Taeja has shown an ability to really scale up in tournaments (see IEM Shanghai 2014), and Serral's ZvT looks less scary than his other two MU, but I definitely don't think he's ready yet. Maybe in 3-4 months of hard training.
Should see a cool ZvZ rematch between Serral and Reynor in the next round though.
==
Projecting ahead though, Taeja might be able to make it far in this one. He'll probably hit Bogus near the end and get ravaged though :/
I couldn't catch the group stage live, so I'm just watching the VODs now, but does anyone else absolutely hate where the player cams are placed? Having player cams is nice, but not when it covers a huge amount of screen real estate--it feels like the bottom half of every fight is cut off.
Yes, I hate it too. Hope they can at least shift it somewhere else / make them smaller
On November 24 2018 12:43 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I couldn't catch the group stage live, so I'm just watching the VODs now, but does anyone else absolutely hate where the player cams are placed? Having player cams is nice, but not when it covers a huge amount of screen real estate--it feels like the bottom half of every fight is cut off.
On November 24 2018 12:43 ZigguratOfUr wrote: I couldn't catch the group stage live, so I'm just watching the VODs now, but does anyone else absolutely hate where the player cams are placed? Having player cams is nice, but not when it covers a huge amount of screen real estate--it feels like the bottom half of every fight is cut off.
I thought about it too, it is very much in the way. Would be nice if they scaled it down a bit.
On November 24 2018 16:36 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Solar 2-3 Bogus
Coming home in an hour after a 30h trip to just lay on my sofa with a pizza and watch StarCraft with my girlfriend. It doesn't get much better than this :-) looking forward to some great matches!
Solar 3-1 Bogus - o looked super bad against Zerg or at least not strong. Dropped Maps to Zanster, lost to Reynor etc ShoWTimE 1-3 Bunny - owtime to me looked a bit shaky in PvT Serral 3-0 TaeJa TaeJas style is very passive in TvZ and slow, no Chance I feel like Reynor 2-3 uThermal - very close call , really depends on what Level uThermal can bring. If he is in good shape he can take it, otherwise Reynor easy.
==
Elazer 2-3 Harstem - harstem was Pretty happy About PvZ and felt good About it iirc. I think he can take it Zest 3-2 Trap - pvp is hectic, I think 3-0 is unlikely. Bly 2-3 PtitDrogo - I would give the Edge to drogo over bly but this can go either way Cure 3-1 Kelazhur - I think Cure is more experienced in TvT due to playing in Korea;
On November 24 2018 19:33 ShAd_1337 wrote: all games on main stream? i guess maybe not?
two games at the same time.
Zest vs Trap / Kelazhur vs Cure Harstem vs Elazer / PtitDrogo vs Bly Innovation vs Solar / Bunny vs Showtime (that hurts) TaeJa vs Serral / uThermal vs Reynor
subject to Change as I feel TaeJa vs Serral is a good match up in Terms of Story / hype but in reality could easily be a 3-0 clean sweep. This will be decided while we go.
I too got a feeling uThermal will win against Reynor, he 2-0'ed Namshar and Rogue yesterday. I didn't see the games but it's possible he's very good against Zerg this patch, considering he already was good before.
It's possible I'll watch that instead tbh, I can't imagine Serral vs Taeja to be close at all. Like Naruto said, Taeja didn't play like Bunny at all, and the TvZ of Taeja should be a lot easier for Serral. Unless Taeja shows different TvZ today.
I love how he played a terrible game, then a great game and then combined the two by falling behind early with terrible play, and then making a great move to win anyways.
Wow, can't remember the last time a saw a progamer take their hands of the keyboard so many times during the game as Trap did for these last two losses.
How do zerglings fare vs new cyclone? I was thinking why not flank uthermals army with some lings. lock-on is pretty much wasted on lings and roaches can then close the distance
On November 25 2018 00:00 Harris1st wrote: How do zerglings fare vs new cyclone? I was thinking why not flank uthermals army with some lings. lock-on is pretty much wasted on lings and roaches can then close the distance
He usually had hellbats and a ton of banshees helped too.
Proxy rax scouted and really bad bunker rush. Should be over, he's no Maru, right?
Innovation and Bunny have both been playing great this tournament. And with uThermal looking good we might see three terrans in the upper winners bracket
On November 25 2018 00:22 Pandain wrote: Innovation and Bunny have both been playing great this tournament. And with uThermal looking good we might see three terrans in the upper winners bracket
INno and Bunny went full multitask / mines in their TvZ while uThermal seems to exploit new mech compos
Gonna be a rough couple of weeks for zergs to figure everything out
On November 25 2018 00:22 Pandain wrote: Innovation and Bunny have both been playing great this tournament. And with uThermal looking good we might see three terrans in the upper winners bracket
And they all play very different in TvZ. I like uThermals style the most tbh, although Bunny is the nicest to watch.
On November 25 2018 00:50 Durnuu wrote: On the other hand, I CAN wait to see Serral run a bunch of lings and Taeja dying
Taeja will swat that part. It's the later stages of TvZ where he seems to be crumbling. He's a bit too passive and doesn't quite seem to have the flow of the mu down yet.
It always was his weakest matchup but it's understandable when you look at EU and NA terran; moreover, patch happened. Terrans are performing very well at this HSC and Zergs probably need more time to adapt.
On November 25 2018 01:33 Xain0n wrote: It always was his weakest matchup but it's understandable when you look at EU and NA terran; moreover, patch happened. Terrans are performing very well at this HSC and Zergs probably need more time to adapt.
This!
Except for Special and uThermal most foreign terrans are okay but not exceptionally great.
