Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:06 Moonerz wrote: Watch Maru Stats 100% especially game 4. Balance discussion aside this race distribution won't help viewership which is a shame. Hopefully this trend does't continue. Thank you. That game 4 was in fact amazing. | ||
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Moonerz
United States442 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games. | ||
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Charoisaur
Germany15878 Posts
On April 20 2019 02:17 Xain0n wrote: Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe. And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch??? | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 20 2019 02:58 Charoisaur wrote: It's the 2nd tournament where terran severely underperformed. 2 "accidents" in such a short time span while this basically never happens usually except GomTvT/Blink/BLInfestor era? Seems hard to believe. And why do you bring up statistics from last year on a completely different patch??? That's technically not true: Zerg performed way worse than Terran, who could still win the tournament(it's unlikely, of course; their performance in qualifiers was atrocious, indeed); at IEM, qualifiers were fine, the actual tournament was the problem. Code S S1 qualifiers were bad for Terran but they did well in the tournament(Maru won the event, but even if we discard that, Terran had a very efficient conversion rate into ro16). Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating. | ||
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
now the only two players left to root for are gumigod and $0$ | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 20 2019 02:38 Moonerz wrote: To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games. And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else. Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:05 Xain0n wrote: That's technically not true: Zerg performed way worse than Terran, who could still win the tournament(it's unlikely, of course; their performance in qualifiers was atrocious, indeed); at IEM, qualifiers were fine, the actual tournament was the problem. Code S S1 qualifiers were bad for Terran but they did well in the tournament(Maru won the event, but even if we discard that, Terran had a very efficient conversion rate into ro16). Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating. Largely this does tend to be the case and it's such a small sample size that it's super hard to differentiate a trend from just a fluke weekend or whatever. I think Protoss would win more tournaments if mechanics scaled better for them, even if they were nerfed in other ways. Kinda been how I wanted aspects of the race tweaked since Wings, just for personal preference in both playing and watching. I mean we've seen this borne out enough times, the tools and stuff Protoss can pull off are super annoying sometimes to play against on ladder, or watching a tournament, equally Protoss can't gain nearly as much advantage mechanically when they hit a certain ceiling vs the other two races. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
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fishjie
United States1519 Posts
TvT is a delight and a treasure to watch. PvP is not. ZvZ was not, until LotV when it became exciting. | ||
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Moonerz
United States442 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:12 BerserkSword wrote: And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else. Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv Not really sure about what the point you're trying to make is. WESG is a ton of money but to win it you only have to play one or two real series. Zerg just won IEM and last Blizzcon? No one is having a heart attack over Protoss results. Zest/Stats are two of favorite players. I think most people are talking about the abundance of Toss this tourney (7/8 remaining players). I'm mostly coming at this from a viewer POV, I'd much rather have different Mu's than the same one being spammed all day. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
The super tournament should put them on the map. Inb4 gumiho wins | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:52 Moonerz wrote: Not really sure about what the point you're trying to make is. WESG is a ton of money but to win it you only have to play one or two real series. Zerg just won IEM and last Blizzcon? No one is having a heart attack over Protoss results. Zest/Stats are two of favorite players. I think most people are talking about the abundance of Toss this tourney (7/8 remaining players). The point I'm making is that overperformance of one race at one small premier tournament is not a telling sign of imbalance of that race especially when you realize that another race has been over performing in much bigger veins. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:53 BerserkSword wrote: Protoss isn't even 2/5 in premier tournaments in 2019. It's 1/6 and the sole win was neeb in NA which might as well mean Protoss won nothing The super tournament should put them on the map. Inb4 gumiho wins Super tournament is the sixth, I forgot there was still Gumiho around. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:05 Xain0n wrote: Because people were screaming of Protoss op last year already; In 2019 Protoss is 2/5, also not that dominating. The funny part is that since then protoss was met with only nerfs except tempest, and Terran got some buffs and the same crowd is now saying the problem is getting worse If we assume they are correct what does that even imply? That most Terran pros are just patch terrans? (Obviously I don't think this is the case ) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:52 Moonerz wrote: Not really sure about what the point you're trying to make is. WESG is a ton of money but to win it you only have to play one or two real series. Zerg just won IEM and last Blizzcon? No one is having a heart attack over Protoss results. Zest/Stats are two of favorite players. I think most people are talking about the abundance of Toss this tourney (7/8 remaining players). I'm mostly coming at this from a viewer POV, I'd much rather have different Mu's than the same one being spammed all day. You have to qualify for WESG though, especially given there tend to be mismatches there it's the easiest money in the current SC2 scene so presumably the Koreans bust a gut to get to that tournament. | ||
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starkiller123
United States4029 Posts
