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On October 30 2016 07:58 juicyjames wrote:
Any recommended matches?
All of showtimes matches are recommended.
Also Solar's games should be watched. They were fun and nailbiters.
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On October 30 2016 08:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Look! It's you! Saying that even if the currently best players of all three races would say something, you still woudn't believe them because your own truth is better
truth? 
ya, players never lie or fix games or turn a blind eye to game-fixing or anything like that.
hackers liek testie are never invited to BlizzCon to get smashed by non-hackers.
"and every where that mary went.. the lamb was sure to go..."
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On October 30 2016 08:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 07:30 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 07:24 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:On October 30 2016 07:20 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 07:18 rednusa wrote:On October 30 2016 06:30 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Solid logic. It not like Proleague themselves stated lack of sponsors and matchfixing was the reason for it stopping. It's not like the korean scene was shrinking years before the new WCS changes of 2016. The fact is Blizzard gave a lot of money to Korea this year and earlier years. And next year they will still fund GSL. This argument that they deliberately killed it is absurd and only based on your own rage that you want to channel somewhere so you choose Blizzard as a scapegoat. I am not aware of the facts surround funding. But is it the case that since 2013, Blizzard have 100% funded the prize pools for GSL/SSL? I say 2012 because this is when GSL started losing its main sponsors (i.e. Intel, Ericsson, LG, Pepsi, Hot6ix). And in 2010/11/12, were Blizzard contributing anything to the prize pool for GSL? I do wonder whether Blizzard forced the GSL to give up its independent sponsors or rather Blizzard stepped in to save the GSL when it started losing its sponsors. On October 30 2016 06:32 Musicus wrote:
I think 2017 will look a lot like 2012, and don't think that's the end of the world. But in 2012, we had 9 established teams with team houses. Is there really the financial backing for this to happen again? I get the impression there was more independent money being pumped into the Korean sc2 scene in the early years that dried up when there was no return on investment. Then after that, KeSPA teams came along and saved the day with their existing sponsorships from the broodwar era. Who will save the day this time? This one sound bite really annoys. 'Blizzcon were giving tons of money to the Korean scene and only propping it up'. Yea? So they weren't doing the exact same for the foreign WCS scene at the same time? Region-lock supporters at their finest. Why don't you take your Donald-Trump-I-am-never-wrong logic and fuck off to some other site then. You clearly have nothing positive to add here neither do you care about the Starcraft scene. But yes Blizzard supported the entire scene, both Korea and WCS. They supported a hell of a lot which is why they don't deserve flak for reportedly 'killing the scene' Lol angry much? So because I'm against Region-lock I don't care about the scene? There's the problem isn't it, too many people care about the 'scene' and not the players who play in it. I never once said they killed the scene either? Don't know where you're getting this from. Well if you really want to know Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 04:21 Biscuittzz wrote:
Showtime's win is a brilliant achievement. However, Im quite annoyed about the format this year of Blizzcon. If we look past the fact that the 8 WCS Circuit spots are effectively welfare spots, my biggest gripe is with the group stage Bo3.
Blizzcon has been a Ro16 Bo5 since 2013 yet this year, the year when foreigners are present, the format is changed to a group stage Bo3. It's well known that a foreigner has a much better chance of beating a Korean when it's Bo3 rather than a Bo5 and also having a second chance in the losers match.
Is it too much tinfoil hat thinking or have Blizz really done all they can to give every advantage to foreigners this year? Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 04:27 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 04:24 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 04:21 Biscuittzz wrote:
Showtime's win is a brilliant achievement. However, Im quite annoyed about the format this year of Blizzcon. If we look past the fact that the 8 WCS Circuit spots are effectively welfare spots, my biggest gripe is with the group stage Bo3.
Blizzcon has been a Ro16 Bo5 since 2013 yet this year, the year when foreigners are present, the format is changed to a group stage Bo3. It's well known that a foreigner has a much better chance of beating a Korean when it's Bo3 rather than a Bo5 and also having a second chance in the losers match.
Is it too much tinfoil hat thinking or have Blizz really done all they can to give every advantage to foreigners this year? double elim bo3 > single elim bo5 imo obviously double elim bo5 would be the dream But your suggestion that Blizz made this format to help foreigners is stupid imo, this is just the standard GSL format, no one is more used to this than the Koreans. Yes it's standard GSL format, but it's been standard GSL format for years now. Why have Blizz suddenly decided to change to this format when the previous 3 years where Bo5? Also coincides with the extra inclusive of foreigners. I do think they made an effort to stack the odds in their favour. Look! It's you! saying Blizzard rigged the tournament for foreigners Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 04:31 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 04:28 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 04:27 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 04:24 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 04:21 Biscuittzz wrote:
Showtime's win is a brilliant achievement. However, Im quite annoyed about the format this year of Blizzcon. If we look past the fact that the 8 WCS Circuit spots are effectively welfare spots, my biggest gripe is with the group stage Bo3.
