EPT[GSL Code S] Season 3 2017 Ro32 - Group D - Page 10
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
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Durnuu
13320 Posts
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VengefulTree
Canada637 Posts
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Elentos
55550 Posts
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
*Massive flood of Marines charging into a tank line* | ||
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On July 15 2017 16:25 pvsnp wrote: Tasteless: "Super cautious" *Massive flood of Marines charging into a tank line* When you're that far ahead anything other than /dancing while spamming stim is super cautious. Pretty decent from ByuN to recommend GuMi as the terran pick for GSL vs world. | ||
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pvsnp
7676 Posts
Interesting that ByuN loves to talk so much while his friends Maru and Inno are famous for their terrible interviews. | ||
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
Why Exactly are Reapers Considerered SOOO Strong? Truthfully, TvZ, it's not a problem, you can stop it with lings, like pretty easily. The reapers can't attack and defend at the same time. If you can get a force of lings at home to keep the reapers honest, you can always threaten a counter attack, which is really the way you stop it. You force the Terran to make a choice, defend your base, or attack with units that can't kill buildings very fast. I mean, isn't this exactly what sOO did vs Maru in GSL? Vs first 3 rax, then 5 rax, then 7 rax. I've seen Dark slap this down with ravagers so many times, I'm mean, what's the issue? Serious question here, cause I don't get it.... I've seen Uthermal outright kill zergs like Serrall, yet everytime i see a Zerg lose to it, I feel like the Zerg was just clueless. Take Byun vs Violet Blizzconn? Do you nerf the 2-1-1 cause he got totally wrecked? People rant on the 3rax reaper, but I feel like Byun just does it very well. I remember Maru back in Hots used to " Macro- proxy 2 rax". Like he would proxy 2 rax, but macro out of it. It was a way to gain tempo advantage. Now, this took a LOT of skill, lot of micro, but good decision making too...I think Innovation JUST did this very thing vs some Zerg I can't remember. It takes skill to be able to do this. I used to do something similar with Zerg, I would " Macro seven pool". It would be like 7 pool into queen, into speed, into lings to threaten and keep em in base, into expo, into scout and expo denial, I mean, I like micro over build orders kings..... TvT, now, I dunno, but TvZ, come on now, these zergsare just bad and don't know how to micro lings. They all wanna rush to The win button Ultras. Someone break this down for me PLEASE.... | ||
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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ZigguratOfUr
Iraq16955 Posts
On July 15 2017 20:53 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: I'm confused here.... Why Exactly are Reapers Considerered SOOO Strong? Truthfully, TvZ, it's not a problem, you can stop it with lings, like pretty easily. The reapers can't attack and defend at the same time. If you can get a force of lings at home to keep the reapers honest, you can always threaten a counter attack, which is really the way you stop it. You force the Terran to make a choice, defend your base, or attack with units that can't kill buildings very fast. I mean, isn't this exactly what sOO did vs Maru in GSL? Vs first 3 rax, then 5 rax, then 7 rax. I've seen Dark slap this down with ravagers so many times, I'm mean, what's the issue? Serious question here, cause I don't get it.... I've seen Uthermal outright kill zergs like Serrall, yet everytime i see a Zerg lose to it, I feel like the Zerg was just clueless. Take Byun vs Violet Blizzconn? Do you nerf the 2-1-1 cause he got totally wrecked? People rant on the 3rax reaper, but I feel like Byun just does it very well. I remember Maru back in Hots used to " Macro- proxy 2 rax". Like he would proxy 2 rax, but macro out of it. It was a way to gain tempo advantage. Now, this took a LOT of skill, lot of micro, but good decision making too...I think Innovation JUST did this very thing vs some Zerg I can't remember. It takes skill to be able to do this. I used to do something similar with Zerg, I would " Macro seven pool". It would be like 7 pool into queen, into speed, into lings to threaten and keep em in base, into expo, into scout and expo denial, I mean, I like micro over build orders kings..... TvT, now, I dunno, but TvZ, come on now, these zergsare just bad and don't know how to micro lings. They all wanna rush to The win button Ultras. Someone break this down for me PLEASE.... There's no way to reliably get enough lings to threaten a counterattack with reapers constantly whittling down down your forces. Especially since lings alone easily get stopped by walls at which point they are stranded on the map to get picked off. Going 3-rax reapers on the maps that are good for it is essentially getting a chance to kill the zerg, and if they defend perfectly you aren't even behind. | ||
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
