On March 18 2019 01:51 Luolis wrote: [quote] Explain your point then. Why the hell would Scarlett offer up a draw in that situation?
Scarlett had no way of winning (no Corruptors vs flying buildings) - only draw or loss was an option in that position. Maru after 5-10 min of no action and scanning the map pauses and offers draw. Scarlett for whatever reason declines.
Maru offered a draw there? That changes the situation. Still stupid of Maru to not just talk to admin that scarlett cant win, but weird that Scarlett denies it in that case.
weird indeed. Maru did talk to admin also.
Well then that's just bad admining and a dubious decision by Scarlett.
I guess Scarlett just forgot Maru could fly his buildings in a corner same as Maru forgot it.
I refuse to believe that a player on Marus level would simply "forget" about Terrans natural draw mechanic. Thats just incomprehensible
Its pretty mentally exhausting to play an hour+game, in the moment he easily could have frustratingly gg'ed out.
It faster to press L then click your corner tho
I get that, but in the moment "fuck this shit I'm out" in frustration isn't this insanely unbelievable circumstance that people make it out to be. Its a huge blunder, but its not unbelievable
To me it is absolutely unbelievable lol, I think the only solution is he felt the points system win would not go in his favor, and even that doesn't make much sense. Oh well, he won anyway.
On March 17 2019 22:01 starkiller123 wrote: [quote] He didn’t have perfect series last year either, he had a bunch of close series that really could have gone either way
Well his 14-3 run at BlizzCon is the best ever and he was up 3-0 on Stats in the finals, that kind of qualifies for an almost flawless run.
I'm not speaking of dropping single maps in any of case, that can always happen in case of bo losses/unexpected strats; Serral was vulnerable between the first and second remax even at his top shape while looking unbeatable in both early and late game, he could lose games as he never really had the attitude of closing out series with a perfect scores dropping maps in every single one of his premier finals(even against Has or Mana).
What I am speaking of is the lack of gamebreaking errors and the incredibly solid decision making Serral had and seem to lacking as for now, he is sloppier with his mechanics too but those still shine in some games.
pretty sure I can point out similar mistakes in any of the maps he lost last year (throwing waves of low-tier Zerg armies into Stats' meatgrinder?). they just aren't as memorable because he still ended up winning the series
So, you are convinced this version of Innovation was the strongest opponent Serral ever met and that's entirely why he lost? As were soO and Neeb?
No? as already said he wasn't totally invincible last year either and had multiple close series that could have gone either way (vs Scarlett, Reynor, Stats, TaeJa and Inno himself). Now those games just happen to fall in favor of Serral's opponents.
Then you think Serral this March is playing approximately as good as he was at the end of 2018 and it just happened him to lose even series the same way he was winning them before?
I think the consistency Serral had in winning decisive games in 2018 wasn't just a product of fate; moreover, the 0-2 series against Neeb at WESG wasn't close at all, unlike any offline game Serral played after Nation Wars last year.
None of the games you listed took place at BlizzCon, where Serral showed us his very best shape.
Serral's ZvZ was shaky at Montreal, you forgot to list Lambo who, as well, took him to game 5.
The games against TaeJa and Inno took place at HSC where every Zerg was struggling hard against Terran, Serral lost most of these trying to figure out how ineffective Ultras were at the time despite their supposed gamechanging buff; in that regard, I can point out Serral's decision making was sharper than today's as he managed to eventually switch to Broodlords in the later games against Inno(just as he abandoned Swarmhosts against Stats at BlizzCon after having lost two consecutive games usting that strat), unlike he did today when he got stuck on that push which had already failed more than once.
The series against Stats at GSL vs the World actually responds to your criteria as Serral was in very good shape judging from his play but that's more of a testament to how incredibly undervalued Stats is; he looked incredibly solid that weekend, he was on par with Serral at delivering us great Starcraft, both could have rightfully claimed the title. Maru's and Stats' best form in 2018 severely impressed me, I haven't seen anyone playing as well this year, yet.
Thus said, I have no intention of underselling Innovation or soO who took out Serral in relevant series and both went on to win deservingly the tournaments where it happened, playing quite well; it's just that I genuinely think this year Serral hasn't been playing up to his previous standards. Observing the games, I am convinced a Serral in good shape would have defeated both of them; that's my opinion, of course, but I don't think my predilection for Serral is blinding me in this case.
I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serral as good as he was during his period of dominance; for sure, he needs a better form in order to defeat top koreans on a regular basis.
