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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51456 Posts
Poll: Who Advances?Stats & Byun (20) 83% Forte & Losira (2) 8% Losira & Byun (1) 4% Losira & Stats (1) 4% Stats & Forte (0) 0% Byun & Forte (0) 0% 24 total votes Your vote: Who Advances? (Vote): Stats & Byun
(Vote): Forte & Losira
(Vote): Losira & Byun
(Vote): Stats & Forte
(Vote): Byun & Forte
(Vote): Losira & Stats
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It's like, Forte and Losira have no real chance of advancing :C
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United Kingdom31935 Posts
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Stats and ByuN go through. Not much contest.
However, worth noting that Losira has always been capable of pulling the upset. He's an underrated zerg
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With Stats and ByuN in their current form, I have to favor Stats atm.
Though both of them should advance no problem.
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United States97276 Posts
Forte and Losira because fuck it
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On July 15 2017 05:32 Myrddrael wrote:Seconded
agreed
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On July 15 2017 10:10 Shellshock wrote:
Forte and Losira because fuck it
I actually love this prediction. Let the underdogs advance!
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Lol the weird sound echo on the Bunker is instantly solved. No NASL sound guys at the GSL.
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i would like my boy Forte to get 2nd place with ByuNjwa but Stats is too strong.
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Neeb confirmed as the foreigner goat by tastosis, these guys have weird opinions sometimes
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Hm... I spent whole night playing Darkest Dungeon to only realize it's GSL time. Guess no sleep for me.
Gogo Stats and Losira!
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On July 15 2017 12:57 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Neeb confirmed as the foreigner goat by tastosis, these guys have weird opinions sometimes
As long as they don't call Zest the best Protoss again.
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Stats threw away his lead pretty hard.
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This game is wild already
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Both sides going full NA...
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Stats was bound to save revelations with mines out, so a banshee isn't that great in that situation.
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as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte
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On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte
That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all.
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On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all.
So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens.
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On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens.
And with oracle you get alarm, allowing you to react and minimize damage.
With mine? If you missed mine and you hear alarm, it's already too late and you might gg.
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That Warp Prism is sitting there for so long... Wtf Forte.
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On July 15 2017 13:30 OsaX Nymloth wrote:
Liberators ~~
Warpgate ~~
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On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens.
Nah a mine cannot do that at all, first it needs a medivac to even be able to get into the opponent's base and then the protoss would actually need to mess up really badly (stack the workers) to make that happen.
A banshee really needs cloak at least to be able to do that and then it's still a lot slower. Oracles definitely are kinda special here, especially because the unit even has extra utility so it doesn't even matter if you don't get a lot
Stats ? :O
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On July 15 2017 13:30 OsaX Nymloth wrote:
Liberators ~~
I'll blame that on Stats. He should've seen the ranged liberators coming and rushed out tempests, but instead he played on automatic and continued for disruptors. Also sacrificing all those stalkers to tanks...
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Game of Throws
First I thought Stats had the game for sure after soft-containing Forte, then I thought Forte had it for sure after the great battle, then Stats for sure after the big warp-in, then I realized Stats had no AA against a fleet of Liberators.
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On July 15 2017 13:31 Lexender wrote:Warpgate ~~
Liberators >>> warpgate
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I mean if forte wins this he will lose to stats in the decider, poor guy
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On July 15 2017 13:33 OsaX Nymloth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:31 Lexender wrote:On July 15 2017 13:30 OsaX Nymloth wrote:
Liberators ~~ Warpgate ~~ Liberators >>> warpgate
That game was Stats's to lose and he lost it. All he needed to do was keep some Stalkers at home instead of throwing them into Forte's base. Stats threw that hard.
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On July 15 2017 13:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens. Nah a mine cannot do that at all, first it needs a medivac to even be able to get into the opponent's base and then the protoss would actually need to mess up really badly (stack the workers) to make that happen. A banshee really needs cloak at least to be able to do that and then it's still a lot slower. Oracles definitely are kinda special here, especially because the unit even has extra utility so it doesn't even matter if you don't get a lot Stats ? :O
Mines end more games outright than oracles by a significant margin if you look at the top level. To not die against oracles you just basically need to be prepared (that's not to say you'll necessarily win since oracles have a lot of utility), whereas defending against mines is more finicky.
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On July 15 2017 13:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens. Nah a mine cannot do that at all, first it needs a medivac to even be able to get into the opponent's base and then the protoss would actually need to mess up really badly (stack the workers) to make that happen. A banshee really needs cloak at least to be able to do that and then it's still a lot slower. Oracles definitely are kinda special here, especially because the unit even has extra utility so it doesn't even matter if you don't get a lot Stats ? :O Mines end more games outright than oracles by a significant margin if you look at the top level. To not die against oracles you just basically need to be prepared (that's not to say you'll necessarily win since oracles have a lot of utility), whereas defending against mines is more finicky.
Mines themselves are finicky though, they can win a game outright but they can (and do) also completely whiff.
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On July 15 2017 13:36 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens. Nah a mine cannot do that at all, first it needs a medivac to even be able to get into the opponent's base and then the protoss would actually need to mess up really badly (stack the workers) to make that happen. A banshee really needs cloak at least to be able to do that and then it's still a lot slower. Oracles definitely are kinda special here, especially because the unit even has extra utility so it doesn't even matter if you don't get a lot Stats ? :O Mines end more games outright than oracles by a significant margin if you look at the top level. To not die against oracles you just basically need to be prepared (that's not to say you'll necessarily win since oracles have a lot of utility), whereas defending against mines is more finicky. Mines themselves are finicky though, they can win a game outright but they can (and do) also completely whiff.