Blizzcon has been a Ro16 Bo5 since 2013 yet this year, the year when foreigners are present, the format is changed to a group stage Bo3. It's well known that a foreigner has a much better chance of beating a Korean when it's Bo3 rather than a Bo5 and also having a second chance in the losers match.
Is it too much tinfoil hat thinking or have Blizz really done all they can to give every advantage to foreigners this year? double elim bo3 > single elim bo5 imo obviously double elim bo5 would be the dream But your suggestion that Blizz made this format to help foreigners is stupid imo, this is just the standard GSL format, no one is more used to this than the Koreans. Yes it's standard GSL format, but it's been standard GSL format for years now. Why have Blizz suddenly decided to change to this format when the previous 3 years where Bo5? Also coincides with the extra inclusive of foreigners. I do think they made an effort to stack the odds in their favour. The change to double elim was requested by players and viewers alike, because it's better than double elim. I don't remember suggesting that :/ Think I'll remain cynical. Look! It's you! denying someone informing you of the real reason but choosing to believe your weird conspiracy Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 05:47 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 05:42 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 05:36 Musicus wrote:
Basically I agree with TLO.
garbage. ling bane muta vs bio mine in HotS was way more multitasking intensive than everything we see in LotV and the top players still barely made any mistakes. something like Life vs Dream is not comparable to the things we see in LotV. Wouldn't listen to anything TLO says anymore really. He's a mid tier GM nowadays who's unfortunately been left behind in the pro scene. I always wonder how he warrants a contract from TL when he has achieved nothing in years. Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 05:55 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 05:50 JimmyJRaynor wrote:
TLO has an interest in claiming the skill level is much higher. He is being paid by Blizzard. If he said the skill level declined it would hit reddit and blow up and be every where. TLO kinda has to say the skill level is higher or he could say nothing at all.
That said, TLO might be right... just saying that there are several factors that make it really, really tough for him to say the top level of play is getting worse.
it will eventually get worse and i don't know if we'll ever hear a caster screaming at BlizzCon 2021
"4 years ago he could've easily micro-ed his way out of this situation but because of a declining income he is spending more time studying medicine and interning at a hospital than playing SC2 because he knows this game is set to die soon!!!" He has to stay relevant some how I guess. Being highlights VOD editor backstage is a big come down for someone claiming to be a progamer. Look! It's you! 'Caring' about players Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 06:18 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:14 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 06:13 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 06:03 Musicus wrote:On October 30 2016 05:59 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 05:56 Kovzirg wrote:On October 30 2016 05:47 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 05:42 Charoisaur wrote:garbage. ling bane muta vs bio mine in HotS was way more multitasking intensive than everything we see in LotV and the top players still barely made any mistakes. something like Life vs Dream is not comparable to the things we see in LotV. Wouldn't listen to anything TLO says anymore really. He's a mid tier GM nowadays who's unfortunately been left behind in the pro scene. I always wonder how he warrants a contract from TL when he has achieved nothing in years. So stuchiu knows more about gameplay than TLO does? ROFL. And what part of my post said that? 2/10 What I said that TLO himself doesn't really have much to say about top-tier gameplay as he isn't involved in it himself. But he still does know more about whether the game has become harder than WoL and HotS than Stuchiu or anybody in this thread. He also knows better if players have gotten better or worse (since he actually plays against them). Also if Dark, Zest and TY agreed with TLO would you believe him then? Edit: He will ask them btw. Yea because geting players to admit that they're worse is like asking turkeys to vote for Christmas. When this year has TLO played against Koreans? I know he's played a fair few foreigners. I still watch his series vs MVP when he said that he could win. Fine line between optimism and delusion. It's about the Korean scene in general, not just them. Since you don't believe TLO, since he doesn not compete against Koreans, well TY, Dark and Zest do. But that's my point, asking the above players to comment on their own play or the Korean scenes play isn't going to really reveal anything. They're still not gonna hang anyone out to dry. Would be bad PR. Look! It's you! Saying that even if the currently best players of all three races would say something, you still woudn't believe them because your own truth is better
Yep I still stand by the fact that I believe that Blizz have stacked the odds in favour of foreigners this year, through blizzcon places and playoffs format.
Real reason? Nope, someone countered with their opinion which they failed to back up with any evidence, so I chose to remain with my own opinion which also is backed up by very little evidence admittedly.
So me criticising a player means I don't care? Since when did the players become special snowflakes who aren't allowed to be called out or criticised?
Your last one is completely out of context.......Multiple posters also agree with me here. They will never badmouth themselves or their scene, this goes for Koreans and Foreigners alike and that's a fact. Not only a fact in this scene but in all sports. Players barely ever bad mouth each other.
