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On January 13 2017 20:48 CynicalDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:47 Penev wrote:
Scarlett > Major > Elazer > Scarlett
Scarlett has best map score so out in second
Major same map score as Elazer but Major won their match so Major 3rd, Elazer 4th makes the most sense to me that's what I think.. so why is Elazer in 3rd place in their tables?
I heard Rotti just mentioning looking at map scores just for the matches the 3 players involved played against each other, so probably that. Liquipedia is still agreeing with us though
On January 13 2017 20:48 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:47 Penev wrote:
Scarlett > Major > Elazer > Scarlett
Scarlett has best map score so out in second
Major same map score as Elazer but Major won their match so Major 3rd, Elazer 4th makes the most sense to me According tp LP the Tie Breaker is as follow: 1. H2H 2. Map Score 3. Head to head results against other players in the group. And if you take this order, Elazer was better than Major. In the Three-way H2H, Scarlett has the best Mapscore, followed by Elazer and Major.
Yeah, that's what Rotti mentioned.
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On January 13 2017 20:34 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:31 Fango wrote:On January 13 2017 20:26 Musicus wrote:On January 13 2017 20:24 Fango wrote:On January 13 2017 20:19 Musicus wrote:
Pretty stupid that TY is first place with 8-4 vs the 9-2 from Showtime. Ty beat showtime so its completely fair. I know that, but still don't think it's fair, since Showtime performed better overall and this format should show who does the best vs all the opponents in the group first, instead of how 2 players did vs each other. Head to head should only come into play when two players haver the same map score imo. But this opinion is obviously subjective, so I can see your point of view. Well overall they both went 4-1 in series. I think this kind of tie should be a tie broken by head to head first, then map score if necessary (in this format its not). Plus both ty and showtime knew they had 1st/2nd in their groups. I doubt there performances on the last series will be amazing (normally players just troll or have fun when the score cant effect their place haha). So if TY had gone 2-1 in all his wins and had a 8-6 map score vs the 9-2 from Showtime, you still think that TY deserves first? Every map should count imo, 4-1 in matches is not equal 4-1 in matches, 2-0 is worth more than 2-1 and this also makes sure that every player gives his best even in the last series. Head to head should come after map score, it's standard and worked this way in other round robin tournaments like DH Winter etc. too.
map point does not count, match point does. Example: GSL code S group C
Match 1: SOS 0 - 2 Billowy
Deciding match: SOS 2 - 1 Billowy
and then SOS advances to the next round while Billowy is eliminated.
So overall SOS 2 - 3 Billowy in terms of map, according to you, Billowy is better and should have advanced over SOS.
NO, it doesn't work that way.
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On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement.
And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance?
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On January 13 2017 20:50 ParksonVN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:34 Musicus wrote:On January 13 2017 20:31 Fango wrote:On January 13 2017 20:26 Musicus wrote:On January 13 2017 20:24 Fango wrote:On January 13 2017 20:19 Musicus wrote:
Pretty stupid that TY is first place with 8-4 vs the 9-2 from Showtime. Ty beat showtime so its completely fair. I know that, but still don't think it's fair, since Showtime performed better overall and this format should show who does the best vs all the opponents in the group first, instead of how 2 players did vs each other. Head to head should only come into play when two players haver the same map score imo. But this opinion is obviously subjective, so I can see your point of view. Well overall they both went 4-1 in series. I think this kind of tie should be a tie broken by head to head first, then map score if necessary (in this format its not). Plus both ty and showtime knew they had 1st/2nd in their groups. I doubt there performances on the last series will be amazing (normally players just troll or have fun when the score cant effect their place haha). So if TY had gone 2-1 in all his wins and had a 8-6 map score vs the 9-2 from Showtime, you still think that TY deserves first? Every map should count imo, 4-1 in matches is not equal 4-1 in matches, 2-0 is worth more than 2-1 and this also makes sure that every player gives his best even in the last series. Head to head should come after map score, it's standard and worked this way in other round robin tournaments like DH Winter etc. too. map point does not count, match point does. Example: GSL code S group C Match 1: SOS 0 - 2 Billowy Deciding match: SOS 2 - 1 Billowy and then SOS advances to the next group while Billowy is eliminated. So overall SOS 2 - 3 Billowy in terms of map, according to you, Billowy is better and should have advanced over SOS. NO, it doesn't work that way.
