On July 14 2017 06:42 argonautdice wrote: bracket looks terrible and suspiciously similar to WCS jonkoping. This is definitely not a randomly generated bracket.
maybe not definitely but i was thinking the same thing? and major must be really salty about having to play neeb in ro8 again.
I get it...sort of, but why and how they decided that matchup is really weird.
Snute (1a vs 8b) plays Scarlett Neeb (1b vs 7a) plays Probe Serral (2a vs 6b) plays Cloudy
Then it gets weird with Major (4a vs 2b) plays Zanster
It resumes with Nerchio (3a vs 5b) plays Stephano Kelazhur (5a vs 3b) plays Masa
Then Elazer (6a vs 4b) plays Has PtitDrogo (8a vs 7b) plays TRUE
So it goes from group A where 1 and 2 play the 2 and 1 from groups H and G respectively and the winner of group B playing the second from F.
Then randomly Major plays Zanster, and they continue the pattern with Nerchio, Stephano, Kelazhur, and Masa, with Masa playing Kelazhur because Major was already playing someone else. Then the leftover spots are Drogo/TRUE and Has/Elazer.
So 1 always plays 2, but they messed it up so that there are multiple people who can potentially play their own group members should they make it far enough.
On July 14 2017 06:42 argonautdice wrote: bracket looks terrible and suspiciously similar to WCS jonkoping. This is definitely not a randomly generated bracket.
maybe not definitely but i was thinking the same thing? and major must be really salty about having to play neeb in ro8 again.
Sure there could be coincidence. Compared to Jonkoping, the Europeans Serral, Ptitdrogo, Stephano, Nerchio, Elazer in the same half of bracket; the NA players Kelazhur, Neeb and Major in the other half of the bracket. The difference from here to Jonkoping for the same set of players is that Scarlett and Snute moved from the European half to the NA half, so I feel that there may be regional seeding.
wtf, so Neeb eliminates TLO 3 season in a row and bumps in to Major 3 times in a row in the Ro8, FeelsBad for TLO (and Major is Neeb wins again) also it's not group stage day 2 anymore LOL and WTF SHOWTIME!
the bracket is seeded by wcs points so neeb/probe should be switched with true/drogo (drogo 7 vs major 2 / probe 8 vs serral 1) is what major is talking about
serral vs neeb would be ro8 match then but it would be accurate to how the rest is done
Its a big mess tbh im Seed 2 but in reallity i should be seed 3 because u cant count current gsl season 3 wcs points if u want to keep consintenesy lkme the whole ty vs gumiho on gsl vs the world since if they did cljnt current points it would be gumiho invited Over tt
On July 14 2017 07:58 Scarlett` wrote: the bracket is seeded by wcs points so neeb/probe should be switched with true/drogo (drogo 7 vs major 2 / probe 8 vs serral 1) is what major is talking about
serral vs neeb would be ro8 match then but it would be accurate to how the rest is done
Do you know if they'll change it around or it'll stay as it is?
Seeds should be as followed if in order by WCS pts. 1st place finishers: 1. Serral 2. Nerchio 3 .MajOr 4. Kelazhur 5. Elazer 6. Snute 7. PtitDrogo 8. Probe
2nd place finishers: 1. Neeb 2. TRUE 3. Scarlett 4. Has 5. Stephano 6. MaSa 7. Zanster 8. Cloudy
Which would result in these match-ups. Serral vs Cloudy 1v8 Nerchio vs Zanster 2v7 MajOr vs MaSa 3v6 Kelazhur vs Stephano 4v5 Elazer vs Has 5v4 Snute vs Scarlett 6v3 PtitDrogo vs TRUE 7v2 Probe vs Neeb 8v1
Btw I'm not sure it's exactly fair that in order to advance in WCS points in a bracket if you have a low amount of points, you have to beat someone who has all the points. Seems like it makes it very likely that the order of the ranking won't change much. On top of that it makes it likely that we see the same matches over and over again but I'm more concerned for the players than us.
On July 14 2017 08:10 Major wrote: Its a big mess tbh im Seed 2 but in reallity i should be seed 3 because u cant count current gsl season 3 wcs points if u want to keep consintenesy lkme the whole ty vs gumiho on gsl vs the world since if they did cljnt current points it would be gumiho invited Over tt
TY can still earn the points Gumiho earned as the difference is that TY's group is played later. Nerchio, on the other hand, can't gain any points from the current GSL while you will, so this is a bit of a different story.
Although I didn't know WCS kr points count for the circuit as well.
IT'S NOT GROUP STAGE IT'S PLAYOFFS THIS IS TRIGGERING ME SO MUCH
On July 14 2017 08:52 Tesarul wrote: Also it's not Group Stage day 2 it's the playoffs.
On July 14 2017 07:40 AzAlexZ wrote: wtf, so Neeb eliminates TLO 3 season in a row and bumps in to Major 3 times in a row in the Ro8, FeelsBad for TLO (and Major is Neeb wins again) also it's not group stage day 2 anymore LOL and WTF SHOWTIME!