On November 25 2018 01:32 Anc13nt wrote: tbh, watching these games I think if Maru fought Serral, it would've been like 4-2.
Yes, because games played surrounded by half drunk gemrans are the same as super preparation, super focused tourneys.
Serral beat Maru once and would probably beat him again.
He isnt surrounded by anyone actually. But of Course a Blizzcon etc is still a difference. No matter how - Maru can win and Serral can win as well. A shame we never saw it so far.
On November 25 2018 01:32 Anc13nt wrote: tbh, watching these games I think if Maru fought Serral, it would've been like 4-2.
Yes, because games played surrounded by half drunk gemrans are the same as super preparation, super focused tourneys.
Serral beat Maru once and would probably beat him again.
He isnt surrounded by anyone actually. But of Course a Blizzcon etc is still a difference. No matter how - Maru can win and Serral can win as well. A shame we never saw it so far.
Serral with the mind games, made Taeja overconfident on that attack on the third, loses his third so he can destroy Taeja's entire army. That's my headcanon for him losing his third like that
On November 25 2018 01:37 mCon.Hephaistas wrote: The patch was pretty good for Terran imo
Well, stronger mines and worse queens & creep spread helped Terran a bit in the match up. Also Cyclones but other than from uThermal they weren't massed so far.
On November 25 2018 01:38 Anc13nt wrote: I thought Taeja had no chance but its going ok for him.
We all have weird calls. Even Naruto thought Bunny vs Showtime was going to be the more interesting series.
There was a Chance for it to be and most People agree - you can disagree with me but you would disagree with a lot of pros as well Not wanting to argue but if you fail to see that Serral vs Taeja could have been a bop based on his previous games I am not sure what I can tell you.
On November 25 2018 01:38 Anc13nt wrote: I thought Taeja had no chance but its going ok for him.
We all have weird calls. Even Naruto thought Bunny vs Showtime was going to be the more interesting series.
There was a Chance for it to be and most People agree - you can disagree with me but you would disagree with a lot of pros as well Not wanting to argue but if you fail to see that Serral vs Taeja could have been a bop based on his previous games I am not sure what I can tell you.
On November 25 2018 01:51 DBooN wrote: If only TY didn't suicide against Rogue...
He would have been steamrolled. He lost a game against Lambo, you know
what's worse? losing a game vs Lambo or losing a game to current TaeJa?
Against Lambo without a doubt. Anyway, BlizzCon Serral>HSC Serral and last patch's Zerg>this patch Zerg whereas last patch's Terran>this patch's Terran.
On November 25 2018 01:58 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: "That was a beautiful engamgent by serral" wtf rotti we watching the same game here? Serral playing awful
I'm watching Crank's stream, because I already know what the English commentary is like.
Aren't you guys kind of overreacting? It's good to see Taeja back, but seems like Terran are very ahead when it comes to understanding this patch. Right now every single Terran advanced, and the game is not even over.
On the other hand, it seems like It's time for Serral to go to Korea in order to practice his ZvT.
Serral has always been completely untested vs top Korean Terrans. I think blizzcon would have ended a lot differently if Serral had got matched with Maru or Ty at any point.
On November 25 2018 02:07 Xain0n wrote: Rofl. You guys are basically comparing HSC at 8k being played on a new patch to six months of unprecedent dominance ending up in 280k at BlizzCOn?
On November 25 2018 01:58 Rodya wrote: highest skilled era?
Taeja isn't even at his previous form yet.
The people claiming the players massively improved in the last 2-3 years might reconsider their opinion
According to some zerg pro serral is stronger than Life ever was lul.
Modern LotV is just more impressive to watch than HotS ever was. It has more focus on flashy things like micro or multitasking.
Life's timing and tactical ability are still unmatched as far as zergs go.
except TvZ imo. Dream vs Life and Dark are still the most impressive games I've ever seen.
Even then, to casual viewer a lot of modern TvZs may look more impressive. The actual skill of the players might be the same or worse, but LotV just looks more scrappy. Especially in lategame.
Also both the Dream vs Life matches are all-time great series. A lot of TvZs back then were pretty straight forward, especially in the mech times.
On November 25 2018 02:07 Xain0n wrote: Rofl. You guys are basically comparing HSC at 8k being played on a new patch to six months of unprecedent dominance ending up in 280k at BlizzCOn?
Honestly, this is pretty hype because it's massive upset but I think most people still think Serral is best in the world. I think Maru would beat him but we have to account for Serral winning Blizzcon and that's why I would still rank him as the best atm.
On November 25 2018 02:08 Durnuu wrote: Can we talk about the fact that burrow and unburrow are different hotkeys now and you literally can't put them on the same hotkey anymore
it's annoying as first but I think once you get used to it there's no reason to have it on the same key. seperate keys are just better in every scenario. Terran also has it with siege/unsiege
On November 25 2018 02:08 JJH777 wrote: Serral has always been completely untested vs top Korean Terrans. I think blizzcon would have ended a lot differently if Serral had got matched with Maru or Ty at any point.
No way. Serral was playing perfectly at BlizzCon, now look at these mutas.
On November 25 2018 02:07 Xain0n wrote: Rofl. You guys are basically comparing HSC at 8k being played on a new patch to six months of unprecedent dominance ending up in 280k at BlizzCOn?
is serral a patch zerg tho? weak muta control displayed here, I think he needs that free creep vision everywhere
On November 25 2018 02:08 Durnuu wrote: Can we talk about the fact that burrow and unburrow are different hotkeys now and you literally can't put them on the same hotkey anymore
it's annoying as first but I think once you get used to it there's no reason to have it on the same key. seperate keys are just better in every scenario. Terran also has it with siege/unsiege
It still annoys me that i don't have the option to have it the same as pre-patch Not that I play much anymore anyway
On November 25 2018 02:07 Xain0n wrote: Rofl. You guys are basically comparing HSC at 8k being played on a new patch to six months of unprecedent dominance ending up in 280k at BlizzCOn?