True enough. And you're always hoping for an opponent's mistake. Defending against the mines is harder for the Protoss, but if you do it right you should win (whereas oracles while less threatening are also more forgiving to lose for the Protoss in most circumstances).
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On July 15 2017 13:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens. Nah a mine cannot do that at all, first it needs a medivac to even be able to get into the opponent's base and then the protoss would actually need to mess up really badly (stack the workers) to make that happen. A banshee really needs cloak at least to be able to do that and then it's still a lot slower. Oracles definitely are kinda special here, especially because the unit even has extra utility so it doesn't even matter if you don't get a lot Stats ? :O Mines end more games outright than oracles by a significant margin if you look at the top level. To not die against oracles you just basically need to be prepared (that's not to say you'll necessarily win since oracles have a lot of utility), whereas defending against mines is more finicky.
That are two different arguments though, i am not saying that a widow mine drop with multiple mines cannot do the same as an undefended oracle. I am saying that in the case of the oracle it's literally one oracle being that scary. In the case of mines it's multiple mines + the medivac. There is a difference.
I just don't think that building a single unit should have that impact ever. Especially because it's an air unit.
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On July 15 2017 13:40 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens. Nah a mine cannot do that at all, first it needs a medivac to even be able to get into the opponent's base and then the protoss would actually need to mess up really badly (stack the workers) to make that happen. A banshee really needs cloak at least to be able to do that and then it's still a lot slower. Oracles definitely are kinda special here, especially because the unit even has extra utility so it doesn't even matter if you don't get a lot Stats ? :O Mines end more games outright than oracles by a significant margin if you look at the top level. To not die against oracles you just basically need to be prepared (that's not to say you'll necessarily win since oracles have a lot of utility), whereas defending against mines is more finicky. That are two different arguments though, i am not saying that a widow mine drop with multiple mines cannot do the same as an undefended oracle. I am saying that in the case of the oracle it's literally one oracle being that scary. In the case of mines it's multiple mines + the medivac. There is a difference. I just don't think that building a single unit should have that impact ever. Especially because it's an air unit.
When an oracle wins the game single-handedly it's always a significant mistake or a serious gamble from the losing player. It isn't great design, but it also isn't completely awful because of that.
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Well yes people have found ways to deal with it, i don't deny that either. But i think it's pretty awful design.
Oh well, doesn't matter now. Forte being competitive against Stats is worrisome (for stats)
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Unimpressive series from Stats. His micro was sluggish and lacked precision, his army movement was slightly off, and it didn't feel like he adapted to his opponent at all. He just followed his PvT formula slightly inaccurately and it happened to be enough since it was Forte.
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Nicely done by Stats imho. Dealing with ranged libs is pain.
Now Losira, take down the filthy terran somehow!
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fuck Forte was so close  ... Stats on the other hand didnt play as good as i thought he would
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On July 15 2017 13:49 OsaX Nymloth wrote:
Nicely done by Stats imho. Dealing with ranged libs is pain.
Now Losira, take down the filthy terran somehow!
Not doing a move command when medivacs full of units pass over your stalkers would've helped against the liberators.
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On July 15 2017 13:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:36 pvsnp wrote:On July 15 2017 13:35 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:32 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:23 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 13:22 The_Red_Viper wrote:On July 15 2017 13:16 Topin wrote:
as a terran you should always expect for an oracle... weird choice by Forte That's the thing, one oracle alone can already mean game over. I really don't like that at all. So can a mine or a banshee. But as long as the players are good it rarely happens. Nah a mine cannot do that at all, first it needs a medivac to even be able to get into the opponent's base and then the protoss would actually need to mess up really badly (stack the workers) to make that happen. A banshee really needs cloak at least to be able to do that and then it's still a lot slower. Oracles definitely are kinda special here, especially because the unit even has extra utility so it doesn't even matter if you don't get a lot Stats ? :O Mines end more games outright than oracles by a significant margin if you look at the top level. To not die against oracles you just basically need to be prepared (that's not to say you'll necessarily win since oracles have a lot of utility), whereas defending against mines is more finicky. Mines themselves are finicky though, they can win a game outright but they can (and do) also completely whiff. True enough. And you're always hoping for an opponent's mistake. Defending against the mines is harder for the Protoss, but if you do it right you should win (whereas oracles while less threatening are also more forgiving to lose for the Protoss in most circumstances).
Yeah, that was basically my point. Mines are higher risk but higher reward compared to Oracles.
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On July 15 2017 13:50 Lexender wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:49 OsaX Nymloth wrote:
Nicely done by Stats imho. Dealing with ranged libs is pain.
Now Losira, take down the filthy terran somehow! Not doing a move command when medivacs full of units pass over your stalkers would've helped against the liberators.
That was derpy for sure. As long as protoss wins and terran loses I'm content.
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On July 15 2017 13:49 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Unimpressive series from Stats. His micro was sluggish and lacked precision, his army movement was slightly off, and it didn't feel like he adapted to his opponent at all. He just followed his PvT formula slightly inaccurately and it happened to be enough since it was Forte.
Yeah, Stats was very unimpressive for somebody that's supposed to be a top Protoss. INnoVation/TY/any top Terran would've ripped him to bloody shreds.
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On July 15 2017 13:51 OsaX Nymloth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:50 Lexender wrote:On July 15 2017 13:49 OsaX Nymloth wrote:
Nicely done by Stats imho. Dealing with ranged libs is pain.
Now Losira, take down the filthy terran somehow! Not doing a move command when medivacs full of units pass over your stalkers would've helped against the liberators. That was derpy for sure. As long as protoss wins and terran loses I'm content.
