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Rofl Charoisaur, you amaze me every time!
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France12785 Posts
On November 07 2018 03:42 starkiller123 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 02:55 Charoisaur wrote:On November 06 2018 19:57 Poopi wrote:On November 06 2018 16:00 TheDougler wrote:On November 05 2018 09:13 Poopi wrote:On November 05 2018 07:04 AzAlexZ wrote:On November 04 2018 21:18 Poopi wrote:On November 04 2018 21:12 Zeon0 wrote:
I think its just funny, how people want to discredit Serral cause he didnt face Maru. Maru won 3 GSL without facing the arguably best player in the world and nobody was like "but he didnt face Serral". Wasn't one of these GSL at the time Maru trashed Serral 3-0 while barely beating Dark 4-3? Don't act like Serral was the best zerg in the world for the whole year, he peaked at this level only relatively recently that was WESG...... Serral hasn't participated in any GSLs this year + Show Spoiler +please do some fuking research before saying stupid things. Also Rogue and Dark lost 3-1 and 3-0 to Serral Respectively? LOL Reynor, Lambo and Scarlett did better in Montreal against Serral than they did. Also Serral hasn't lost a offline match since April 22nd, the same can't be said about Maru. His only recent loss is against Neeb in an online tourney, and Neeb is arguably the best PvZ player out there, and the argument could be made that he held back due to having Zest and sOs in his Ro16 group. All you Serral haters need to shut the fuk up, like right now. God, the fuking hypocrisy is real, most of you would fuking hype up Taeja as the best player in the world in 2013 and 2014, and how many GSLs has he participated in? 0. The only thing he won was a few dreamhacks and IEM's HSC's, not really that different from what Serral has done this year, but Serral won Blizzcon and GSL vs The world. Hell Taeja couldn't even win any WCS America's, and then he 3-0s Rain in the 2013 WCS S2 finals and you all start calling him the best vP in the world. So according to your arguments then, I can absolutely call Serral the best player in the world now that he has won against the top koreans in GSL vs the world and Blizzcon and repeatedly won in his own region. So don't give me this bullshit on 'you can only be the best player in the world if you participate in the GSL', IN THAT CASE TAEJA ISN'T EITHER. But you would call Taeja the best player of all time, just because he is a korean? Let me point it out that we all know that 2013 was not Taeja's year (it was split between sOs, Dear and INnoVation) and 2014 was Zest's (and maybe Life's) year. Serral proved himself against the best and you still find reasons to discredit his win? Unless you admit right now that Taeja is not the best player when he played, you have no right to do that to Serral. Why bm me in the spoiler? I thought it was pretty clear, Maru trashed him at WESG which happened probably around GSL S1 so acting like players at GSL S1/2/3 avoided him is stupid because he was actually losing during S1 times (and maybe S2?) It's not like Serral was even bad then though. He beat Classic 3-1 to get 3rd at WESG. So he placed two places behind Maru at WESG, he tied Maru for 3rd/4th at IEM Katowice, he placed 2 places higher than Maru at GSL vs the World, and he placed 5-7 places higher at BlizzCon. So, I dunno if we can point to ONE tournament where he got "trashed" (IE: placed 3rd out of 64...) and declare that that result disqualifies him. Just my two cents. Losing 0-3 means being trashed by an opponent, placing badly means underperforming at an event. Just as Maru got trashed by sOs at BlizzCon, Serral got trashed by Maru (and Classic earlier before) at the beginning of the year so it would be utterly stupid to think Serral would have won GSL S1 (and a bit delusional for S2/S3 but S3 was a bit more probable) Serral lost to Maru at WESG because Ravens were OP. When they played on a proper patch Serral always won easily (Katowice qualifier and GSL vs the world). The impressive thing is that he does it with the weakest race (no GSL win in LotV) while Maru plays the strongest race (5 GSLs in a row won by a terran) and still doesn't have anywhere the results of Serral. that Katowice qualifier game is completely meaningless and i still can't believe people bring it up to try to prove some point
Charoisaur is pro-KR by a large margin.
I guess he's still hurt by BlizzCon results so he keep trolling with this narrative even days after the event.