On July 14 2017 08:10 Major wrote: Its a big mess tbh im Seed 2 but in reallity i should be seed 3 because u cant count current gsl season 3 wcs points if u want to keep consintenesy lkme the whole ty vs gumiho on gsl vs the world since if they did cljnt current points it would be gumiho invited Over tt
TY can still earn the points Gumiho earned as the difference is that TY's group is played later. Nerchio, on the other hand, can't gain any points from the current GSL while you will, so this is a bit of a different story.
Although I didn't know WCS kr points count for the circuit as well.
They don't. Scarlett, Major, Elazer, Time and Noregret have WCS Korea points and WCS Circuit points but they are not combined
On July 14 2017 08:10 Major wrote: Its a big mess tbh im Seed 2 but in reallity i should be seed 3 because u cant count current gsl season 3 wcs points if u want to keep consintenesy lkme the whole ty vs gumiho on gsl vs the world since if they did cljnt current points it would be gumiho invited Over tt
TY can still earn the points Gumiho earned as the difference is that TY's group is played later. Nerchio, on the other hand, can't gain any points from the current GSL while you will, so this is a bit of a different story.
Although I didn't know WCS kr points count for the circuit as well.
They don't. Scarlett, Major, Elazer, Time and Noregret have WCS Korea points and WCS Circuit points but they are not combined
They are combined for seeding xd and they are wrong in my Opinion but alas
On July 14 2017 08:10 Major wrote: Its a big mess tbh im Seed 2 but in reallity i should be seed 3 because u cant count current gsl season 3 wcs points if u want to keep consintenesy lkme the whole ty vs gumiho on gsl vs the world since if they did cljnt current points it would be gumiho invited Over tt
TY can still earn the points Gumiho earned as the difference is that TY's group is played later. Nerchio, on the other hand, can't gain any points from the current GSL while you will, so this is a bit of a different story.
Although I didn't know WCS kr points count for the circuit as well.
They don't. Scarlett, Major, Elazer, Time and Noregret have WCS Korea points and WCS Circuit points but they are not combined
They are combined for seeding xd and they are wrong in my Opinion but alas
Well, Dreamhack isn't required to have a format that makes sense. At least there's no coin tosses anymore.
So players from the same group can be on the same side of the bracket (Snute/Neeb and Elazer/Cloudy Liquipedia)? What's the deal with that? Doesn't that go against the format's idea?
Edit: Haven't really been following that much WCS so that might be the norm now, but as a quick look feels weird.
On July 14 2017 18:04 LefaLefa wrote: So players from the same group can be on the same side of the bracket
Traditionally no, but in this case they use WCS points to seed players into the bracket, which kinda means the group stage is just a qualifier, and the bracket stage is a separate tournament.
As others have pointed out, using WCS points for bracket seeding means we will see the same kind of bracket often, as almost every player is in each tournament where those WCS points could be acquired, and differences could be made. However, this speaks volumes about the consistency of the top players, if they keep reaching the same results over and over again. This would also mean there is very little luck involved in pro matches which is nice, right.
It sucks seeing the same matches repeat but if they insist on using this kind of seeding, and not random pairing from he groups, then WCS points is probably the most accurate and transparent form of seeding we currently have, as Aligulac and Ladder points will not do.
It speaks to their consistency but it also doesn't. Neeb's consistency is impressive but I'd be a lot more impressed if he had done this out of killing everyone rather than TLO and Major a lot. We haven't had Neeb Scarlett in WCS proper since august 2016...
Looks like the groups are going to stand (which makes sense since it would just cause more confusion to change them after they were announced)
Well good, this bracket already killed my interest in the tournament, now I don't have to reconsider.
Aren't you excited for the absolutely accidental Serral vs Neeb final?
No, I don't feel like watching the same tournament every month.
What if Special wins this time ?
He's gonna choke against Neeb again.
There's the potential of a 2nd straight finals after the first one was rather exciting with the chance of the loser of the last one winning it with less nerves. I mean sure if this ends up happening three straight times I could understand getting bored, but to be already seems quite premature.
On July 14 2017 21:18 Aelendis wrote: Did Drogo just refuse to handshake?
I thought he gave a very short and terse one but could have been a refusal.
It was a refusal.
Lol someone's salty
I am? I just thought it was quite clear that there was no handshake. Considering that Drogo left without a gg as well it's not surprising. I don't like that sort of behaviour, but I'm hardly salty, not sure why you think I am.
Looks like the groups are going to stand (which makes sense since it would just cause more confusion to change them after they were announced)
Well good, this bracket already killed my interest in the tournament, now I don't have to reconsider.
Aren't you excited for the absolutely accidental Serral vs Neeb final?
No, I don't feel like watching the same tournament every month.
What if Special wins this time ?
He's gonna choke against Neeb again.
There's the potential of a 2nd straight finals after the first one was rather exciting with the chance of the loser of the last one winning it with less nerves. I mean sure if this ends up happening three straight times I could understand getting bored, but to be already seems quite premature.
The entire bracket is basically the exact same as in Jönköping. And I'm not accepting of that fact.
On July 14 2017 21:18 Aelendis wrote: Did Drogo just refuse to handshake?
I thought he gave a very short and terse one but could have been a refusal.
It was a refusal.
Lol someone's salty
I am? I just thought it was quite clear that there was no handshake. Considering that Drogo left without a gg as well it's not surprising. I don't like that sort of behaviour, but I'm hardly salty, not sure why you think I am.
