EPT[Code S] Grand Finals Season 1 2015 - Page 118
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Starecat
938 Posts
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Lockdown-
United States298 Posts
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D-light
Finland7364 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:37 Lockdown- wrote: GSL cut the restream right when LIfe was giving the winner's interview! Ahhh.. I wanted to see the kiss.  | ||
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Elentos
55550 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:37 Lockdown- wrote: GSL cut the restream right when LIfe was giving the winner's interview! Ahhh.. Pretty sure that also happened with the original stream <.< | ||
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Topin
Peru10080 Posts
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
As for innovation, its basically how much a player has impacted the way their race is played. Mvp created Mech vs Terran and his builds are still used today. He standardized base trade TvT responses. He made hellion banshee as the normal build and made both transitions into bio and mech. He made Mech v Z without the niceness of having the new Raven HSM meaning he had to hit 30 blizzard second timing windows to beat bl/infestor. He made mass ghosts a build, got them nerfed. He made scv pulls off 3 base and 2 base against Protoss. He had multiple one-off builds too. And no one has impacted series planning as much as Mvp even if no other player has ever really taken it to heart. Life doesnt have any builds to his name. He has a super aggressive mindset and one that he pioneered. And while it is impacted the way players view the game it didn't remake the entire image of the game in his own image the same way Mvp did with Terran. Even now in today's metas, the ideas, builds and compositions Mvp used are still used today. ForGG's victory over Life is couched in what Mvp did in WoL with the added benefit of having WMs, Hellbats and Ravens to stop any bl/infestor turtle. . | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
Also people who don't know history or have selective memories should talk crap about MVP. He dominated his peers on a level that has never been seen since. He won GSL in metas where terran was weak and with a career ending injury. Even today most terran plays are still influenced by MVP. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:37 Starecat wrote: I may watch this... It may be a shitty matchup but the absence of BW players on the finals give me a good feeling :3 You're right. I just noticed that. This is the first time a former ESL player won GSL since 2012. | ||
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ubikz
69 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:39 stuchiu wrote: Yea I took in the fact about talent and how players now are stronger than back then. I still came to the conclusion Mvp is right now the GOAT. Mvp did strong against Terran, Zerg and Protoss in times when each had a strong meta, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. Especially since the only Zerg who was doing well during the Protoss Blink Era was soO. As for innovation, its basically how much a player has impacted the way their race is played. Mvp created Mech vs Terran and his builds are still used today. He standardized base trade TvT responses. He made hellion banshee as the normal build and made both transitions into bio and mech. He made Mech v Z without the niceness of having the new Raven HSM meaning he had to hit 30 blizzard second timing windows to beat bl/infestor. He made mass ghosts a build, got them nerfed. He made scv pulls off 3 base and 2 base against Protoss. He had multiple one-off builds too. And no one has impacted series planning as much as Mvp even if no other player has ever really taken it to heart. Life doesnt have any builds to his name. He has a super aggressive mindset and one that he pioneered. And while it is impacted the way players view the game it didn't remake the entire image of the game in his own image the same way Mvp did with Terran. Even now in today's metas, the ideas, builds and compositions Mvp used are still used today. ForGG's victory over Life is couched in what Mvp did in WoL with the added benefit of having WMs, Hellbats and Ravens to stop any bl/infestor turtle. . Agree with you. But I think T has a lot more of strategic options than Z does. MVP was a great strategist, he innovated with the synergy of the terran units, but i doubt Z can do the same thing, isn't a flexible race in this way. Maybe in LOTV, or maybe I'm simply wrong. | ||
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TheAnarchy
Chile1105 Posts
Another important fact is that after life won his first GSL the game changed completly so it was harder for the same players to stay at top. | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
