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On May 21 2019 21:10 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2019 18:24 neutralrobot wrote:On May 21 2019 01:47 Bagration wrote:On May 21 2019 00:39 Jealous wrote:On May 21 2019 00:16 Bagration wrote:On May 20 2019 14:27 Acrofales wrote:
Damn. If I had known herO vs Dark was so close, I would've voted for herO. His career has been far greater than Dark's. I just wanted to get my fanboy vote in, because Dark is the way more interesting player.
This site is weird. It's like there's an anti-liquid-bias to compensate for the liquid-bias the staff has? I mean, soO probably should win it, but in terms of actual prizes, HerO has him quite solidly beaten. People really ranking seconds places highly. There's definitely a GSL / Korean scene bias, and that's likely why people don't rate Hero (and Taeja) higher - neither of them got further than the semi finals of any premier Korean tournament. And so, there's the perception that Liquid's duo were just beating up on weaker foreign competition - probably more so for Hero and much less so for Taeja In fact, we see this bias now for Serral - same argument, different year If you're playing in college hoops for 90+% of your career no one should think of you as a pro baller. My general approach is that I won't significantly discount a player's foreign winnings if they've proven that they can win in Korea. Guys like Mvp, MMA, MC all won a lot of foreign tournaments, but each also won multiple GSLs and proved that they could dominate at the highest level as well. Taeja was an absolute top tier player, but will never be considered the GOAT because he never got that Korean title. This has made me think that it would be interesting to do another thread after this for most talented of all time. It would be interesting to see how the players stack up differently. Taeja seemed to have a natural talent that was totally insane. I remember him for those two GSL runs before he retired, where he said he didn't have a build planned and he watched the other players' games on the day and wound up using their builds to get out of the group. That was some crazy open-handed playing skill in a prep tournament. It’s super hard to do because everyone does kind of work pretty damn hard to get to a certain level, but it’s a fun exercise. Taeja is definitely up there, plus he has all the achievements as well that I have him high in GOAT lists. Stephano was really ahead of the curve in strategic thinking and understanding and his talent was pretty obvious. I’m not sure who else springs to mind off-hand, I’ll have to have a think.
Serral. He admitted to having a pretty lax training schedule (3-6 hours a day) and still has some success
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Canada8989 Posts
On May 22 2019 01:47 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On May 21 2019 21:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 21 2019 18:24 neutralrobot wrote:On May 21 2019 01:47 Bagration wrote:On May 21 2019 00:39 Jealous wrote:On May 21 2019 00:16 Bagration wrote:On May 20 2019 14:27 Acrofales wrote:
Damn. If I had known herO vs Dark was so close, I would've voted for herO. His career has been far greater than Dark's. I just wanted to get my fanboy vote in, because Dark is the way more interesting player.
This site is weird. It's like there's an anti-liquid-bias to compensate for the liquid-bias the staff has? I mean, soO probably should win it, but in terms of actual prizes, HerO has him quite solidly beaten. People really ranking seconds places highly. There's definitely a GSL / Korean scene bias, and that's likely why people don't rate Hero (and Taeja) higher - neither of them got further than the semi finals of any premier Korean tournament. And so, there's the perception that Liquid's duo were just beating up on weaker foreign competition - probably more so for Hero and much less so for Taeja In fact, we see this bias now for Serral - same argument, different year If you're playing in college hoops for 90+% of your career no one should think of you as a pro baller. My general approach is that I won't significantly discount a player's foreign winnings if they've proven that they can win in Korea. Guys like Mvp, MMA, MC all won a lot of foreign tournaments, but each also won multiple GSLs and proved that they could dominate at the highest level as well. Taeja was an absolute top tier player, but will never be considered the GOAT because he never got that Korean title. This has made me think that it would be interesting to do another thread after this for most talented of all time. It would be interesting to see how the players stack up differently. Taeja seemed to have a natural talent that was totally insane. I remember him for those two GSL runs before he retired, where he said he didn't have a build planned and he watched the other players' games on the day and wound up using their builds to get out of the group. That was some crazy open-handed playing skill in a prep tournament. It’s super hard to do because everyone does kind of work pretty damn hard to get to a certain level, but it’s a fun exercise. Taeja is definitely up there, plus he has all the achievements as well that I have him high in GOAT lists. Stephano was really ahead of the curve in strategic thinking and understanding and his talent was pretty obvious. I’m not sure who else springs to mind off-hand, I’ll have to have a think. Serral. He admitted to having a pretty lax training schedule (3-6 hours a day) and still has some success
Dunno, Serral seem more like INno, he may not practice like crazy now but he was a huge grinder for years, plus I seem to remember hearing someone say he does a lot of replay analysis. He dosen't strike me as someone who run on pure talent or who would skip on his practice before a tournament.
