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On July 03 2015 21:29 OtherWorld wrote:
Solar pls Nydus is my diamond-league answer to these kinds of cannon rush, but it really doesn't work at top Korean level d:
The only Korean-level answer is "not let it happen". When that fails, he may as well try the diamond-league version, when nothing else has any real chance.
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On July 03 2015 21:29 OtherWorld wrote:
Solar pls Nydus is my diamond-league answer to these kinds of cannon rush, but it really doesn't work at top Korean level d:
it's the only thing you can do, I've seen it work pretty well sometimes actually
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On July 03 2015 21:26 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 21:19 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 21:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 21:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:51 Ramiz1989 wrote:
[quote]
Nah, they aren't, they are pretty horrible but it's ok, I didn't expect anything different from a guy who thinks that PvP is the best matchup in the game. The best mirror, yeah I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah. That "proper" control, say vs muta/corruptor, is so difficult to do though that I have absolutely no issue with that. The same argument can be made about a concussive shell marauder killing an infinite amount of zealots without charge. It's possible, but so hard to do that it's fine. And no, phoenixes are not the end all counter to zerg air. Muta/corruptor with a good enough corruptor count does beat it, which is why protoss HAS to add in a stalker/archon ground army and zerg transitions to infestors. What the actual fuck? Yeah, the only difference is that Marauders are limited by ground and ground objects and are also limited by stim that chops a lot of their HP, it is pretty much impossible for Marauders to kill "infinite" amount of Zealots, where with Phoenixes you don't even have to move and a-click, just move properly. It is hard at the start for the Phoenixes when they don't have range upgrade and when you don't have enough of them, but later when you have ~20 Phoenixes? It is piece of cake, Corruptors can't kill catch you and Mutas melt instantly. It is also funny how you think that Phoenixes are tough to micro while on the other hand there is no any micro on the Zerg's side, as he can't do any against faster units with more range than his. So you've never seen zergs micro against phoenixes by retreating and then stopping to fire? Actually just go watch any soO game from 2014 before you keep arguing. With a good enough corruptor count, they 1 shot phoenixes. As long as your upgrades are good enough, phoenixes won't kill them quickly. That "easy control" you're talking about requires you to babysit phoenixes 24/7. You CANNOT leave them alone for even a second. But at the same time you also have to macro properly, control your ground army movement, etc.etc. Go play phoenix styles before you keep arguing. It's painfully obvious that you have no idea how hard they are to play. And perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, you could consider adding infestors against 20+ phoenixes. Transitioning is a part of every RTS game and you keep failing to address why having to add infestors is a bad thing. No, I don't know how hard it is to play Phoenix style as I am not a Protoss player, but I know how easy it is to control Phoenixes as I was playing with them... same can be said for you about Muta/Corruptors style, you see a ton of players losing a lot of Mutalisks in a matter of seconds when they are not following them. I don't know what so special about Phoenixes in that regard, every race has to micro, macro and multitask at the same time, it's called Starcraft... Mutalisks also need to be babysitted 24/7. It's not the same. Mass phoenix just needs more babysitting vs muta corruptor. If you leave them for a second to do anything you get mauled. They're just so fast and fragile that they require constant micro more so than zerg's air.
That doesn't make much sense, if I need to attack Phoenixes with Mutas and Corruptors I need to babysit them as well as Mutas are like papers against Phoenixes. If I leave them for a second Phoenixes can kill 3-4 Mutas before I even react, Phoenixes kill Mutas a lot faster than Corruptors kill Phoenixes. Difference is that I can produce more Mutas/Corruptors than Protoss can Phoenixes if he doesn't have like 3 Stargates, that still doesn't mean that I can afford to lose them recklessly.
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He did NOT take the gold? WTF, that's not the right natural for this map!
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Czech Republic12133 Posts
Pff, he doesn't remember MSC name? The big ball from Nexus! Then we have the big disco ball from stargate and in LotV we have a kamikaze ball from robo. Also we have electric ball from gateway. Protoss surely has balls! 
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sOs vs ByuL is what they're thinking of.
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No-one ever expects DT's from sOs... somehow ... 