I've seen great zergs stop hellion openers with lings, these guys need to think outside the build order they practiced for two weeks and learn to PLAY THE GAME IN RONT OF THEM. Reminds me of hero recent games in SSL vs Dark. When he just played the game in front of him, relied on his decision making, micro, and mechanics, and is reactive,he stomps all over Darks all in. As SOON as he went into cookie utter build order mode, he gets crushed. These Zergs need to understand, unless you go early ravages, you aren't going to " Build order" your way out of a 3 tax reaper opening. They want a perfect build they can just copy without having to think on their feet. And then people co sign this. To me that's some bullshit.. Lol | ||
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
Send your first ovie To his base. Get speed, he reapers you, make a drop -o -lord, send 8-10 lings across the map (this is 4-5 supply, give me a fuckin break...you won't miss the 4 drones..) and drop him. He sends the reapers home to defend or what? Like you tell me, he either attacks or defends, he attacks you attack, as ALL GOOD ZERGS DO, COUNTER ATTACK, or he defends and you drone. This strikes me as so easy.... | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
I look at Byun vs Armani, Armani looks CLUELESS. I look at sOO vs Maru, and the reaper thing looks like questionable at best....and this is ONLY if you kept the reapers alive and paired em with marines and Medivacs. You are really trying to say there is NO WAY to beat reapers? Really? They can't figure it out like they figured out the 2-1-1? With queens and lings? I feel like Innovations macro is MUCH more powerful than the reaper opening. Byun just does that build a TON, so he knows all the nuances of it. EXAMPLE, the last few times I've seen Byun do it, he does this thing with the first two reapers where he attacks the first queen,and he ALWAYS double grenades the queen. Now Against Armani, HE ACTUALLY LOST THE FIRST Queen TO TWO REAPERS. Notice the shock by Artosis, " I've literally never seen the first queen die to the first two reapers", the kid was clueless, no wonder he retires right after getting knocked out. I can't recall ANY other Terran that starts off with his first two reapers like that, it's a Byun trademark. He throws the second grenade exactly where the queen lands from the first, guaranteeing that double grenade damage, so that queen has to be pulled back and can't micro vs the third and fourth reapers. Like he doesn't even TRY FOR DRONES ANYMORE REALLY WITH THE FIRST TWO REAPERS, he focuses on the queen damage so the THIRD AND FOURTH reapers snowball better, subtle shit man, do you notice how Byun will grenade creep tumors with NO SCAN, LOL. You have to do that build a fuckin TON OF TIMES, fail a ton of times to understand all these little tricks, and to know how to macro out of it. It's why I gave the two rax marine example. For bad Terrans, that's an all in, for GOOD Terrans, it's a pressure tempo build that you macro out of. I got a leviathan portrait doing proxy hatches. No joke dude, I musta won 600-700 team games doing proxy hatch builds, I can't tell you how many times it failed. But after having done it SO MANY TIMES, it got to the point where I actually had BUILDs for it, this is back in 2010-12 before the Koreans started doing it in competitive games. When people were trying to tell me I was bad for doing these builds, I did em cause they were FUN, what a mind fuck back then, lol.... I actually learned HOW to macro out of it if it failed, and how to properly execute it if I was all inning. You couldn't just DO this, you had to practice it. Cannon rushing was cheese, but cannon rushing a zergs third or nat became part of the meta in WOL. This is something I haven't understood for awhile, this reapers are op thing. Let me take a look at Losira, I bet he makes a lot of these same mistakes... To be continued.... | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On July 16 2017 17:38 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote: They can't figure it out like they figured out the 2-1-1? With queens and lings? You do know that queens got +1 range before Zerg broke 40% WR in ZvT in Korea? After Losira's series I recommend the interview with ByuN where he says that a reaper nerf is fine, because they are too strong. | ||
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
Second thing I see right away is Losira, like every bad fuckin Zerg out there, goes for a third he HAD to know was going to get cancelled. He has speed and a TON OF LINGS, but he like all these bad zergs,he had em all on one hot key. Doesn't send a dozen or so lings to Byuns base for a counter. I can't see why the drop thing I mentioned wouldn't work, they spent all this time talking about Losiras ovie scout patterns and how he can't be proxied ( so the 2 tax rine opener wouldn't work, see) so send one to Byuns base, you see those reapers out on the map, drop him.... To be continued... | ||
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
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SpaWnvERtiGO
110 Posts
He reminds me of how Armani played it as well. Make 14-20 lings, run them into the reapers,they die. Rinse and repeat. There is no way you can tell me Losira couldn't counter attack. To be continued... | ||
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