Scarlett may be a better choice as it's been said she frequently take months barely playing.
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On May 22 2019 02:11 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 01:47 Charoisaur wrote:On May 21 2019 21:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 21 2019 18:24 neutralrobot wrote:On May 21 2019 01:47 Bagration wrote:On May 21 2019 00:39 Jealous wrote:On May 21 2019 00:16 Bagration wrote:On May 20 2019 14:27 Acrofales wrote:
Damn. If I had known herO vs Dark was so close, I would've voted for herO. His career has been far greater than Dark's. I just wanted to get my fanboy vote in, because Dark is the way more interesting player.
This site is weird. It's like there's an anti-liquid-bias to compensate for the liquid-bias the staff has? I mean, soO probably should win it, but in terms of actual prizes, HerO has him quite solidly beaten. People really ranking seconds places highly. There's definitely a GSL / Korean scene bias, and that's likely why people don't rate Hero (and Taeja) higher - neither of them got further than the semi finals of any premier Korean tournament. And so, there's the perception that Liquid's duo were just beating up on weaker foreign competition - probably more so for Hero and much less so for Taeja In fact, we see this bias now for Serral - same argument, different year If you're playing in college hoops for 90+% of your career no one should think of you as a pro baller. My general approach is that I won't significantly discount a player's foreign winnings if they've proven that they can win in Korea. Guys like Mvp, MMA, MC all won a lot of foreign tournaments, but each also won multiple GSLs and proved that they could dominate at the highest level as well. Taeja was an absolute top tier player, but will never be considered the GOAT because he never got that Korean title. This has made me think that it would be interesting to do another thread after this for most talented of all time. It would be interesting to see how the players stack up differently. Taeja seemed to have a natural talent that was totally insane. I remember him for those two GSL runs before he retired, where he said he didn't have a build planned and he watched the other players' games on the day and wound up using their builds to get out of the group. That was some crazy open-handed playing skill in a prep tournament. It’s super hard to do because everyone does kind of work pretty damn hard to get to a certain level, but it’s a fun exercise. Taeja is definitely up there, plus he has all the achievements as well that I have him high in GOAT lists. Stephano was really ahead of the curve in strategic thinking and understanding and his talent was pretty obvious. I’m not sure who else springs to mind off-hand, I’ll have to have a think. Serral. He admitted to having a pretty lax training schedule (3-6 hours a day) and still has some success Dunno, Serral seem more like INno, he may not practice like crazy now but he was a huge grinder for years, plus I seem to remember hearing someone say he does a lot of replay analysis. He dosen't strike me as someone who run on pure talent or who would skip on his practice before a tournament. Scarlett may be a better choice as it's been said she frequently take months barely playing.
PartinG is another shout. He was incredibly naturally gifted at the game and that probably explains why he's made the most rapid return back to Starcraft of any of the returning pros.
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Northern Ireland25458 Posts
On May 22 2019 02:11 Nakajin wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 01:47 Charoisaur wrote:On May 21 2019 21:10 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 21 2019 18:24 neutralrobot wrote:On May 21 2019 01:47 Bagration wrote:On May 21 2019 00:39 Jealous wrote:On May 21 2019 00:16 Bagration wrote:On May 20 2019 14:27 Acrofales wrote:
Damn. If I had known herO vs Dark was so close, I would've voted for herO. His career has been far greater than Dark's. I just wanted to get my fanboy vote in, because Dark is the way more interesting player.
This site is weird. It's like there's an anti-liquid-bias to compensate for the liquid-bias the staff has? I mean, soO probably should win it, but in terms of actual prizes, HerO has him quite solidly beaten. People really ranking seconds places highly. There's definitely a GSL / Korean scene bias, and that's likely why people don't rate Hero (and Taeja) higher - neither of them got further than the semi finals of any premier Korean tournament. And so, there's the perception that Liquid's duo were just beating up on weaker foreign competition - probably more so for Hero and much less so for Taeja In fact, we see this bias now for Serral - same argument, different year If you're playing in college hoops for 90+% of your career no one should think of you as a pro baller. My general approach is that I won't significantly discount a player's foreign winnings if they've proven that they can win in Korea. Guys like Mvp, MMA, MC all won a lot of foreign tournaments, but each also won multiple GSLs and proved that they could dominate at the highest level as well. Taeja was an absolute top tier player, but will never be considered the GOAT because he never got that Korean title. This has made me think that it would be interesting to do another thread after this for most talented of all time. It would be interesting to see how the players stack up differently. Taeja seemed to have a natural talent that was totally insane. I remember him for those two GSL runs before he retired, where he said he didn't have a build planned and he watched the other players' games on the day and wound up using their builds to get out of the group. That was some crazy open-handed playing skill in a prep tournament. It’s super hard to do because everyone does kind of work pretty damn hard to get to a certain level, but it’s a fun exercise. Taeja is definitely up there, plus he has all the achievements as well that I have him high in GOAT lists. Stephano was really ahead of the curve in strategic thinking and understanding and his talent was pretty obvious. I’m not sure who else springs to mind off-hand, I’ll have to have a think. Serral. He admitted to having a pretty lax training schedule (3-6 hours a day) and still has some success Dunno, Serral seem more like INno, he may not practice like crazy now but he was a huge grinder for years, plus I seem to remember hearing someone say he does a lot of replay analysis. He dosen't strike me as someone who run on pure talent or who would skip on his practice before a tournament. Scarlett may be a better choice as it's been said she frequently take months barely playing.
