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On March 01 2019 20:59 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 20:58 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 01 2019 20:53 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:51 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:47 Xain0n wrote:On March 01 2019 20:41 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:31 Snakestyle11 wrote:
I dont want to jynx it, but it seems to be Serral is just on another level than any other player in the world. Literally one class above code S.
I have never seen someone dominate other top players in such a convincing fashion with no holes, no weakness. If sc2 can stay esports for a few more years, I wouldnt be surprised if Serral surpasses Flashs level of dominance in broodwar.... If he's so good where are his Code S titles? oO  And as much as I don't like Flash his level of dominance is totally something different. Serral is nowhere near this. And Flash wasn't avoiding the Korean competition in WCS IIRC. Serral can't win Code S if he never plays it; he might do it one day, deal with it for now. Flash in Sc2 wasn't but a pale shade of what he is in BW; you can't compare him to Serral, only korean players are relevant in Brood War and they all play the same tournaments in the same scene. Also, according to Letmelose Nada is the best player in BW's history and there is a strong argument for that. Flash might be the best RTS player of all times but it's highly debatable, look at Moon's accomplishments in Warcraft III. Obviously he was comparing him to Flash in BW and Serral is nowhere near this kind of dominance. Accept it. I think he could be if he was playing Code S. But the way SC2 works he has 0 interest to play something else than the farmer league and global events. Thus the case is closed, isn't it? Comparing different games is stupid to begin with, even in the same genre (who's the best moba player, Faker or Dendi xD) and SC2 & BW only share the same name. They're very very different RTS that tests the RTS skills in a different manner so it's totally pointless to compare BW achievement to SC2 achievement. Except to have utter respect for people who were able to win titles in both. However Serral will be closer and closer to the title of best SC2 player in the history if he keeps up this level of play. I don't remember anyone feeling as dominant as he is. Zest, Life, Inno, Mvp... Zest always had this PvZ shackiness, Life had some huge ups but no real consistency. Inno early 2013 is comparable but he didn't have the same string of results (tilting and losing vs SK is something Serral has not done yet). Mvp 2011 was quite godlike but still not the same consistency. What's the last boX lost by serral against a kr player (not even counting foreigner). Only disappointing loss in like a year is the 2-0 vs soO at NW. And i'm a huge kr fanboy but he looks so much better than his opponent in most of his games it's unreal. PvZ shackiness? So what is Serral ZvT then?
rock solid compared to Zest PvZ xD
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I thought Serral was completely dead, he's still behind but really feel like Solar should've just killed him.
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On March 01 2019 20:59 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 20:58 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 01 2019 20:53 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:51 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:47 Xain0n wrote:On March 01 2019 20:41 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:31 Snakestyle11 wrote:
I dont want to jynx it, but it seems to be Serral is just on another level than any other player in the world. Literally one class above code S.
I have never seen someone dominate other top players in such a convincing fashion with no holes, no weakness. If sc2 can stay esports for a few more years, I wouldnt be surprised if Serral surpasses Flashs level of dominance in broodwar.... If he's so good where are his Code S titles? oO And as much as I don't like Flash his level of dominance is totally something different. Serral is nowhere near this. And Flash wasn't avoiding the Korean competition in WCS IIRC. Serral can't win Code S if he never plays it; he might do it one day, deal with it for now. Flash in Sc2 wasn't but a pale shade of what he is in BW; you can't compare him to Serral, only korean players are relevant in Brood War and they all play the same tournaments in the same scene. Also, according to Letmelose Nada is the best player in BW's history and there is a strong argument for that. Flash might be the best RTS player of all times but it's highly debatable, look at Moon's accomplishments in Warcraft III. Obviously he was comparing him to Flash in BW and Serral is nowhere near this kind of dominance. Accept it. I think he could be if he was playing Code S. But the way SC2 works he has 0 interest to play something else than the farmer league and global events. Thus the case is closed, isn't it? Comparing different games is stupid to begin with, even in the same genre (who's the best moba player, Faker or Dendi xD) and SC2 & BW only share the same name. They're very very different RTS that tests the RTS skills in a different manner so it's totally pointless to compare BW achievement to SC2 achievement. Except to have utter respect for people who were able to win titles in both. However Serral will be closer and closer to the title of best SC2 player in the history if he keeps up this level of play. I don't remember anyone feeling as dominant as he is. Zest, Life, Inno, Mvp... Zest always had this PvZ shackiness, Life had some huge ups but no real consistency. Inno early 2013 is comparable but he didn't have the same string of results (tilting and losing vs SK is something Serral has not done yet). Mvp 2011 was quite godlike but still not the same consistency. What's the last boX lost by serral against a kr player (not even counting foreigner). Only disappointing loss in like a year is the 2-0 vs soO at NW. And i'm a huge kr fanboy but he looks so much better than his opponent in most of his games it's unreal. PvZ shackiness? So what is Serral ZvT then?
