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On September 10 2017 18:06 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 18:01 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 15:55 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
A 2013 finals rematch? Thank you GSL! Shame that I missed this, looks like it was epic. I am so psyched!
Also Inno is making the finals every year for four years (and chance at 3 wins in three years) is insane. What a legend Not only making to finals but Bogus had the title as well. Here are the fun parts of this coming GSL final. 1. The most premier finals appearance (9) among active Protoss players VS. the most premier finals appearance (10) among active Terran players. 2. Both have carried their race since 2013 and kept the highest offline winrates (all match-ups over 60%, both games and matches) against Korean among their race till now. 3. Both have offline title(s) every year since 2013 (if sOs wins something this year). 4. Two time Blizzcon champion VS. two time GSL champion. You cannot ask a better final than this one for hype. sOs didn't carry shit in 2014, 2016 and 2017... much like Inno barely carried himself last year. There are many reasons to be hyped about this GSL final but that was just a lie.
Strictly speaking, sOs didn't carry his race in 2016 and 2017 (but it's not over yet), Bogus didn't carry his race in 2016, but this has nothing to do with their offline winrates career wise, and by "carry", I'm only counting their offline winrates and titles, not what they "looked like" during a game.
After more than 5 years, Bogus still ranked first and sOs ranked second among all active players, only these two guys have a overall winrates above 60% for all MUs. I'm assuming I didn't make up those data, right? Or you're saying that Aligulac's data "was just a lie"?
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On September 10 2017 18:32 Alarak89 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 18:06 Elentos wrote:On September 10 2017 18:01 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 15:55 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
A 2013 finals rematch? Thank you GSL! Shame that I missed this, looks like it was epic. I am so psyched!
Also Inno is making the finals every year for four years (and chance at 3 wins in three years) is insane. What a legend Not only making to finals but Bogus had the title as well. Here are the fun parts of this coming GSL final. 1. The most premier finals appearance (9) among active Protoss players VS. the most premier finals appearance (10) among active Terran players. 2. Both have carried their race since 2013 and kept the highest offline winrates (all match-ups over 60%, both games and matches) against Korean among their race till now. 3. Both have offline title(s) every year since 2013 (if sOs wins something this year). 4. Two time Blizzcon champion VS. two time GSL champion. You cannot ask a better final than this one for hype. sOs didn't carry shit in 2014, 2016 and 2017... much like Inno barely carried himself last year. There are many reasons to be hyped about this GSL final but that was just a lie. Strictly speaking, sOs didn't carry his race in 2016 and 2017 (but it's not over yet), Bogus didn't carry his race in 2016, but this has nothing to do with their offline winrates career wise, and by "carry", I'm only counting their offline winrates and titles, not what they "looked like" during a game. After more than 5 years, Bogus still ranked first and sOs ranked second among all active players, only these two guys have a overall winrates above 60% for all MUs. I'm assuming I didn't make up those data, right? Or you're saying that Aligulac's data "was just a lie"?
According to INnoVation, stats and records are BS, he is at 10% winrate TvZ
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On September 11 2017 01:55 Mun_Su wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 18:32 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 18:06 Elentos wrote:On September 10 2017 18:01 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 15:55 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
A 2013 finals rematch? Thank you GSL! Shame that I missed this, looks like it was epic. I am so psyched!
Also Inno is making the finals every year for four years (and chance at 3 wins in three years) is insane. What a legend Not only making to finals but Bogus had the title as well. Here are the fun parts of this coming GSL final. 1. The most premier finals appearance (9) among active Protoss players VS. the most premier finals appearance (10) among active Terran players. 2. Both have carried their race since 2013 and kept the highest offline winrates (all match-ups over 60%, both games and matches) against Korean among their race till now. 3. Both have offline title(s) every year since 2013 (if sOs wins something this year). 4. Two time Blizzcon champion VS. two time GSL champion. You cannot ask a better final than this one for hype. sOs didn't carry shit in 2014, 2016 and 2017... much like Inno barely carried himself last year. There are many reasons to be hyped about this GSL final but that was just a lie. Strictly speaking, sOs didn't carry his race in 2016 and 2017 (but it's not over yet), Bogus didn't carry his race in 2016, but this has nothing to do with their offline winrates career wise, and by "carry", I'm only counting their offline winrates and titles, not what they "looked like" during a game. After more than 5 years, Bogus still ranked first and sOs ranked second among all active players, only these two guys have a overall winrates above 60% for all MUs. I'm assuming I didn't make up those data, right? Or you're saying that Aligulac's data "was just a lie"? According to INnoVation, stats and records are BS, he is at 10% winrate TvZ
If he has a 10% winrate in his strongest MU, I want to know what his TvP winrate is.
