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Rogue should have won the GSL final anyway!
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On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses outta Korea.
well, if we can only find 15-20 Koreans that'll beat Elazer / Neeb nearly 100% guaranteed, that's already better than during 90% of SC2 lifespan
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On July 16 2017 04:56 Diabolique wrote:
Rogue should have won the GSL final anyway!
so the actual winner and the guy that should have won. You don't get much harder than this 
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Someone creative we need a nightmarish pic of that hatch
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On July 16 2017 04:53 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:52 D-light wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 vult wrote:On July 16 2017 04:49 Brutaxilos wrote:
that feel when you win wcs but can't make it to Ro16 in GSL He hit Gumiho twice, unlucky. And would have been "unlucky" against one of the other good korean also. Gumiho is sick good atm. It's hard to say he wouldn't have been able to get second in a somehow easier group.
Look at the GSL groups. MajOr has the easiest one, and that's only banking on sOs deciding to not go on an insane end-of-the-year run like he's done in years past.
The skill differential between the top 32 Koreans and the top 16 is vast.
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On July 16 2017 04:57 Penev wrote:
Someone creative we need a nightmarish pic of that hatch
well I'm kinda confused, Ej said Elazer's build was a direct counter to Snute's and someone else - sorry, don't remember who - said that if Snute gets the hatch, he's probably ahead, but not by much. So I'm confused since I'd tend to think he'd be quite comfortably ahead with two hatcheries vs 1.
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On July 16 2017 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses outta Korea. well, if we can only find 15-20 Koreans that'll beat Elazer / Neeb nearly 100% guaranteed, that's already better than during 90% of SC2 lifespan
But the real question is whether that's because Elazer/Neeb have gotten more skilled, or that the mid-tier Koreans that used to shit all over top foreigners have retired/slumped/never went into pro SC2.
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On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses into next month.
Elazer is hardly at the highest pinnacle.
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On July 16 2017 05:00 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses outta Korea. well, if we can only find 15-20 Koreans that'll beat Elazer / Neeb nearly 100% guaranteed, that's already better than during 90% of SC2 lifespan But the real question is whether that's because Elazer/Neeb have gotten more skilled, or that the mid-tier Koreans that used to shit all over top foreigners have retired/slumped/never went into pro SC2.
i would guess that it is some of both
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On July 16 2017 05:00 D-light wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses into next month. Elazer is hardly at the highest pinnacle.
well who else is atm ? Elazer looks sick good compared to most other foreigners
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On July 16 2017 04:48 D-light wrote:rofl keep on drinking
P O L I S H V O D K A
B E S T V O D K A
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On July 16 2017 05:00 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses outta Korea. well, if we can only find 15-20 Koreans that'll beat Elazer / Neeb nearly 100% guaranteed, that's already better than during 90% of SC2 lifespan But the real question is whether that's because Elazer/Neeb have gotten more skilled, or that the mid-tier Koreans that used to shit all over top foreigners have retired/slumped/never went into pro SC2.
I definitely think they got more skilled. Like just look at Neeb or Nerchio or Showtime's peak play. It's unquestionably better than we've ever seen from foreign SC2, especially offline.
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The current generation of Korean SC2 progamers doesn't have any succesors, and they aren't getting any younger.
Give it a few more years, after INnoVation/Stats/TY/soO/etc join the army. Foreigners will be the highest-skilled players in SC2, but not through any improvement of their own.
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On July 16 2017 05:02 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 05:00 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses outta Korea. well, if we can only find 15-20 Koreans that'll beat Elazer / Neeb nearly 100% guaranteed, that's already better than during 90% of SC2 lifespan But the real question is whether that's because Elazer/Neeb have gotten more skilled, or that the mid-tier Koreans that used to shit all over top foreigners have retired/slumped/never went into pro SC2. I definitely think they got more skilled. Like just look at Neeb or Nerchio or Showtime's peak play. It's unquestionably better than we've ever seen from foreign SC2, especially offline.
