EPTThis super tournament is just a bit of a weird outlier in a perfect storm sense.
GOmTvT also had a bunch of players who were only really relevant and who dropped off afterwards
[GSL 2019] Super Tournament 1 - Day 2 - Page 13
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26351 Posts
This super tournament is just a bit of a weird outlier in a perfect storm sense. GOmTvT also had a bunch of players who were only really relevant and who dropped off afterwards | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26351 Posts
I don’t see Dark or soO losing to the weaker Protoss players, and the weaker ones there were a few mirrors You could almost not have fixed better brackets if someone set you the goal to have as many Protoss in Ro8 if you’d tried. | ||
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Geo.Rion
7377 Posts
On April 19 2019 22:27 Wombat_NI wrote: Maru got probably the best Protoss. I don’t see Dark or soO losing to the weaker Protoss players, and the weaker ones there were a few mirrors You could almost not have fixed better brackets if someone set you the goal to have as many Protoss in Ro8 if you’d tried. Sure you could explain away anything like that. Rogue? it was an upset, one time fluke Maru? got screwed by the bracket, could have won anyways Dark, Solar, Soo? yeah, bracket-luck, they 100% would have won vs Zest, am i right? | ||
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stilt
France2754 Posts
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terribleplayer1
95 Posts
Now we see ZvP without the 5 armor nydus also seems pretty problematic. Maybe they shouldnt have nerfed queens hydras and creep all on the same patch, just a thought. I don't think this is an accident, we're probably going to have mass protoss in GSL as well. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 19 2019 22:13 Fango wrote: I don't get why people say this. No we wouldn't. During GomTvT there was 6/8 at the most and terran was universally considered too strong Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. | ||
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Argonauta
Spain4967 Posts
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Argonauta
Spain4967 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. people complain every WCS because there is an overwhelming amount of those! | ||
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Lexender
Mexico2656 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
Any good matches from day 1 and 2? | ||
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Moonerz
United States461 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Damn it's a bad time to be anything but Protoss right now. Any good matches from day 1 and 2? Watch Maru Stats 100% especially game 4. Balance discussion aside this race distribution won't help viewership which is a shame. Hopefully this trend does't continue. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26351 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. That's pretty much always the case, regardless of the actual state of the game, for whatever reason. Unfortunately for the variety of this tournament, Terrans especially had a pretty bad day at the office when it came to the qualification stage, and even then brackets weren't great either. On current shape the weaker Protoss either got mirrors, or they played the relative weaker Zergs, the better Toss got the better Zergs. The best Terran got probably the best Protoss. Rogue I think was a bit of an upset for sure and doesn't fit that vague pattern I wouldn't say it's absolutely a 50/50 coinflip, more many matchups were one I wouldn't have been surprised if either player had won, it just so happened the Protoss won them this weekend. None of Classic/soO, Solar/sOs, Maru/Stats or Parting/Rag IMO were particularly unexpected at all, I don't see Parting beating those other two Zergs PvZ Yes I think it sucks although plenty of PvP to gain inspiration from, I just don't think there's much going on this Super Tourney that isn't mostly explicable without going near balance talk. | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland26351 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:06 Moonerz wrote: Watch Maru Stats 100% especially game 4. Balance discussion aside this race distribution won't help viewership which is a shame. Hopefully this trend does't continue. Hopefully indeed, although is it really actually a trend? Next GSL season is 12 Protoss, 9 Terran and 11 Zerg overall. From just the qualifiers it's 10 Protoss, 8 Terran, 10 Zergs. We'll have to see how the tournament itself looks when it kicks into gear, it is pretty bloody solid racial distribution to start with though. | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:31 Wombat_NI wrote: Hopefully indeed, although is it really actually a trend? Next GSL season is 12 Protoss, 9 Terran and 11 Zerg overall. From just the qualifiers it's 10 Protoss, 8 Terran, 10 Zergs. We'll have to see how the tournament itself looks when it kicks into gear, it is pretty bloody solid racial distribution to start with though. It's hard to fuck up racial distribution in a 32 player tournament when your player base is 40 people which are evenly distributed across the races. That said, the race distribution at IEM was also already fucked up (but differently from here). | ||
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Fango
United Kingdom8987 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:03 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: Damn it's a bad time to be anything but Protoss right now. Any good matches from day 1 and 2? Maru vs Stats might be series of the year. Ridiculous show of skill from both players. | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:36 Elentos wrote: It's hard to fuck up racial distribution in a 32 player tournament when your player base is 40 people which are evenly distributed across the races. That said, the race distribution at IEM was also already fucked up. Pretty much. Just check out GSL race distribution after day 1 of the qualifier where it was 7 P 5 T 2 Z, which isn't that bad aside from 2 Z but still. | ||
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Elentos
55566 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:48 HolydaKing wrote: Pretty much. Just check out GSL race distribution after day 1 of the qualifier where it was 7 P 5 T 2 Z, which isn't that bad aside from 2 Z but still. Btw MC has the dubious honor of being the only Protoss player who showed up to the GSL qualifiers that didn't qualify. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On April 20 2019 00:33 Lexender wrote: Because we have so many terrans and terran champions in the WCS right? 7/8 in a tournament is a sign? Most likely. Does prove toss is too imbalaced? Not yet, but saying that this has no meaning its nothing short of disengenious, and trying to steer the conversation to something that happened 8 years ago (where people DID complain that terran was IMBA) is just down right malicius. Hm, what? I'm not sure I get your point about WCS(maybe you didn't get mine as well). 7/8 in one tournament means nothing, by itself. Protoss won 4/19 Premier tournaments(three korean ones) including this one since the start of 2018(despite reaching the finals at least 14 times); this is not how imbalance looks like, whereas Terran eight years ago won a disproportionate amount of tournaments. Let's see if Protoss start dominating after Super Tournament before making any kind of claim about their supposed opness. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On April 20 2019 01:06 Moonerz wrote: Watch Maru Stats 100% especially game 4. Balance discussion aside this race distribution won't help viewership which is a shame. Hopefully this trend does't continue. Thank you. That game 4 was in fact amazing. | ||
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Moonerz
United States461 Posts
On April 19 2019 23:39 Xain0n wrote: Protoss isn't too strong right now, they are only winning Super Tournaments(and lagging behind on Aligulac) while Terran definitely were dominating every kind of competition back in GoMTvT era. PvP is not the best mirror to watch atm, I agree, I would argue ZvZ(not TvT) is and I still see people complaining every WCS; I meant many would be glad if there were Terran everywhere, regardless of balance. Let's say they seem to be the most loved race on this forum, judging by the comments. To me the most telling sign of imbalance is when you see lesser players making waves like Hurricane and Parting (right now I think it's clear hes a level below most top pros and his games vs Ragnarok were absolutely terrible) while you have Inno and TY who are 2 of the top 3 Terrans sitting at home unable to qualify. But we'll see how things shake out going forward. Like I said a little while ago there is a fine line between letting the meta settle and fixing imbalance because of the way WCS points work. As a side note, of course it's impossible to see what exactly happened during the qualifiers since we didn't see any of the games. | ||
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