Well, if you compare him to his blizzcon form only than you may be right (although he didn't play any ZvTs there) but then I could say as well "if Inno played in his form of GSL vs the world 2017 he'd never lose". That's really a worthless thing to say because it just doesn't matter and can't be proved anyway.
Hah, what of the achievements Serral could have or could have not reached in Code S last year? Tons of wasted words, don't you think? I don't remember you being this blunt on that matter; not that's relevant to what we are discussing now, to say the truth.
I won't be offering personal views on possible outcomes doomed to remain pure speculations the next time I'll try to point out any kind of (superficial) analysis at it evidently keeps the attention from the most relevant parts.
What is exactly your last post meant to answer to? The goal of mine was to prove Serral didn't play at his best in 2019, not that his BlizzCon shape was the best ever seen in Starcraft and could have won every tournament.
Okay if you say Serral didn't play at his absoulute best (judged by his blizzcon form) then I agree with you. No player always plays at his very best every tournament though so I'm not sure what's the point of mentioning that. It just seems like an attempt at diminishing Inno's win.
It's like saying after Serral won GSL vs the world and Blizzcon "well, good for him but Stats clearly wasn't playing at his best (insert his most dominant tournament here as benchmark that Stats underperformed)"
It would have been an attempt to diminish Inno's result if I posted this out of the blue, whereas I have been consistently pointing out the quality of Serral's play was inferior since the first day of IEM Serral lost series in every single matchup, not just in ZvT against Inno; not to mention Inno was barely considered a top 3 Terran at the moment , how can saying he deserved to win against the best Zerg in the world(as Serral most likely still is and I pointed out this as well) be considered diminishing his accomplishment?
Stats was playing very well at GSL vs the World, yours would have been a dubious statement at best. If we would attempt to objectively rate Serral's performance by measuring his responsiveness and counting the mistakes he made(especially the fatal missplays) I am fairly sure it would be his current shape isn't on par not even to this very best form(BlizzCon's), but to the average performance Serral displayed during his period of dominance last year.
Honestly asking, do you really not notice any difference in Serral's play?
No. he still played very well (just look at game 6), beat Dark decisively like last year and at IEM beat everyone except Inno and soO. It's just that a few players match up very well against him so it's no surprise to see him losing (btw he avoided top terrans completely during his peak so there's no reference there - he lost 0-2 to soO at NW last year and 0-3 to Neeb at an online tournament). I don't know why it's so outrageous to think that those players can beat an in-form Serral. No, Serral underperforming MUST be the reason otherwise Serral would never lose, right?
I don't think stating Stats underperformed at GSL vs the world is more dubious than stating Serral underperformed now - he made several mistakes (not scouting BL/mutalisk techswitches, not having his army correctly positioned vs the Ling bane hydra attack in game 7) he didn't make in his matches vs Dark when he was at his peak.
If and when Innovation can act as the midwife in this illegal abortion of this eternal Maru/Serral debate, nobody can actually feel bad about it. Foreign usurpers are happy and Korean elitists are happy. Best player currently won, and the result isn't controversial.
Innovation indeed won back-to-back both Maru and Serral, and while neither of them was clean sweeps, did exactly anyone expect they would've been?
On March 18 2019 05:41 UnLarva wrote: If and when Innovation can act as the midwife in this illegal abortion of this eternal Maru/Serral debate, nobody can actually feel bad about it. Foreign usurpers are happy and Korean elitists are happy. Best player currently won, and the result isn't controversial.
Innovation indeed won back-to-back both Maru and Serral, and while neither of them was clean sweeps, did exactly anyone expect they would've been?
Credits and glory where credits and glory due!
I think it would have been very underwhelming if INno deprived us of Serral - Maru only to lose to Serral afterwards. At least he won them both, like "why would you care about these two players? I'm still a championship contender"
The odd years for INno with even years for Maru thing still seems to hold true
Well his 14-3 run at BlizzCon is the best ever and he was up 3-0 on Stats in the finals, that kind of qualifies for an almost flawless run.
I'm not speaking of dropping single maps in any of case, that can always happen in case of bo losses/unexpected strats; Serral was vulnerable between the first and second remax even at his top shape while looking unbeatable in both early and late game, he could lose games as he never really had the attitude of closing out series with a perfect scores dropping maps in every single one of his premier finals(even against Has or Mana).