Well, so WeSG > GSL WCS IEM ?
I'll rephrase. A single minor tournament compared to five consecutive premier tournaments including the most prestigious one.
On November 25 2018 02:08 JJH777 wrote: Serral has always been completely untested vs top Korean Terrans. I think blizzcon would have ended a lot differently if Serral had got matched with Maru or Ty at any point.
No way. Serral was playing perfectly at BlizzCon, now look at these mutas.
Day to day form is worth taking into account and of course I'll admit Serral was playing better at Blizzcon but Taeja is also way worse than Ty or Maru.
On November 25 2018 02:08 JJH777 wrote: Serral has always been completely untested vs top Korean Terrans. I think blizzcon would have ended a lot differently if Serral had got matched with Maru or Ty at any point.
No way. Serral was playing perfectly at BlizzCon, now look at these mutas.
Day to day form is worth taking into account and of course I'll admit Serral was playing better at Blizzcon but Taeja is also way worse than Ty or Maru.
Also Zanster took a game from Inno already this HSC, so he's definitely not in his best form as well
isnt it worthwhile just putting down an additional spore in one or two bases given how much damage the banshees have been doing? They're useful later against drops anyhow.
On November 25 2018 02:08 JJH777 wrote: Serral has always been completely untested vs top Korean Terrans. I think blizzcon would have ended a lot differently if Serral had got matched with Maru or Ty at any point.
No way. Serral was playing perfectly at BlizzCon, now look at these mutas.
Day to day form is worth taking into account and of course I'll admit Serral was playing better at Blizzcon but Taeja is also way worse than Ty or Maru.
Serral was playing way better and he was 100% better than Rogue who could have lost 2-3 against TY; even considering his ZvT, he had beaten Maru(in a showmatch) during the patch so i am absolutely positive Serral would have won at least 3-1 against TY.
On November 25 2018 02:07 Xain0n wrote: Rofl. You guys are basically comparing HSC at 8k being played on a new patch to six months of unprecedent dominance ending up in 280k at BlizzCOn?
is serral a patch zerg tho? weak muta control displayed here, I think he needs that free creep vision everywhere
As i said, ofc he is not. There are two things to be taken into account here: Serral not playing as perfectly as he used to AND Zerg underperforming as a whole; he still is the best zerg so he can't be a patch zerg.
On November 25 2018 02:08 JJH777 wrote: Serral has always been completely untested vs top Korean Terrans. I think blizzcon would have ended a lot differently if Serral had got matched with Maru or Ty at any point.
No way. Serral was playing perfectly at BlizzCon, now look at these mutas.
Day to day form is worth taking into account and of course I'll admit Serral was playing better at Blizzcon but Taeja is also way worse than Ty or Maru.
Serral was playing way better and he was 100% better than Rogue who could have lost 2-3 against TY; even considering his ZvT, he had beaten Maru(in a showmatch) during the patch so i am absolutely positive Serral would have won at least 3-1 against TY.
He was better than Rogue in ZvZ. I would not be surprised if Rogue at blizzcon had better ZvT than Serral at all considering he had been practicing with Maru heavily.
On November 25 2018 02:08 JJH777 wrote: Serral has always been completely untested vs top Korean Terrans. I think blizzcon would have ended a lot differently if Serral had got matched with Maru or Ty at any point.
No way. Serral was playing perfectly at BlizzCon, now look at these mutas.
Day to day form is worth taking into account and of course I'll admit Serral was playing better at Blizzcon but Taeja is also way worse than Ty or Maru.
Serral was playing way better and he was 100% better than Rogue who could have lost 2-3 against TY; even considering his ZvT, he had beaten Maru(in a showmatch) during the patch so i am absolutely positive Serral would have won at least 3-1 against TY.
He was better than Rogue in ZvZ. I would not be surprised if Rogue at blizzcon had better ZvT than Serral at all considering he had been practicing with Maru heavily.
Practicing with Maru sounds like it would simultaneously be demoralizing and would teach you a bunch of bad habits.
SERRAL! I have been telling the BANES. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is Unburrow and hit! Your army is also helping in trying to lure the bio and ghosts to the 3 banes.
On November 25 2018 02:36 sneakyfox wrote: So Serral takes it 3 - 2 and TY is right again
Literal prediction god.
Should make his money placing bets instead.
Did you get the rest of his predictions down?
He was right about everything in loser bracket, he predicted Serral 3-2 TaeJa and I think he also had Bunny 3-1 Showtime (not sure). He also predicted Reynor 3-1 uThermal and Inno 3-2 Solar.
His top 4 was Solar (or Zest), Inno, Reynor and Serral.
On November 25 2018 02:36 sneakyfox wrote: So Serral takes it 3 - 2 and TY is right again
Literal prediction god.
Should make his money placing bets instead.
Did you get the rest of his predictions down?
He was right about everything in loser bracket, he predicted Serral 3-2 TaeJa and I think he also had Bunny 3-1 Showtime (not sure). He also predicted Reynor 3-1 uThermal and Inno 3-2 Solar.
His top 4 was Solar (or Zest), Inno, Reynor and Serral.
On November 25 2018 02:36 sneakyfox wrote: So Serral takes it 3 - 2 and TY is right again
Literal prediction god.
Should make his money placing bets instead.