On July 14 2017 21:18 Aelendis wrote: Did Drogo just refuse to handshake?
I thought he gave a very short and terse one but could have been a refusal.
It was a refusal.
Lol someone's salty
I am? I just thought it was quite clear that there was no handshake. Considering that Drogo left without a gg as well it's not surprising. I don't like that sort of behaviour, but I'm hardly salty, not sure why you think I am.
I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
Yeah I agree, the whole tradition of having the winner walk up to shake the loser's hand is pretty awkward.
I mean, it's like thanking them for losing.
if it would be the other way around there might be not many handshakes. Walking over to the winner and offering them a handshake right after losing is 10 times harder than just accepting a handshake from the winner. At least I'd assume this, no experience ofc
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
Yeah I agree, the whole tradition of having the winner walk up to shake the loser's hand is pretty awkward.
I mean, it's like thanking them for losing.
if it would be the other way around there might be not many handshakes. Walking over to the winner and offering them a handshake right after losing is 10 times harder than just accepting a handshake from the winner. At least I'd assume this, no experience ofc
I don't think the winner walking to the loser to shake their hand has tradition outside of esports. I generally know it the other way around.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
On July 14 2017 22:22 OsaX Nymloth wrote: How was Cloudy playing and how True defeated Drogo? Arrived to see Godchio winning, but missed earlier games.
Cloudy was playing surprisingly well. He tried different strategies like: macro game, sentry-immortal push (this one was successful), pure charge zealot off 32 probes, air toss. But Serral was too strong, he played solid too
True defeated Drogo with a bunch of hydra-ling timings, and one ling flood with queens in overlords. Drogo was tilted, left the last game without a gg and refused a handshake. Then he apologized on twitter.
On July 14 2017 22:22 OsaX Nymloth wrote: How was Cloudy playing and how True defeated Drogo? Arrived to see Godchio winning, but missed earlier games.
Cloudy was playing surprisingly well. He tried different strategies like: macro game, sentry-immortal push (this one was successful), pure charge zealot off 32 probes, air toss. But Serral was too strong, he played solid too
True defeated Drogo with a bunch of hydra-ling timings, and one ling flood with queens in overlords. Drogo was tilted, left the last game without a gg and refused a handshake. Then he apologized on twitter.
Thanks! Was wondering why everybody is talking about handshakes on Twitter. x]
On July 14 2017 22:08 Musicus wrote: I think coming out afterwards and maning up to apologise says a lot. Everybody can snap in the spur of the moment, when something means so much to you. Well done Drogo.
But I actually agree with Bunny, everyone knows losing in SC2 is pretty rough and when much is on the line it's even rougher. So having to be 100% reasonable right after losing when emotions are so high is not always realistic. Denying a handshake is of course very rude still, but the whole idea of the winner walking up is a bit weird.
Yeah I agree, the whole tradition of having the winner walk up to shake the loser's hand is pretty awkward.
I mean, it's like thanking them for losing.
if it would be the other way around there might be not many handshakes. Walking over to the winner and offering them a handshake right after losing is 10 times harder than just accepting a handshake from the winner. At least I'd assume this, no experience ofc
and that should be the point it should happen because people actually want to do it. not because of some superficial obligation
Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again? Neeb vs Major was close on paper but their h2h is soO vs finals tier.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now. And every major series with Neeb and Major has been stupid close even if Neeb got the edge.
Just put Major and Scarlett in the same Ro8 bracket or Elazer in Neeb's bracket instead of Scarlett, you improve the odds massively.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now.
Do you deny that if you actively wanted to do it you could make a bracket that is much more favourable to getting Neeb Serral in the finals? If you don't, you agree with 100% of my post.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now.
Do you deny that if you actively wanted to do it you could make a bracket that is much more favourable to getting Neeb Serral in the finals? If you don't, you agree with 100% of my post.
I don't know about Neeb, but Serral's bracket is the easiet possible.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now.
Do you deny that if you actively wanted to do it you could make a bracket that is much more favourable to getting Neeb Serral in the finals? If you don't, you agree with 100% of my post.
Cliche-wise? No, this is as cliche of Neeb Serral finals bracket as it gets with maybe small improvements required.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now.
Do you deny that if you actively wanted to do it you could make a bracket that is much more favourable to getting Neeb Serral in the finals? If you don't, you agree with 100% of my post.
I don't know about Neeb, but Serral's bracket is the easiet possible.
Could give him Nerchio Ro8 and Scarlett Ro4. Then Neeb gets Kelazhur Ro8 and Major/Elazer Ro4
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now.
Do you deny that if you actively wanted to do it you could make a bracket that is much more favourable to getting Neeb Serral in the finals? If you don't, you agree with 100% of my post.
I don't know about Neeb, but Serral's bracket is the easiet possible.
Could give him Nerchio Ro8 and Scarlett Ro4
Nerchio is much better than TRUE at ZvZ (top3 non-kor after Serral and Elazer) and Scarlett isn't even likely to make ro8.
On July 14 2017 22:28 Nebuchad wrote: Neeb gets Major and Scarlett, Serral gets True and Elazer, those are pretty hard. If I wanted to set up another Neeb Serral at all costs I could have done a better job.