You seem to have something against me, I dunno why. Maybe have a better argument next time.
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On October 30 2016 08:04 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:02 Hider wrote:It is not even (only) about quantity of practice, quality (lvl of competition, aka player talent pool actually being in the scene, motivation, etc) is a main factor as well. Still, it's apparent that you are avoiding the question. So I give you another that fits what you say above: Korean players got worse, either because they didn't practice enough or because their practice partners were bad. Yes/No? Yes, also there are fewer top players because of all the retirements.
Flash was definitely worse when he just started playing BW again. Whether he is better now depends on how much he has practiced effectively but you definitely lose alot in terms rustiness if you haven't played for 1½ years.
But he is probably better now than he was in 2010, and yes everyone else who practicied bw while flash was pracitcising sc2 are improved a ton in the proces/catched up.
I definitely didn't expect him to be super dominant right after he returned.
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On October 30 2016 08:08 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:
The lol song is awful btw, wow.
At least it looks cool i guess Still avoiding the question. Also failed to support your previous claims on me making everything black and white. Also failed to provide support on why skillcap would matter. But you are just gonna make up (wrong) statements (lies) and try to get away with it?
Yes exactly, if that means that this farce ends now then let's define it as that.
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i salute your will of discussion and keeping this thread alive 2 hours after the end of the games
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On October 30 2016 08:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Look! It's you! Saying that even if the currently best players of all three races would say something, you still woudn't believe them because your own truth is better truth? ya, players never lie or fix games or turn a blind eye to game-fixing or anything like that. hackers liek testie are never invited to BlizzCon to get smashed by non-hackers. "and every where that mary went.. the lamb was sure to go..."
Didn't you hear?? When players are asked an intimate or possibly revealing question they will tell you the 100% unadulterated truth and nothing else. /s
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On October 30 2016 08:13 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:04 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 08:02 Hider wrote:It is not even (only) about quantity of practice, quality (lvl of competition, aka player talent pool actually being in the scene, motivation, etc) is a main factor as well. Still, it's apparent that you are avoiding the question. So I give you another that fits what you say above: Korean players got worse, either because they didn't practice enough or because their practice partners were bad. Yes/No? Yes, also there are fewer top players because of all the retirements. Flash was definitely worse when he just started playing BW again. Whether he is better now depends on how much he has practiced effectively but you definitely lose alot in terms rustiness if you haven't played for 1½ years. But he is probably better now than he was in 2010, and yes everyone else who practicied bw while flash was pracitcising sc2 are improved a ton in the proces/catched up. I definitely didn't expect him to be super dominant right after he returned.
alright, I've heard it all.
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On October 30 2016 08:14 The_Red_Viper wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:08 Hider wrote:On October 30 2016 08:05 The_Red_Viper wrote:
The lol song is awful btw, wow.
At least it looks cool i guess Still avoiding the question. Also failed to support your previous claims on me making everything black and white. Also failed to provide support on why skillcap would matter. But you are just gonna make up (wrong) statements (lies) and try to get away with it? Yes exactly, if that means that this farce ends now then let's define it as that.
It would end faster if you didn't make random statements about me, but instead directly presented your reasons with arguments to support it. And when I respond you respond directly to what I am saying.
And when I post random videos as a joke you don't try to make it out as if that video is somehow a proof of infinitive skillcap and that it implies I am wrong. (I am honestly curious what you were talking about here).
Or alternatively you could have opted to not participate in the discussion. Pretty sure I was mainly talking about Charisaur, Thorin and Stuchiu before you started responding with your random claims. You were - at various points - baiting me into responding.
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On October 30 2016 08:17 Charoisaur wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:13 Hider wrote:On October 30 2016 08:04 Charoisaur wrote:On October 30 2016 08:02 Hider wrote:It is not even (only) about quantity of practice, quality (lvl of competition, aka player talent pool actually being in the scene, motivation, etc) is a main factor as well. Still, it's apparent that you are avoiding the question. So I give you another that fits what you say above: Korean players got worse, either because they didn't practice enough or because their practice partners were bad. Yes/No? Yes, also there are fewer top players because of all the retirements. Flash was definitely worse when he just started playing BW again. Whether he is better now depends on how much he has practiced effectively but you definitely lose alot in terms rustiness if you haven't played for 1½ years. But he is probably better now than he was in 2010, and yes everyone else who practicied bw while flash was pracitcising sc2 are improved a ton in the proces/catched up. I definitely didn't expect him to be super dominant right after he returned. alright, I've heard it all.
Yeh the day I heard you get better after you practice more also blew my mind. It's so weird to think that somehow other people can get better at the same time so you look relatively worse. It's a tough concept to understand though for some people.
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On October 30 2016 08:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yes you are right Hider
you are also right about ignite. It's not a good song.