I feel the pain too 
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On November 07 2018 07:19 Poopi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 07 2018 03:42 starkiller123 wrote:On November 07 2018 02:55 Charoisaur wrote:On November 06 2018 19:57 Poopi wrote:On November 06 2018 16:00 TheDougler wrote:On November 05 2018 09:13 Poopi wrote:On November 05 2018 07:04 AzAlexZ wrote:On November 04 2018 21:18 Poopi wrote:On November 04 2018 21:12 Zeon0 wrote:
I think its just funny, how people want to discredit Serral cause he didnt face Maru. Maru won 3 GSL without facing the arguably best player in the world and nobody was like "but he didnt face Serral". Wasn't one of these GSL at the time Maru trashed Serral 3-0 while barely beating Dark 4-3? Don't act like Serral was the best zerg in the world for the whole year, he peaked at this level only relatively recently that was WESG...... Serral hasn't participated in any GSLs this year + Show Spoiler +please do some fuking research before saying stupid things. Also Rogue and Dark lost 3-1 and 3-0 to Serral Respectively? LOL Reynor, Lambo and Scarlett did better in Montreal against Serral than they did. Also Serral hasn't lost a offline match since April 22nd, the same can't be said about Maru. His only recent loss is against Neeb in an online tourney, and Neeb is arguably the best PvZ player out there, and the argument could be made that he held back due to having Zest and sOs in his Ro16 group. All you Serral haters need to shut the fuk up, like right now. God, the fuking hypocrisy is real, most of you would fuking hype up Taeja as the best player in the world in 2013 and 2014, and how many GSLs has he participated in? 0. The only thing he won was a few dreamhacks and IEM's HSC's, not really that different from what Serral has done this year, but Serral won Blizzcon and GSL vs The world. Hell Taeja couldn't even win any WCS America's, and then he 3-0s Rain in the 2013 WCS S2 finals and you all start calling him the best vP in the world. So according to your arguments then, I can absolutely call Serral the best player in the world now that he has won against the top koreans in GSL vs the world and Blizzcon and repeatedly won in his own region. So don't give me this bullshit on 'you can only be the best player in the world if you participate in the GSL', IN THAT CASE TAEJA ISN'T EITHER. But you would call Taeja the best player of all time, just because he is a korean? Let me point it out that we all know that 2013 was not Taeja's year (it was split between sOs, Dear and INnoVation) and 2014 was Zest's (and maybe Life's) year. Serral proved himself against the best and you still find reasons to discredit his win? Unless you admit right now that Taeja is not the best player when he played, you have no right to do that to Serral. Why bm me in the spoiler? I thought it was pretty clear, Maru trashed him at WESG which happened probably around GSL S1 so acting like players at GSL S1/2/3 avoided him is stupid because he was actually losing during S1 times (and maybe S2?) It's not like Serral was even bad then though. He beat Classic 3-1 to get 3rd at WESG. So he placed two places behind Maru at WESG, he tied Maru for 3rd/4th at IEM Katowice, he placed 2 places higher than Maru at GSL vs the World, and he placed 5-7 places higher at BlizzCon. So, I dunno if we can point to ONE tournament where he got "trashed" (IE: placed 3rd out of 64...) and declare that that result disqualifies him. Just my two cents. Losing 0-3 means being trashed by an opponent, placing badly means underperforming at an event. Just as Maru got trashed by sOs at BlizzCon, Serral got trashed by Maru (and Classic earlier before) at the beginning of the year so it would be utterly stupid to think Serral would have won GSL S1 (and a bit delusional for S2/S3 but S3 was a bit more probable) Serral lost to Maru at WESG because Ravens were OP. When they played on a proper patch Serral always won easily (Katowice qualifier and GSL vs the world). The impressive thing is that he does it with the weakest race (no GSL win in LotV) while Maru plays the strongest race (5 GSLs in a row won by a terran) and still doesn't have anywhere the results of Serral. that Katowice qualifier game is completely meaningless and i still can't believe people bring it up to try to prove some point Charoisaur is pro-KR by a large margin. I guess he's still hurt by BlizzCon results so he keep trolling with this narrative even days after the event. I feel the pain too
oh i definitely feel the pain too
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Maru didn't get trashed. he got arrogant and stubborn
3 GSLs -- that does not exclude players from certain regions -- in a row means Maru is the best in 2018
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I think Maru’s 3 GSL’s in a row give him best player of the year, because it’s unprecdented, although I agree that it’s not as prestigious as it would’ve been a few years ago. The lower half of the GSL is weak and most WCS players of decent standard could qualify.