It seems more likely to be the case to me. Grinding to the top and then taking the odd break is different from not requiring as much grind at any time.
I think it’s probably pretty sensible to avoid burnout
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Its kind of hard to judge "talent" or "genius" at the game, there are such massively different kind of talent that can be really important for Starcraft.
Players like Taeja, for his ability to just play a S level game based on pure instinct.
Players like MC for their incredible killer instinct, when MC was on top it was almost eerie how he used weaknesses he hadn't even seen yet.
Mechanically gifted, Innovation level of macro was simply unmatched for long periods of time.
Stephanos strategic mind and innovative way of playing showed a very unique way of understanding starcraft.
I also think Serral is unmatched in the history of Starcraft when it comes to perfecting roadmaps, planning what to do in every situation and just acting according to it. I think Serral is a genius at perfecting a reactionary style of play, even more so than Rain.
Maru micro god.
Anyway all of the above talents are players excelling beyond all their peers at certain aspects of the game, its so hard to say who was or is the "most" talented. While not the "best" at anything (in my opinion) I think Life is the one thats showed incredible talent at the most wide array of starcraft talents.
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Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly
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On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly
Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft.
Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
Talking about talent and not mentioning Life? Probably the biggest gifted player we had.
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Northern Ireland25458 Posts
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Northern Ireland25458 Posts
On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft.
Generally not always the case for sure, in Polt’s case I think smart in other areas and smart at Starcraft do actually fit well together.
I think he’s one of the smartest at dynamic tactical decision making there is within a game.
If I had to pick, I’d pick sOs to come up with a plan and a build, and Polt to be on hand to come up with something if plan A fails.
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On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft.
Sure it does - he was part-time studying for university, and part-time winning multiple WCS Americas
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On May 22 2019 07:21 Bagration wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft. Sure it does - he was part-time studying for university, and part-time winning multiple WCS Americas
Yes, and that is an argument as to why he he is very talented. Not that it was actually studying that he was doing but that he was only part time while still posting such great results.
Lets say Innovation studied 50% while he won all his tournaments and MVP worked 50% while he won all his tournaments are you really saying Innovation would be the more talented starcraft simply because he was studying at university?
Its a parameter that doesn't matter, if you are part time starcraft pro it matters compared to a full time but it doesn't what you are doing with the rest of the 50%. Was Life less talented because he was gambling part time (if he did) compared to Polt who was studying part time? I don't think so.
I agree with both of you about Polts talent for the game and his strategic brilliance and how impressive it was that he won while being part time. I just think its weird that the first post you made every single reason you named as to why he was a great starcraft player had nothing to do with starcraft but with his part time activity, which in my opinion is besides the point in this discussion. Even though its obviously cool and impressive but not impressive starcraft-wise, more impressive in general.
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On May 22 2019 07:42 Shuffleblade wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 07:21 Bagration wrote:On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft. Sure it does - he was part-time studying for university, and part-time winning multiple WCS Americas Yes, and that is an argument as to why he he is very talented. Not that it was actually studying that he was doing but that he was only part time while still posting such great results. Lets say Innovation studied 50% while he won all his tournaments and MVP worked 50% while he won all his tournaments are you really saying Innovation would be the more talented starcraft simply because he was studying at university? Its a parameter that doesn't matter, if you are part time starcraft pro it matters compared to a full time but it doesn't what you are doing with the rest of the 50%. Was Life less talented because he was gambling part time (if he did) compared to Polt who was studying part time? I don't think so. I agree with both of you about Polts talent for the game and his strategic brilliance and how impressive it was that he won while being part time. I just think its weird that the first post you made every single reason you named as to why he was a great starcraft player had nothing to do with starcraft but with his part time activity, which in my opinion is besides the point in this discussion. Even though its obviously cool and impressive but not impressive starcraft-wise, more impressive in general.