What I am speaking of is the lack of gamebreaking errors and the incredibly solid decision making Serral had and seem to lacking as for now, he is sloppier with his mechanics too but those still shine in some games.
pretty sure I can point out similar mistakes in any of the maps he lost last year (throwing waves of low-tier Zerg armies into Stats' meatgrinder?). they just aren't as memorable because he still ended up winning the series
So, you are convinced this version of Innovation was the strongest opponent Serral ever met and that's entirely why he lost? As were soO and Neeb?
No? as already said he wasn't totally invincible last year either and had multiple close series that could have gone either way (vs Scarlett, Reynor, Stats, TaeJa and Inno himself). Now those games just happen to fall in favor of Serral's opponents.
Then you think Serral this March is playing approximately as good as he was at the end of 2018 and it just happened him to lose even series the same way he was winning them before?
I think the consistency Serral had in winning decisive games in 2018 wasn't just a product of fate; moreover, the 0-2 series against Neeb at WESG wasn't close at all, unlike any offline game Serral played after Nation Wars last year.
None of the games you listed took place at BlizzCon, where Serral showed us his very best shape.
Serral's ZvZ was shaky at Montreal, you forgot to list Lambo who, as well, took him to game 5.
The games against TaeJa and Inno took place at HSC where every Zerg was struggling hard against Terran, Serral lost most of these trying to figure out how ineffective Ultras were at the time despite their supposed gamechanging buff; in that regard, I can point out Serral's decision making was sharper than today's as he managed to eventually switch to Broodlords in the later games against Inno(just as he abandoned Swarmhosts against Stats at BlizzCon after having lost two consecutive games usting that strat), unlike he did today when he got stuck on that push which had already failed more than once.
The series against Stats at GSL vs the World actually responds to your criteria as Serral was in very good shape judging from his play but that's more of a testament to how incredibly undervalued Stats is; he looked incredibly solid that weekend, he was on par with Serral at delivering us great Starcraft, both could have rightfully claimed the title. Maru's and Stats' best form in 2018 severely impressed me, I haven't seen anyone playing as well this year, yet.
Thus said, I have no intention of underselling Innovation or soO who took out Serral in relevant series and both went on to win deservingly the tournaments where it happened, playing quite well; it's just that I genuinely think this year Serral hasn't been playing up to his previous standards. Observing the games, I am convinced a Serral in good shape would have defeated both of them; that's my opinion, of course, but I don't think my predilection for Serral is blinding me in this case.
I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serral as good as he was during his period of dominance; for sure, he needs a better form in order to defeat top koreans on a regular basis.
Well, if you compare him to his blizzcon form only than you may be right (although he didn't play any ZvTs there) but then I could say as well "if Inno played in his form of GSL vs the world 2017 he'd never lose". That's really a worthless thing to say because it just doesn't matter and can't be proved anyway.
Hah, what of the achievements Serral could have or could have not reached in Code S last year? Tons of wasted words, don't you think? I don't remember you being this blunt on that matter; not that's relevant to what we are discussing now, to say the truth.
I won't be offering personal views on possible outcomes doomed to remain pure speculations the next time I'll try to point out any kind of (superficial) analysis at it evidently keeps the attention from the most relevant parts.
What is exactly your last post meant to answer to? The goal of mine was to prove Serral didn't play at his best in 2019, not that his BlizzCon shape was the best ever seen in Starcraft and could have won every tournament.
Okay if you say Serral didn't play at his absoulute best (judged by his blizzcon form) then I agree with you. No player always plays at his very best every tournament though so I'm not sure what's the point of mentioning that. It just seems like an attempt at diminishing Inno's win.
It's like saying after Serral won GSL vs the world and Blizzcon "well, good for him but Stats clearly wasn't playing at his best (insert his most dominant tournament here as benchmark that Stats underperformed)"
It would have been an attempt to diminish Inno's result if I posted this out of the blue, whereas I have been consistently pointing out the quality of Serral's play was inferior since the first day of IEM Serral lost series in every single matchup, not just in ZvT against Inno; not to mention Inno was barely considered a top 3 Terran at the moment , how can saying he deserved to win against the best Zerg in the world(as Serral most likely still is and I pointed out this as well) be considered diminishing his accomplishment?
Stats was playing very well at GSL vs the World, yours would have been a dubious statement at best. If we would attempt to objectively rate Serral's performance by measuring his responsiveness and counting the mistakes he made(especially the fatal missplays) I am fairly sure it would be his current shape isn't on par not even to this very best form(BlizzCon's), but to the average performance Serral displayed during his period of dominance last year.
Honestly asking, do you really not notice any difference in Serral's play?