Nodoby ever won as many premier tournaments as he did in addiction to very good placements in the ones he didn't win, earned as much money and had a better streak in one year of Sc2; Serral's ZvT "weakness"? Lost one game against Maru at his peak while he still wasn't?
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On March 01 2019 21:00 imre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 20:58 Jasper_Ty wrote:
Are we just casually forgetting Maru winning 3 Code S's in a row? If we're talking about dominance then what Maru did in 2018 was almost completely unheard of in the history of Starcraft 2 (if we forget about Mvp 2011-2012 for a second). problem is that Maru lost every other tournament in the meanwhile :/ but yes 3 code S in a row is crazy and what he did to the korean scene was incredible.
And he did that while Terran was weak, even more impressive. But he stole the last map to TY 
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And Solar takes the W in game 2!
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On March 01 2019 20:59 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 20:58 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 01 2019 20:53 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:51 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:47 Xain0n wrote:On March 01 2019 20:41 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:31 Snakestyle11 wrote:
I dont want to jynx it, but it seems to be Serral is just on another level than any other player in the world. Literally one class above code S.
I have never seen someone dominate other top players in such a convincing fashion with no holes, no weakness. If sc2 can stay esports for a few more years, I wouldnt be surprised if Serral surpasses Flashs level of dominance in broodwar.... If he's so good where are his Code S titles? oO And as much as I don't like Flash his level of dominance is totally something different. Serral is nowhere near this. And Flash wasn't avoiding the Korean competition in WCS IIRC. Serral can't win Code S if he never plays it; he might do it one day, deal with it for now. Flash in Sc2 wasn't but a pale shade of what he is in BW; you can't compare him to Serral, only korean players are relevant in Brood War and they all play the same tournaments in the same scene. Also, according to Letmelose Nada is the best player in BW's history and there is a strong argument for that. Flash might be the best RTS player of all times but it's highly debatable, look at Moon's accomplishments in Warcraft III. Obviously he was comparing him to Flash in BW and Serral is nowhere near this kind of dominance. Accept it. I think he could be if he was playing Code S. But the way SC2 works he has 0 interest to play something else than the farmer league and global events. Thus the case is closed, isn't it? Comparing different games is stupid to begin with, even in the same genre (who's the best moba player, Faker or Dendi xD) and SC2 & BW only share the same name. They're very very different RTS that tests the RTS skills in a different manner so it's totally pointless to compare BW achievement to SC2 achievement. Except to have utter respect for people who were able to win titles in both. However Serral will be closer and closer to the title of best SC2 player in the history if he keeps up this level of play. I don't remember anyone feeling as dominant as he is. Zest, Life, Inno, Mvp... Zest always had this PvZ shackiness, Life had some huge ups but no real consistency. Inno early 2013 is comparable but he didn't have the same string of results (tilting and losing vs SK is something Serral has not done yet). Mvp 2011 was quite godlike but still not the same consistency. What's the last boX lost by serral against a kr player (not even counting foreigner). Only disappointing loss in like a year is the 2-0 vs soO at NW. And i'm a huge kr fanboy but he looks so much better than his opponent in most of his games it's unreal. PvZ shackiness? So what is Serral ZvT then?
If I remember correctly it was more about pvt shackiness, after the nerf of the msc vision, he looked fragile in the mu while only 2014 soO and prime Life seemed to be able to beat him.