What is Serral's ZvZ winrate in last 3 months, again?
Elazer has 80% ZvZ on the korean ladder right now.
Do you deny that if you actively wanted to do it you could make a bracket that is much more favourable to getting Neeb Serral in the finals? If you don't, you agree with 100% of my post.
I don't know about Neeb, but Serral's bracket is the easiet possible.
Could give him Nerchio Ro8 and Scarlett Ro4
Nerchio is much better than TRUE at ZvZ (top3 non-kor after Serral and Elazer) and Scarlett isn't even likely to make ro8.
On July 14 2017 22:56 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Bly and Dayshi died for this
I really wonder how Bly died, didn't see the games yesterday. Did someone see that ?
He lost to 2-base chargelot all-ins twice. And then in the last game of the day he lost to Has playing almost standard, went into a base trade, asked for a draw when he knew Has was about to come kill his only building, but Has said NO and killed him.
Also Bly's preferred tech choice against 4 stargates is mutas.
On July 14 2017 22:56 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote: Bly and Dayshi died for this
I really wonder how Bly died, didn't see the games yesterday. Did someone see that ?
He lost to 2-base chargelot all-ins twice. And then in the last game of the day he lost to Has playing almost standard, went into a base trade, asked for a draw when he knew Has was about to come kill his only building, but Has said NO and killed him.
Also Bly's preferred tech choice against 4 stargates is mutas.
On July 14 2017 23:19 [PkF] Wire wrote: wouldn't fungal on the interceptors have worked a bit better ? At some point they were REALLY clumped over spores
On July 14 2017 23:19 [PkF] Wire wrote: wouldn't fungal on the interceptors have worked a bit better ? At some point they were REALLY clumped over spores
Probably but I think he would have lost anyway. He just didn't have the army to kill 15 carriers
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
Admitting you don't fall behind too much, mass corruptors (with a few vipers) can do the trick with the right focus fire. The problem is that Elazer had to go for Hydras because of the oracles, and then his hydra timing failed to kill Has. The neural was a good idea too but he didn't have enough infestors I think.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
He isn't great at positioning and his army control is rather lacking as well. The rest is atypical but at the very least extremely interesting.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
He's an okay Zerg player too.
Zerg needs 3 hotkeys at GSL level so that's not a surprise.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
He's an okay Zerg player too.
I assume you're trolling but that's an interesting question, I don't think he would do too well but I'd like to see it.
On July 14 2017 23:22 raff100 wrote: What's Zerg answer to mass carriers? Does it exist?
Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
He's an okay Zerg player too.
I assume you're trolling but that's an interesting question, I don't think he would do too well but I'd like to see it.
Nah he offraced Zerg in some Taiwanese tournaments. Mostly(only?) in ZvZ of course.
On July 14 2017 23:23 Durnuu wrote: [quote] Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
He's an okay Zerg player too.
I assume you're trolling but that's an interesting question, I don't think he would do too well but I'd like to see it.
Nah he offraced Zerg in some Taiwanese tournaments. Mostly(only?) in ZvZ of course.
On July 14 2017 23:23 Durnuu wrote: [quote] Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
He's an okay Zerg player too.
I assume you're trolling but that's an interesting question, I don't think he would do too well but I'd like to see it.
Nah he offraced Zerg in some Taiwanese tournaments. Mostly(only?) in ZvZ of course.
Yeah only in ZvZ. He wasn't confident enough to play PvZ vs Winter so he played ZvZ and they went all the way to game 5.
On July 14 2017 23:23 Durnuu wrote: [quote] Depends if there are templars or not. Without templars it's not that good
With templars is just altf4,but there's a way to counter mass carriers only ?
pure carrier actually loses to corruptors, if they don't have detection even infestors win. Then there's spores+abduct. Carrier is a really weak unit without support.
yeah here Elazer never had the eco to support a sufficient corruptor transition, otherwise he'd have been fine since Has was just going for mass carriers
It makes sense that he would go for an hydra push after the early game and hydra push is not the right response to what Has was doing, it's a well planned game overall
never said it wasn't, I actually agree ridiculous though the game may have looked In fact most things Has does look silly but have a sensible plan behind them
Has isn't great at positioning, the rest of his protoss is good to great.
His terran would suck obviously but that's probably why he doesn't play terran.
He's an okay Zerg player too.
I assume you're trolling but that's an interesting question, I don't think he would do too well but I'd like to see it.
Nah he offraced Zerg in some Taiwanese tournaments. Mostly(only?) in ZvZ of course.
consciously electing to play ZvZ instead of PvZ reveals a twisted mind that surprises me even coming from Has
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
oh definitely not, that was before lotv
TvT isn't that different now...? unless it's reaper cheese ofc, macro games are very similar.
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
What, how would you die before midgame with tankivacs in the game?
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
You make it to the midgame after proxy reapers :D?
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
agreed. Tankivac tvt was the worst thing I've ever played.
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
You make it to the midgame after proxy reapers :D?
I open with 2-rax reaper everygame. Pretty good build i recommend. Just make 3 reapers and then macro up ez (and if you see proxy reaper just mass reapers)
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
What, how would you die before midgame with tankivacs in the game?
