On August 28 2015 04:42 rotta wrote: So sad about China, I'm pretty sure iA's record will be better than the others' combined. XiGua is kind of like their Sen, consistently inconsistent.
I'm really not, hopefully this brutal rout will teach them to improve for next time. Also at least Sen won a premier tournament.
On August 28 2015 04:29 KingAlphard wrote: I don't think I want to play sc2 anymore after this series. Sorry but if this game worked properly hitman wouldn't even qualify for challenger.
The game is not about a executing your offensive strategy properly? I'm pretty sure the idea here is to kill all the structures not race to get 70 workers and mine out the map.
It´s more about the fact that theres one race that allows you to succeed with only early game bullshit. There´s no successful pure cheese zerg´s or terrans anywhere near the top.
Zerg.. well.. Zerg is zerg haha.
Are we pretending like roach/bane all-ins never existed? Zerg has strong cheese as well.
the funny thing is succeeding with cheese is actually much MORE impressive when you're a known cheeser. hitman executes incredibly well to play through his opponent's defensive mindset and still win
On August 28 2015 04:29 KingAlphard wrote: I don't think I want to play sc2 anymore after this series. Sorry but if this game worked properly hitman wouldn't even qualify for challenger.
The game is not about a executing your offensive strategy properly? I'm pretty sure the idea here is to kill all the structures not race to get 70 workers and mine out the map.
It´s more about the fact that theres one race that allows you to succeed with only early game bullshit. There´s no successful pure cheese zerg´s or terrans anywhere near the top.
Bets?
Yeah, that one game is an example of Mvp's entire playstyle.
It wasn't presented as an example of Mvp's playstyle. It was presented to counter the argument that only one race allows you to succeed with early game bullshit
On August 28 2015 04:33 kaykoose wrote: It's dumb that people think there is a "right" way to play...
the Artosis/Idra mentality
The "I lost because you don't know how to play". I love it.
i tuned into idras stream once ever and i immediately saw him type, verbatim:
"the only reason you're winning is because you're doing something that's bad and i thought you would do something a good player would do"
Jokes aside, there is a lot of truth in that.
There is absolutely no truth. If you are good at SC you are aware you are playing with limited information and you are trying to fill in certain blanks. You need to be aware of where the blanks exist. Often times they are more important than what you know. If you fill in blanks and present them to yourself as a certainty that is a poor mindset. What you do NOT know is often times more important than what you DO know. IdrA's issue was constantly thinking he was playing with a full picture of the game state at all points in time. But you are not. When he read the situation correctly yes he was a very good mechanical player who could defeat most. But he was far from the best at reading game state and interpreting the situation accurately which was ultimately his downfall. Worst part is he didn't realize that was a major problem.
Idra thought it too much, but there definitely is a fair chance of many games on ladder being lost at the highest level simply because your opponent did something stupid and threw your read off. ZvZ, opponent forgot an overlord and his ling flood is late. You know the proper timing for a ling flood and just go into drones with minimal defense because there was no indication. Ling flood comes at a late and bad timing and voila, you just got autismed
On August 28 2015 04:29 KingAlphard wrote: I don't think I want to play sc2 anymore after this series. Sorry but if this game worked properly hitman wouldn't even qualify for challenger.
The game is not about a executing your offensive strategy properly? I'm pretty sure the idea here is to kill all the structures not race to get 70 workers and mine out the map.
It´s more about the fact that theres one race that allows you to succeed with only early game bullshit. There´s no successful pure cheese zerg´s or terrans anywhere near the top.
Yeah, that one game is an example of Mvp's entire playstyle.
It wasn't presented as an example of Mvp's playstyle. It was presented to counter the argument that only one race allows you to succeed with early game bullshit
I guess the key part would be consistently beating "better" opponents and actually kinda making a career out of it
On August 28 2015 04:33 kaykoose wrote: It's dumb that people think there is a "right" way to play...
the Artosis/Idra mentality
The "I lost because you don't know how to play". I love it.
i tuned into idras stream once ever and i immediately saw him type, verbatim:
"the only reason you're winning is because you're doing something that's bad and i thought you would do something a good player would do"
Jokes aside, there is a lot of truth in that.