No. he still played very well (just look at game 6), beat Dark decisively like last year and at IEM beat everyone except Inno and soO. It's just that a few players match up very well against him so it's no surprise to see him losing (btw he avoided top terrans completely during his peak so there's no reference there - he lost 0-2 to soO at NW last year and 0-3 to Neeb at an online tournament). I don't know why it's so outrageous to think that those players can beat an in-form Serral. No, Serral underperforming MUST be the reason otherwise Serral would never lose, right?
I don't think stating Stats underperformed at GSL vs the world is more dubious than stating Serral underperformed now - he made several mistakes (not scouting BL/mutalisk techswitches, not having his army correctly positioned vs the Ling bane hydra attack in game 7) he didn't make in his matches vs Dark when he was at his peak.
Such foolishness in your last statement(in the first period), was it necessary?
Serral is still a top player, he did well against Dark as you pointed out; however, if you can't see Serral recently is making more glaring errors and that he is less decisive, this discussion is over.
On March 17 2019 22:14 Charoisaur wrote: [quote] pretty sure I can point out similar mistakes in any of the maps he lost last year (throwing waves of low-tier Zerg armies into Stats' meatgrinder?). they just aren't as memorable because he still ended up winning the series
So, you are convinced this version of Innovation was the strongest opponent Serral ever met and that's entirely why he lost? As were soO and Neeb?
No? as already said he wasn't totally invincible last year either and had multiple close series that could have gone either way (vs Scarlett, Reynor, Stats, TaeJa and Inno himself). Now those games just happen to fall in favor of Serral's opponents.
Then you think Serral this March is playing approximately as good as he was at the end of 2018 and it just happened him to lose even series the same way he was winning them before?
I think the consistency Serral had in winning decisive games in 2018 wasn't just a product of fate; moreover, the 0-2 series against Neeb at WESG wasn't close at all, unlike any offline game Serral played after Nation Wars last year.
None of the games you listed took place at BlizzCon, where Serral showed us his very best shape.
Serral's ZvZ was shaky at Montreal, you forgot to list Lambo who, as well, took him to game 5.
The games against TaeJa and Inno took place at HSC where every Zerg was struggling hard against Terran, Serral lost most of these trying to figure out how ineffective Ultras were at the time despite their supposed gamechanging buff; in that regard, I can point out Serral's decision making was sharper than today's as he managed to eventually switch to Broodlords in the later games against Inno(just as he abandoned Swarmhosts against Stats at BlizzCon after having lost two consecutive games usting that strat), unlike he did today when he got stuck on that push which had already failed more than once.
The series against Stats at GSL vs the World actually responds to your criteria as Serral was in very good shape judging from his play but that's more of a testament to how incredibly undervalued Stats is; he looked incredibly solid that weekend, he was on par with Serral at delivering us great Starcraft, both could have rightfully claimed the title. Maru's and Stats' best form in 2018 severely impressed me, I haven't seen anyone playing as well this year, yet.
Thus said, I have no intention of underselling Innovation or soO who took out Serral in relevant series and both went on to win deservingly the tournaments where it happened, playing quite well; it's just that I genuinely think this year Serral hasn't been playing up to his previous standards. Observing the games, I am convinced a Serral in good shape would have defeated both of them; that's my opinion, of course, but I don't think my predilection for Serral is blinding me in this case.
I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serral as good as he was during his period of dominance; for sure, he needs a better form in order to defeat top koreans on a regular basis.
Well, if you compare him to his blizzcon form only than you may be right (although he didn't play any ZvTs there) but then I could say as well "if Inno played in his form of GSL vs the world 2017 he'd never lose". That's really a worthless thing to say because it just doesn't matter and can't be proved anyway.
Hah, what of the achievements Serral could have or could have not reached in Code S last year? Tons of wasted words, don't you think? I don't remember you being this blunt on that matter; not that's relevant to what we are discussing now, to say the truth.
I won't be offering personal views on possible outcomes doomed to remain pure speculations the next time I'll try to point out any kind of (superficial) analysis at it evidently keeps the attention from the most relevant parts.
What is exactly your last post meant to answer to? The goal of mine was to prove Serral didn't play at his best in 2019, not that his BlizzCon shape was the best ever seen in Starcraft and could have won every tournament.
Okay if you say Serral didn't play at his absoulute best (judged by his blizzcon form) then I agree with you. No player always plays at his very best every tournament though so I'm not sure what's the point of mentioning that. It just seems like an attempt at diminishing Inno's win.