Well i didn't die before midgame there, but tankivac wars kind of just killed my motivation for life :D
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
oh definitely not, that was before lotv
TvT isn't that different now...? unless it's reaper cheese ofc, macro games are very similar.
recently I only seem to see quick games that involve reaper retardedness and my awful experience of the mu playing a bit of T on the NA server doesn't help
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
What, how would you die before midgame with tankivacs in the game?
Well i didn't die before midgame there, but tankivac wars kind of just killed my motivation for life :D
Should have learnt to play with them like a Korean
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
What, how would you die before midgame with tankivacs in the game?
Well i didn't die before midgame there, but tankivac wars kind of just killed my motivation for life :D
Should have learnt to play with them like a Korean
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
What, how would you die before midgame with tankivacs in the game?
Well i didn't die before midgame there, but tankivac wars kind of just killed my motivation for life :D
Should have learnt to play with them like a Korean
I've never liked playing video games that i dont like
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
What, how would you die before midgame with tankivacs in the game?
Well i didn't die before midgame there, but tankivac wars kind of just killed my motivation for life :D
Should have learnt to play with them like a Korean
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
Tankivacs were so much more playable than this.
I dunno kev. Atleast nowadays i can make it to midgame 90% of the time. In tankivac tvt i just wanted to break my table :D
What, how would you die before midgame with tankivacs in the game?
Well i didn't die before midgame there, but tankivac wars kind of just killed my motivation for life :D
Should have learnt to play with them like a Korean
But then you would be banned from wcs.
I think Luolis could take that risk
Apollo wouldn't. I am suprised True and Masa haven't been assasinated yet.
On July 14 2017 23:49 [PkF] Wire wrote: there was a time when watching TvT was really enjoyable, in fact I was looking forward to that mu. Not the case anymore to say the least
Well, atleast it's not tankivac TvT. That shit literally made me quit the game for a while:D
oh definitely not, that was before lotv
TvT isn't that different now...? unless it's reaper cheese ofc, macro games are very similar.
recently I only seem to see quick games that involve reaper retardedness and my awful experience of the mu playing a bit of T on the NA server doesn't help
Yeah reaper builds are somehow really popular atm. But if it gets past that it's as good as in HotS, the TvTs at Katowice were incredibly entertaining
I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
speedivacs is THE thing that made TvT less enjoyable imo
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining. speedvacs are the best thing that happened to TvT
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining. speedvacs are the best thing that happened to TvT
I liked the old positional game the most. Felt atleast for me purely like a game of skill and positioning (if noone went mech that is) :D
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
People still compare TvT to chess, I'll never wrap my head around that.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
You liked doomdropfest more? :D
yes
nothing wrong with doom-drops.
I dunno, i think theyre a pretty boring way to end games compared to like good long positional play.
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
You liked doomdropfest more? :D
yes
nothing wrong with doom-drops.
I dunno, i think theyre a pretty boring way to end games compared to like good long positional play.
Well, it's not like you can just randomly load up medivacs and boost in the opponent's base. Getting a good doom-drop or preventing it has a lot to do with maintaining map-control and having good army positioning.
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
Noone is saying that it is exactly like chess.
Pretty sure I can find at least 5 separate vods of Artosis saying it
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
You liked doomdropfest more? :D
yes
nothing wrong with doom-drops.
I dunno, i think theyre a pretty boring way to end games compared to like good long positional play.
Well, it's not like you can just randomly load up medivacs and boost in the opponent's base. Getting a good doom-drop or preventing it has a lot to do with maintaining map-control and having good army positioning.
Nah a lot of the time it's really just: Hey i am out of options, let's load up and pray!
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
You liked doomdropfest more? :D
yes
nothing wrong with doom-drops.
I dunno, i think theyre a pretty boring way to end games compared to like good long positional play.
Well, it's not like you can just randomly load up medivacs and boost in the opponent's base. Getting a good doom-drop or preventing it has a lot to do with maintaining map-control and having good army positioning.
True, i guess it's just a matter of opinion. Imo speedvacs make doomdropping a bit too riskless, since boosting in through missile turrets is pretty doable and if theres too much stuff waiting, you can just bail while the boost is still going. Before it was a huge risk because your medivacs couldn't escape easily
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
Noone is saying that it is exactly like chess.
Pretty sure I can find at least 5 separate vods of Artosis saying it
Go for it. Yes people compare it to chess, but usually you compare things which aren't "exactly the same"
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
People still compare TvT to chess, I'll never wrap my head around that.
It's exactly like chess. Whoever doomdrops their knights and bishops on their opponents king first wins.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
You liked doomdropfest more? :D
yes
nothing wrong with doom-drops.
I dunno, i think theyre a pretty boring way to end games compared to like good long positional play.
Well, it's not like you can just randomly load up medivacs and boost in the opponent's base. Getting a good doom-drop or preventing it has a lot to do with maintaining map-control and having good army positioning.
But it's not like actual tank stalemates can happen anymore now with liberators. While doom drops are still a pain to clean up if they slip through your network even just once.
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
Noone is saying that it is exactly like chess.
Pretty sure I can find at least 5 separate vods of Artosis saying it
Go for it. Yes people compare it to chess, but usually you compare things which aren't "exactly the same"
Okay, so let me amend that. It has barely anything in common with chess.