We are talking about round robin and not GSL group format, you can't use GSL as an example.
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Italy3540 Posts
On January 13 2017 20:50 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:48 CynicalDeath wrote:On January 13 2017 20:47 Penev wrote:
Scarlett > Major > Elazer > Scarlett
Scarlett has best map score so out in second
Major same map score as Elazer but Major won their match so Major 3rd, Elazer 4th makes the most sense to me that's what I think.. so why is Elazer in 3rd place in their tables? I heard Rotti just mentioning looking at map scores just for the matches the 3 players involved played against each other, so probably that. Liquipedia is still agreeing with us though
...I edited LP so that's not a point 
ps. I'll change it to the official standings (ofc) but I really don't get it...
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On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance?
Elazer is in and Major is out.
H2H Map Score:
1. Scarlett 3:2
2. Elazer 3:3
3. Major 2:3
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On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance?
Head to Head is a 3 way tie
but head to head map score is
Scarlett 3:2
Elazer 3-3
Major 2-3
global does not matter then
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On January 13 2017 20:52 CynicalDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:50 Penev wrote:On January 13 2017 20:48 CynicalDeath wrote:On January 13 2017 20:47 Penev wrote:
Scarlett > Major > Elazer > Scarlett
Scarlett has best map score so out in second
Major same map score as Elazer but Major won their match so Major 3rd, Elazer 4th makes the most sense to me that's what I think.. so why is Elazer in 3rd place in their tables? I heard Rotti just mentioning looking at map scores just for the matches the 3 players involved played against each other, so probably that. Liquipedia is still agreeing with us though ...I edited LP so that's not a point ps. I'll change it to the official standings (ofc) but I really don't get it...
Oh hehe, I see the lp icon yeah
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Italy3540 Posts
On January 13 2017 20:52 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance? Elazer is in and Major is out. H2H Map Score: 1. Scarlett 3:2 2. Elazer 3:3 3. Major 2:3
...ok, that makes sense... I do not agree with this method but at least it has some sense...
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On January 13 2017 20:52 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance? Elazer is in and Major is out. H2H Map Score: 1. Scarlett 3:2 2. Elazer 3:3 3. Major 2:3
Yes; thats what it be like
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noooo, so showtime has to play elazer again... fuuuuuuuuuuuuck
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On January 13 2017 20:52 Swisslink wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance? Elazer is in and Major is out. H2H Map Score: 1. Scarlett 3:2 2. Elazer 3:3 3. Major 2:3
I agree it should be that way, but will it? Did Rotti confirm on stream? I missed the end.
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On January 13 2017 20:56 traitortotzeench wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:52 Swisslink wrote:On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance? Elazer is in and Major is out. H2H Map Score: 1. Scarlett 3:2 2. Elazer 3:3 3. Major 2:3 I agree it should be that way, but will it? Did Rotti confirm on stream? I missed the end.
he tweeted now that it's confirmed
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On January 13 2017 20:55 CynicalDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:52 Swisslink wrote:On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance? Elazer is in and Major is out. H2H Map Score: 1. Scarlett 3:2 2. Elazer 3:3 3. Major 2:3 ...ok, that makes sense... I do not agree with this method but at least it has some sense...
Me neither, overall map score first and in case of ties head to head.
Then if still tied you can look at map scores only involving tied players to have an extra buffer before having to do tie breakers.
Oh well..
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If they break the 3-way-tie with mutual map scores first, that breaks out MajOr. Now we have a 2-way-tie between Elazer and Scarlett, which goes in favor of Elazer, so Elazer should be 2nd in the group.