Serral’s form over the last few months definitely make him the best player in the world right now though.
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If any other player had won GSL vs The World and blizzcon then Maru would 100% get player of the year.
In fact I don't think TL have ever actually given player of the year to who won blizzcon. But given they usually divide foreigner and korean POTY, it's pretty obvious who they are going to.
The real crime is that Maru vs Dark from GSL season 1 probably isn't gonna be match/game of the year. It will go to Stats vs Serral or something.
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It's not like Serral came out of nowhere winning Blizzcon and that the notably foreigner biased(???) Team liquid crew has given him player of the year just because he is non korean.
Serral actually dominated the Circuit throughout this whole patch beating everyone who got to face offline, Koreans included, since May; then, he won Blizzcon with the best run ever(14-3).
Don't doubt that the same feats achieved by a finnish born korean would have been rewarded exactly the same way.
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On November 09 2018 08:31 Xain0n wrote:
It's not like Serral came out of nowhere winning Blizzcon and that the notably foreigner biased(???) Team liquid crew has given him player of the year just because he is non korean.
Serral actually dominated the Circuit throughout this whole patch beating everyone who got to face offline, Koreans included, since May; then, he won Blizzcon with the best run ever(14-3).
Don't doubt that the same feats achieved by a finnish born korean would have been rewarded exactly the same way.
The question isn't about a Finnish born Korean. The question is if a Korean born in Korea would be called player of the year for Serral's achievements vs Maru and the answer is no.
It's impossible to compare directly because obviously a Korean born in Korea can't be in WCS. Let say Stats won both super tournaments, GSL vs the World, Blizzcon, and IEM Katowice would he be player of the year? The answer would obviously be no. Maru would still win player of the year over that record. Serral's record is far less impressive than that hypothetical Stats year and yet he will most likely be considered player of the year because he's not Korean and he didn't play in GSL. He's kind of being rewarded by the community for choosing not to play in the hardest event.
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A korean born in Korea just couldn't have played in WCS, that's the point.
FAR less impressive? This hypothetical Stats year wouldn't showcase six months of offline invincibility and a 5 premier tournament streak; Serral didn't lose to Maru in GSL, he just wasn't in Korea, wheras Stats would have NOT won the GSL Maru did.
Serral can go to Korea now, it would have made no sense to go there at the start of June and it would have been doing so earlier when he wasn't a fully developed world class player.
You are implying that you must win a Code S to have the best Sc2 feats in a year, no matter what? That's some extreme GSL bias that probably would have been justified if we were still in 2014.
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A korean born in korea can play WCS if he gets a proper VISA. Let's say TRUE won all WCS seasons, GSL vs the world and Blizzcon. And now tell me with a straight face that he would be considered player of the year over Maru.
He wouldn't, we both know it. Serral just gets the foreigner hype bonus.
On November 09 2018 10:07 Xain0n wrote:
You are implying that you must win a Code S to have the best Sc2 feats in a year, no matter what? That's some extreme GSL bias that probably would have been justified if we were still in 2014.
Yeah you should have results in the major sc2 tournament if you want to have the best feats in the year...
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If True won everything Serral did he would have indeed had a more successful year than Maru.
They wouldn't have said that tho, I agree, but it would have been tied to the disproportionate importance attributed to Code S, mandatory for a korean to win.
Blizzcon is more prestigious than Code S; moreover, you can't treat Serral like he lost the tournaments he didn't enter.
If everyone was free, willing and able to join any tournament, Maru wouldn't have won his three GSL and Serral wouldn't have won his four WCS this year.
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On November 09 2018 10:07 Xain0n wrote:
A korean born in Korea just couldn't have played in WCS, that's the point.
FAR less impressive? This hypothetical Stats year wouldn't showcase six months of offline invincibility and a 5 premier tournament streak; Serral didn't lose to Maru in GSL, he just wasn't in Korea, wheras Stats would have NOT won the GSL Maru did.
Serral can go to Korea now, it would have made no sense to go there at the start of June and it would have been doing so earlier when he wasn't a fully developed world class player.