On April 20 2019 03:12 BerserkSword wrote: And yet nobody bats an eye when stats code S tour is ended by Cure. Or when world class players in zest and sOs don't win anything anymore. Or when classic is eliminated by guys like reynor and special Innovation just won wesg and maru code S so idk what you're talking about. Terran players are making waves - in the most lucrative/most prestigious tournaments ( super tournament is small time compared to wesg and code S). Is TY really currently a top 3 Terran when gumiho is playing so well? Or are you just going off of TYs past success in which case you can't be so disparaging on parting Protoss finds some success in a lesser premier tournament and everyone has a heart attack. Protoss won like 3 premier tournaments since 2018 and they were small time. Hell one is neebs wcs NA which might as well be bush league compared to everything else. Let me know when Protoss or Zerg win every code S for two years straight. Hell let me know when Zerg wins a single code S in lotv Zest and sOs have both had enormous holes in their play for at least two years now | ||
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Moonerz
United States442 Posts
You have to qualify for WESG though, especially given there tend to be mismatches there it's the easiest money in the current SC2 scene so presumably the Koreans bust a gut to get to that tournament. Yeah no doubt the KR qualifier is tougher than the real tourney. | ||
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Spirit_HUN
24 Posts
On April 20 2019 04:09 BerserkSword wrote: The funny part is that since then protoss was met with only nerfs except tempest, and Terran got some buffs and the same crowd is now saying the problem is getting worse If we assume they are correct what does that even imply? That most Terran pros are just patch terrans? (Obviously I don't think this is the case ) "Only nerfs" like warp gate research speed or the cheaper robotics? Observer speed buff which isnt that significant. In PvZ protoss mid game is way too good now. Immortals are beyond broken and the warp prism costs nothing compared to its real value. | ||
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litLikeBic
Canada105 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On April 20 2019 04:33 Spirit_HUN wrote: "Only nerfs" like warp gate research speed or the cheaper robotics? Observer speed buff which isnt that significant. In PvZ protoss mid game is way too good now. Immortals are beyond broken and the warp prism costs nothing compared to its real value. Probably, again they’re band aid fixes if you take them away Protoss has what exactly? Protoss always has real problems balancing because they need good offensive options, but rather than make their stock stuff more microable, or add a new unit that scales with micro and is versatile, they get crazy good weapons and the same issues with their stock army remain. So we get the Oracle which was a game-ending worker shredder for a while and suites being proxied. The warp prism has continually been buffed, true. I’d argue it’s too strong in ways but equally Protoss basically need it to be that strong. Protoss don’t have units quick enough to manoeuvre the map and do runbys like hellions or zerglings, nor do they have the ability to micro well and do consistent damage by splitting their army like Terran bio or drops. You can break Protoss in PvZ, very, very easily. They win by having options that they can disguise, and mixing them up. If you remove options that Zergs can misread, Zergs will destroy Protoss pretty quickly in that matchup. I can’t say I like some of the big book of Protoss bullshit by any means, they do kind of need to have that book to be competitive. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
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sneakyfox
8216 Posts
On April 20 2019 06:27 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: just realized i went 1/8 on liquibets for this first round of play, that's less than ideal. thank sOs at least This tournament has been a complete liquibet bloodbath. I've gone 3/8 and have still advanced 30 spots in the ranking! | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 20 2019 04:21 starkiller123 wrote: Zest and sOs have both had enormous holes in their play for at least two years now The point I'm making is that for protoss players it's always "they are not playing well" and for terran players it's "they can't do anything [due to balance issues]" On April 20 2019 04:33 Spirit_HUN wrote: "Only nerfs" like warp gate research speed or the cheaper robotics? Observer speed buff which isnt that significant. In PvZ protoss mid game is way too good now. Immortals are beyond broken and the warp prism costs nothing compared to its real value. the warp gate buff means the protoss may have one extra unit if he decides he wants it....very minor. so unless you think the crux of any major tvp problem is extreme early game i dont see how this is that relevant. the limiting factor for robotics is gas...again a minuscule It's funny how your issue with PvZ is the one area of the matchup where Protoss has the chance to make use of really high opportunity cost micro. Both Immortals and Warp prisms need insane micro or they will just get overrun. It is so easy for a zerg to steamroll a protoss it's not even funny. Protoss would never be able to engage on creep to try to end the game without a warp prism either | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On April 20 2019 07:20 BerserkSword wrote: The point I'm making is that for protoss players it's always "they are not playing well" and for terran players it's "they can't do anything [due to balance issues]" the warp gate buff means the protoss may have one extra unit if he decides he wants it....very minor. so unless you think the crux of any major tvp problem is extreme early game i dont see how this is that relevant. the limiting factor for robotics is gas...again a minuscule It's funny how your issue with PvZ is the one area of the matchup where Protoss has the chance to make use of really high opportunity cost micro. Both Immortals and Warp prisms need insane micro or they will just get overrun. It is so easy for a zerg to steamroll a protoss it's not even funny. Protoss would never be able to engage on creep to try to end the game without a warp prism either Basically I mean, historically the most complained about race that wins the least tournaments that basic stuff about how they function as a race seem to be thrown out the window. In a hypothetical tournament where players had to reveal their rough plans (I’m going to play straight up macro, or ‘I’m going to all-in you) not giving away specific builds, Protoss just gets absolutely crushed PvZ, they absolutely need the ability to keep their opponents guessing and they need the potential to all-in Protoss can’t just play for the late game and win with their mechanics giving them cumulative edges. Basically everything that people praise Zergs, or Maru/TY in late game scenarios for Protoss players don’t really have the arsenal to do some of those things. They need a prism to even push a Zerg properly, strong as it might be. In earlier iterations when the game was also less developed, pylons would do the job for reinforcement, creep spread gets out too far, too quickly for that to be at all viable. | ||