As for serral zvt, I found it very good at hsc despite some flaws, I don't think he is that much better in zvp.
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On March 01 2019 21:01 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 21:00 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:58 Jasper_Ty wrote:
Are we just casually forgetting Maru winning 3 Code S's in a row? If we're talking about dominance then what Maru did in 2018 was almost completely unheard of in the history of Starcraft 2 (if we forget about Mvp 2011-2012 for a second). problem is that Maru lost every other tournament in the meanwhile :/ but yes 3 code S in a row is crazy and what he did to the korean scene was incredible. And he did that while Terran was weak, even more impressive. But he stole the last map to TY
Terran wasn't weak early 2018 tbh. Late 2018 on the other hand...
Really looking forward to Serral vs Gumi & Inno, we'll know a lot more about his ZvT chances.
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 01 2019 21:01 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 20:59 Poopi wrote:On March 01 2019 20:58 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 01 2019 20:53 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:51 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:47 Xain0n wrote:On March 01 2019 20:41 deacon.frost wrote:[quote] If he's so good where are his Code S titles? oO And as much as I don't like Flash his level of dominance is totally something different. Serral is nowhere near this. And Flash wasn't avoiding the Korean competition in WCS IIRC. Serral can't win Code S if he never plays it; he might do it one day, deal with it for now. Flash in Sc2 wasn't but a pale shade of what he is in BW; you can't compare him to Serral, only korean players are relevant in Brood War and they all play the same tournaments in the same scene. Also, according to Letmelose Nada is the best player in BW's history and there is a strong argument for that. Flash might be the best RTS player of all times but it's highly debatable, look at Moon's accomplishments in Warcraft III. Obviously he was comparing him to Flash in BW and Serral is nowhere near this kind of dominance. Accept it. I think he could be if he was playing Code S. But the way SC2 works he has 0 interest to play something else than the farmer league and global events. Thus the case is closed, isn't it? Comparing different games is stupid to begin with, even in the same genre (who's the best moba player, Faker or Dendi xD) and SC2 & BW only share the same name. They're very very different RTS that tests the RTS skills in a different manner so it's totally pointless to compare BW achievement to SC2 achievement. Except to have utter respect for people who were able to win titles in both. However Serral will be closer and closer to the title of best SC2 player in the history if he keeps up this level of play. I don't remember anyone feeling as dominant as he is. Zest, Life, Inno, Mvp... Zest always had this PvZ shackiness, Life had some huge ups but no real consistency. Inno early 2013 is comparable but he didn't have the same string of results (tilting and losing vs SK is something Serral has not done yet). Mvp 2011 was quite godlike but still not the same consistency. What's the last boX lost by serral against a kr player (not even counting foreigner). Only disappointing loss in like a year is the 2-0 vs soO at NW. And i'm a huge kr fanboy but he looks so much better than his opponent in most of his games it's unreal. PvZ shackiness? So what is Serral ZvT then? Nodoby ever won as many premier tournaments as he did in addiction to very good placements in the ones he didn't win, earned as much money and had a better streak in one year of Sc2; Serral's ZvT "weakness"? Lost one game against Maru at his peak while he still wasn't?
FFS even he admitted this last year he doesn't have good practice partners for ZvT and they have to archon the Terran. Don't be such a fanboy.
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On March 01 2019 21:02 romson87 wrote:
He bleeds..
He often bleeds, especially when he tries something like this Nydus.
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Mech vs Bio TvT is so cool.