Stats is supposed to be way better than Forte though. I am not favoring him against ByuN right now.
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On July 15 2017 13:51 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:49 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Unimpressive series from Stats. His micro was sluggish and lacked precision, his army movement was slightly off, and it didn't feel like he adapted to his opponent at all. He just followed his PvT formula slightly inaccurately and it happened to be enough since it was Forte. Yeah, Stats was very unimpressive for somebody that's supposed to be a top Protoss. INnoVation/TY/any top Terran would've ripped him to bloody shreds.
He's doing a Showtime. As the Korean scene is always several months behind the foreign scene (as we all know) the slump just hasn't caught up to him yet.
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On July 15 2017 13:55 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 13:51 pvsnp wrote:On July 15 2017 13:49 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Unimpressive series from Stats. His micro was sluggish and lacked precision, his army movement was slightly off, and it didn't feel like he adapted to his opponent at all. He just followed his PvT formula slightly inaccurately and it happened to be enough since it was Forte. Yeah, Stats was very unimpressive for somebody that's supposed to be a top Protoss. INnoVation/TY/any top Terran would've ripped him to bloody shreds. He's doing a Showtime. As the Korean scene is always several months behind the foreign scene (as we all know) the slump just hasn't caught up to him yet.
Nah, Showtime is doing a Zest.
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Shocking. A 3-rax reaper from ByuN. If Blizzard finally succeeds in nerfing the 3-rax reaper out of viability will ByuN disappear for another two years?
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Lost one Reaper, ByuN slump confirmed
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On July 15 2017 14:01 pvsnp wrote:
Lost one Reaper, ByuN slump confirmed
Already fears the proposed changes.
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Oh another poorly designed unit, this time terran edition 
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So, about that grenade nobody asked for...
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On July 15 2017 14:02 OsaX Nymloth wrote:Already fears the proposed changes.
Tomorrow: To nerf ByuN we've decided that the next map pool is going to consist of Arkanoid, New Gettysburg, Flame Juggler, Arkanoid, Proxima Station, Arkanoid, Arkanoid.
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that was disgusting... not sure if good or bad disgusting
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On July 15 2017 14:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:02 OsaX Nymloth wrote:On July 15 2017 14:01 pvsnp wrote:
Lost one Reaper, ByuN slump confirmed Already fears the proposed changes. Tomorrow: To nerf ByuN we've decided that the next map pool is going to consist of Arkanoid, New Gettysburg, Flame Juggler, Arkanoid, Proxima Station, Arkanoid, Arkanoid.
Jokes on you, I saw him go 3 rax reapers on Proxima too.
And New Gettysburg is similar to Newkirk Precinct so he'd probaly go 3 rax there too.
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On July 15 2017 14:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:Oh another poorly designed unit, this time terran edition
Yeah, I'm not going to try to defend that one.
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Losira teched to gg while forum Zergs go apeshit frothing at the mouth yet again.
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On July 15 2017 14:05 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:03 The_Red_Viper wrote:Oh another poorly designed unit, this time terran edition Yeah, I'm not going to try to defend that one.
i can see the 3 nerf at once now hahaahah
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He actually did exactly what Tasteless said -- went with injured reapers to granades to throw them back behind; insane.
Sad for Losira though, since the same thing happened last season. He must be so upset
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Grim Reaper is actually a good nickname, because ByuN is Death--the Fourth Horseman.
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On July 15 2017 14:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:02 OsaX Nymloth wrote:On July 15 2017 14:01 pvsnp wrote:
Lost one Reaper, ByuN slump confirmed Already fears the proposed changes. Tomorrow: To nerf ByuN we've decided that the next map pool is going to consist of Arkanoid, New Gettysburg, Flame Juggler, Arkanoid, Proxima Station, Arkanoid, Arkanoid.
New patch
Reapers
- can't jump cliffs anymore, instead it climbs. Slowly. But you might throw grenade underneath to make reaper climb faster. Also, reaper have fear of hugs and can't fight when hugged by lings.
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On July 15 2017 14:05 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 14:02 OsaX Nymloth wrote:On July 15 2017 14:01 pvsnp wrote:
Lost one Reaper, ByuN slump confirmed Already fears the proposed changes. Tomorrow: To nerf ByuN we've decided that the next map pool is going to consist of Arkanoid, New Gettysburg, Flame Juggler, Arkanoid, Proxima Station, Arkanoid, Arkanoid. Jokes on you, I saw him go 3 rax reapers on Proxima too. And New Gettysburg is similar to Newkirk Precinct so he'd probaly go 3 rax there too.
Sure. It's still a garbage build on Proxima.
Now I hope Losira is moderately competent enough to show us why.
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On July 15 2017 14:05 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:04 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 14:02 OsaX Nymloth wrote:On July 15 2017 14:01 pvsnp wrote:
Lost one Reaper, ByuN slump confirmed Already fears the proposed changes. Tomorrow: To nerf ByuN we've decided that the next map pool is going to consist of Arkanoid, New Gettysburg, Flame Juggler, Arkanoid, Proxima Station, Arkanoid, Arkanoid. Jokes on you, I saw him go 3 rax reapers on Proxima too. And New Gettysburg is similar to Newkirk Precinct so he'd probaly go 3 rax there too.
You called?
3rax on Proxima it is, I'm still betting on ByuN tho.
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"It's not like ByuN is a one trick pony" - Artosis
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please do not nerf reapers
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In the meantime, LosirA is 30 drones ahead 
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On July 15 2017 14:11 Durnuu wrote:In the meantime, LosirA is 30 drones ahead
No creep, ByuN has a ton of Marines.