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
People still compare TvT to chess, I'll never wrap my head around that.
It's exactly like chess. Whoever doomdrops their knights and bishops on their opponents king first wins.
It's like noob chess, always go for the rook back row checkmate
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
People still compare TvT to chess, I'll never wrap my head around that.
It's exactly like chess. Whoever doomdrops their knights and bishops on their opponents king first wins.
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
People still compare TvT to chess, I'll never wrap my head around that.
It's exactly like chess. Whoever doomdrops their knights and bishops on their opponents king first wins.
Proxy rook cheese is the worst thing to ever happen to chess.
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Masa opened almost exactly like i do always. I like it because it's fairly safe and you get to bio really fast, which i like because it skips the shit earlygame tank pushes.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
You liked doomdropfest more? :D
yes
nothing wrong with doom-drops.
I dunno, i think theyre a pretty boring way to end games compared to like good long positional play.
Well, it's not like you can just randomly load up medivacs and boost in the opponent's base. Getting a good doom-drop or preventing it has a lot to do with maintaining map-control and having good army positioning.
Nah a lot of the time it's really just: Hey i am out of options, let's load up and pray!
and then you die because the opponent just attacks while 4 + medivacs worth of units are missing from your army...
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Masa opened almost exactly like i do always. I like it because it's fairly safe and you get to bio really fast, which i like because it skips the shit earlygame tank pushes.
yeah I get the point of it now. It looks indeed very safe and skips the part of the game I don't enjoy as well. Maybe I should try it.
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Masa opened almost exactly like i do always. I like it because it's fairly safe and you get to bio really fast, which i like because it skips the shit earlygame tank pushes.
yeah I get the point of it now. It looks indeed very safe. Maybe I should try it.
Yeah the only difference is that he added a factory that fast, while i make a 3rd rax before it to add to the safeness aswell as getting a huge force of bio to harass with when you get medivacs.
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Dude that's all his games.
I don't understand anything to TvT, don't be too harsh on me was it his opener last game ? Maybe this was and I found it less surprising since it was Defender's
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Dude that's all his games.
I don't understand anything to TvT, don't be too harsh on me was it his opener last game ? Maybe this was and I found it less surprising since it was Defender's
Sorry!
MaSa kinda made his name by playing wacky builds and somehow winning games off them.
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
Noone is saying that it is exactly like chess.
Pretty sure I can find at least 5 separate vods of Artosis saying it
Go for it. Yes people compare it to chess, but usually you compare things which aren't "exactly the same"
Okay, so let me amend that. It has barely anything in common with chess.
I mean obviously a round based game like chess with perfect information is very different from a real time game with imperfect information. But in comparison to the other matchups TvT felt the most like this round based game trying to control space, etc. I mean you could compare it to go and that might be better, but chess is the western game so there is that.
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Dude that's all his games.
I don't understand anything to TvT, don't be too harsh on me was it his opener last game ? Maybe this was and I found it less surprising since it was Defender's
Sorry!
MaSa kinda made his name by playing wacky builds and somehow winning games off them.
np np mate MaSa is an interesting player indeed, not as offbeat as Has but definitely interesting
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Dude that's all his games.
I don't understand anything to TvT, don't be too harsh on me was it his opener last game ? Maybe this was and I found it less surprising since it was Defender's
Sorry!
MaSa kinda made his name by playing wacky builds and somehow winning games off them.
np np mate MaSa is an interesting player indeed, not as offbeat as Has but definitely interesting
If you wanna know what I'm talking about, try checking out the Ender's Game BluRay Invitational during HotS where he just did some WILD ASS SHIT.
On July 15 2017 00:00 Luolis wrote: I always thought WoL TvT was the best TvT anyways. HotS became not as good because of speedvacs and the cloak change that made 111 openers so prevalent :D
no thanks, those never-ending tank stalemates weren't very entertaining.
You liked doomdropfest more? :D
yes
nothing wrong with doom-drops.
I dunno, i think theyre a pretty boring way to end games compared to like good long positional play.
Well, it's not like you can just randomly load up medivacs and boost in the opponent's base. Getting a good doom-drop or preventing it has a lot to do with maintaining map-control and having good army positioning.
Nah a lot of the time it's really just: Hey i am out of options, let's load up and pray!
and then you die because the opponent just attacks while 4 + medivacs worth of units are missing from your army...
Typically the guy who is on top of the enemy production first wins in these situations
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Dude that's all his games.
I don't understand anything to TvT, don't be too harsh on me was it his opener last game ? Maybe this was and I found it less surprising since it was Defender's
Sorry!
MaSa kinda made his name by playing wacky builds and somehow winning games off them.
np np mate MaSa is an interesting player indeed, not as offbeat as Has but definitely interesting
If you wanna know what I'm talking about, try checking out the Ender's Game BluRay Invitational during HotS where he just did some WILD ASS SHIT.
I google it, find a MaSa vs State series, click on the vid. MaSa goes reactor first and gets 4 reapers. It indeed looks wild ^^
On July 15 2017 00:08 [PkF] Wire wrote: isn't MaSa's opener rather... strange ?
Dude that's all his games.