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On September 11 2017 03:17 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 01:55 Mun_Su wrote:On September 10 2017 18:32 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 18:06 Elentos wrote:On September 10 2017 18:01 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 15:55 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
A 2013 finals rematch? Thank you GSL! Shame that I missed this, looks like it was epic. I am so psyched!
Also Inno is making the finals every year for four years (and chance at 3 wins in three years) is insane. What a legend Not only making to finals but Bogus had the title as well. Here are the fun parts of this coming GSL final. 1. The most premier finals appearance (9) among active Protoss players VS. the most premier finals appearance (10) among active Terran players. 2. Both have carried their race since 2013 and kept the highest offline winrates (all match-ups over 60%, both games and matches) against Korean among their race till now. 3. Both have offline title(s) every year since 2013 (if sOs wins something this year). 4. Two time Blizzcon champion VS. two time GSL champion. You cannot ask a better final than this one for hype. sOs didn't carry shit in 2014, 2016 and 2017... much like Inno barely carried himself last year. There are many reasons to be hyped about this GSL final but that was just a lie. Strictly speaking, sOs didn't carry his race in 2016 and 2017 (but it's not over yet), Bogus didn't carry his race in 2016, but this has nothing to do with their offline winrates career wise, and by "carry", I'm only counting their offline winrates and titles, not what they "looked like" during a game. After more than 5 years, Bogus still ranked first and sOs ranked second among all active players, only these two guys have a overall winrates above 60% for all MUs. I'm assuming I didn't make up those data, right? Or you're saying that Aligulac's data "was just a lie"? According to INnoVation, stats and records are BS, he is at 10% winrate TvZ If he has a 10% winrate in his strongest MU, I want to know what his TvP winrate is.
Inno: 'I win about 9 out of 10 TvPs, I really feel sorry for Protoss players on ladder'
Interviewer: 'But your winrate is only 56%!'
Inno: 'That's only a record.'
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On September 11 2017 01:55 Mun_Su wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2017 18:32 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 18:06 Elentos wrote:On September 10 2017 18:01 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 15:55 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
A 2013 finals rematch? Thank you GSL! Shame that I missed this, looks like it was epic. I am so psyched!
Also Inno is making the finals every year for four years (and chance at 3 wins in three years) is insane. What a legend Not only making to finals but Bogus had the title as well. Here are the fun parts of this coming GSL final. 1. The most premier finals appearance (9) among active Protoss players VS. the most premier finals appearance (10) among active Terran players. 2. Both have carried their race since 2013 and kept the highest offline winrates (all match-ups over 60%, both games and matches) against Korean among their race till now. 3. Both have offline title(s) every year since 2013 (if sOs wins something this year). 4. Two time Blizzcon champion VS. two time GSL champion. You cannot ask a better final than this one for hype. sOs didn't carry shit in 2014, 2016 and 2017... much like Inno barely carried himself last year. There are many reasons to be hyped about this GSL final but that was just a lie. Strictly speaking, sOs didn't carry his race in 2016 and 2017 (but it's not over yet), Bogus didn't carry his race in 2016, but this has nothing to do with their offline winrates career wise, and by "carry", I'm only counting their offline winrates and titles, not what they "looked like" during a game. After more than 5 years, Bogus still ranked first and sOs ranked second among all active players, only these two guys have a overall winrates above 60% for all MUs. I'm assuming I didn't make up those data, right? Or you're saying that Aligulac's data "was just a lie"? According to INnoVation, stats and records are BS, he is at 10% winrate TvZ
And apparently Aligulac tell us Bogus is a liar due to his offline TvZ results, he can say whatever he wants, just like someone's game is always"look better" than the others.
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On September 11 2017 03:21 Elentos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 03:17 pvsnp wrote:On September 11 2017 01:55 Mun_Su wrote:On September 10 2017 18:32 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 18:06 Elentos wrote:On September 10 2017 18:01 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 15:55 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
A 2013 finals rematch? Thank you GSL! Shame that I missed this, looks like it was epic. I am so psyched!
Also Inno is making the finals every year for four years (and chance at 3 wins in three years) is insane. What a legend Not only making to finals but Bogus had the title as well. Here are the fun parts of this coming GSL final. 1. The most premier finals appearance (9) among active Protoss players VS. the most premier finals appearance (10) among active Terran players. 2. Both have carried their race since 2013 and kept the highest offline winrates (all match-ups over 60%, both games and matches) against Korean among their race till now. 3. Both have offline title(s) every year since 2013 (if sOs wins something this year). 4. Two time Blizzcon champion VS. two time GSL champion. You cannot ask a better final than this one for hype. sOs didn't carry shit in 2014, 2016 and 2017... much like Inno barely carried himself last year. There are many reasons to be hyped about this GSL final but that was just a lie. Strictly speaking, sOs didn't carry his race in 2016 and 2017 (but it's not over yet), Bogus didn't carry his race in 2016, but this has nothing to do with their offline winrates career wise, and by "carry", I'm only counting their offline winrates and titles, not what they "looked like" during a game. After more than 5 years, Bogus still ranked first and sOs ranked second among all active players, only these two guys have a overall winrates above 60% for all MUs. I'm assuming I didn't make up those data, right? Or you're saying that Aligulac's data "was just a lie"? According to INnoVation, stats and records are BS, he is at 10% winrate TvZ If he has a 10% winrate in his strongest MU, I want to know what his TvP winrate is. Inno: 'I win about 9 out of 10 TvPs, I really feel sorry for Protoss players on ladder' Interviewer: 'But your winrate is only 56%!' Inno: 'That's only a record.'
