EPTTeam Liquid Greatest of All Time Contest - Page 58
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
Gotta abuse that prism pick-up range before Blizz. nerfs it into oblivion. | ||
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Parrek
United States893 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On June 12 2019 12:52 Parrek wrote: So I'm confused. What are the placement matches? I thought Serral was eliminated from this whole thing when he lost to Classic. Is it just to determine 9th-10th? It's to determine 17th to 32nd place. | ||
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Anc13nt
1557 Posts
On June 12 2019 10:42 Wombat_NI wrote: Rogue did super well in a meta that seemed to suit him and he’s fallen off a long way. Serral not so much (yet anyway) Longevity seems to always be used as an argument against Serral, I think the long periods where x mainstay didn’t do anything impressive should count against them as well. Serral is actually consistent vs being around a long time and picking up the odd result. He’s either won every tournament he’s been in or lost to the eventual champion for like, 18 months or something silly now. He’s got the longest win streak against Korean players in all of SC2 Also recency bias but Rogue was up there with Ty and Dear for me of the most underwhelming performances this last GSL season idk what you mean by mainstay but wouldn't your standard work against Serral too? He didn't have any great results until 2017 and played for years before that. | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6689 Posts
Actually Rogue and Serral are almost 50:50 for me but gotta counteract korean elitism with some foreigner bias ^^ | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
Rogue should be ranked higher than Serral, but I am a bit scared that the recency bias where Rogue has fallen off so bad will be too strong. But aside from that: - Rogue peak is very close to Serral - He has better achievements - Plays against the best opponents more frequently | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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Yonnua
United Kingdom2331 Posts
I really can't understand why: there was no placement for 33rd-64th or beyond, and it isn't like these are a meaningful part of the ranking (it's not top 10). It seems an entirely convoluted way to push Serral's ranking above where he actually finished. | ||
Nakajin
Canada8988 Posts
On June 12 2019 19:11 Yonnua wrote: I really can't understand why: there was no placement for 33rd-64th or beyond, and it isn't like these are a meaningful part of the ranking (it's not top 10). It seems an entirely convoluted way to push Serral's ranking above where he actually finished. Well it's on you guys I made a poll about it | ||
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Pandain
United States12984 Posts
On June 12 2019 19:11 Yonnua wrote: I really can't understand why: there was no placement for 33rd-64th or beyond, and it isn't like these are a meaningful part of the ranking (it's not top 10). It seems an entirely convoluted way to push Serral's ranking above where he actually finished. rofl not everything is about serral | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6689 Posts
On June 12 2019 19:11 Yonnua wrote: I really can't understand why: there was no placement for 33rd-64th or beyond, and it isn't like these are a meaningful part of the ranking (it's not top 10). It seems an entirely convoluted way to push Serral's ranking above where he actually finished. The fact that you are not even trolling made me laugh xD | ||
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Shuffleblade
Sweden1903 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland23702 Posts
On June 12 2019 14:49 Anc13nt wrote: idk what you mean by mainstay but wouldn't your standard work against Serral too? He didn't have any great results until 2017 and played for years before that. It’s hard to gauge, players peak and mature at different stages. There’s no hard and fast rules, in fact what people used to think about the age range that you can be a top progamer is being shown to be way off by Classic’s recent form. Sure there’s playing the game for a while, and there’s being an established top fulltime progamer, I try to consider what a player does after hitting their rough level, vs what they do beforehand. I meant mainstay as basically any top tier Kespa pro who has been playing in the GSL for 5 years or whatever. The top guys will have more achievements, they’ll also have more failures too. I’m fine with factoring in longevity but both sides of the coin have to be looked at there. It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here | ||
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Harris1st
Germany6689 Posts
On June 12 2019 10:09 Wombat_NI wrote: Sigh I misclicked Rogue It's Serral : Rogue 14: 16 right now. I blame YOU! xD | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On June 12 2019 10:09 Wombat_NI wrote: It’s a pretty even matchup really, they’re both defined by great peak years more than most other players, it’s about as 50/50 a matchup as I can think of here No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering) If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On June 13 2019 00:48 MarianoSC2 wrote: No, its not that close. Rogue is superior, and the voting is about 50/50 only because Rogue is slumping now and Serral fanboys would force-gather votes no matter who he is up against. (the already couple times mentioned delusion syndrom you are suffering) If this voting was done next year and Serral keeps up his form and results, then we might have another story and fanboys might have more reasonable claims. But right now? Nah... Sure its closer than deciding between Rain and Byun, but its not as close as the vote currently is showing. You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one? Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me. | ||
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MarianoSC2
Slovakia1855 Posts
On June 13 2019 01:09 Xain0n wrote: You have never come to suspect you might be the delusional one? Rogue won more international titles, everything else is on Serral's side; I understand that winning multiple WCS in a row is, in your opinion, an inferior result to getting stuck in Code S' ro8 multiple times, but it really seems a flawed one to me. Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice  No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level. WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side. | ||
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Xain0n
Italy3963 Posts
On June 13 2019 01:28 MarianoSC2 wrote: Wouldnt you say rallying fanboy troops on various pages just to make sure Serral gets the votes is a bit deluded? It feels like even you dont believe he should win. One of you even voted for Rogue because he knows deep down its the correct choice No, I always recognize Serrals strengths and he clearly has the potential to be one of the best players ever, but he is just nowhere near that yet. How can we compare him with the best if he is not playing with the best? It would not be fair to other top players who are consistently competing on a top level. WCS is nothing, yes, I stand by that. If you want to count Serrals WCS achievments as a deciding factor we might as well count Olimoleagues for Rogue and GSL RO8. Everything except recency bias and fanboy bias is on Rogues side. This ridicolousness regarding WCS is borderline insulting, as long as there are people who think it's a competition worth nothing more people who counterbalance this idea are required. Rogue's and Serral's peaks were kind of similar with the notable exception of Serral winning everything he joined(resulting in his famous best streak ever) and Rogue getting rejected by Code S every single time(however, he managed to win IEM Katowice); basically, both of them started to increase their level of play in 2017 with Serral replacing Rogue as the player to beat in international tournaments. In these two years, Serral has surely been more consistent and has never experienced the up and downs Rogue showed(the last one he currently is seems especially devastating). | ||
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