And...gg
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On July 15 2017 14:11 Durnuu wrote:In the meantime, LosirA is 30 drones ahead
And promptly dies due to overdroning and not scouting anything ever. If he'd gone for a roach warren he'd have been just fine.
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On July 15 2017 14:11 Durnuu wrote:In the meantime, LosirA is 30 drones ahead
But in the end it doesn't even matter.
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Well, that was quick. Macro anyone?
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Okay, time to spend like eight hours in front of the computer with sc2!
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Music is really fantastic. Some music elevates the spirit, some makes us sad. This song in turn makes us instantly aware that whoever likes it is a huge douche bag.
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On July 15 2017 14:19 Heartland wrote:
Music is really fantastic. Some music elevates the spirit, some makes us sad. This song in turn makes us instantly aware that whoever likes it is a huge douche bag.
Some songs were just written by douchebags for douchbags to play while being douchebags.
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I watch sOs and know that this is what Sc2 is meant to be
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On July 15 2017 14:20 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:19 Heartland wrote:
Music is really fantastic. Some music elevates the spirit, some makes us sad. This song in turn makes us instantly aware that whoever likes it is a huge douche bag. Some songs were just written by douchebags for douchbags to play while being douchebags.
some song were written just to get that sweet caucasian-middle-class-suburbia-teen-I'm-so-street money
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On July 15 2017 14:21 OsaX Nymloth wrote:Don't care how, but Stats please win this. + Show Spoiler +
ByuN all the way baby !!
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ByuN is doing the proxy WM drop build that his senpai INnoVation invented specifically to counter Stats in SSL (it worked)
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Lol, this is a real mine field
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Get out Stats your not good enough
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On July 15 2017 14:24 Noonius wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:20 pvsnp wrote:On July 15 2017 14:19 Heartland wrote:
Music is really fantastic. Some music elevates the spirit, some makes us sad. This song in turn makes us instantly aware that whoever likes it is a huge douche bag. Some songs were just written by douchebags for douchbags to play while being douchebags. some song were written just to get that sweet caucasian-middle-class-suburbia-teen-I'm-so-street money
I'd venture that more than a few of those are in both categories.
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This isn't too bad for Stats. He needs to survive a big push, but apart from that he hasn't lost too much. The third CC is just starting.
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Stats has been playing far better now than against Forte though
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he should have killed the 3rd its so red
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Tasteless is not on the ball today at all
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Well looks like Stats has this one ...sigh
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Great play by Stats, get rekt terran!
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On July 15 2017 14:33 pvsnp wrote:
Stats has been playing far better now than against Forte though
It's partly because of how their playstyles lineup. ByuN often trades off his own economy in exchange for more aggression, whereas Stats is good at stonewalling early harass.
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Are the numbers 3D or what?
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On July 15 2017 14:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:33 pvsnp wrote:
Stats has been playing far better now than against Forte though It's partly because of how their playstyles lineup. ByuN often trades off his own economy in exchange for more aggression, whereas Stats is good at stonewalling early harass.
That's true. Stats is a great defensive macro Protoss, but he definitely derped some against Forte.
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On July 15 2017 14:39 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 14:37 ZigguratOfUr wrote:On July 15 2017 14:33 pvsnp wrote:
Stats has been playing far better now than against Forte though It's partly because of how their playstyles lineup. ByuN often trades off his own economy in exchange for more aggression, whereas Stats is good at stonewalling early harass. That's true. Stats is a great defensive macro Protoss, but he definitely derped some against Forte.
ByuN could probably crush Stats is he took the pedal off the harassment and just went for a build like the one Salvation did and raced for a strong midgame army with liberators and tanks. Stats is weakest in the in between stage--between defending early and early-mid harass and the super-late game armies. But ByuN isn't Polt and would never go for a build like that.
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stats defense so fucking solid
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Tasteless should never be allowed to cast another game of starcraft, that mistake was too much.
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Tastosis' calls are pretty off today. I mean ByuN is still dead, but there's a few more minutes and at least one more engagement left.
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I don't get it, how can toss pick-up the mines when they're hidden under marines/medivacs?
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On July 15 2017 14:47 VengefulTree wrote:
I don't get it, how can toss pick-up the mines when they're hidden under marines/medivacs?
With phoenixes you sometimes need a bit of a zoom and rotate to see units.
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Glorious play by Stats, seriously. The way he defends is just superb.
I'm off to bed, hope Losira gets revenge.
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On July 15 2017 14:47 VengefulTree wrote:
I don't get it, how can toss pick-up the mines when they're hidden under marines/medivacs?
Top Protoss players can do it for the same reason top Terrans can target-fire banes mixed with lings.
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Forte vs Losira should be good. come one Forte! you deserve a win here
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Also cheering for Forte. His stream is very nice, and he really looks like a teen owl
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Forte trying to emulate ByuN, this may not end well for him....
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On July 15 2017 15:02 pvsnp wrote:
Forte trying to emulate ByuN, this may not end well for him....
if it works well for him the reaper nerf will be live tomorrow
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Nooo, if he had seen the push coming he could have naded it to death
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This is why they say only ByuN can break the game with Reapers....
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how come there is no link to watch the game?
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I am so sick of these goddamn reapers
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That's actually a cool build just lacking medivacs
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Did he just came up with this build? 5 racks + 1 reapers
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On July 15 2017 15:15 VengefulTree wrote:
Did he just came up with this build? 5 racks + 1 reapers
No ByuN's done this a few times. And you follow up with marine pushes with grenades to disrupt. Maru too though it was really bad and he followed it up with the 7-rax reaper.