Did you get the rest of his predictions down?
He was right about everything in loser bracket, he predicted Serral 3-2 TaeJa and I think he also had Bunny 3-1 Showtime (not sure). He also predicted Reynor 3-1 uThermal and Inno 3-2 Solar.
His top 4 was Solar (or Zest), Inno, Reynor and Serral.
Where did TY predict the bracket?
On his stream today. It's a 7 hour 30 min Afreeca VOD so don't blame me if I don't double check if I got it right btw.
On November 25 2018 02:36 sneakyfox wrote: So Serral takes it 3 - 2 and TY is right again
Literal prediction god.
Should make his money placing bets instead.
Did you get the rest of his predictions down?
He was right about everything in loser bracket, he predicted Serral 3-2 TaeJa and I think he also had Bunny 3-1 Showtime (not sure). He also predicted Reynor 3-1 uThermal and Inno 3-2 Solar.
His top 4 was Solar (or Zest), Inno, Reynor and Serral.
taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
On November 25 2018 02:48 IshinShishi wrote: taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
On November 25 2018 02:48 IshinShishi wrote: taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
Him not splitting cost him the game a lot more
but he didnt split because the mutas distracted him too much, if he had made turrets instead he could full focus and bop serral.
On November 25 2018 02:48 IshinShishi wrote: taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
Him not splitting cost him the game a lot more
but he didnt split because the mutas distracted him too much, if he had made turrets instead he could full focus and bop serral.
His splits suck even when he's looking at his army.
On November 25 2018 02:48 IshinShishi wrote: taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
Him not splitting cost him the game a lot more
but he didnt split because the mutas distracted him too much, if he had made turrets instead he could full focus and bop serral.
His splits suck even when he's looking at his army.
the splits aren't polt level, but they are pretty okay.
The real question is how many overlords elazer will make per game this time, I will bet on 33.
On November 25 2018 02:52 sudete wrote: if taeja cleans up his game, he'll surely be a contender for gsl yes?
ofc. If he doesn't lose his motivation which he's been prone to in the past, he should be ready in about 3-4 months I'd imagine. His mechanics still look stellar, I just think he's a little lost in the latter stages of the game.
On November 25 2018 02:48 IshinShishi wrote: taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
Him not splitting cost him the game a lot more
but he didnt split because the mutas distracted him too much, if he had made turrets instead he could full focus and bop serral.
His splits suck even when he's looking at his army.
the splits aren't polt level, but they are pretty okay.
Pretty okay is sadly not good enough if your macro is as out of practice as TaeJa's. That Blueshift game was hilariously frustrating in particular on that front.
On November 25 2018 02:48 IshinShishi wrote: taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
Him not splitting cost him the game a lot more
but he didnt split because the mutas distracted him too much, if he had made turrets instead he could full focus and bop serral.
His splits suck even when he's looking at his army.
That's the thing with taeja, his splits are not flashy but there are super efficient and he relies a lot on a superb positionning. (Well not this particular time but overrall, he demonstrated it in the bo5)
Hope Reynor wins this and Taeja doesn't get Bly'd. That'd be an interesting match in the next round and it's probably best Taeja can remain focused on a single matchup as much as possible for this tournament
Homestory is such a great tournament, i'm going to miss it so much when it finishes someday. I consider myself a Maru fanboy, but Serral's lvl of dominance is amazing. Defeat this kid in a bo5 is something serious. And about Taeja, he has an infinite class and I hope he continues playing sc2 as long as possible.
On November 25 2018 02:48 IshinShishi wrote: taeja completely disrespected serral's mutas, not sure why, maybe no respect for foreign muta control, people should ask him because it cost him the game
Him not splitting cost him the game a lot more
but he didnt split because the mutas distracted him too much, if he had made turrets instead he could full focus and bop serral.
His splits suck even when he's looking at his army.
the splits aren't polt level, but they are pretty okay.
Taeja wasn't respecting mutas but he definitely lost to banelings. If Serral was playing against someone who could split better than Taeja he'd have lost here for sure; on the other hand, godlike Serral with his extremely good control would have looked definitely better than he did last game.
On November 25 2018 02:52 sudete wrote: if taeja cleans up his game, he'll surely be a contender for gsl yes?
ofc. If he doesn't lose his motivation which he's been prone to in the past, he should be ready in about 3-4 months I'd imagine. His mechanics still look stellar, I just think he's a little lost in the latter stages of the game.
His macro damn near cost him the game on Blueshift because he didn't have production for his 2k/2k bank. He's got some time left to stellar.
On November 25 2018 02:52 Rodya wrote: Taeja proved that he is on the same level as Serral at least - this implies that he has the potential to be a top 5 player in the very near future.
On November 25 2018 02:52 Rodya wrote: Taeja proved that he is on the same level as Serral at least - this implies that he has the potential to be a top 5 player in the very near future.
Or Serral just has meh ZvT which really shouldn't be surprising. The series against Bunny was just as close as this one. Honestly if Serral had good ZvT that would be a huge issue with the game. He shouldn't be good at ZvT with how little practice he gets vs top Terrans.
On November 25 2018 02:52 Rodya wrote: Taeja proved that he is on the same level as Serral at least - this implies that he has the potential to be a top 5 player in the very near future.
Or widow mines and cyclones will be figured out and the will fall to top 10.
On November 25 2018 02:52 Rodya wrote: Taeja proved that he is on the same level as Serral at least - this implies that he has the potential to be a top 5 player in the very near future.
Or widow mines and cyclones will be figured out and the will fall to top 10.
I am just happy this tournament has great games , fierce competition and a lot of fun. Thankful for every player, fan and obviously the team behind it. If the final is as great as the series we just had, we all win.
