It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one?
Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me.
Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice
No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level.
WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side.
This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required.
Is there really anyone who can honestly say that WCS has a comparable playing field to GSL? Like, that the people in the Ro32 and beyond in WCS are just as strong as those in GSL? Or is it just jingoistic wishful thinking?
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one?
Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me.
Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice
No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level.
WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side.
This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required.
Is there really anyone who can honestly say that WCS has a comparable playing field to GSL? Like, that the people in the Ro32 and beyond in WCS are just as strong as those in GSL? Or is it just jingoistic wishful thinking?
GSL is harder, there is no doubt about it. This does not mean you can ignore WCS at all.
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one?
Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me.
Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice
No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level.
WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side.
This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required.
Is there really anyone who can honestly say that WCS has a comparable playing field to GSL? Like, that the people in the Ro32 and beyond in WCS are just as strong as those in GSL? Or is it just jingoistic wishful thinking?
GSL is harder, there is no doubt about it. This does not mean you can ignore WCS at all.
to me it's like when people bring up olympic/european/chinese basketball when discussing greatest basketball players of all time.
Only thing that really matters is the NBA.
Doesnt matter how good Carmelo Anthony was in the olympics, how good the gasol brothers were in europe, how good stephon marbury was in china. It's all about the NBA, just like it's all about the GSL (or other tournaments where there are a lot of top koreans)
They have practically the same careers. Rogue was the best from late 2017 to early 2018, while Serral was the best from mid 2018 until the end of the year. Outside of those peaks their achievements are much less.
But Serral dominated way harder than Rogue and in more impressive a manner. So he takes it.
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one?
Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me.
Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice
No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level.
WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side.
This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required.
Is there really anyone who can honestly say that WCS has a comparable playing field to GSL? Like, that the people in the Ro32 and beyond in WCS are just as strong as those in GSL? Or is it just jingoistic wishful thinking?
GSL is harder, there is no doubt about it. This does not mean you can ignore WCS at all.
to me it's like when people bring up olympic/european/chinese basketball when discussing greatest basketball players of all time.
Only thing that really matters is the NBA.
Doesnt matter how good Carmelo Anthony was in the olympics, how good the gasol brothers were in europe, how good stephon marbury was in china. It's all about the NBA, just like it's all about the GSL (or other tournaments where there are a lot of top koreans)
I don't fail to see how you can be convinced of that, but I cannot stop repeating this is not HoTS anymore and non korean players are actually good enough to be taken into consideration; this applies to WCS as well.
There are about four foreigners who are at that top level and none of them besides Serral can do it consistently. It is far easier to get good results when you only have to win 2 or 3 tough series over the course of the tournament as opposed to what we see in GSL.
Even the foreigners dont respect WCS, Scarlett is playing WCS from a different country lol.
Let's take these arguments to the extreme for the sake of jokes:
The most prestigious tournaments by far are the Jin Air Green Wings in house scrimmages. Way more difficult to win a team house scrim than xx tournament because the players are better.
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
This ‘everyone who doesn’t have x opinion is a deluded fanboy’ attitude you ha e is bloody irritating
Maybe players slumping is kind of relevant to a discussion? Rogue has a similar kind of ‘big peak year’ quality to his claims, Serral likewise. Rogue has a slump period, Serral has yet to have one really, but Rogue has a longer career at that level.
They’re pretty similar, amongst the most similar head to heads here you could have.
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
This ‘everyone who doesn’t have x opinion is a deluded fanboy’ attitude you ha e is bloody irritating
Maybe players slumping is kind of relevant to a discussion? Rogue has a similar kind of ‘big peak year’ quality to his claims, Serral likewise. Rogue has a slump period, Serral has yet to have one really, but Rogue has a longer career at that level.
They’re pretty similar, amongst the most similar head to heads here you could have.
I thought for sure that was how it was?
There's is only one truth, which is my opinion and if anyone disagrees then there must something wrong them. (meaning x fanboy, z elitist, recency bias, bw bias, wol bias, hots bias, race bias and so on)
This is purely speculative but I think a typical WCS Circuit win involves beating a couple top 50ish players, maybe two-three top 20 players (players like Reynor, Neeb, Special maybe Scarlett, etc) and if you beat Serral, a top 5 player. With that being said, I think it is harder to win one than make GSL ro8 (which probably requires beating players of slightly higher caliber but over fewer games. So I think a WCS where you beat Serral may be around as hard as GSL ro4 but normally WCS win is somewhere between GSL ro8 and GSL ro4 in difficulty. In fairness, the way I look at it is not super fair to Serral since he can't play against himself of course.
Well true but Serral has won against the top of the top in the biggest tournament on the circuit, a pretty stacked GSL vs the world and in everything else has won or lost to the eventual champion
No player in SC2 has that kind of spread over 18 months
He’s crazily dominant in the foreign scene, when in relative terms it really is the high skilled era, the foreign scene has never been close to what it is now.
When he has had to step up in level he’s won, or he’s at least placed pretty respectfully, he hasn’t bombed out badly in a single tournament over this span.
‘You can’t win every tournament, SC2 is too volatile’ well he did.
A little side note, I now realize that doing matches analysis/recap takes more time than I can spare right now, so I think I'll have to backtrack on the whole battle report idea for the round of 16. You'll still have it for the first 4 matches, but the rest will just be suggestion of a few matches.