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On October 30 2016 08:17 Biscuittzz wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 30 2016 08:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Look! It's you! Saying that even if the currently best players of all three races would say something, you still woudn't believe them because your own truth is better truth? ya, players never lie or fix games or turn a blind eye to game-fixing or anything like that. hackers liek testie are never invited to BlizzCon to get smashed by non-hackers. "and every where that mary went.. the lamb was sure to go..." Didn't you hear?? When players are asked an intimate or possibly revealing question they will tell you the 100% unadulterated truth and nothing else. /s
this is why i ask questions of Artosis that basically force him to say somethign negative about SC2.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/512518-cyan-interviews-talking-to-esports-professionals?page=2#28
credit to Cyan for asking the question.
i love SC2.. its my favourite game.. but that doesn't mean i'm delusional about where the RTS genre is headed or that everything Blizzard does is always the greatest thing ever.
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On October 30 2016 08:22 Hider wrote:you are also right about ignite. It's not a good song.
i found the concept really good
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My gripe is people constantly thinking that everything is all good and rosey and labelling others as negative when they bring up hard truths.
Nothing wrong with talking about these hard truths IMO. Ignoring it wont make it go away.
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well the RTS genre is getting smashed by moba and fps and this is not new, as harsh as it may sound a lot of people figured it out already
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On October 30 2016 08:24 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:22 Hider wrote:On October 30 2016 08:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yes you are right Hider you are also right about ignite. It's not a good song. i found the concept really good
I will now spend 2 hours discussing why its not a good concept.
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On October 30 2016 08:28 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:24 Makro wrote:On October 30 2016 08:22 Hider wrote:On October 30 2016 08:21 The_Red_Viper wrote:
Yes you are right Hider you are also right about ignite. It's not a good song. i found the concept really good I will now spend 2 hours discussing why its not a good concept.
(again): "Time spent arguing is, oddly enough, almost never wasted."
We could discuss if the "almost" exception should be applied for this potential topic though 
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On October 30 2016 08:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:17 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 08:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 30 2016 08:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Look! It's you! Saying that even if the currently best players of all three races would say something, you still woudn't believe them because your own truth is better truth? ya, players never lie or fix games or turn a blind eye to game-fixing or anything like that. hackers liek testie are never invited to BlizzCon to get smashed by non-hackers. "and every where that mary went.. the lamb was sure to go..." Didn't you hear?? When players are asked an intimate or possibly revealing question they will tell you the 100% unadulterated truth and nothing else. /s this is why i ask questions of Artosis that basically force him to say somethign negative about SC2. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/512518-cyan-interviews-talking-to-esports-professionals?page=2#28credit to Cyan for asking the question. i love SC2.. its my favourite game.. but that doesn't mean i'm delusional about where the RTS genre is headed or that everything Blizzard does is always the greatest thing ever.
What did he answer? Something about mech?
Actually, back when Sc2 was released, Artosis was a much more "no bullshit" guy and would complain alot about balance.
Back then I was pretty annoyed by his lack of objectivity so I "baited" him in a comment and he responded in a way (he actually was on TL in 2010) that apparently was too much for the TL mods and thus got warned for it.
Those were the days. Right now he has become so "politically correct", which makes him boring.
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On October 30 2016 08:34 Hider wrote:Show nested quote +On October 30 2016 08:22 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 30 2016 08:17 Biscuittzz wrote:On October 30 2016 08:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On October 30 2016 08:04 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
Look! It's you! Saying that even if the currently best players of all three races would say something, you still woudn't believe them because your own truth is better truth? ya, players never lie or fix games or turn a blind eye to game-fixing or anything like that. hackers liek testie are never invited to BlizzCon to get smashed by non-hackers. "and every where that mary went.. the lamb was sure to go..." Didn't you hear?? When players are asked an intimate or possibly revealing question they will tell you the 100% unadulterated truth and nothing else. /s this is why i ask questions of Artosis that basically force him to say somethign negative about SC2. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/starcraft-2/512518-cyan-interviews-talking-to-esports-professionals?page=2#28credit to Cyan for asking the question. i love SC2.. its my favourite game.. but that doesn't mean i'm delusional about where the RTS genre is headed or that everything Blizzard does is always the greatest thing ever. What did he answer? Something about mech? Actually, back when Sc2 was released, Artosis was a much more "no bullshit" guy and would complain alot about balance. Back then I was pretty annoyed by his lack of objectivity so I "baited" him in a comment and he responded (he actually was on TL in 2010) and said something that to me that apparently was too much for the TL mods and those got warned for it. Those were the days. Right now he has become so "politically correct", which makes him boring.
That's what happens unfortunately when you're on the blizz payroll. Smart enough not to bite the hand that feeds. Still he's not yet as bad as some other shills.....sorry I meant casters.
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EPT