On November 25 2018 03:08 NarutO wrote: I am just happy this tournament has great games , fierce competition and a lot of fun. Thankful for every player, fan and obviously the team behind it. If the final is as great as the series we just had, we all win.
Exactly. The patch is new and things may not be figured out completely and some race might be OP now, who knows. But at least the games were awesome so far.
On November 25 2018 03:08 NarutO wrote: I am just happy this tournament has great games , fierce competition and a lot of fun. Thankful for every player, fan and obviously the team behind it. If the final is as great as the series we just had, we all win.
On November 25 2018 03:08 NarutO wrote: I am just happy this tournament has great games , fierce competition and a lot of fun. Thankful for every player, fan and obviously the team behind it. If the final is as great as the series we just had, we all win.
The gap is really closing, we are almost to the point where foreigner are able to say they just want to show good game
On November 25 2018 02:52 Rodya wrote: Taeja proved that he is on the same level as Serral at least - this implies that he has the potential to be a top 5 player in the very near future.
Or widow mines and cyclones will be figured out and the will fall to top 10.
yeah widow mines just aren't figured out. The one year where widow mines were slightly worse made everyone forget the 5 years they dealt with stronger mines than the current ones.
I felt like Serral gambled needlessly going for the ravager timing in the second game vs. Taeja. His win was so solid in game 1 I don't know why not just make Taeja prove he can win macro vs. macro. Maybe a map dictated choice?
On November 24 2018 19:33 ShAd_1337 wrote: all games on main stream? i guess maybe not?
two games at the same time.
Zest vs Trap / Kelazhur vs Cure Harstem vs Elazer / PtitDrogo vs Bly Innovation vs Solar / Bunny vs Showtime (that hurts) TaeJa vs Serral / uThermal vs Reynor
subject to Change as I feel TaeJa vs Serral is a good match up in Terms of Story / hype but in reality could easily be a 3-0 clean sweep. This will be decided while we go.
On November 25 2018 04:22 Poopfeast 024 wrote: Stephano doesn't seem to be into Incontrol's humour today at all. I wonder if there's some tension between the two.
On November 25 2018 04:22 Poopfeast 024 wrote: Stephano doesn't seem to be into Incontrol's humour today at all. I wonder if there's some tension between the two.
On November 25 2018 05:00 sneakyfox wrote: Guess the show ends early today. Only two more matches after these, and if they're played simultaneously we'll be done before midnight.
That's a bit odd that the new HSC format has twice the number of matches (134 vs 67, including 21 bo5 + 1 bo7 vs 6 bo5 + 1 bo7) and the broadcast seems shorter than in the past.
On November 25 2018 05:40 Heartland wrote: Remember those glorious days of double proxy SG mass Oracle?
the time when Has revolutionized the meta
If only. Has went mass oracles a whole bunch, nobody payed any attention since it was Has, and six months down the line other protosses realized it was actually good and actually made it meta.
zest is gonna kill that overseer and swarm Bly with dark templars
We haven't yet seen how OP the DT blink buff is.
DT shine have an animation too now, such a big nerf to blink DT, now you can see it coming. Elazer's maybe not on point on his DT blink timing scouting yet tho
On November 25 2018 06:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On November 25 2018 06:04 HolydaKing wrote:
On November 25 2018 06:02 DieuCure wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:57 Heartland wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:51 Xain0n wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:49 HolydaKing wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:48 sneakyfox wrote: TaeJa won so we get a nice mid-level Korean TvT to finish the day
Terrans are owning this tournament. ^^
Four terrans out of six remaining players...
And still Terrans are going to find some ways to say they're underpowered
44% of the Terrans in the tournament are KR, 23% of the Z, 30% of the P.
This isnt the best indicator of quality, but still.
KR Zerg < EU Zerg!
It's sad that this isn't even that far off from reality. Too many great Zergs left the scene in Korea.
Hope DRG returns to form quickly like Taeja
Don't hold your breath, Taeja is four years younger.
DRG actually looked pretty respectable in the Afreeca team league. I think on a good day he can still make some cool stuff happen. But yeah the Korean scene is low on Zerg.
On November 25 2018 06:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On November 25 2018 06:04 HolydaKing wrote:
On November 25 2018 06:02 DieuCure wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:57 Heartland wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:51 Xain0n wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:49 HolydaKing wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:48 sneakyfox wrote: TaeJa won so we get a nice mid-level Korean TvT to finish the day
Terrans are owning this tournament. ^^
Four terrans out of six remaining players...
And still Terrans are going to find some ways to say they're underpowered
44% of the Terrans in the tournament are KR, 23% of the Z, 30% of the P.
This isnt the best indicator of quality, but still.
KR Zerg < EU Zerg!
It's sad that this isn't even that far off from reality. Too many great Zergs left the scene in Korea.
Hope DRG returns to form quickly like Taeja
Don't hold your breath, Taeja is four years younger.
DRG actually looked pretty respectable in the Afreeca team league. I think on a good day he can still make some cool stuff happen. But yeah the Korean scene is low on Zerg.
Artosis told me Leenock is totally gonna crush it next year though
On November 25 2018 06:06 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On November 25 2018 06:04 HolydaKing wrote:
On November 25 2018 06:02 DieuCure wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:57 Heartland wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:51 Xain0n wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:49 HolydaKing wrote:
On November 25 2018 05:48 sneakyfox wrote: TaeJa won so we get a nice mid-level Korean TvT to finish the day
Terrans are owning this tournament. ^^
Four terrans out of six remaining players...