There is absolutely no truth. If you are good at SC you are aware you are playing with limited information and you are trying to fill in certain blanks. You need to be aware of where the blanks exist. Often times they are more important than what you know. If you fill in blanks and present them to yourself as a certainty that is a poor mindset. What you do NOT know is often times more important than what you DO know. IdrA's issue was constantly thinking he was playing with a full picture of the game state at all points in time. But you are not. When he read the situation correctly yes he was a very good mechanical player who could defeat most. But he was far from the best at reading game state and interpreting the situation accurately which was ultimately his downfall. Worst part is he didn't realize that was a major problem.
Idra thought it too much, but there definitely is a fair chance of many games on ladder being lost at the highest level simply because your opponent did something stupid and threw your read off. ZvZ, opponent forgot an overlord and his ling flood is late. You know the proper timing for a ling flood and just go into drones with minimal defense because there was no indication. Ling flood comes at a late and bad timing and voila, you just got autismed
there's no proper timing for a ling flood. many players bank lings and do them later specifically to mindgame, and it works. that's why you check drone counts with ling pokes and play safe unless you want to die to attacks
On August 28 2015 04:33 kaykoose wrote: It's dumb that people think there is a "right" way to play...
the Artosis/Idra mentality
The "I lost because you don't know how to play". I love it.
i tuned into idras stream once ever and i immediately saw him type, verbatim:
"the only reason you're winning is because you're doing something that's bad and i thought you would do something a good player would do"
Jokes aside, there is a lot of truth in that.
There is absolutely no truth. If you are good at SC you are aware you are playing with limited information and you are trying to fill in certain blanks. You need to be aware of where the blanks exist. Often times they are more important than what you know. If you fill in blanks and present them to yourself as a certainty that is a poor mindset. What you do NOT know is often times more important than what you DO know. IdrA's issue was constantly thinking he was playing with a full picture of the game state at all points in time. But you are not. When he read the situation correctly yes he was a very good mechanical player who could defeat most. But he was far from the best at reading game state and interpreting the situation accurately which was ultimately his downfall. Worst part is he didn't realize that was a major problem.
Idra thought it too much, but there definitely is a fair chance of many games on ladder being lost at the highest level simply because your opponent did something stupid and threw your read off. ZvZ, opponent forgot an overlord and his ling flood is late. You know the proper timing for a ling flood and just go into drones with minimal defense because there was no indication. Ling flood comes at a late and bad timing and voila, you just got autismed
there's no proper timing for a ling flood. many players bank lings and do them later specifically to mindgame, and it works. that's why you check drone counts with ling pokes and play safe unless you want to die to attacks
Yeah I guess, was just the first type of example that came to mind. Either way, shit like that does happen, and plenty more players have framed it like that besides Idra
On August 28 2015 04:33 kaykoose wrote: It's dumb that people think there is a "right" way to play...
the Artosis/Idra mentality
The "I lost because you don't know how to play". I love it.
i tuned into idras stream once ever and i immediately saw him type, verbatim:
"the only reason you're winning is because you're doing something that's bad and i thought you would do something a good player would do"
Jokes aside, there is a lot of truth in that.
There is absolutely no truth. If you are good at SC you are aware you are playing with limited information and you are trying to fill in certain blanks. You need to be aware of where the blanks exist. Often times they are more important than what you know. If you fill in blanks and present them to yourself as a certainty that is a poor mindset. What you do NOT know is often times more important than what you DO know. IdrA's issue was constantly thinking he was playing with a full picture of the game state at all points in time. But you are not. When he read the situation correctly yes he was a very good mechanical player who could defeat most. But he was far from the best at reading game state and interpreting the situation accurately which was ultimately his downfall. Worst part is he didn't realize that was a major problem.