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BerserkSword
United States2123 Posts
On April 20 2019 07:45 Wombat_NI wrote: Basically I mean, historically the most complained about race that wins the least tournaments that basic stuff about how they function as a race seem to be thrown out the window. In a hypothetical tournament where players had to reveal their rough plans (I’m going to play straight up macro, or ‘I’m going to all-in you) not giving away specific builds, Protoss just gets absolutely crushed PvZ, they absolutely need the ability to keep their opponents guessing and they need the potential to all-in Protoss can’t just play for the late game and win with their mechanics giving them cumulative edges. Basically everything that people praise Zergs, or Maru/TY in late game scenarios for Protoss players don’t really have the arsenal to do some of those things. They need a prism to even push a Zerg properly, strong as it might be. In earlier iterations when the game was also less developed, pylons would do the job for reinforcement, creep spread gets out too far, too quickly for that to be at all viable. yea. classic vs dark and rogue in this year's code s S1 were prime examples. Classic went to huge lengths and extremely specific preparations to have a shot at toppling them. Major gambles involving builds designed to the exact map tiles. meanwhile dark and rogue more or less just played like they would against any other protoss on any other day, and their mechanics made everything close even classic vs maru. the difference in preparation was obvious to me i suspect it's why protoss always struggles actually winning the tournaments since the finals are all best of 7. you can have only so many plans it's also why i was immensely impressed with stats vs maru. the way stats adapted to maru's new build and squeezed out that game 4 win was insane. they are both geniuses of the game | ||
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mierin
United States4943 Posts
On April 20 2019 08:21 BerserkSword wrote: yea. classic vs dark and rogue in this year's code s S1 were prime examples. Classic went to huge lengths and extremely specific preparations to have a shot at toppling them. Major gambles involving builds designed to the exact map tiles. meanwhile dark and rogue more or less just played like they would against any other protoss on any other day, and their mechanics made everything close even classic vs maru. the difference in preparation was obvious to me i suspect it's why protoss always struggles actually winning the tournaments since the finals are all best of 7. you can have only so many plans it's also why i was immensely impressed with stats vs maru. the way stats adapted to maru's new build and squeezed out that game 4 win was insane. they are both geniuses of the game Totally agree. Was a treat to watch that series. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland24390 Posts
On April 20 2019 08:21 BerserkSword wrote: yea. classic vs dark and rogue in this year's code s S1 were prime examples. Classic went to huge lengths and extremely specific preparations to have a shot at toppling them. Major gambles involving builds designed to the exact map tiles. meanwhile dark and rogue more or less just played like they would against any other protoss on any other day, and their mechanics made everything close even classic vs maru. the difference in preparation was obvious to me i suspect it's why protoss always struggles actually winning the tournaments since the finals are all best of 7. you can have only so many plans it's also why i was immensely impressed with stats vs maru. the way stats adapted to maru's new build and squeezed out that game 4 win was insane. they are both geniuses of the game Yeah it just seems that way to me anyway, long has. Depends on the bracket or other factors too I guess. I loved Stats’ PvZ opener and style he was using at IEM Katowice, at my heart I’ve always been a Rain/Stats kind of Protoss than an MC/Parting, so that opener was really cool and he took out Dark pretty convincingly, soO seemed to have taken it on board and adjusted some things by the time the final happened. Preparing for Maru must be a nightmare haha, as he’s super good with prep and he can pull out crazy cheese at one end and insane straight up play at the other. At least for Zergs it’s usually playing straight up macro with a bit of aggression to factor in Great series, was really interesting in a lot of ways. It’s nice having Artosis cast anyway, but he was especially hyped this one. I’ve only rewatched it once, Stats did lots of important things that added up, those Stalker squads did work. Also whenever they did get caught Stats made sure to target fire solely the cyclones, didn’t even waste too many volleys Which was kinda important outside of dragging Maru around the map, but also in stopping a critical mass of cyclones building up and Maru just diving on his carriers | ||
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showstealer1829
Australia3123 Posts
On April 20 2019 07:12 sneakyfox wrote: This tournament has been a complete liquibet bloodbath. I've gone 3/8 and have still advanced 30 spots in the ranking! 5/8. Which is probably why I'm rank 1 atm | ||
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Morbidius
Brazil3449 Posts
On April 20 2019 07:20 BerserkSword wrote: The point I'm making is that for protoss players it's always "they are not playing well" and for terran players it's "they can't do anything [due to balance issues]" That's grand, did anyone say Byun was playing well and getting fucked by balance in 2017? Did anyone defend Innovation's sloppyness last year? Stats lost to Cure yes, but he also lost to MC that day, he was going lose to any of the other 30 players. | ||
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skdsk
138 Posts
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