I think you're 100% allowed to bring in player's outside life in determing greatness. For instance, no one talks about Mvp without referencing his wrist problems and how he overcame them (even though that's not exactly relevant to accomplishments themselves).
Polt accomplishing tons while studying at school is certainly noteworthy.
That's the thing about "greatness", you don't just have to take into account pure championships and results, you can look at outside factors. Greatness is different than "best results"
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It might be different with e-sport but in normal sports intelligence is absolutely not the same as talent.
Lukas Podolski had probably an IQ of 50 but his left foot was feared internationally. Just throwing this out there 
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Northern Ireland25458 Posts
On May 22 2019 17:19 Harris1st wrote:It might be different with e-sport but in normal sports intelligence is absolutely not the same as talent. Lukas Podolski had probably an IQ of 50 but his left foot was feared internationally. Just throwing this out there
I think footballers are way smarter than they’re given credit for on average, both for their physical abilities/spatial awareness, also that to be a top pro player generally speaking you have to drop school and go all-in.
Hell even with the best translations going the Koreans generally don’t come across as well in conversation/interviews as many foreign pros, but foreign pros tend to have a more rounded experience as adolescents/young adults, so they’ll have a bit of experience to polish some of those skills even informally.
Of course every group of people does still have idiots in it for sure
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On May 22 2019 08:39 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 07:42 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 07:21 Bagration wrote:On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft. Sure it does - he was part-time studying for university, and part-time winning multiple WCS Americas Yes, and that is an argument as to why he he is very talented. Not that it was actually studying that he was doing but that he was only part time while still posting such great results. Lets say Innovation studied 50% while he won all his tournaments and MVP worked 50% while he won all his tournaments are you really saying Innovation would be the more talented starcraft simply because he was studying at university? Its a parameter that doesn't matter, if you are part time starcraft pro it matters compared to a full time but it doesn't what you are doing with the rest of the 50%. Was Life less talented because he was gambling part time (if he did) compared to Polt who was studying part time? I don't think so. I agree with both of you about Polts talent for the game and his strategic brilliance and how impressive it was that he won while being part time. I just think its weird that the first post you made every single reason you named as to why he was a great starcraft player had nothing to do with starcraft but with his part time activity, which in my opinion is besides the point in this discussion. Even though its obviously cool and impressive but not impressive starcraft-wise, more impressive in general. I think you're 100% allowed to bring in player's outside life in determing greatness. For instance, no one talks about Mvp without referencing his wrist problems and how he overcame them (even though that's not exactly relevant to accomplishments themselves). Polt accomplishing tons while studying at school is certainly noteworthy. That's the thing about "greatness", you don't just have to take into account pure championships and results, you can look at outside factors. Greatness is different than "best results"
You are also missing the point which is that going to a good school doesn't make someone a better Starcraft player.
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On May 22 2019 18:45 Ej_ wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 08:39 Pandain wrote:On May 22 2019 07:42 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 07:21 Bagration wrote:On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft. Sure it does - he was part-time studying for university, and part-time winning multiple WCS Americas Yes, and that is an argument as to why he he is very talented. Not that it was actually studying that he was doing but that he was only part time while still posting such great results. Lets say Innovation studied 50% while he won all his tournaments and MVP worked 50% while he won all his tournaments are you really saying Innovation would be the more talented starcraft simply because he was studying at university? Its a parameter that doesn't matter, if you are part time starcraft pro it matters compared to a full time but it doesn't what you are doing with the rest of the 50%. Was Life less talented because he was gambling part time (if he did) compared to Polt who was studying part time? I don't think so. I agree with both of you about Polts talent for the game and his strategic brilliance and how impressive it was that he won while being part time. I just think its weird that the first post you made every single reason you named as to why he was a great starcraft player had nothing to do with starcraft but with his part time activity, which in my opinion is besides the point in this discussion. Even though its obviously cool and impressive but not impressive starcraft-wise, more impressive in general. I think you're 100% allowed to bring in player's outside life in determing greatness. For instance, no one talks about Mvp without referencing his wrist problems and how he overcame them (even though that's not exactly relevant to accomplishments themselves). Polt accomplishing tons while studying at school is certainly noteworthy. That's the thing about "greatness", you don't just have to take into account pure championships and results, you can look at outside factors. Greatness is different than "best results" You are also missing the point which is that going to a good school doesn't make someone a better Starcraft player.
I didn't say that was relevant. But I do think going to school while you are winning major championships is extremely impressive and relevant to this discussion.