I don't understand anything to TvT, don't be too harsh on me was it his opener last game ? Maybe this was and I found it less surprising since it was Defender's
Sorry!
MaSa kinda made his name by playing wacky builds and somehow winning games off them.
np np mate MaSa is an interesting player indeed, not as offbeat as Has but definitely interesting
If you wanna know what I'm talking about, try checking out the Ender's Game BluRay Invitational during HotS where he just did some WILD ASS SHIT.
I google it, find a MaSa vs State series, click on the vid. MaSa goes reactor first and gets 4 reapers. It indeed looks wild ^^
And now you know why his StarCraft is super watchable. And why he has fans.
This is a really tight game tho. Kelazhur has no economy left, but he has 2-2 vs 1-1 upgrades. Masa only has 1 mining base, but it has a PF so Kela will have a tough time of breaking it. Kela needs to end this game very fast or i think Masa got it.
On July 15 2017 00:03 Nebuchad wrote: My biggest problem with WoL TvT was the amount of people who have never played chess in their lives saying that it's exactly like chess.
Noone is saying that it is exactly like chess.
Pretty sure I can find at least 5 separate vods of Artosis saying it
Go for it. Yes people compare it to chess, but usually you compare things which aren't "exactly the same"
Okay, so let me amend that. It has barely anything in common with chess.
I mean obviously a round based game like chess with perfect information is very different from a real time game with imperfect information. But in comparison to the other matchups TvT felt the most like this round based game trying to control space, etc. I mean you could compare it to go and that might be better, but chess is the western game so there is that.
PvP is the closest (still far away obviously). Any protoss match-up requires positioning and space control, and more generally the match-up that requires the least mechanical skill is always going to be closer to chess than the one who requires the most.
Pig : "Snute's building another roach warren because he think he'll loose the one he has in the wall !" *10 seconds pass* Feardragon : "Snute lost his roach warren ! He won't be able to reinforce anymore !"
On July 15 2017 02:37 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I think people overrated Neeb's recent PvP, I think it's his worst matchup this year.
He's still massively favored here though
He's not been at the level like last year where he could challenge Koreans but I don't think many foreigners have beaten him.
Of course, he's not weak in the matchup at all, he's just so good that his very good PvP is his weakest. Only foreigners he's lost PvP to recent are Showtime and Drogo in close series
Come on Probe! The guy played amazingly well and he should've have won. I don't understand his decision to do the stupid DT build twice. I would rather see him doing all-in stalkers + immortals or adepts in game 4. If you are gonna throw a game, play it like you mean it!
It's fucked up that you have to beat the best performing player in order to create the circumstances where you won't have to play against him next time. If Probe is in a form where he can 2-3 Neeb there's no way he couldn't beat 5 or 6 people in this Ro16
On July 15 2017 03:49 Nebuchad wrote: It's fucked up that you have to beat the best performing player in order to create the circumstances where you won't have to play against him next time. If Probe is in a form where he can 2-3 Neeb there's no way he couldn't beat 5 or 6 people in this Ro16
On July 15 2017 03:49 Nebuchad wrote: It's fucked up that you have to beat the best performing player in order to create the circumstances where you won't have to play against him next time. If Probe is in a form where he can 2-3 Neeb there's no way he couldn't beat 5 or 6 people in this Ro16
Yeah that's a fair criticism of the system. It doesn't really work that well when there are no possibilities to climb the ranking otherwise
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
That'd be lame, Neeb would always get first pick but he has no personality to make use of it
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
That'd be lame, Neeb would always get first pick but he has no personality to make use of it
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
That'd be lame, Neeb would always get first pick but he has no personality to make use of it
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
Time is the only thing that makes sense. Double elim adds like 2 extra days to the event.
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
That'd be lame, Neeb would always get first pick but he has no personality to make use of it
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
Time is the only thing that makes sense. Double elim adds like 2 extra days to the event.
Especially if we're running Bo5s instead of Bo3s.
And with LOTV being what it is, I think Bo5s makes more sense.
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
I would love to see group selections tbh, cmon blizzard that would be hype
That'd be lame, Neeb would always get first pick but he has no personality to make use of it
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
To say "it's just time" is a huge understatement. Having the Ro16 be a double elimination bracket would definitely extend the length of the tournament significantly no matter what, on top of requiring additional setup to allow for even more games to be played at the same time, more staff to oversee them, possibly more casters if they should have a B stream like the old MLGs did, and of course people will always bitch that this or that game wasn't shown etc. It can also be argued that since a double elimination format would necessitate the matches to be Bo3 until the semis/finals (once again for time and logistics reasons), that would cause more variance in the earlier stages of the playoffs.
There's a good reason why the vast majority of eSports tournaments don't do double elimination playoffs.
On July 15 2017 04:02 Elentos wrote: Here's the question, what has better odds to free us from the Major vs Neeb Ro8 curse, Major losing now or Major winning the event?
Zanster doesn't seem too hot these days, so probably Major winning the event
On July 15 2017 04:02 Elentos wrote: Here's the question, what has better odds to free us from the Major vs Neeb Ro8 curse, Major losing now or Major winning the event?
winning the event? Don't you mean winning vs neeb?
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
Time is the only thing that makes sense. Double elim adds like 2 extra days to the event.