It's like saying after Serral won GSL vs the world and Blizzcon "well, good for him but Stats clearly wasn't playing at his best (insert his most dominant tournament here as benchmark that Stats underperformed)"
It would have been an attempt to diminish Inno's result if I posted this out of the blue, whereas I have been consistently pointing out the quality of Serral's play was inferior since the first day of IEM Serral lost series in every single matchup, not just in ZvT against Inno; not to mention Inno was barely considered a top 3 Terran at the moment , how can saying he deserved to win against the best Zerg in the world(as Serral most likely still is and I pointed out this as well) be considered diminishing his accomplishment?
Stats was playing very well at GSL vs the World, yours would have been a dubious statement at best. If we would attempt to objectively rate Serral's performance by measuring his responsiveness and counting the mistakes he made(especially the fatal missplays) I am fairly sure it would be his current shape isn't on par not even to this very best form(BlizzCon's), but to the average performance Serral displayed during his period of dominance last year.
Honestly asking, do you really not notice any difference in Serral's play?
No. he still played very well (just look at game 6), beat Dark decisively like last year and at IEM beat everyone except Inno and soO. It's just that a few players match up very well against him so it's no surprise to see him losing (btw he avoided top terrans completely during his peak so there's no reference there - he lost 0-2 to soO at NW last year and 0-3 to Neeb at an online tournament). I don't know why it's so outrageous to think that those players can beat an in-form Serral. No, Serral underperforming MUST be the reason otherwise Serral would never lose, right?
I don't think stating Stats underperformed at GSL vs the world is more dubious than stating Serral underperformed now - he made several mistakes (not scouting BL/mutalisk techswitches, not having his army correctly positioned vs the Ling bane hydra attack in game 7) he didn't make in his matches vs Dark when he was at his peak.
Such foolishness in your last statement(in the first period), was it necessary?
Serral is still a top player, he did well against Dark as you pointed out; however, if you can't see Serral recently is making more glaring errors and that he is less decisive, this discussion is over.
WEll, considering these errors might be forced errors ...
So, you are convinced this version of Innovation was the strongest opponent Serral ever met and that's entirely why he lost? As were soO and Neeb?
No? as already said he wasn't totally invincible last year either and had multiple close series that could have gone either way (vs Scarlett, Reynor, Stats, TaeJa and Inno himself). Now those games just happen to fall in favor of Serral's opponents.
Then you think Serral this March is playing approximately as good as he was at the end of 2018 and it just happened him to lose even series the same way he was winning them before?
I think the consistency Serral had in winning decisive games in 2018 wasn't just a product of fate; moreover, the 0-2 series against Neeb at WESG wasn't close at all, unlike any offline game Serral played after Nation Wars last year.
None of the games you listed took place at BlizzCon, where Serral showed us his very best shape.
Serral's ZvZ was shaky at Montreal, you forgot to list Lambo who, as well, took him to game 5.
The games against TaeJa and Inno took place at HSC where every Zerg was struggling hard against Terran, Serral lost most of these trying to figure out how ineffective Ultras were at the time despite their supposed gamechanging buff; in that regard, I can point out Serral's decision making was sharper than today's as he managed to eventually switch to Broodlords in the later games against Inno(just as he abandoned Swarmhosts against Stats at BlizzCon after having lost two consecutive games usting that strat), unlike he did today when he got stuck on that push which had already failed more than once.
The series against Stats at GSL vs the World actually responds to your criteria as Serral was in very good shape judging from his play but that's more of a testament to how incredibly undervalued Stats is; he looked incredibly solid that weekend, he was on par with Serral at delivering us great Starcraft, both could have rightfully claimed the title. Maru's and Stats' best form in 2018 severely impressed me, I haven't seen anyone playing as well this year, yet.
Thus said, I have no intention of underselling Innovation or soO who took out Serral in relevant series and both went on to win deservingly the tournaments where it happened, playing quite well; it's just that I genuinely think this year Serral hasn't been playing up to his previous standards. Observing the games, I am convinced a Serral in good shape would have defeated both of them; that's my opinion, of course, but I don't think my predilection for Serral is blinding me in this case.
I'm not sure if we'll ever see Serral as good as he was during his period of dominance; for sure, he needs a better form in order to defeat top koreans on a regular basis.
Well, if you compare him to his blizzcon form only than you may be right (although he didn't play any ZvTs there) but then I could say as well "if Inno played in his form of GSL vs the world 2017 he'd never lose". That's really a worthless thing to say because it just doesn't matter and can't be proved anyway.