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Serral confirmed slump
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On March 01 2019 21:01 Xain0n wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 20:59 Poopi wrote:On March 01 2019 20:58 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 01 2019 20:53 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:51 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:47 Xain0n wrote:On March 01 2019 20:41 deacon.frost wrote:[quote] If he's so good where are his Code S titles? oO And as much as I don't like Flash his level of dominance is totally something different. Serral is nowhere near this. And Flash wasn't avoiding the Korean competition in WCS IIRC. Serral can't win Code S if he never plays it; he might do it one day, deal with it for now. Flash in Sc2 wasn't but a pale shade of what he is in BW; you can't compare him to Serral, only korean players are relevant in Brood War and they all play the same tournaments in the same scene. Also, according to Letmelose Nada is the best player in BW's history and there is a strong argument for that. Flash might be the best RTS player of all times but it's highly debatable, look at Moon's accomplishments in Warcraft III. Obviously he was comparing him to Flash in BW and Serral is nowhere near this kind of dominance. Accept it. I think he could be if he was playing Code S. But the way SC2 works he has 0 interest to play something else than the farmer league and global events. Thus the case is closed, isn't it? Comparing different games is stupid to begin with, even in the same genre (who's the best moba player, Faker or Dendi xD) and SC2 & BW only share the same name. They're very very different RTS that tests the RTS skills in a different manner so it's totally pointless to compare BW achievement to SC2 achievement. Except to have utter respect for people who were able to win titles in both. However Serral will be closer and closer to the title of best SC2 player in the history if he keeps up this level of play. I don't remember anyone feeling as dominant as he is. Zest, Life, Inno, Mvp... Zest always had this PvZ shackiness, Life had some huge ups but no real consistency. Inno early 2013 is comparable but he didn't have the same string of results (tilting and losing vs SK is something Serral has not done yet). Mvp 2011 was quite godlike but still not the same consistency. What's the last boX lost by serral against a kr player (not even counting foreigner). Only disappointing loss in like a year is the 2-0 vs soO at NW. And i'm a huge kr fanboy but he looks so much better than his opponent in most of his games it's unreal. PvZ shackiness? So what is Serral ZvT then? Nodoby ever won as many premier tournaments as he did in addiction to very good placements in the ones he didn't win, earned as much money and had a better streak in one year of Sc2; Serral's ZvT "weakness"? Lost one game against Maru at his peak while he still wasn't?
Problem is you cant judge his ZvT since he didnt have to play against the very best terrans ( TY and Maru ) in a big tournament except when he lost, unlike his ZvP ( Stats twice ) , and ZvZ ( Rogue Blizzcon ).
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France12886 Posts
On March 01 2019 21:01 imre wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 20:59 Poopi wrote:On March 01 2019 20:58 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 01 2019 20:53 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:51 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:47 Xain0n wrote:On March 01 2019 20:41 deacon.frost wrote:[quote] If he's so good where are his Code S titles? oO And as much as I don't like Flash his level of dominance is totally something different. Serral is nowhere near this. And Flash wasn't avoiding the Korean competition in WCS IIRC. Serral can't win Code S if he never plays it; he might do it one day, deal with it for now. Flash in Sc2 wasn't but a pale shade of what he is in BW; you can't compare him to Serral, only korean players are relevant in Brood War and they all play the same tournaments in the same scene. Also, according to Letmelose Nada is the best player in BW's history and there is a strong argument for that. Flash might be the best RTS player of all times but it's highly debatable, look at Moon's accomplishments in Warcraft III. Obviously he was comparing him to Flash in BW and Serral is nowhere near this kind of dominance. Accept it. I think he could be if he was playing Code S. But the way SC2 works he has 0 interest to play something else than the farmer league and global events. Thus the case is closed, isn't it? Comparing different games is stupid to begin with, even in the same genre (who's the best moba player, Faker or Dendi xD) and SC2 & BW only share the same name. They're very very different RTS that tests the RTS skills in a different manner so it's totally pointless to compare BW achievement to SC2 achievement. Except to have utter respect for people who were able to win titles in both. However Serral will be closer and closer to the title of best SC2 player in the history if he keeps up this level of play. I don't remember anyone feeling as dominant as he is. Zest, Life, Inno, Mvp... Zest always had this PvZ shackiness, Life had some huge ups but no real consistency. Inno early 2013 is comparable but he didn't have the same string of results (tilting and losing vs SK is something Serral has not done yet). Mvp 2011 was quite godlike but still not the same consistency. What's the last boX lost by serral against a kr player (not even counting foreigner). Only disappointing loss in like a year is the 2-0 vs soO at NW. And i'm a huge kr fanboy but he looks so much better than his opponent in most of his games it's unreal. PvZ shackiness? So what is Serral ZvT then? rock solid compared to Zest PvZ xD
Yes but I think it's really unfortunate we didn't get to see him play more ZvT when he was that dominant. I think he had the mechanics skills to be great in it but he didn't face enough top terrans to be as proficient as Dark/Rogue in the MU during WESG. They showed ravens terrans were not that unbeatable whereas he was a bit clueless, then the match-up became Z favored afterwards (bar 2rax shenanigans) and we didn't even get to see him play good terrans in that setup.