You don't have to have every game on stage, you could have a B-stream
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
Time is the only thing that makes sense. Double elim adds like 2 extra days to the event.
You don't have to have every game on stage, you could have a B-stream
when you have a B-stream, ppl (like me) complain that shit is relegated to the B-stream.
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
Time is the only thing that makes sense. Double elim adds like 2 extra days to the event.
You don't have to have every game on stage, you could have a B-stream
This is still added logistic and monetary effort, and will most likely still add an extra day to the tournament (winners finals, losers final, grand final, all that stuff has to be on main stream).
On July 15 2017 04:02 Elentos wrote: Here's the question, what has better odds to free us from the Major vs Neeb Ro8 curse, Major losing now or Major winning the event?
On July 15 2017 03:52 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: I still kind of wish these DHs were double elim. Probe played well enough to go further against a different opponent
What's the actual reason it's group stage -> single elim? I thought it was just time.
To say "it's just time" is a huge understatement. Having the Ro16 be a double elimination bracket would definitely extend the length of the tournament significantly no matter what, on top of requiring additional setup to allow for even more games to be played at the same time, more staff to oversee them, possibly more casters if they should have a B stream like the old MLGs did, and of course people will always bitch that this or that game wasn't shown etc. It can also be argued that since a double elimination format would necessitate the matches to be Bo3 until the semis/finals (once again for time and logistics reasons), that would cause more variance in the earlier stages of the playoffs.
There's a good reason why the vast majority of eSports tournaments don't do double elimination playoffs.
"It's just time" was meant to mean the only argument was the time would be crazy. I definitely agree the logistics would be a nightmare.
On July 15 2017 04:20 Poopi wrote: Isn't this map shit for bio in TvZ?
In general I'd say so. The bio army loses value even faster than usual when going into the late-midgame. It's not bad when your opponent is essentially dead before reaching the midgame though.
On July 15 2017 04:20 Poopi wrote: Isn't this map shit for bio in TvZ?
It's better for bio than mech, especially if you can get into a good spot. Which is why you start with reapers.
Since when is 3rax reaper a thing again? I never stopped doing it, but it seems a bit bad, why do terrans all do it now?
Maps were bad for 3-rax reaper for a while, they're a bit better now. Players were also scared away by the nerf before realizing it wasn't that significant. Also there's a few new follow-ups like the 5-rax reaper (which aren't actually that good, but their existence forces zerg to react a bit differently).
On July 15 2017 04:24 Aocowns wrote: i love watching major play when hes performing like this, his mechanics (- army control) and multitasking are super impressive
On July 15 2017 04:24 Aocowns wrote: i love watching major play when hes performing like this, his mechanics (- army control) and multitasking are super impressive
He's good but by god his playstyle is boring.
boring???? since when did intense high pace play become boring
On July 15 2017 04:24 Aocowns wrote: i love watching major play when hes performing like this, his mechanics (- army control) and multitasking are super impressive
He's good but by god his playstyle is boring.
boring???? since when did intense high pace play become boring
When you've seen Naama, nothing else is interesting anymore + Show Spoiler +
On July 15 2017 04:24 Aocowns wrote: i love watching major play when hes performing like this, his mechanics (- army control) and multitasking are super impressive
He's good but by god his playstyle is boring.
boring???? since when did intense high pace play become boring
I just don't like standard Terran play I guess, it bores me. But to each their own
On July 15 2017 04:32 Charoisaur wrote: never saw such a fast 4th from a terran
I think Flash has to hold the record for the fastest 4th ever in SC2. I still remember back in that one KeSPA Cup, cross spawns on a 4-player map against soO, he went up to 4 bases super fast, then died because his army was like 2 tanks and 4 hellbats.
On July 15 2017 04:24 Aocowns wrote: i love watching major play when hes performing like this, his mechanics (- army control) and multitasking are super impressive
He's good but by god his playstyle is boring.
boring???? since when did intense high pace play become boring
I just don't like standard Terran play I guess, it bores me. But to each their own
Standard Terran play competently executed by a non-Korean is something else though
On July 15 2017 04:32 Charoisaur wrote: never saw such a fast 4th from a terran
I think Flash has to hold the record for the fastest 4th ever in SC2. I still remember back in that one KeSPA Cup, cross spawns on a 4-player map against soO, he went up to 4 bases super fast, then died because his army was like 2 tanks and 4 hellbats.
ah yeah I remember that game. Makes more sense to go for a quick 4th with mech though because you don't need to spend that many minerals on your army.
If Special loses there it would be super sad, because he is finally living up to the expectations (being a top foreigner close to KR level), but he always end up against someone just as good thus doesn't get the results he could hope for.
If Neeb wins, beats Kelazhur in the semis and Serral in the final, he will have beaten the exact same players that he beat to win Jönköping (plus Probe).
EPT
Starcraft | 
OGaming | 
TakeTV | 
StarLadder | 
Chinese Stream![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4567.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6798.jpg)
Serral vs 
Cloudy![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6277.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/967.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1771.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1996.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/6170.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/5971.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4919.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4100.jpg)
Kelazhur vs ![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/2834.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/4571.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/5875.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1173.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/5265.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EgXKKw6.jpg)
, not an old man.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pEkQAYt.png)