Hah, what of the achievements Serral could have or could have not reached in Code S last year? Tons of wasted words, don't you think? I don't remember you being this blunt on that matter; not that's relevant to what we are discussing now, to say the truth.
I won't be offering personal views on possible outcomes doomed to remain pure speculations the next time I'll try to point out any kind of (superficial) analysis at it evidently keeps the attention from the most relevant parts.
What is exactly your last post meant to answer to? The goal of mine was to prove Serral didn't play at his best in 2019, not that his BlizzCon shape was the best ever seen in Starcraft and could have won every tournament.
Okay if you say Serral didn't play at his absoulute best (judged by his blizzcon form) then I agree with you. No player always plays at his very best every tournament though so I'm not sure what's the point of mentioning that. It just seems like an attempt at diminishing Inno's win.
It's like saying after Serral won GSL vs the world and Blizzcon "well, good for him but Stats clearly wasn't playing at his best (insert his most dominant tournament here as benchmark that Stats underperformed)"
It would have been an attempt to diminish Inno's result if I posted this out of the blue, whereas I have been consistently pointing out the quality of Serral's play was inferior since the first day of IEM Serral lost series in every single matchup, not just in ZvT against Inno; not to mention Inno was barely considered a top 3 Terran at the moment , how can saying he deserved to win against the best Zerg in the world(as Serral most likely still is and I pointed out this as well) be considered diminishing his accomplishment?
Stats was playing very well at GSL vs the World, yours would have been a dubious statement at best. If we would attempt to objectively rate Serral's performance by measuring his responsiveness and counting the mistakes he made(especially the fatal missplays) I am fairly sure it would be his current shape isn't on par not even to this very best form(BlizzCon's), but to the average performance Serral displayed during his period of dominance last year.
Honestly asking, do you really not notice any difference in Serral's play?
No. he still played very well (just look at game 6), beat Dark decisively like last year and at IEM beat everyone except Inno and soO. It's just that a few players match up very well against him so it's no surprise to see him losing (btw he avoided top terrans completely during his peak so there's no reference there - he lost 0-2 to soO at NW last year and 0-3 to Neeb at an online tournament). I don't know why it's so outrageous to think that those players can beat an in-form Serral. No, Serral underperforming MUST be the reason otherwise Serral would never lose, right?
I don't think stating Stats underperformed at GSL vs the world is more dubious than stating Serral underperformed now - he made several mistakes (not scouting BL/mutalisk techswitches, not having his army correctly positioned vs the Ling bane hydra attack in game 7) he didn't make in his matches vs Dark when he was at his peak.
Such foolishness in your last statement(in the first period), was it necessary?
Serral is still a top player, he did well against Dark as you pointed out; however, if you can't see Serral recently is making more glaring errors and that he is less decisive, this discussion is over.
WEll, considering these errors might be forced errors ...
Then he was reacting better under pressure last year; however, that's part of the game, forced errors are understandable. What is worrying, instead, is that Serral started committing unforced errors I never saw him make.
On March 18 2019 07:26 DieuCure wrote: WeSG is a Premier tournament.
Lol, HSC isn't always a Major, that XVIII was one is nothing but a technicality(2k); then what happened at GSL vs the World? Not a final, still important games. If you mean finals, he didn't play simply against Terran before.
On March 18 2019 05:41 UnLarva wrote: If and when Innovation can act as the midwife in this illegal abortion of this eternal Maru/Serral debate, nobody can actually feel bad about it. Foreign usurpers are happy and Korean elitists are happy. Best player currently won, and the result isn't controversial.
Innovation indeed won back-to-back both Maru and Serral, and while neither of them was clean sweeps, did exactly anyone expect they would've been?
Credits and glory where credits and glory due!
I think it would have been very underwhelming if INno deprived us of Serral - Maru only to lose to Serral afterwards. At least he won them both, like "why would you care about these two players? I'm still a championship contender"
The odd years for INno with even years for Maru thing still seems to hold true
not for Inno he had ups and downs in all of them (excluding 2012 since he just switched from BW) But Maru has not won anything in the past even years. 2013 (OSL), 2015 (SSL) are the only tournaments he has won before 2018, where he won 3 GSL's and WESG Whereas for Innovation it has been every year that he won things: 2013 (WCS S1 Finals), 2014 (IEM gamescon, GSL S3), 2015 (GSL S3), 2016 (IEM Gyeonggi) and 2017 (SSL, GSL vs the World and GSL S3) unless you factor in proleague in which case SKT won in 2015 while Jin Air won in 2016 (I can see why you said that)
EPT