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On January 13 2017 20:58 Penev wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:55 CynicalDeath wrote:On January 13 2017 20:52 Swisslink wrote:On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance? Elazer is in and Major is out. H2H Map Score: 1. Scarlett 3:2 2. Elazer 3:3 3. Major 2:3 ...ok, that makes sense... I do not agree with this method but at least it has some sense... Me neither, overall map score first and in case of ties head to head. Then if still tied you can look at map scores only involving tied players to have an extra buffer before having to do tie breakers. Oh well..
I agree, but it's more important that they stick to the rules and hopefully they will count the overall map score first in the future.
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On January 13 2017 20:51 Musicus wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:50 ParksonVN wrote:On January 13 2017 20:34 Musicus wrote:On January 13 2017 20:31 Fango wrote:On January 13 2017 20:26 Musicus wrote:On January 13 2017 20:24 Fango wrote:On January 13 2017 20:19 Musicus wrote:
Pretty stupid that TY is first place with 8-4 vs the 9-2 from Showtime. Ty beat showtime so its completely fair. I know that, but still don't think it's fair, since Showtime performed better overall and this format should show who does the best vs all the opponents in the group first, instead of how 2 players did vs each other. Head to head should only come into play when two players haver the same map score imo. But this opinion is obviously subjective, so I can see your point of view. Well overall they both went 4-1 in series. I think this kind of tie should be a tie broken by head to head first, then map score if necessary (in this format its not). Plus both ty and showtime knew they had 1st/2nd in their groups. I doubt there performances on the last series will be amazing (normally players just troll or have fun when the score cant effect their place haha). So if TY had gone 2-1 in all his wins and had a 8-6 map score vs the 9-2 from Showtime, you still think that TY deserves first? Every map should count imo, 4-1 in matches is not equal 4-1 in matches, 2-0 is worth more than 2-1 and this also makes sure that every player gives his best even in the last series. Head to head should come after map score, it's standard and worked this way in other round robin tournaments like DH Winter etc. too. map point does not count, match point does. Example: GSL code S group C Match 1: SOS 0 - 2 Billowy Deciding match: SOS 2 - 1 Billowy and then SOS advances to the next group while Billowy is eliminated. So overall SOS 2 - 3 Billowy in terms of map, according to you, Billowy is better and should have advanced over SOS. NO, it doesn't work that way. We are talking about round robin and not GSL group format, you can't use GSL as an example.
No, I'm just saying, whether it's GSL format or round robin format. They always aim to pick the best players to advance, in a RTS game, one map win is not clearly a win overall, that's why we have bo3 and bo5 or even bo7. And as the result shown, TY 4-1, Showtime 4-1 and Showtime lost against TY, so TY is better and should get out as 1st place.
The same way with football, at the end of the tournament, if 2 clubs are equal in point, which club won head to head will become the champion.
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The same way with football, at the end of the tournament, if 2 clubs are equal in point, which club won head to head will become the champion.
that's not always the case. in spain yes, in germany no for example
every league has it's own rules
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On January 13 2017 20:55 CynicalDeath wrote:Show nested quote +On January 13 2017 20:52 Swisslink wrote:On January 13 2017 20:51 traitortotzeench wrote:On January 13 2017 20:50 TaKeTV wrote:
Tiebreaker rules are
Head to Head
Head to Head Map Score
Global Map Score
Admin statement. And what exactly does that mean in this specific 3 way circumstance? Elazer is in and Major is out. H2H Map Score: 1. Scarlett 3:2 2. Elazer 3:3 3. Major 2:3 ...ok, that makes sense... I do not agree with this method but at least it has some sense...
I would argue in a tournament with such a huge skill gap, that's actually the best option, to be honest. If you break a tie solely by looking at the H2H, the results against the "Top players" (who might have secured his spot in the next round before the group stage ends and therefore their last games didn't matter anymore) and the "lowest players" (who might be eliminated before the group stage ends and therefore their last games didn't matter anymore) matter less than the games against each other. (which all have to fight until the very end)
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EPT