There were random players too like Leenock who made tactical adjustments and some interesting one-off builds. Nestea was also the king of one-off builds for Zerg. | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:50 TheAnarchy wrote: People forgets that in year 2011 and beginning of 2012 (the peak of MVP level) there were 13 GSL events and some of them (like the second GSL of Mvp) where specials events that where easier. The second GSL of Mvp was a 16 man tournament and half of the foreigners. Another important fact is that after life won his first GSL the game changed completly so it was harder for the same players to stay at top. Except at the time life won his first GSL MVP was at the top. In case you forgot, the player Life beat in the finals was MVP. | ||
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sitromit
7051 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:39 stuchiu wrote: Life doesnt have any builds to his name. He has a super aggressive mindset and one that he pioneered. And while it is impacted the way players view the game it didn't remake the entire image of the game in his own image the same way Mvp did with Terran. That's a strange argument considering Life plays Zerg, which isn't a build order centric race like Terran or Protoss. You need only look at the things other Zerg pros have said about Life over the years to see the impact he's had on the race. That many ultimately find his style inimitable is not a point against him, rather one that underlines how special he is. | ||
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sibs
635 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:39 stuchiu wrote: As for innovation, its basically how much a player has impacted the way their race is played. Mvp created Mech vs Terran and his builds are still used today. He standardized base trade TvT responses. He made hellion banshee as the normal build and made both transitions into bio and mech. He made Mech v Z without the niceness of having the new Raven HSM meaning he had to hit 30 blizzard second timing windows to beat bl/infestor. He made mass ghosts a build, got them nerfed. He made scv pulls off 3 base and 2 base against Protoss. He had multiple one-off builds too. And no one has impacted series planning as much as Mvp even if no other player has ever really taken it to heart. Life doesnt have any builds to his name. He has a super aggressive mindset and one that he pioneered. And while it is impacted the way players view the game it didn't remake the entire image of the game in his own image the same way Mvp did with Terran. Even now in today's metas, the ideas, builds and compositions Mvp used are still used today. ForGG's victory over Life is couched in what Mvp did in WoL with the added benefit of having WMs, Hellbats and Ravens to stop any bl/infestor turtle. . Yea, well one is playing a much more build centric race than the other, one also peaked in 2011 when the game was brand new, and 2 Port Banshee, pulling workers after making marines were all viable strategies... Seems like a silly silly argument. Also funny that one of Mvp's "GSL" consisted in beating foreigners(who won ZERO series) and San & Leenock, Life's WC is so much more relevant, with victories over Rain DRG Leenock Parting. I'm actually pretty convinced now, after looking more at their carreer's that at this point you have to give it to Life. | ||
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TheAnarchy
Chile1105 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:53 royalroadweed wrote: Except at the time life won his first GSL MVP was at the top. In case you forgot, the player Life beat in the finals was MVP. Mvp was not at the top. That was his last important appearence before moving europe. On ther hand Life won 5 premiers events in 5 month at that time | ||
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ubikz
69 Posts
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chipmonklord17
United States11944 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:57 sibs wrote: Yea, well one is playing a much more build centric race than the other, one also peaked in 2011 when the game was brand new, and 2 Port Banshee, pulling workers after making marines were all viable strategies... Seems like a silly silly argument. Also funny that one of Mvp's "GSL" consisted in beating foreigners(who won ZERO series) and San & Leenock, Life's WC is so much more relevant, with victories over Rain DRG Leenock Parting. I'm actually pretty convinced now, after looking more at their carreer's that at this point you have to give it to Life. Someone missed the literal history in the making when Dimaga gave Nestea his first ZvZ loss | ||
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stuchiu
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
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Cricketer12
United States13974 Posts
On March 23 2015 02:05 stuchiu wrote: And I'm convinced Mvp is still the GOAT as of right now. Nop $O$ is too skill and DRG mechanics is pure art | ||
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royalroadweed
United States8301 Posts
On March 23 2015 01:58 TheAnarchy wrote: Mvp was not at the top. That was his last important appearence before moving europe. On ther hand Life won 5 premiers events in 5 month at that time The finals of GSL is the top. I'll give him a pass on it being his last appearance in wol as it was still the best result of any terran player until the release of hots. Taeja may have won a dreamhack afterwards, but he didn't play any korean zergs. | ||
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