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mass reaper, mass adept , mass marine , mass roach\raverger.. no wonder SC2 has declined so much in viewship
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On July 15 2017 15:17 Topdoller wrote:
mass reaper, mass adept , mass marine , mass roach\raverger.. no wonder SC2 has declined so much in viewship
Uhh, no.
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Byun-level splits
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zerg never seems to be an the opponents half of the map in lotv lol
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On July 15 2017 15:19 Tsubbi wrote:
zerg never seems to be an the opponents half of the map in lotv lol
Even in WoL and HotS there was always a focus on zerg defending and terran attacking, but it does seem worse in LotV.
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That push was lascivious (I mean sexy)
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On July 15 2017 15:10 TerranOwnsAll wrote:
how come there is no link to watch the game?
Because no one gives a shit about the TL Calendar anymore...
Anyway if you haven't found it yet, there's links in the OP.
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Liberators with mines underneath are insane
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On July 15 2017 15:22 VengefulTree wrote:
That push was lascivious (I mean sexy)
Sure you didn't mean salacious?
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On July 15 2017 15:23 Heartland wrote:
Liberators with mines underneath are insane
Well if the Zerg has 0 Ravagers/Corruptors, yeah....
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On July 15 2017 15:23 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 15:22 VengefulTree wrote:
That push was lascivious (I mean sexy) Sure you didn't mean salacious?
Lascivious, salacious, lecherous
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On July 15 2017 15:24 VengefulTree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 15:23 pvsnp wrote:On July 15 2017 15:22 VengefulTree wrote:
That push was lascivious (I mean sexy) Sure you didn't mean salacious? Lascivious, salacious, lecherous
Happy Thesaurus Day!
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In the next update Blizz says reapers are fine
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Something something Reapers, something something only ByuN
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Geez, I wonder what build Byun will pull out against Losira
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On July 15 2017 15:29 VengefulTree wrote:Geez, I wonder what build Byun will pull out against Losira
I can see him going proxy 2 rax marines as a mix up
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On July 15 2017 15:27 RaFox17 wrote:In the next update Blizz says reapers are fine
ByuN just shaking his head, so disappointed with Forte.
"Alright before everyone thinks there actually is a counter, imma make Reapers look broken as fuck again."
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On July 15 2017 15:29 Durnuu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 15:29 VengefulTree wrote:Geez, I wonder what build Byun will pull out against Losira I can see him going proxy 2 rax marines as a mix up
It's a nice build on Abyssal Reef, but ByuN might worry about being too predictable .
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On July 15 2017 15:28 pvsnp wrote:
Something something Reapers, something something only ByuN
I usually like tastosis, but tasteless' blind adoration for Byun's micro and reaper control is getting to my nerves. I can't imagine what it's like for regular GSL viewers
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On July 15 2017 15:30 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 15:27 RaFox17 wrote:In the next update Blizz says reapers are fine ByuN just shaking his head, so disappointed with Forte. "Alright before everyone thinks there actually is a counter, imma make Reapers look broken as fuck again."
There is a counter. Namely selecting Protoss before the game starts.
On July 15 2017 15:30 VengefulTree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 15:28 pvsnp wrote:
Something something Reapers, something something only ByuN I usually like tastosis, but tasteless' blind adoration for Byun's micro and reaper control is getting to my nerves. I can't imagine what it's like for regular GSL viewers
It isn't too bad when there's a PvZ going on, but otherwise yeah it can be a bit much.
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On July 15 2017 15:30 VengefulTree wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 15:28 pvsnp wrote:
Something something Reapers, something something only ByuN I usually like tastosis, but tasteless' blind adoration for Byun's micro and reaper control is getting to my nerves. I can't imagine what it's like for regular GSL viewers
Well, I mean they have a point. Losira just beat Forte's Reapers....
It's a regular game now.
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And somehow the game is somewhat even again
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it has been a long time since i was able to watch gsl, nice to hear tastosis with some tvz action
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this is wrong on so many levels
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Forte's harass has actually been pretty good so far
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On July 15 2017 15:36 starkiller123 wrote:
Forte's harass has actually been pretty good so far
its easy if theres no risk to it
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Lurkers are interesting (read bad) in this match-up. Not sure what purpose they serve.
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Forte's push was pretty stupid. He wasn't maxed, he didn't have 3/3 (which he started pretty late actually), there was no reason to push with everything. Just deny the creep or something
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On July 15 2017 15:38 ZigguratOfUr wrote:
Lurkers are interesting (read bad) in this match-up. Not sure what purpose they serve.
Yeah I remember Inno butchered Solar when he tried Hydra/Lurker in ZvT.
But Forte is trying to prove us wrong.
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Forte saving us from more 3 rax reapers! What a hero
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On July 15 2017 15:43 VengefulTree wrote:
Forte saving us from more 3 rax reapers! What a hero
Great, we'll get proxy 2 rax reapers instead !
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Oh wait I forgot those also work in TvT XD
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On July 15 2017 15:43 VengefulTree wrote:
Forte saving us from more 3 rax reapers! What a hero
I'm not sure about that. We could get two 3-rax reapers in a single game instead.
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Biggest problem with reapers is that it's not allin at all, so easy to transition into a normal game
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ByuN: "Wait no 3rax Reaper? I guess I just proxy 2rax Reaper instead."
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So what made 3rax reaper this strong? Byun's 2 medivac marine drop was the tvz opening when i watched every single tournament
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All the other terrans hate Forte at the moment :D
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On July 15 2017 15:48 Isualin wrote:
So what made 3rax reaper this strong? Byun's 2 medivac marine drop was the tvz opening when i watched every single tournament
Nothing in particular. Just meta shifts and terrans realizing that they could get a chance to win the game, while being even at worse
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On July 15 2017 15:48 Isualin wrote:
So what made 3rax reaper this strong? Byun's 2 medivac marine drop was the tvz opening when i watched every single tournament
The 2/1/1 got figured out. Meta shifted and just so happens that it shifted to 3rax Reaper which became an opener instead of an allin.