Well played.
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On September 11 2017 04:37 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 03:21 Elentos wrote:On September 11 2017 03:17 pvsnp wrote:On September 11 2017 01:55 Mun_Su wrote:On September 10 2017 18:32 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 18:06 Elentos wrote:On September 10 2017 18:01 Alarak89 wrote:On September 10 2017 15:55 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
A 2013 finals rematch? Thank you GSL! Shame that I missed this, looks like it was epic. I am so psyched!
Also Inno is making the finals every year for four years (and chance at 3 wins in three years) is insane. What a legend Not only making to finals but Bogus had the title as well. Here are the fun parts of this coming GSL final. 1. The most premier finals appearance (9) among active Protoss players VS. the most premier finals appearance (10) among active Terran players. 2. Both have carried their race since 2013 and kept the highest offline winrates (all match-ups over 60%, both games and matches) against Korean among their race till now. 3. Both have offline title(s) every year since 2013 (if sOs wins something this year). 4. Two time Blizzcon champion VS. two time GSL champion. You cannot ask a better final than this one for hype. sOs didn't carry shit in 2014, 2016 and 2017... much like Inno barely carried himself last year. There are many reasons to be hyped about this GSL final but that was just a lie. Strictly speaking, sOs didn't carry his race in 2016 and 2017 (but it's not over yet), Bogus didn't carry his race in 2016, but this has nothing to do with their offline winrates career wise, and by "carry", I'm only counting their offline winrates and titles, not what they "looked like" during a game. After more than 5 years, Bogus still ranked first and sOs ranked second among all active players, only these two guys have a overall winrates above 60% for all MUs. I'm assuming I didn't make up those data, right? Or you're saying that Aligulac's data "was just a lie"? According to INnoVation, stats and records are BS, he is at 10% winrate TvZ If he has a 10% winrate in his strongest MU, I want to know what his TvP winrate is. Inno: 'I win about 9 out of 10 TvPs, I really feel sorry for Protoss players on ladder' Interviewer: 'But your winrate is only 56%!' Inno: 'That's only a record.' Well played.
Also the TvT version is
Inno: 'I win about 12 out of 10 TvTs, it's a match-up of pure skill and nobody is as skilled as me.'
Interviewer: 'Wait but...'
Inno: 'ONLY A RECORD!'
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it was interesting to see that innovation won all the lategame mech pushes and lost most games with the early/midgame sheananigans. seems like he is just unstoppable if he reaches that maxed out mech army.
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On September 11 2017 08:26 Poopfeast 024 wrote:
it was interesting to see that innovation won all the lategame mech pushes and lost most games with the early/midgame sheananigans. seems like he is just unstoppable if he reaches that maxed out mech army.
A maxed mech army is the strongest ground comp in the game, to be fair. With adequate AA, there's really nothing Zerg has that can beat it head-on.
Of course that's why Vipers and BL are so important.
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On September 11 2017 08:37 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 08:26 Poopfeast 024 wrote:
it was interesting to see that innovation won all the lategame mech pushes and lost most games with the early/midgame sheananigans. seems like he is just unstoppable if he reaches that maxed out mech army. A maxed mech army is the strongest ground comp in the game, to be fair. With adequate AA, there's really nothing Zerg has that can beat it head-on. Of course that's why Vipers and BL are so important.
The mechball is indeed stronger. Even with vipers/BLs/infestors there's no way for zerg to cost efficiently engage.
Zerg has to win by outexpanding the terran and having a higher income that overcomes the cost inefficiency. Or just do a hydra timing and end the game before the terran gets too far
It's a shame ByuL isn't as active as he was in 2015. He was the only zerg that could crush mech at it's peak
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On September 11 2017 12:00 Fango wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 08:37 pvsnp wrote:On September 11 2017 08:26 Poopfeast 024 wrote:
it was interesting to see that innovation won all the lategame mech pushes and lost most games with the early/midgame sheananigans. seems like he is just unstoppable if he reaches that maxed out mech army. A maxed mech army is the strongest ground comp in the game, to be fair. With adequate AA, there's really nothing Zerg has that can beat it head-on. Of course that's why Vipers and BL are so important. The mechball is indeed stronger. Even with vipers/BLs/infestors there's no way for zerg to cost efficiently engage. Zerg has to win by outexpanding the terran and having a higher income that overcomes the cost inefficiency. Or just do a hydra timing and end the game before the terran gets too far It's a shame ByuL isn't as active as he was in 2015. He was the only zerg that could crush mech at it's peak
ByuL had the best ZvMech, it's true, and he had some pretty good success with it.