And still Terrans are going to find some ways to say they're underpowered
44% of the Terrans in the tournament are KR, 23% of the Z, 30% of the P.
This isnt the best indicator of quality, but still.
KR Zerg < EU Zerg!
It's sad that this isn't even that far off from reality. Too many great Zergs left the scene in Korea.
Hope DRG returns to form quickly like Taeja
Don't hold your breath, Taeja is four years younger.
DRG actually looked pretty respectable in the Afreeca team league. I think on a good day he can still make some cool stuff happen. But yeah the Korean scene is low on Zerg.
Artosis told me Leenock is totally gonna crush it next year though
On November 25 2018 06:19 terribleplayer1 wrote: Anyone who wants to argue that the T's on this tournament were better than the Z's is delusional.
You literally had 5 of the top6 zergs in the world + Elazer/Lambo, yet you end up with 1 Z(serral) in the RO8.
It's like if you had Maru Gumiho Byun Innovation Cure, and Dark leenock losira elazer lambo, and you ended up with 4 Zergs and Maru.
Hopefully Zergs can figure stuff out, but I can only imagine how fucking destroyed zerg is going to get on GSL.
Rogue and soO just played terrible, has nothing to do with the patch. If they had played as they do usually not even 2010 level imbalance would've prevented them from advancing.
On November 25 2018 06:19 terribleplayer1 wrote: Anyone who wants to argue that the T's on this tournament were better than the Z's is delusional.
You literally had 5 of the top6 zergs in the world + Elazer/Lambo, yet you end up with 1 Z(serral) in the RO8.
It's like if you had Maru Gumiho Byun Innovation Cure, and Dark leenock losira elazer lambo, and you ended up with 4 Zergs and Maru.
Hopefully Zergs can figure stuff out, but I can only imagine how fucking destroyed zerg is going to get on GSL.
I think they probably will figure things out in time. But yeah, it's early to say but I think only zerg atm who I think could consistently beat terrans is Dark.\
Edit: And tbf, in my opinion TvZ was a bit in zerg's favour after the raven nerf so I like that they kind of turned the tables but hopefully not too significantly.
Obviously it's gonna take Zergs some time to adjust, the speed at which the Terran meta switched from tank timings to bio/mine is impressive. But I'm confident that Dark would convincingly beat any Terran in this tournament anyway.
On November 25 2018 06:25 sneakyfox wrote: Also, Solar lost a single series to a Terran (Innovation is actually playing well too), but he lost to two Zergs. Not much to do with balance.
On November 25 2018 06:25 ubikz wrote: Which would be Zest's place in sc2 history? Maybe the best toss despite his slumps?
I think if Zest didn't take 2017 off he'd be clearly the greatest Protoss in SC2 history for sure. As it is I think it's kinda close because of Stats' insane consistency throughout the last few years.
On November 25 2018 06:19 terribleplayer1 wrote: Anyone who wants to argue that the T's on this tournament were better than the Z's is delusional.
You literally had 5 of the top6 zergs in the world + Elazer/Lambo, yet you end up with 1 Z(serral) in the RO8.
It's like if you had Maru Gumiho Byun Innovation Cure, and Dark leenock losira elazer lambo, and you ended up with 4 Zergs and Maru.
Hopefully Zergs can figure stuff out, but I can only imagine how fucking destroyed zerg is going to get on GSL.
All the Ts still in the tournament besides uthermal lost to a Zerg in group stages. They just had a good day/matchups today. The first truly good day for Terrans in a tournament besides GSL in an incredibly long time.
On November 25 2018 06:24 Elentos wrote: Obviously it's gonna take Zergs some time to adjust, the speed at which the Terran meta switched from tank timings to bio/mine is impressive. But I'm confident that Dark would convincingly beat any Terran in this tournament anyway.
Not to mention his casting skills and his mexican dress!
On November 25 2018 06:25 ubikz wrote: Which would be Zest's place in sc2 history? Maybe the best toss despite his slumps?
I think if Zest didn't take 2017 off he'd be clearly the greatest Protoss in SC2 history for sure. As it is I think it's kinda close because of Stats' insane consistency throughout the last few years.
I heard that PL ended in 2016 because a player canonrushed in finals, would the greatest Protoss in SC2 history Canon RUsh in the last PL finals ?
Sure you can always just say Zegs playing poorly, but you can't say the Zergs were worst than the Terran's overall.
If this tournament was the other way around stacked with Terran's and not so great zergs destroying the tournament I can only imagine how these threads would look ;p.
>The first truly good day for Terrans in a tournament besides GSL in an incredibly long time.
On November 25 2018 06:30 terribleplayer1 wrote: Sure you can always just say Zegs playing poorly, but you can't say the Zergs were worst than the Terran's overall.
If this tournament was the other way around stacked with Terran's and not so great zergs destroying the tournament I can only imagine how these threads would look ;p.
Ok, watch the games please :
+ TvZ wr = 55% "Oh my god, terran is insane on this patch"
On November 25 2018 06:25 ubikz wrote: Which would be Zest's place in sc2 history? Maybe the best toss despite his slumps?
I think if Zest didn't take 2017 off he'd be clearly the greatest Protoss in SC2 history for sure. As it is I think it's kinda close because of Stats' insane consistency throughout the last few years.
I heard that PL ended in 2016 because a player canonrushed in finals, would the greatest Protoss in SC2 history Canon RUsh in the last PL finals ?
I think blaming the end of Proleague on Zest's cannon rush is a bit harsh. But if there's no WCS next year I'll just blame sOs' cannon rush against Serral now
On November 25 2018 06:30 terribleplayer1 wrote: Sure you can always just say Zegs playing poorly, but you can't say the Zergs were worst than the Terran's overall.