You're probably overwhelm with sadness, go comfort yourself by watching EJ best game of may list, I know you didn't watch them, you monster.
On June 13 2019 08:55 Wombat_NI wrote: Well true but Serral has won against the top of the top in the biggest tournament on the circuit, a pretty stacked GSL vs the world and in everything else has won or lost to the eventual champion
No player in SC2 has that kind of spread over 18 months
He’s crazily dominant in the foreign scene, when in relative terms it really is the high skilled era, the foreign scene has never been close to what it is now.
When he has had to step up in level he’s won, or he’s at least placed pretty respectfully, he hasn’t bombed out badly in a single tournament over this span.
‘You can’t win every tournament, SC2 is too volatile’ well he did.
yeah even with measure that the Red Viper used to compare Serral and Classic it was still very close between Rogue and Serral so I definitely don't mind that Serral beat Rogue because I myself am not too sure who should be ranked higher.
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one?
Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me.
Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice
No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level.
WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side.
This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required.
Is there really anyone who can honestly say that WCS has a comparable playing field to GSL? Like, that the people in the Ro32 and beyond in WCS are just as strong as those in GSL? Or is it just jingoistic wishful thinking?
GSL is harder, there is no doubt about it. This does not mean you can ignore WCS at all.
to me it's like when people bring up olympic/european/chinese basketball when discussing greatest basketball players of all time.
Only thing that really matters is the NBA.
Doesnt matter how good Carmelo Anthony was in the olympics, how good the gasol brothers were in europe, how good stephon marbury was in china. It's all about the NBA, just like it's all about the GSL (or other tournaments where there are a lot of top koreans)
I don't fail to see how you can be convinced of that, but I cannot stop repeating this is not HoTS anymore and non korean players are actually good enough to be taken into consideration; this applies to WCS as well.
Except that it is the complete opposite. WCS was much tougher before when Koreans were participating in it. How can you not see that? I refuse to believe someone can be that deluded and ignorant at the same time... :/
Gap is closing is a meme. There are 2-3 foreigners who can compete with mid level koreans and then there is Serral who can compete with the top. How is that good or worth noting in your eyes?
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one?
Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me.
Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice
No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level.
WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side.
This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required.
Is there really anyone who can honestly say that WCS has a comparable playing field to GSL? Like, that the people in the Ro32 and beyond in WCS are just as strong as those in GSL? Or is it just jingoistic wishful thinking?
GSL is harder, there is no doubt about it. This does not mean you can ignore WCS at all.
to me it's like when people bring up olympic/european/chinese basketball when discussing greatest basketball players of all time.
Only thing that really matters is the NBA.
Doesnt matter how good Carmelo Anthony was in the olympics, how good the gasol brothers were in europe, how good stephon marbury was in china. It's all about the NBA, just like it's all about the GSL (or other tournaments where there are a lot of top koreans)
I don't fail to see how you can be convinced of that, but I cannot stop repeating this is not HoTS anymore and non korean players are actually good enough to be taken into consideration; this applies to WCS as well.
Except that it is the complete opposite. WCS was much tougher before when Koreans were participating in it. How can you not see that? I refuse to believe someone can be that deluded and ignorant at the same time... :/
Gap is closing is a meme. There are 2-3 foreigners who can compete with mid level koreans and then there is Serral who can compete with the top. How is that good or worth noting in your eyes?
tbh it's a lot better now than in HotS when there was probably only one foreigner who was around top 20 at most times. Now I would say Serral, Neeb, Reynor and Special are probably in (or at least close to) the top 20. That said, I don't think the gap closed very much from the beginning of LotV. I think most of the gap already closed in 2016. The gap probably widened in 2017 and narrowed a ton in 2018 (Neeb ro4 GSL, Scarlett winning IEM and Serral becoming a top player). For 2019 it's too early to tell.
It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here
No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering)
If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing.
You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one?
Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me.
Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice
No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level.
WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side.
This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required.
Is there really anyone who can honestly say that WCS has a comparable playing field to GSL? Like, that the people in the Ro32 and beyond in WCS are just as strong as those in GSL? Or is it just jingoistic wishful thinking?
GSL is harder, there is no doubt about it. This does not mean you can ignore WCS at all.
to me it's like when people bring up olympic/european/chinese basketball when discussing greatest basketball players of all time.
Only thing that really matters is the NBA.
Doesnt matter how good Carmelo Anthony was in the olympics, how good the gasol brothers were in europe, how good stephon marbury was in china. It's all about the NBA, just like it's all about the GSL (or other tournaments where there are a lot of top koreans)
I don't fail to see how you can be convinced of that, but I cannot stop repeating this is not HoTS anymore and non korean players are actually good enough to be taken into consideration; this applies to WCS as well.
Except that it is the complete opposite. WCS was much tougher before when Koreans were participating in it. How can you not see that? I refuse to believe someone can be that deluded and ignorant at the same time... :/
Gap is closing is a meme. There are 2-3 foreigners who can compete with mid level koreans and then there is Serral who can compete with the top. How is that good or worth noting in your eyes?
Oh wow something was of better quality when Koreans were competing in it, quel surprise!
Both WCS regions were mostly full of players who were never particularly competitive at Code S levels, or guys who had been but were past their peaks.
Korea had a depth of player talent that those guys were still basically better than any foreigners at the time, Korea does not have that depth any more, while foreigners have a higher baseline level than before but also the few outliers like Serral and Neeb
EPT