idiosyncratic players like Stephano or NaNiwa got higher peaks imo, but yeah overall I'd say the level of the foreign scene has improved
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On July 16 2017 05:02 Parrek wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 05:00 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses outta Korea. well, if we can only find 15-20 Koreans that'll beat Elazer / Neeb nearly 100% guaranteed, that's already better than during 90% of SC2 lifespan But the real question is whether that's because Elazer/Neeb have gotten more skilled, or that the mid-tier Koreans that used to shit all over top foreigners have retired/slumped/never went into pro SC2. I definitely think they got more skilled. Like just look at Neeb or Nerchio or Showtime's peak play. It's unquestionably better than we've ever seen from foreign SC2, especially offline.
Is it? Naniwa, Stephano, and Scarlett were all putting on great shows years ago.
It's just that Koreans had even better players and far more of them.
The depth of the foreign scene has definitely increased since the glory days of 2013, but the skill ceiling hasn't really budged.
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On July 16 2017 05:03 pvsnp wrote:
The current generation of Korean SC2 progamers doesn't have any succesors, and they aren't getting any younger.
Give it a few more years, after INnoVation/Stats/TY/soO/etc join the army. Foreigners will be the highest-skilled players in SC2, but not through any improvement of their own.
if you claim sth will happen in the future, noone can prove you wrong. what an amazing way to discuss this
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On July 16 2017 05:04 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 05:02 Parrek wrote:On July 16 2017 05:00 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:56 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:54 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:51 Durnuu wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. Eh, as much as I like to say Koreans > Foreigners, Elazer lost to the GSL champion twice. It's not that bad from him. On July 16 2017 04:51 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:50 pvsnp wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 [PkF] Wire wrote:On July 16 2017 04:48 Shellshock wrote:
Elazer over $100k career earnings now if he had made ro16 in GSL imagine the hype that'd be surrounding him right now As it stands, it just kinda highlights how far above Korea still is above the foreign scene. well he finished third in a group with Rogue and Gumiho, that's nothing to be ashamed of. While it's true that Elazer had a hard GSL group, Gumiho and Rogue are not the only strong players in Korea, nor are they the strongest players in Korea. Elazer + Neeb are people who have stood at the highest pinnacle of the foreign scene--and there are still at least 16 Koreans who can kick their asses outta Korea. well, if we can only find 15-20 Koreans that'll beat Elazer / Neeb nearly 100% guaranteed, that's already better than during 90% of SC2 lifespan But the real question is whether that's because Elazer/Neeb have gotten more skilled, or that the mid-tier Koreans that used to shit all over top foreigners have retired/slumped/never went into pro SC2. I definitely think they got more skilled. Like just look at Neeb or Nerchio or Showtime's peak play. It's unquestionably better than we've ever seen from foreign SC2, especially offline. The depth of the foreign scene has definitely increased since the glory days of 2013, but the skill ceiling hasn't really budged.
I think we can agree on that
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On July 16 2017 05:05 GoloSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 05:03 pvsnp wrote:
The current generation of Korean SC2 progamers doesn't have any succesors, and they aren't getting any younger.
Give it a few more years, after INnoVation/Stats/TY/soO/etc join the army. Foreigners will be the highest-skilled players in SC2, but not through any improvement of their own. if you claim sth will happen in the future, noone can prove you wrong. what an amazing way to discuss this
It's simply my projection for the future based on what has happened over the past few years. I've also written a bunch of other posts in the same context, but sure, pick out that one and quibble over meta-argument.
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On July 16 2017 04:59 [PkF] Wire wrote:Show nested quote +On July 16 2017 04:57 Penev wrote:
Someone creative we need a nightmarish pic of that hatch well I'm kinda confused, Ej said Elazer's build was a direct counter to Snute's and someone else - sorry, don't remember who - said that if Snute gets the hatch, he's probably ahead, but not by much. So I'm confused since I'd tend to think he'd be quite comfortably ahead with two hatcheries vs 1.
You're not supposed to lose the hatch with pool first  . Elazer explained it in the interview, he had BO win, but then messed up and Snute had to mess up as well.
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EPT