If this tournament was the other way around stacked with Terran's and not so great zergs destroying the tournament I can only imagine how these threads would look ;p.
>The first truly good day for Terrans in a tournament besides GSL in an incredibly long time.
This isn't good, this is insane honestly.
Are you on mobile or do you just reject the existence of the quote button?
On November 25 2018 06:25 ubikz wrote: Which would be Zest's place in sc2 history? Maybe the best toss despite his slumps?
I think if Zest didn't take 2017 off he'd be clearly the greatest Protoss in SC2 history for sure. As it is I think it's kinda close because of Stats' insane consistency throughout the last few years.
I heard that PL ended in 2016 because a player canonrushed in finals, would the greatest Protoss in SC2 history Canon RUsh in the last PL finals ?
I think blaming the end of Proleague on Zest's cannon rush is a bit harsh. But if there's no WCS next year I'll just blame sOs' cannon rush against Serral now
On November 25 2018 06:30 terribleplayer1 wrote: Sure you can always just say Zegs playing poorly, but you can't say the Zergs were worst than the Terran's overall.
If this tournament was the other way around stacked with Terran's and not so great zergs destroying the tournament I can only imagine how these threads would look ;p.
>The first truly good day for Terrans in a tournament besides GSL in an incredibly long time.
This isn't good, this is insane honestly.
Are you on mobile or do you just reject the existence of the quote button?
Quoting everything makes the posts unnecessarily large.
On November 25 2018 06:25 ubikz wrote: Which would be Zest's place in sc2 history? Maybe the best toss despite his slumps?
I think if Zest didn't take 2017 off he'd be clearly the greatest Protoss in SC2 history for sure. As it is I think it's kinda close because of Stats' insane consistency throughout the last few years.
I heard that PL ended in 2016 because a player canonrushed in finals, would the greatest Protoss in SC2 history Canon RUsh in the last PL finals ?
I think blaming the end of Proleague on Zest's cannon rush is a bit harsh. But if there's no WCS next year I'll just blame sOs' cannon rush against Serral now
If anything you should blame him for robbing us of Maru vs Serral and then not following it up with the $0$ meme and winning the damn thing
On November 25 2018 06:25 ubikz wrote: Which would be Zest's place in sc2 history? Maybe the best toss despite his slumps?
I think if Zest didn't take 2017 off he'd be clearly the greatest Protoss in SC2 history for sure. As it is I think it's kinda close because of Stats' insane consistency throughout the last few years.
I heard that PL ended in 2016 because a player canonrushed in finals, would the greatest Protoss in SC2 history Canon RUsh in the last PL finals ?
I think blaming the end of Proleague on Zest's cannon rush is a bit harsh. But if there's no WCS next year I'll just blame sOs' cannon rush against Serral now
On November 25 2018 06:25 ubikz wrote: Which would be Zest's place in sc2 history? Maybe the best toss despite his slumps?
I think if Zest didn't take 2017 off he'd be clearly the greatest Protoss in SC2 history for sure. As it is I think it's kinda close because of Stats' insane consistency throughout the last few years.
I heard that PL ended in 2016 because a player canonrushed in finals, would the greatest Protoss in SC2 history Canon RUsh in the last PL finals ?
I think blaming the end of Proleague on Zest's cannon rush is a bit harsh. But if there's no WCS next year I'll just blame sOs' cannon rush against Serral now
If anything you should blame him for robbing us of Maru vs Serral and then not following it up with the $0$ meme and winning the damn thing
Well I don't like either Maru or sOs so I actually laughed about that whole situation.
On November 25 2018 06:42 HolydaKing wrote: I'm kinda cheeing for Cure, he's been "dead" resultwise for a lot of time while still being on JAGW, similar to Creator. Good showing for that.
Both of them have been playing somewhat better over the last few months.
On November 25 2018 06:42 HolydaKing wrote: I'm kinda cheeing for Cure, he's been "dead" resultwise for a lot of time while still being on JAGW, similar to Creator. Good showing for that.
On November 25 2018 06:42 HolydaKing wrote: I'm kinda cheeing for Cure, he's been "dead" resultwise for a lot of time while still being on JAGW, similar to Creator. Good showing for that.
It was totally done on purpose, so that Maru won the 3 GSL.
On November 25 2018 06:42 HolydaKing wrote: I'm kinda cheeing for Cure, he's been "dead" resultwise for a lot of time while still being on JAGW, similar to Creator. Good showing for that.
now creator is the only bad one.. :/
Hey at least Creator has beaten TY in this expansion, he can't be THAT bad.
On November 25 2018 06:46 Nakajin wrote: I wonder if Serral will be able to overcome this disadvantage of hurting his brain socializing in time for his series tomorrow.
Jk
Socializing will be what drives him over the edge from almost losing to TaeJa to getting 3-0'd by uThermal.
On November 25 2018 06:46 Nakajin wrote: I wonder if Serral will be able to overcome this disadvantage of hurting his brain socializing in time for his series tomorrow.
Jk
But in reality it will probably be hard to recover for Joona, since he casted 4 games on Emil's stream earlier also.
This is the worst casting I have ever seen. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just posting this because I actually haven't heard anything worse. I rather watch a stream in a foreign language.
On November 25 2018 07:02 Rodya wrote: This is the worst casting I have ever seen. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just posting this because I actually haven't heard anything worse. I rather watch a stream in a foreign language.
On November 25 2018 07:02 Rodya wrote: This is the worst casting I have ever seen. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just posting this because I actually haven't heard anything worse. I rather watch a stream in a foreign language.