But when the stakes were at their highest, Game 5 of GSL Season 3 finals, Inno beat him. ByuL was tearing up after he lost that game. Game 6 was kinda just a formality, that hour-long mech game broke his soul.
Inno really gave a perfect textbook example of 2015 turtle mech. Assemble a 180-supply Skyterran army and wait an hour until Zerg literally mines out their half of the map. One desperate attack and 100 PDDs later, 1 victory. It was a brutal way of winning, but it worked.
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On September 11 2017 08:37 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 08:26 Poopfeast 024 wrote:
it was interesting to see that innovation won all the lategame mech pushes and lost most games with the early/midgame sheananigans. seems like he is just unstoppable if he reaches that maxed out mech army. A maxed mech army is the strongest ground comp in the game, to be fair. With adequate AA, there's really nothing Zerg has that can beat it head-on. Of course that's why Vipers and BL are so important.
i think in game 5 on whirlwind there was no way for dark to have broodlords ready at innovations 10 minute mark push. even though dark had perfect makro. also ultras were not out yet - the ultraden just finished. in my honest opinion: the build time of the greater is one of the problems.
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On September 11 2017 14:14 ypslala wrote:Show nested quote +On September 11 2017 08:37 pvsnp wrote:On September 11 2017 08:26 Poopfeast 024 wrote:
it was interesting to see that innovation won all the lategame mech pushes and lost most games with the early/midgame sheananigans. seems like he is just unstoppable if he reaches that maxed out mech army. A maxed mech army is the strongest ground comp in the game, to be fair. With adequate AA, there's really nothing Zerg has that can beat it head-on. Of course that's why Vipers and BL are so important. i think in game 5 on whirlwind there was no way for dark to have broodlords ready at innovations 10 minute mark push. even though dark had perfect makro. also ultras were not out yet - the ultraden just finished. in my honest opinion: the build time of the greater is one of the problems.
I think you are right that it is impossible to get BL out so early, but that's not the point I was getting at.
Both Dark and Inno were maxed by the time Inno pushed, but both of them were maxed on midgame compositions, not the lategame ones that I was talking about earlier. Dark had Hydra/Ling/Bane with a couple Vipers, while Inno had a bunch of Hellions and a handful of Vikings plus tanks.
At that stage, Zerg not having BL (or more Vipers/Corruptors/Ultras/etc) is fine because Terran can't possibly be maxed on their own lategame comp either. Dark didn't lose Game 5 because of army composition, he lost because he let Inno siege up between his bases before the big fight.
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Watching these games is what made me swear off Starcraft 2 forever. I wanted to punch my screen, and I'm just watching. Everything is a mistake. All of creation, a mistake. I'm sticking exclusively to SC:R from now on. I said my one piece.
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And again, bw apologist comes on a sc2 thread just to pour out his hatred, without any objective point, it's absolute sadness.
But you know, sc2 players are so immature and incompetent ... 
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On September 21 2017 07:40 Mnijykmirl wrote:
Watching these games is what made me swear off Starcraft 2 forever. I wanted to punch my screen, and I'm just watching. Everything is a mistake. All of creation, a mistake. I'm sticking exclusively to SC:R from now on. I said my one piece.
If that was your piece, you could have held your peace.
........I am inordinately pleased with myself for coming up with that 
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On September 21 2017 08:24 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2017 07:40 Mnijykmirl wrote:
Watching these games is what made me swear off Starcraft 2 forever. I wanted to punch my screen, and I'm just watching. Everything is a mistake. All of creation, a mistake. I'm sticking exclusively to SC:R from now on. I said my one piece. If that was your piece, you could have held your peace. ........I am inordinately pleased with myself for coming up with that
I am jealous
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United States3648 Posts
That was probably the best LotV series I've seen so far. I've not kept up with SC2 much since sometime during HotS, but seeing a TvZ where there was plenty of aggression, lots of tank play, and a high willingness to scrap and fight for everything on the part of both players made for good watching. Artosis made the point several times that Innovation's approach to the series was rather Mvp-esque, and I have to agree. He took chances, he made bold moves, and he seemed to have a knack for knowing when and where to make a big push. A couple of games were ended because he realized when and where to move and park his army to keep Dark from being able to consolidate his forces.
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EPT