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Lorning
Belgica34432 Posts
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If I was Zerg and someone nexus cannoned my overlord I'd build detection immediately...
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On July 03 2015 21:35 deacon.frost wrote:Pff, he doesn't remember MSC name? The big ball from Nexus! Then we have the big disco ball from stargate and in LotV we have a kamikaze ball from robo. Also we have electric ball from gateway. Protoss surely has balls!
Don't forget the ball with the flower around it that you build around Zerg Hatcheries, or the Forcefield ball from the Gateway
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On July 03 2015 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 21:26 Scarecrow wrote:On July 03 2015 21:19 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 21:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 21:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 20:52 DarkLordOlli wrote:
[quote]
The best mirror, yeah
I like your arguments by the way. I don't think you've ever played phoenix styles or you would realize that few things are harder to do and phoenixes are an insanely intricate and intriguing unit. Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah. That "proper" control, say vs muta/corruptor, is so difficult to do though that I have absolutely no issue with that. The same argument can be made about a concussive shell marauder killing an infinite amount of zealots without charge. It's possible, but so hard to do that it's fine. And no, phoenixes are not the end all counter to zerg air. Muta/corruptor with a good enough corruptor count does beat it, which is why protoss HAS to add in a stalker/archon ground army and zerg transitions to infestors. What the actual fuck? Yeah, the only difference is that Marauders are limited by ground and ground objects and are also limited by stim that chops a lot of their HP, it is pretty much impossible for Marauders to kill "infinite" amount of Zealots, where with Phoenixes you don't even have to move and a-click, just move properly. It is hard at the start for the Phoenixes when they don't have range upgrade and when you don't have enough of them, but later when you have ~20 Phoenixes? It is piece of cake, Corruptors can't kill catch you and Mutas melt instantly. It is also funny how you think that Phoenixes are tough to micro while on the other hand there is no any micro on the Zerg's side, as he can't do any against faster units with more range than his. So you've never seen zergs micro against phoenixes by retreating and then stopping to fire? Actually just go watch any soO game from 2014 before you keep arguing. With a good enough corruptor count, they 1 shot phoenixes. As long as your upgrades are good enough, phoenixes won't kill them quickly. That "easy control" you're talking about requires you to babysit phoenixes 24/7. You CANNOT leave them alone for even a second. But at the same time you also have to macro properly, control your ground army movement, etc.etc. Go play phoenix styles before you keep arguing. It's painfully obvious that you have no idea how hard they are to play. And perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, you could consider adding infestors against 20+ phoenixes. Transitioning is a part of every RTS game and you keep failing to address why having to add infestors is a bad thing. No, I don't know how hard it is to play Phoenix style as I am not a Protoss player, but I know how easy it is to control Phoenixes as I was playing with them... same can be said for you about Muta/Corruptors style, you see a ton of players losing a lot of Mutalisks in a matter of seconds when they are not following them. I don't know what so special about Phoenixes in that regard, every race has to micro, macro and multitask at the same time, it's called Starcraft... Mutalisks also need to be babysitted 24/7. It's not the same. Mass phoenix just needs more babysitting vs muta corruptor. If you leave them for a second to do anything you get mauled. They're just so fast and fragile that they require constant micro more so than zerg's air. That doesn't make much sense, if I need to attack Phoenixes with Mutas and Corruptors I need to babysit them as well as Mutas are like papers against Phoenixes. If I leave them for a second Phoenixes can kill 3-4 Mutas before I even react, Phoenixes kill Mutas a lot faster than Corruptors kill Phoenixes. Difference is that I can produce more Mutas/Corruptors than Protoss can Phoenixes if he doesn't have like 3 Stargates, that still doesn't mean that I can afford to lose them recklessly.
If they a-move into each other who wins? Phoenixes get wrecked if the zerg gets on top of them.
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that was some of the worst execution of DT attack that I have seen
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That was a lot less damage from sOs than I've expected.
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On July 03 2015 21:37 Ej_ wrote:
that was some of the worst execution of DT attack that I have seen
That was almost InCa.