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On July 15 2017 15:48 Isualin wrote:
So what made 3rax reaper this strong? Byun's 2 medivac marine drop was the tvz opening when i watched every single tournament
The 2-1-1 build was created by Maru actually.
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On July 15 2017 15:51 pvsnp wrote:Show nested quote +On July 15 2017 15:48 Isualin wrote:
So what made 3rax reaper this strong? Byun's 2 medivac marine drop was the tvz opening when i watched every single tournament The 2/1/1 got figured out. Meta shifted and just so happens that it shifted to 3rax Reaper which became an opener instead of an allin.
Though in truth the 3-rax reaper has shifted in and out of meta several times so far. It was in meta for a while before 2/1/1 became popular. It comes and goes like seasonal flu.
I'm expecting it to go out of style once Blizzard nerfs it, but come back in time to pester us at Blizzcon.
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Damn, I don't know who to cheer for
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On July 15 2017 15:59 VengefulTree wrote:
Damn, I don't know who to cheer for
Cheer for Forte. ByuN already has oodles of fans.
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ByuN's TvT is not that great, there's a chance Forte takes him out here.
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On July 15 2017 16:01 pvsnp wrote:
ByuN's TvT is not that great, there's a chance Forte takes him out here.
Would make for a good story. Forte the fan-favourite slayer.
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well, this was anticlimactic
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this was wol tvp level of "one fight to finish the game"
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I think I'll cheer for Byun 2-1 and good games (lame wish I know)
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I'm low masters and even I don't unsiege all my tanks
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On July 15 2017 16:04 Isualin wrote:
well, this was anticlimactic
Marine-Tank TvT tends to be.
God I miss 2013 Bio vs Mech TvT so much...
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Welp, what a bop.
edit: Though they are even in workers, so it ain't over yet.
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Australia18228 Posts
After all that, it's still even
oh ByuN has 3 CCs
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This isn't that bad for Forte yet.
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The souply doesn't lie, Forte is pretty dead
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That feeling when you realize it's 3 am, the gsl effect. Well, good games!
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Forte just not good enough
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Tasteless: "Super cautious"
*Massive flood of Marines charging into a tank line*
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On July 15 2017 16:25 pvsnp wrote:
Tasteless: "Super cautious"
*Massive flood of Marines charging into a tank line*
When you're that far ahead anything other than /dancing while spamming stim is super cautious.
Pretty decent from ByuN to recommend GuMi as the terran pick for GSL vs world.
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This interview is ridiculously long...
Interesting that ByuN loves to talk so much while his friends Maru and Inno are famous for their terrible interviews.
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I'm confused here....
Why Exactly are Reapers Considerered SOOO Strong?
Truthfully, TvZ, it's not a problem, you can stop it with lings, like pretty easily. The reapers can't attack and defend at the same time. If you can get a force of lings at home to keep the reapers honest, you can always threaten a counter attack, which is really the way you stop it. You force the Terran to make a choice, defend your base, or attack with units that can't kill buildings very fast. I mean, isn't this exactly what sOO did vs Maru in GSL? Vs first 3 rax, then 5 rax, then 7 rax. I've seen Dark slap this down with ravagers so many times, I'm mean, what's the issue? Serious question here, cause I don't get it....
I've seen Uthermal outright kill zergs like Serrall, yet everytime i see a Zerg lose to it, I feel like the Zerg was just clueless.
Take Byun vs Violet Blizzconn? Do you nerf the 2-1-1 cause he got totally wrecked? People rant on the 3rax reaper, but I feel like Byun just does it very well.
I remember Maru back in Hots used to " Macro- proxy 2 rax". Like he would proxy 2 rax, but macro out of it. It was a way to gain tempo advantage. Now, this took a LOT of skill, lot of micro, but good decision making too...I think Innovation JUST did this very thing vs some Zerg I can't remember. It takes skill to be able to do this.
I used to do something similar with Zerg, I would " Macro seven pool". It would be like 7 pool into queen, into speed, into lings to threaten and keep em in base, into expo, into scout and expo denial, I mean, I like micro over build orders kings.....
TvT, now, I dunno, but TvZ, come on now, these zergsare just bad and don't know how to micro lings. They all wanna rush to The win button Ultras.
Someone break this down for me PLEASE....
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juicyjames
United States3815 Posts
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On July 15 2017 20:53 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
I'm confused here....
Why Exactly are Reapers Considerered SOOO Strong?
Truthfully, TvZ, it's not a problem, you can stop it with lings, like pretty easily. The reapers can't attack and defend at the same time. If you can get a force of lings at home to keep the reapers honest, you can always threaten a counter attack, which is really the way you stop it. You force the Terran to make a choice, defend your base, or attack with units that can't kill buildings very fast. I mean, isn't this exactly what sOO did vs Maru in GSL? Vs first 3 rax, then 5 rax, then 7 rax. I've seen Dark slap this down with ravagers so many times, I'm mean, what's the issue? Serious question here, cause I don't get it....
I've seen Uthermal outright kill zergs like Serrall, yet everytime i see a Zerg lose to it, I feel like the Zerg was just clueless.
Take Byun vs Violet Blizzconn? Do you nerf the 2-1-1 cause he got totally wrecked? People rant on the 3rax reaper, but I feel like Byun just does it very well.