You are implying that you must win a Code S to have the best Sc2 feats in a year, no matter what? That's some extreme GSL bias that probably would have been justified if we were still in 2014.
That list of tournament victories would have been better than Serral's list of tournament victories though. The fact that he would have lost in 3 seasons of GSL doesn't really matter when considering a player of the year. More prestigious tournament wins with a lower win-rate is more impressive than only playing in a few prestigious tournaments and having a higher win-rate. The amount of series Serral played against top 10 players in the world this year is so tiny. It's barely even double digits.
Are you admitting in that third paragraph that Serral wasn't even a worldclass player until June? I agree but I don't get how you can admit that and at the same time call Serral player of the year.
Not in a normal year where one player doesn't win all 3. If Maru had only won a single GSL or even two then obviously Serral would have had a better year but winning the hardest tournament 3 times in a row gives the year to Maru.
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On November 09 2018 12:09 Charoisaur wrote:A korean born in korea can play WCS if he gets a proper VISA. Let's say TRUE won all WCS seasons, GSL vs the world and Blizzcon. And now tell me with a straight face that he would be considered player of the year over Maru. He wouldn't, we both know it. Serral just gets the foreigner hype bonus. Show nested quote +On November 09 2018 10:07 Xain0n wrote:
You are implying that you must win a Code S to have the best Sc2 feats in a year, no matter what? That's some extreme GSL bias that probably would have been justified if we were still in 2014. Yeah you should have results in the major sc2 tournament if you want to have the best feats in the year...
https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/442976-2013-in-review-teamliquid-awards#player_kr
I guess you also thought 2013 was not the year of Taeja, because he didn't win a GSL.
Edit of edit: still can't find you in 2013, but I found this gem in 2014!
On February 01 2015 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. who would you suggest instead of taeja? INnoVation did nothing except his gsl win, maru was incredible the first half of the year but didn't win a tournament, bomber was strong but if you say taeja can only win vs foreigners (and occasionaly vs 1-2 koreans) you have to say the same about bomber. TaeJa has all arguments on his side. He won the most tournaments. he has beaten every top player of the year (zest, life, inno, soo, solar etc.). was the only terran who won tournaments during the blink era. I have no idea where all the anti-taeja bias comes from when he consistently beats the best players korea has to offer and is winning tournaments left and right. There was no terran this year (except maybe maru in the first half of the year) who even came close to taeja.
But... Innovation won a GSL. Doesn't that mean he was better than Taeja?
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For "world class" i mean "absolute top tier". It's a fact Serral was not winning championships agains Koreans at the start of this year.
Why do i give him 2018? He was invincible in the last patch whereas Maru wasn't in the previous one; if there was a WCS global ladder Serral would have overtaken Maru in points, winning BlizzCon.
Maru disappointed us completely at Super Tournament 2 and Blizzcon(not mentioning GSL vs the world, but that run was better); had he not played them for some reasons, his year would have been more impressive, not less.
He'd have avoided his losses against sOs and his embarassing showing in the most important tournament in the year.
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In pretty much every sport I know it counts who is on top at the END of a season. Not the beginning, not the middle.
If you see Blizzcon at somewhat of a playoff thing between two conferences (USA style) or as a champions league (EU Style). The result is the same: Serral
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That's true but sometimes you come out on top at the end of a season even if you are not the best in that moment, having accumulated a huge advantage before; of course, that doesn't happen when there are elimination brackets.
If you win BlizzCon it doesn't mean you have had the best year:if Lambo did, we wouldn't be here discussing.
It is the case for Serral because of his previous accomplishments.
I'd like to point out that HSC could be his seventh premier tournament win of the year, nobody has ever done better in Sc2!
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hsc is not a premier tournament, it will be fun tho
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I apologize. It should still be the highest amount of non-minor tournament in one year, if i remember correctly.
Edit:Serral(2018) is tied with MVP(2011) at six premier tournament in a single year, but he already is the most accomplished in a single year if we take Major tournaments in consideration. He has already won three and HSC would be his fourth for a total of TEN non-minor in a year.