Idra thought it too much, but there definitely is a fair chance of many games on ladder being lost at the highest level simply because your opponent did something stupid and threw your read off. ZvZ, opponent forgot an overlord and his ling flood is late. You know the proper timing for a ling flood and just go into drones with minimal defense because there was no indication. Ling flood comes at a late and bad timing and voila, you just got autismed
I feel if delayed timing attacks were an actual thing you'd probably see them more often. Yes it is true doing non-standard things on the ladder can get you wins but since they're coming later they are naturally weaker and rely only on your opponent not reading the situation properly. Which means your opponent messed up and lost. If you see larvae floating and a drone undersaturation the situation should be pretty clear. But if you can't see that information and try to fill in the blank with meta knowledge that is a blank you need to be aware you're filling in with limited information and may not be correct.
On August 28 2015 04:33 kaykoose wrote: It's dumb that people think there is a "right" way to play...
the Artosis/Idra mentality
The "I lost because you don't know how to play". I love it.
i tuned into idras stream once ever and i immediately saw him type, verbatim:
"the only reason you're winning is because you're doing something that's bad and i thought you would do something a good player would do"
Jokes aside, there is a lot of truth in that.
There is absolutely no truth. If you are good at SC you are aware you are playing with limited information and you are trying to fill in certain blanks. You need to be aware of where the blanks exist. Often times they are more important than what you know. If you fill in blanks and present them to yourself as a certainty that is a poor mindset. What you do NOT know is often times more important than what you DO know. IdrA's issue was constantly thinking he was playing with a full picture of the game state at all points in time. But you are not. When he read the situation correctly yes he was a very good mechanical player who could defeat most. But he was far from the best at reading game state and interpreting the situation accurately which was ultimately his downfall. Worst part is he didn't realize that was a major problem.
Idra thought it too much, but there definitely is a fair chance of many games on ladder being lost at the highest level simply because your opponent did something stupid and threw your read off. ZvZ, opponent forgot an overlord and his ling flood is late. You know the proper timing for a ling flood and just go into drones with minimal defense because there was no indication. Ling flood comes at a late and bad timing and voila, you just got autismed
there's no proper timing for a ling flood. many players bank lings and do them later specifically to mindgame, and it works. that's why you check drone counts with ling pokes and play safe unless you want to die to attacks
Yeah I guess, was just the first type of example that came to mind. Either way, shit like that does happen, and plenty more players have framed it like that besides Idra
it illustrates the counterpoint though. you have to be aware of potential kinks in your opponent's play that will throw you off, it's a huge part of tier 1 korean play. that's often how they gain advantages
On August 28 2015 04:29 KingAlphard wrote: I don't think I want to play sc2 anymore after this series. Sorry but if this game worked properly hitman wouldn't even qualify for challenger.
The game is not about a executing your offensive strategy properly? I'm pretty sure the idea here is to kill all the structures not race to get 70 workers and mine out the map.
It´s more about the fact that theres one race that allows you to succeed with only early game bullshit. There´s no successful pure cheese zerg´s or terrans anywhere near the top.
Yeah, that one game is an example of Mvp's entire playstyle.
It wasn't presented as an example of Mvp's playstyle. It was presented to counter the argument that only one race allows you to succeed with early game bullshit
Only race that allows you to succeed purely with early game bullshit.
On August 28 2015 04:42 rotta wrote: So sad about China, I'm pretty sure iA's record will be better than the others' combined. XiGua is kind of like their Sen, consistently inconsistent.
I seriously am not expecting improvements next year unless the up and comers made big break throughs and replace the status quos as WCS mainstay.
Honestly I don't know what to think about the result. I watched the last series on my phone in the subway, but from what I gathered Hitman managed to win with a gate + forge proxy and a 10 gate 4 gates. I find it hilarious but I can't help thinking you shouldn't be able to reach ro16 out of such builds... I couldn't watch the game with enough precision to know if Elazer fucked up his defences... But man, elfi and Hitman in the ro16... This is shameful, just shameful...
I hope MaNa gives me some reasons to believe Protoss can be played with elegance and respect tomorrow.
EPT