On November 25 2018 07:02 Rodya wrote: This is the worst casting I have ever seen. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just posting this because I actually haven't heard anything worse. I rather watch a stream in a foreign language.
On November 25 2018 06:55 DBooN wrote: Incontrol reliably shuts down every attempt at talking about the game.
I mean he's a real life bully who was in the right place at the right time to cast 8 years ago. He hates Taeja and loves Serral - he is doing this on purpose to hurt the feelings of Taeja fans, I'm sure of it.
On November 25 2018 07:02 Rodya wrote: This is the worst casting I have ever seen. I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just posting this because I actually haven't heard anything worse. I rather watch a stream in a foreign language.
On November 25 2018 06:55 DBooN wrote: Incontrol reliably shuts down every attempt at talking about the game.
I mean he's a real life bully who was in the right place at the right time to cast 8 years ago. He hates Taeja and loves Serral - he is doing this on purpose to hurt the feelings of Taeja fans, I'm sure of it.
Lol you should be on the HSC couch, you would be pretty funny
After watching BlizzCon dominated by a foreigner you almost forgot that Koreans are still far superior and that even slumping pros can beat top foreigners
Nodoby forgot Koreans are still ahead. Zest recently won at least one online tournament and he has played well at HSC after a very weak start. Not in his prime, but wouldn't say he's slumping.
On November 25 2018 09:05 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: So how did Taeja look? Will he take all dreamhacks in 2019?
Making great progress. Same old standard and defensive Taeja who exclusively goes bio. He was a bit overly passive even compared to how he used to play though, perhaps because he isn't fully comfortable yet with the general flow of the game.
He could've beat Serral 3-1 had he reacted better to the mutalisks and split his army better in game 4. 4/5 of the games were very competitive and even the 1st one wasn't a bop but it was clearly Serral's game to lose despite how drawn out it was.
He needs a lot more work in TvP and TvT. Should make code S np next month but he probably won't be winning anything big or going deep for 3-4 months assuming he keeps up his training regimen.
On November 25 2018 10:08 Poopi wrote: Wtf, how did Zest beat Showtime and Elazer?
After watching BlizzCon dominated by a foreigner you almost forgot that Koreans are still far superior and that even slumping pros can beat top foreigners
Grats Zest
Only Korean elitists are whining about foreigners winning. Most normal people know that Koreans dominate the scene, which is why Serral is so impressive! It's very difficult forget that one country wins almost all tournaments unless you're of the opinion that, that one country should win everything by default which a lot of People here on TL seem to believe.
I'm happy to see terrans doing well again by the way. Feels like only TY and Maru could accomplish anything for many months due.
On November 25 2018 10:08 Poopi wrote: Wtf, how did Zest beat Showtime and Elazer?
After watching BlizzCon dominated by a foreigner you almost forgot that Koreans are still far superior and that even slumping pros can beat top foreigners
Grats Zest
Only Korean elitists are whining about foreigners winning. Most normal people know that Koreans dominate the scene, which is why Serral is so impressive! It's very difficult forget that one country wins almost all tournaments unless you're of the opinion that, that one country should win everything by default which a lot of People here on TL seem to believe.
I'm happy to see terrans doing well again by the way. Feels like only TY and Maru could accomplish anything for many months due.
Show me where those Korean elitists touched you on this doll.
Anyway, most of the "Korean elitists" are not saying that. They say different things..
On November 25 2018 10:08 Poopi wrote: Wtf, how did Zest beat Showtime and Elazer?
After watching BlizzCon dominated by a foreigner you almost forgot that Koreans are still far superior and that even slumping pros can beat top foreigners
Grats Zest
Only Korean elitists are whining about foreigners winning. Most normal people know that Koreans dominate the scene, which is why Serral is so impressive! It's very difficult forget that one country wins almost all tournaments unless you're of the opinion that, that one country should win everything by default which a lot of People here on TL seem to believe.
I'm happy to see terrans doing well again by the way. Feels like only TY and Maru could accomplish anything for many months due.
Show me where those Korean elitists touched you on this doll.
Anyway, most of the "Korean elitists" are not saying that. They say different things..
On November 25 2018 10:08 Poopi wrote: Wtf, how did Zest beat Showtime and Elazer?
After watching BlizzCon dominated by a foreigner you almost forgot that Koreans are still far superior and that even slumping pros can beat top foreigners
Grats Zest
Only Korean elitists are whining about foreigners winning. Most normal people know that Koreans dominate the scene, which is why Serral is so impressive! It's very difficult forget that one country wins almost all tournaments unless you're of the opinion that, that one country should win everything by default which a lot of People here on TL seem to believe.
I'm happy to see terrans doing well again by the way. Feels like only TY and Maru could accomplish anything for many months due.
Show me where those Korean elitists touched you on this doll.
Anyway, most of the "Korean elitists" are not saying that. They say different things..
What do they say then? I'm not gonna go chasing quotes right now because it's a hazzle on mobile but I might later!
zest should be very favored against any foreigner not named Serral, I recently watched him go above 7k MMR on korea playing as flawless sc2 as a human can play, if his tournament play is near that level, of course the likes of showtime and elazer stand no chance at all.
EPT
HomeStory Cup/18
Take TV | 
OGaming SC2 | 
German Stream
RotterdaM, 
DeMusliM, 
Lowko, ![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4797.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/663.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4792.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/3226.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4567.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1849.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6252.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/3250.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6170.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/3261.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/977.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/618.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2013.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6277.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2031.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4919.jpg)
Not wanting to argue but if you fail to see that Serral vs Taeja could have been a bop based on his previous games I am not sure what I can tell you.