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On November 09 2018 19:50 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On November 09 2018 12:09 Charoisaur wrote:A korean born in korea can play WCS if he gets a proper VISA. Let's say TRUE won all WCS seasons, GSL vs the world and Blizzcon. And now tell me with a straight face that he would be considered player of the year over Maru. He wouldn't, we both know it. Serral just gets the foreigner hype bonus. On November 09 2018 10:07 Xain0n wrote:
You are implying that you must win a Code S to have the best Sc2 feats in a year, no matter what? That's some extreme GSL bias that probably would have been justified if we were still in 2014. Yeah you should have results in the major sc2 tournament if you want to have the best feats in the year... https://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/442976-2013-in-review-teamliquid-awards#player_krI guess you also thought 2013 was not the year of Taeja, because he didn't win a GSL. Edit of edit: still can't find you in 2013, but I found this gem in 2014! Show nested quote +On February 01 2015 03:02 Charoisaur wrote:On February 01 2015 02:43 Yonnua wrote:On February 01 2015 02:24 tjtombo wrote:On February 01 2015 02:19 Yonnua wrote:
Every year Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up and teamliquid writers (and many other people) just start going mental and calling him the best player ever. Then when he gets smashed by top tier players at other events they completely ignore it and act as if it never happened. It's crazy.
Players like Maru, Innovation and Bomber have performed on much bigger stages and with greater consistency against the top tier players, but don't get anywhere near as much credit. :/ Yeah like when he edged out Zest 3-0, or edged out soO 3-1, or edged out innovation 3-1. Or maybe you are refering to him getting "smashed" by losing 3-2 to Life twice recently (and lets be real, almost everyone is losing to life right now especially in ZvT) in two of the best series of the year. I know what you mean when you say people overlook his losses, but the way you phrase it passes off his multiple tournament wins as "Taeja beats a bunch of lower tier players at random tournaments then edges it over the one or two top tier players that turn up". Aren't you doing the same thing you claim TL writers are doing? Your view comes off just as biased How is this not exactly what I said? He beats one or two top tier players per event. He barely edges it over people to win events i.e. 4-3 vs Solar & losing to Jim at Shenzhen, 3-2 vs Jaedong & losing to Scarlett/MMA at Homestory Cup, not facing any top tier players at Dreamhack Summer, etc. Then at other tournaments he drops games to Leenock (Dreamhack Winter/Taiwan Open), Flash (3-0 at Homestory Cup), Hyun (WCS), Pigbaby (two different WCS events), Dear/Stardust (ASUS ROG), Major/Hyun (WCS). I'm not claiming he's a bad playing, but saying that he's obviously the best terran of 2014 is crazy while completely ignoring that he lost to random players in loads of the events he played in (even one or two that he won). Acting like he was always undefeatable when he won is ridiculous. Claiming I'm doing the same as the writers is silly because I'm not ignoring data, I'm just using all of the data rather than selecting the little amount that proves that the player I like is the best. I'm also not saying anyone is or isn't the best, I'm saying that calling it so clear cut when other players have had much better performances throughout the year is silly and not backed by data. who would you suggest instead of taeja? INnoVation did nothing except his gsl win, maru was incredible the first half of the year but didn't win a tournament, bomber was strong but if you say taeja can only win vs foreigners (and occasionaly vs 1-2 koreans) you have to say the same about bomber. TaeJa has all arguments on his side. He won the most tournaments. he has beaten every top player of the year (zest, life, inno, soo, solar etc.). was the only terran who won tournaments during the blink era. I have no idea where all the anti-taeja bias comes from when he consistently beats the best players korea has to offer and is winning tournaments left and right. There was no terran this year (except maybe maru in the first half of the year) who even came close to taeja. But... Innovation won a GSL. Doesn't that mean he was better than Taeja?
Yes it means it. Back then I was a newb who didn't know the scene very well.
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On November 09 2018 21:34 Harris1st wrote:
In pretty much every sport I know it counts who is on top at the END of a season. Not the beginning, not the middle.
If you see Blizzcon at somewhat of a playoff thing between two conferences (USA style) or as a champions league (EU Style). The result is the same: Serral
nobody considered Chelsea the strongest team in the world when they won the champions league. They just clutched it out when it counted like Serral.
also the comparison isn't very good to begin with because basketball/football don't have a GSL-equivalent.
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EPT