I remember Maru back in Hots used to " Macro- proxy 2 rax". Like he would proxy 2 rax, but macro out of it. It was a way to gain tempo advantage. Now, this took a LOT of skill, lot of micro, but good decision making too...I think Innovation JUST did this very thing vs some Zerg I can't remember. It takes skill to be able to do this.
I used to do something similar with Zerg, I would " Macro seven pool". It would be like 7 pool into queen, into speed, into lings to threaten and keep em in base, into expo, into scout and expo denial, I mean, I like micro over build orders kings.....
TvT, now, I dunno, but TvZ, come on now, these zergsare just bad and don't know how to micro lings. They all wanna rush to The win button Ultras.
Someone break this down for me PLEASE....
There's no way to reliably get enough lings to threaten a counterattack with reapers constantly whittling down down your forces. Especially since lings alone easily get stopped by walls at which point they are stranded on the map to get picked off. Going 3-rax reapers on the maps that are good for it is essentially getting a chance to kill the zerg, and if they defend perfectly you aren't even behind.
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My last post on this, I wanted to get someone's opinion. But this is just not right. I feel like most zergs THINK they can't get enough lings out, cause they been trained to think all they should be doing early game is droning, and if they don't, they will be behind.
I've seen great zergs stop hellion openers with lings, these guys need to think outside the build order they practiced for two weeks and learn to PLAY THE GAME IN RONT OF THEM.
Reminds me of hero recent games in SSL vs Dark. When he just played the game in front of him, relied on his decision making, micro, and mechanics, and is reactive,he stomps all over Darks all in.
As SOON as he went into cookie utter build order mode, he gets crushed. These Zergs need to understand, unless you go early ravages, you aren't going to " Build order" your way out of a 3 tax reaper opening. They want a perfect build they can just copy without having to think on their feet.
And then people co sign this. To me that's some bullshit.. Lol
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Like take this right, you know you are playing vs Byun, right? You are a Zerg player, 95% chance he does a 3 rax reaper opening.
Send your first ovie To his base. Get speed, he reapers you, make a drop -o -lord, send 8-10 lings across the map (this is 4-5 supply, give me a fuckin break...you won't miss the 4 drones..) and drop him. He sends the reapers home to defend or what? Like you tell me, he either attacks or defends, he attacks you attack, as ALL GOOD ZERGS DO, COUNTER ATTACK, or he defends and you drone. This strikes me as so easy....
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No, you are just wrong. Plain and simple.
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Okay, so sOO and Dark don't shut this down regularly? Or even RECENTLY, if not regularly.
I look at Byun vs Armani, Armani looks CLUELESS. I look at sOO vs Maru, and the reaper thing looks like questionable at best....and this is ONLY if you kept the reapers alive and paired em with marines and Medivacs.
You are really trying to say there is NO WAY to beat reapers? Really? They can't figure it out like they figured out the 2-1-1? With queens and lings?
I feel like Innovations macro is MUCH more powerful than the reaper opening. Byun just does that build a TON, so he knows all the nuances of it.
EXAMPLE, the last few times I've seen Byun do it, he does this thing with the first two reapers where he attacks the first queen,and he ALWAYS double grenades the queen. Now Against Armani, HE ACTUALLY LOST THE FIRST Queen TO TWO REAPERS. Notice the shock by Artosis, " I've literally never seen the first queen die to the first two reapers", the kid was clueless, no wonder he retires right after getting knocked out.
I can't recall ANY other Terran that starts off with his first two reapers like that, it's a Byun trademark. He throws the second grenade exactly where the queen lands from the first, guaranteeing that double grenade damage, so that queen has to be pulled back and can't micro vs the third and fourth reapers. Like he doesn't even TRY FOR DRONES ANYMORE REALLY WITH THE FIRST TWO REAPERS, he focuses on the queen damage so the THIRD AND FOURTH reapers snowball better, subtle shit man, do you notice how Byun will grenade creep tumors with NO SCAN, LOL.
You have to do that build a fuckin TON OF TIMES, fail a ton of times to understand all these little tricks, and to know how to macro out of it. It's why I gave the two rax marine example. For bad Terrans, that's an all in, for GOOD Terrans, it's a pressure tempo build that you macro out of.
I got a leviathan portrait doing proxy hatches. No joke dude, I musta won 600-700 team games doing proxy hatch builds, I can't tell you how many times it failed. But after having done it SO MANY TIMES, it got to the point where I actually had BUILDs for it, this is back in 2010-12 before the Koreans started doing it in competitive games. When people were trying to tell me I was bad for doing these builds, I did em cause they were FUN, what a mind fuck back then, lol.... I actually learned HOW to macro out of it if it failed, and how to properly execute it if I was all inning. You couldn't just DO this, you had to practice it.
Cannon rushing was cheese, but cannon rushing a zergs third or nat became part of the meta in WOL.
This is something I haven't understood for awhile, this reapers are op thing. Let me take a look at Losira, I bet he makes a lot of these same mistakes... To be continued....
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On July 16 2017 17:38 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
They can't figure it out like they figured out the 2-1-1? With queens and lings?
You do know that queens got +1 range before Zerg broke 40% WR in ZvT in Korea?
After Losira's series I recommend the interview with ByuN where he says that a reaper nerf is fine, because they are too strong.
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Okay, I'm four minutes into the Byun Losira game, people LOSIRA IS CLUELESS. I'm sorry to break it to you guys. First off Byun lost a reaper to drones. Seriously, RUSH OVER, if you know what you are doing, he couldn't even get the queen damage I was referencing in this game and he did go for it.