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On May 22 2019 20:16 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 18:45 Ej_ wrote:On May 22 2019 08:39 Pandain wrote:On May 22 2019 07:42 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 07:21 Bagration wrote:On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft. Sure it does - he was part-time studying for university, and part-time winning multiple WCS Americas Yes, and that is an argument as to why he he is very talented. Not that it was actually studying that he was doing but that he was only part time while still posting such great results. Lets say Innovation studied 50% while he won all his tournaments and MVP worked 50% while he won all his tournaments are you really saying Innovation would be the more talented starcraft simply because he was studying at university? Its a parameter that doesn't matter, if you are part time starcraft pro it matters compared to a full time but it doesn't what you are doing with the rest of the 50%. Was Life less talented because he was gambling part time (if he did) compared to Polt who was studying part time? I don't think so. I agree with both of you about Polts talent for the game and his strategic brilliance and how impressive it was that he won while being part time. I just think its weird that the first post you made every single reason you named as to why he was a great starcraft player had nothing to do with starcraft but with his part time activity, which in my opinion is besides the point in this discussion. Even though its obviously cool and impressive but not impressive starcraft-wise, more impressive in general. I think you're 100% allowed to bring in player's outside life in determing greatness. For instance, no one talks about Mvp without referencing his wrist problems and how he overcame them (even though that's not exactly relevant to accomplishments themselves). Polt accomplishing tons while studying at school is certainly noteworthy. That's the thing about "greatness", you don't just have to take into account pure championships and results, you can look at outside factors. Greatness is different than "best results" You are also missing the point which is that going to a good school doesn't make someone a better Starcraft player. I didn't say that was relevant. But I do think going to school while you are winning major championships is extremely impressive and relevant to this discussion.
A propos discussion: Dark vs herO is as close as ever
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Lol, Classic showing up in the GSL to show that he is not yet done building his legacy (after Serral did the same on his side of the ocean).
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On May 22 2019 20:16 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 18:45 Ej_ wrote:On May 22 2019 08:39 Pandain wrote:On May 22 2019 07:42 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 07:21 Bagration wrote:On May 22 2019 04:24 Shuffleblade wrote:On May 22 2019 04:10 Bagration wrote:
Polt should be a candidate in terms of talent - wasn't he also studying at university while playing and winning at a high level?
Polt overall appears to be super intelligent - IIRC the guy went to Seoul National University which is a top tier school in Korea, went to UT Austin which is another top school in the US, and picked up English really quickly Notice how none of what you mention hint at a great talent for starcraft. Not disagreeing with you per see, just saying, the greatest talent at starcraft is probably not the most educated and education and language should not be an argument for why one is great at starcraft. Sure it does - he was part-time studying for university, and part-time winning multiple WCS Americas Yes, and that is an argument as to why he he is very talented. Not that it was actually studying that he was doing but that he was only part time while still posting such great results. Lets say Innovation studied 50% while he won all his tournaments and MVP worked 50% while he won all his tournaments are you really saying Innovation would be the more talented starcraft simply because he was studying at university? Its a parameter that doesn't matter, if you are part time starcraft pro it matters compared to a full time but it doesn't what you are doing with the rest of the 50%. Was Life less talented because he was gambling part time (if he did) compared to Polt who was studying part time? I don't think so. I agree with both of you about Polts talent for the game and his strategic brilliance and how impressive it was that he won while being part time. I just think its weird that the first post you made every single reason you named as to why he was a great starcraft player had nothing to do with starcraft but with his part time activity, which in my opinion is besides the point in this discussion. Even though its obviously cool and impressive but not impressive starcraft-wise, more impressive in general. I think you're 100% allowed to bring in player's outside life in determing greatness. For instance, no one talks about Mvp without referencing his wrist problems and how he overcame them (even though that's not exactly relevant to accomplishments themselves). Polt accomplishing tons while studying at school is certainly noteworthy. That's the thing about "greatness", you don't just have to take into account pure championships and results, you can look at outside factors. Greatness is different than "best results" You are also missing the point which is that going to a good school doesn't make someone a better Starcraft player. I didn't say that was relevant. But I do think going to school while you are winning major championships is extremely impressive and relevant to this discussion.
You literally responded to a post that argued that. Did you actually read the entire exchange (which was based on Shuffeblade pointing out that yes, it's more impressive when you achieve success with limited time, but what you do besides Starcraft doesn't change your image as a Starcraft player)?
Because the take you offered is a repeat of what had been said by the 2 original parties in the discussio. You don't need to explain it to anyone. Or explain it again in the reply to my post.
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EPT