Anyways it's unbelievable considering sc2 history that we are even arguing on a foreigner being the best in the world, things have changed.
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On March 01 2019 21:01 DieuCure wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 21:00 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:58 Jasper_Ty wrote:
Are we just casually forgetting Maru winning 3 Code S's in a row? If we're talking about dominance then what Maru did in 2018 was almost completely unheard of in the history of Starcraft 2 (if we forget about Mvp 2011-2012 for a second). problem is that Maru lost every other tournament in the meanwhile :/ but yes 3 code S in a row is crazy and what he did to the korean scene was incredible. And he did that while Terran was weak, even more impressive. But he stole the last map to TY
I'm still glad I turned off the stream before that last point. Was just excruciating. And probably the tightest timing ever
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12 pool, Serral wants to get this done.
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That's more like it Gumiho
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On March 01 2019 21:03 deacon.frost wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2019 21:01 Xain0n wrote:On March 01 2019 20:59 Poopi wrote:On March 01 2019 20:58 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:55 Charoisaur wrote:On March 01 2019 20:53 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:51 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 imre wrote:On March 01 2019 20:49 deacon.frost wrote:On March 01 2019 20:47 Xain0n wrote:
[quote]
Serral can't win Code S if he never plays it; he might do it one day, deal with it for now.
Flash in Sc2 wasn't but a pale shade of what he is in BW; you can't compare him to Serral, only korean players are relevant in Brood War and they all play the same tournaments in the same scene.
Also, according to Letmelose Nada is the best player in BW's history and there is a strong argument for that.
Flash might be the best RTS player of all times but it's highly debatable, look at Moon's accomplishments in Warcraft III.
Obviously he was comparing him to Flash in BW and Serral is nowhere near this kind of dominance. Accept it. I think he could be if he was playing Code S. But the way SC2 works he has 0 interest to play something else than the farmer league and global events. Thus the case is closed, isn't it? Comparing different games is stupid to begin with, even in the same genre (who's the best moba player, Faker or Dendi xD) and SC2 & BW only share the same name. They're very very different RTS that tests the RTS skills in a different manner so it's totally pointless to compare BW achievement to SC2 achievement. Except to have utter respect for people who were able to win titles in both. However Serral will be closer and closer to the title of best SC2 player in the history if he keeps up this level of play. I don't remember anyone feeling as dominant as he is. Zest, Life, Inno, Mvp... Zest always had this PvZ shackiness, Life had some huge ups but no real consistency. Inno early 2013 is comparable but he didn't have the same string of results (tilting and losing vs SK is something Serral has not done yet). Mvp 2011 was quite godlike but still not the same consistency. What's the last boX lost by serral against a kr player (not even counting foreigner). Only disappointing loss in like a year is the 2-0 vs soO at NW. And i'm a huge kr fanboy but he looks so much better than his opponent in most of his games it's unreal. PvZ shackiness? So what is Serral ZvT then? Nodoby ever won as many premier tournaments as he did in addiction to very good placements in the ones he didn't win, earned as much money and had a better streak in one year of Sc2; Serral's ZvT "weakness"? Lost one game against Maru at his peak while he still wasn't? FFS even he admitted this last year he doesn't have good practice partners for ZvT and they have to archon the Terran. Don't be such a fanboy.
It's his worst matchup, and he didn't have to play the best T in official tournaments once he rose to dominance as well. He 3-0d Inno and beat Maru at GSL vs the World; he won HSC essentially against T while never losing a single series.
If that is weakness...
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Czech Republic12129 Posts
On March 01 2019 21:05 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
That's more like it Gumiho
So Inno stil slumping? Bah, TY confirmed as the only hope.
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EPT