Second thing I see right away is Losira, like every bad fuckin Zerg out there, goes for a third he HAD to know was going to get cancelled. He has speed and a TON OF LINGS, but he like all these bad zergs,he had em all on one hot key. Doesn't send a dozen or so lings to Byuns base for a counter. I can't see why the drop thing I mentioned wouldn't work, they spent all this time talking about Losiras ovie scout patterns and how he can't be proxied ( so the 2 tax rine opener wouldn't work, see) so send one to Byuns base, you see those reapers out on the map, drop him.... To be continued...
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Yes, single control group, a move no control ass zerglings, this is what I see so far. Those weren't even scary reapers... To be continued...
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Okay after watching game one, Losira is bad. Like what the entire fuck people?
He reminds me of how Armani played it as well. Make 14-20 lings, run them into the reapers,they die. Rinse and repeat. There is no way you can tell me Losira couldn't counter attack. To be continued...
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And I get the +1 queen thing, but that was a reaction to liberators, if I'm not mistaken, not reapers...
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Okay,I just watched the first two to three minutes of gsl season 2 maru vs sOO as a reference. Dude LOOK at how sOO handles this. He makes his third before there are four to five reapers out. So there is no chance for it to be dps down by 7-8 reapers. Much quicker than the other zergs I see. Then he makes like 14-20 lings , and keeps them IN THE MINERAL LINE, he doesn't suicide them into the reapers over and over like these clueless ass zergs. Like this squad of LINGS, NEVER ATTACKS THE REAPERS, YOU DEFEND YOUR DRONE LINE...
Then as SOON as he has like 25 or so lings, he COUNTER ATTACKS ( what you guys claim you can't do, and the thing is he had NO lings to defend as he sends em across the map, the BALLS, LOL lol) and he still has enough larva to pop lings just in time to keep attacking reapers honest. More than one fuckin control group, no a moves... I gotta watch the rest.. To be continued... Ima figure this out one way or another lol...
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You guys are looking for a BUILD to beat reapers, when what you need is positioning and tactics.....basically BRAINS over BRAWN...
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Okay, seriously watch that Maru vs sOO, cause they echo everything I'm saying, how sOO response was TACTICAL, where as Darks was logical, like well I make these units to beat these units. That build order shit... Learn to micro zeros, lol and this is from a Zerg player here....
User was warned for this post
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Stop spamming. It's against TL rules
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My apologies, I wasn't trying to spam... I'm actually trying to spark a legit discussion about this, cause I feel like the community is very wrong here... You can't even USE reapers against anything but drones and lings, to nerf em, they might as well remove em...
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Also, am I wrong? Legit question, I'd rather someone prove me wrong than complain I made too many posts about it...
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Second game, same series. sOO massacres the first group of reapers, with the same tactics. Only lings and micro. He even saves his third vs the 7-8-9 reaper number that can actually kill a hatch.
Kept TWO control groups of lings, one at home to keep the reapers honest, another to stop reinforcements and threaten a counter attack. This has a paralysis like effect on Marus reapers, as they held position in the middle of the map at the tower, neither attacking OR defending for fear of a ling surround. The tactical interplay here, this was my favorite gsl group to watch so far this year.
I gotta finish watching...more analysis to come...
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Maru takes second game, only cause sOO lost it. sOO at virtually ANY time coulda killed him with a bane ling attack. He almost won with his counter attacks, which would have worked better with a few banes I think...more Starcraft lol....
Edit; actually, sOO basically kinda threw that game... After he kills all the reapers, he niether drones OR all ins, OR techs. He just keeps making lings......
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Finished game three, lol. sOO defends third hatch JUST before the 7-9 reaper count can kill it, saves his third, drones up. Proceeds to stomp Marus 7 rax reaper follow up with ...............Only lings. Positioning, micro and surrounds. Come on now,...you guys are bugging.....
Edit; I feel compelled to add, if you say it's not Byun, it's the reapers, well this was the Terran with the consensus second best micro using the reapers.
It reminds me of when the euro zeros say, eh, mech is bad. Yeah, until they face Gumiho mech, then they get crushed. Maybe it's the euro Terrans, just MAYBE...
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Final thought on this...
I suggest everyone watch the Byun Losira, and Byun Armani. Then watch Maru vs sOO and compare how the zergs handle it. I think it's gonna be clear to anyone Armani and Losira were literally clueless, even about HOW many reapers it takes to kill a hatch, and how to properly surround and the tactical nuances....
I'm all ears fellas, prove me wrong please....
User was temp banned for this post.
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I wasn't trying to spam but let me spam again immediately
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I love tasteless, but why does he need to predict the future every 5 minutes? Let go of the predictions.
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On July 16 2017 18:41 SpaWnvERtiGO wrote:
Okay, seriously watch that Maru vs sOO, cause they echo everything I'm saying, how sOO response was TACTICAL, where as Darks was logical, like well I make these units to beat these units. That build order shit... Learn to micro zeros, lol and this is from a Zerg player here....
User was warned for this post
Amazing slogan spouting
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How hard is it to write one long post instead of ten short ones?
Has the added benefit of coalescing your point and hopefully improving its coherence.
Stream-of-consciousness posting tends to end badly.
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sad for Forte, he played well vs Stats and Losira but in TvT ByuN was just better. gg Forte
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On July 17 2017 07:24 Topin wrote:sad for Forte, he played well vs Stats and Losira but in TvT ByuN was just better. gg Forte
Yeah, I felt the same way by the end. Forte looked like a really solid player who belongs in Code S. Just maybe not the Ro16 yet. Would love to see him become just that tiny bit better and really shine with the best.
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EPT
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/611.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4707.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/688.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/951.jpg)