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On July 03 2015 21:36 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2015 21:31 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 21:26 Scarecrow wrote:On July 03 2015 21:19 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 21:13 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 21:07 Ramiz1989 wrote:On July 03 2015 21:02 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:59 Ej_ wrote:On July 03 2015 20:58 DarkLordOlli wrote:On July 03 2015 20:56 Ramiz1989 wrote:
[quote]
Look, Phoenix as unit(without upgrade) is actually ok, but it still falls into a SC2 category of hard counters that just make for horrible games. It is just quite hard counter to whole Zerg air and Zerg has to tech to Infestors just to be able to counter Phoenixes. So your argument is that you need a certain tech to beat another? Are you trying to tell me that there's a strategic aspect to the game?! the argument is that no matter your air superiority, phoenixes with an upgrade destroy everything without taking any damage (if you have proper control). It's kind of sucky design, yeah. That "proper" control, say vs muta/corruptor, is so difficult to do though that I have absolutely no issue with that. The same argument can be made about a concussive shell marauder killing an infinite amount of zealots without charge. It's possible, but so hard to do that it's fine. And no, phoenixes are not the end all counter to zerg air. Muta/corruptor with a good enough corruptor count does beat it, which is why protoss HAS to add in a stalker/archon ground army and zerg transitions to infestors. What the actual fuck? Yeah, the only difference is that Marauders are limited by ground and ground objects and are also limited by stim that chops a lot of their HP, it is pretty much impossible for Marauders to kill "infinite" amount of Zealots, where with Phoenixes you don't even have to move and a-click, just move properly. It is hard at the start for the Phoenixes when they don't have range upgrade and when you don't have enough of them, but later when you have ~20 Phoenixes? It is piece of cake, Corruptors can't kill catch you and Mutas melt instantly. It is also funny how you think that Phoenixes are tough to micro while on the other hand there is no any micro on the Zerg's side, as he can't do any against faster units with more range than his. So you've never seen zergs micro against phoenixes by retreating and then stopping to fire? Actually just go watch any soO game from 2014 before you keep arguing. With a good enough corruptor count, they 1 shot phoenixes. As long as your upgrades are good enough, phoenixes won't kill them quickly. That "easy control" you're talking about requires you to babysit phoenixes 24/7. You CANNOT leave them alone for even a second. But at the same time you also have to macro properly, control your ground army movement, etc.etc. Go play phoenix styles before you keep arguing. It's painfully obvious that you have no idea how hard they are to play. And perhaps, JUST PERHAPS, you could consider adding infestors against 20+ phoenixes. Transitioning is a part of every RTS game and you keep failing to address why having to add infestors is a bad thing. No, I don't know how hard it is to play Phoenix style as I am not a Protoss player, but I know how easy it is to control Phoenixes as I was playing with them... same can be said for you about Muta/Corruptors style, you see a ton of players losing a lot of Mutalisks in a matter of seconds when they are not following them. I don't know what so special about Phoenixes in that regard, every race has to micro, macro and multitask at the same time, it's called Starcraft... Mutalisks also need to be babysitted 24/7. It's not the same. Mass phoenix just needs more babysitting vs muta corruptor. If you leave them for a second to do anything you get mauled. They're just so fast and fragile that they require constant micro more so than zerg's air. That doesn't make much sense, if I need to attack Phoenixes with Mutas and Corruptors I need to babysit them as well as Mutas are like papers against Phoenixes. If I leave them for a second Phoenixes can kill 3-4 Mutas before I even react, Phoenixes kill Mutas a lot faster than Corruptors kill Phoenixes. Difference is that I can produce more Mutas/Corruptors than Protoss can Phoenixes if he doesn't have like 3 Stargates, that still doesn't mean that I can afford to lose them recklessly. If they a-move into each other who wins? Phoenixes get wrecked if the zerg gets on top of them.
But why on earth would you a-move them into each other? If you a-move Mutas and Corruptors, Mutas will attack Phoenixes 5 seconds before Corruptors even come to them as Mutas are a lot faster... You are going to lose a lot of units against properly controlled Phoenixes anyway, you just micro so you minimize your losses as much as possible.
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I don't get how you can make a new base that is not protected vs dt's... so dumb
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After all these great games, Solar plays straightforward roach-hydra on Expedition Zerg ...
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Random spine in the middle of the map... holding down that R key too much I guess.
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EPT
