EPTMy simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch.
SHOUTcraft Clan Wars - Season 2 - Official thread - Page 37
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erby
464 Posts
My simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch. | ||
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SetGuitarsToKill
Canada28396 Posts
On July 07 2015 07:28 erby wrote: I just don't feel like MLG.tv is a viable option, especially for smaller tournaments. I've started to use it more (both on desktop browser and its mobile app), and you just don't have the viewership or the Twitch chat style feel where you can tell tons of other people are watching it too. Also, it's just a pain. It's like having to use a different browser just to go to one website; sooner or later, you'll just stop going to that website. My simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch. MLGtv was sponsoring the event. I don't get how you can say they weren't a viable option when they were the reason this happened at all. This wasn't about viewership, that was doing fine. This was about teams not participating and poor scheduling. Did you even read his posts? | ||
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erby
464 Posts
On July 07 2015 07:32 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: MLGtv was sponsoring the event. I don't get how you can say they weren't a viable option when they were the reason this happened at all. This wasn't about viewership, that was doing fine. This was about teams not participating and poor scheduling. Did you even read his posts? I was not making that comment as a direct response to his post about the lack of participation but as a comment on MLG as the medium. What is the sassyness for? | ||
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ClanWars
United States330 Posts
On July 07 2015 07:28 erby wrote: I just don't feel like MLG.tv is a viable option, especially for smaller tournaments. I've started to use it more (both on desktop browser and its mobile app), and you just don't have the viewership or the Twitch chat style feel where you can tell tons of other people are watching it too. Also, it's just a pain. It's like having to use a different browser just to go to one website; sooner or later, you'll just stop going to that website. My simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch. The presence on MLG.tv had zero impact on the viability of the event. Regardless of the fact that even on a much smaller and less common platform we still had more viewers than comparable leagues like SC2Improve, the Youtube vod views more than made up for the extra exposure we'd have got on Twitch. Also Twitch did not offer $60,000 a year in prize money for the event, MLG did. | ||
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TechNoTrance
Canada1007 Posts
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Superouman
France2195 Posts
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xtorn
4060 Posts
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KatatoniK
United Kingdom978 Posts
I hope you can work something out to bring us another shoutcraft soon. The effort and passion you put into these events is fantastic and shows in the final product (on your end at least) | ||
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
I mean ... Shoutcraft with full KR lineup was one of the best tournament. The clan wars with their funky maps was a hell of a fun night. Even "I suck at Starcraft 2" was funny as hell. Until next time TB ! Hope you'll find something less wonky to organize since the numbers are still here. Hope Viagra doesn't kill you though :p | ||
Liquid`Ret
Netherlands4514 Posts
These clanwars were one-time affairs for 500$ played on maps that you'd have to invest time in that differentiates from your usual practice, and from the convenience of ladder-practice. It's just not very rewarding to play. SC2Improve, because of it's seasonal setup, was a lot of fun to play in because you are playing to be the champion of a whole season and not to win one clanwar that is a completly isolated event. And on top of that it doesn't really tell you where you stand skill-wise because half of the maps are void in the competitive scene. The shoutcraft events that TB has put on in 2011, 2012 and 2013 were so fucking amazing and everybody loved them. I hope they can come back. | ||
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CashForSanity
22 Posts
And on top of that it doesn't really tell you where you stand skill-wise because half of the maps are void in the competitive scene. Imagine Stephen Fry and Stephen Hawking. One of them is genuinely intelligent, innovates with new ideas, is highly adaptable and would fare well in any intellectual environment. The other has read a lot of things a lot of times, and is very good and repeating those things that he's read over and over again. This is why Stephen Hawking will have a legacy not dissimilar to Maxwell or Newton and Stephen Fry will be completely forgotten within 30 years of his death. Or to look at it another way, if you made Usain Bolt compete in the 200m backstroke, he'd suck and possibly drown. This shows that while he's a very good runner, he can still completely suck balls at anything that he doesn't practice six hours a day. Playing abstract maps absolutely shows your relative skill level. It just doesn't show your memorization of standard sets of maps or give an indication of league play. | ||
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ClanWars
United States330 Posts
That simply isnt true. Half of our scheduled times were 2pm eastern, which is 8pm in Europe, designed for EU and NA teams. Our 8pm teamslots were designed from the aussies, Koreans and Americans. Problem is we had to cancel a lot of our 2pm timeslots because of lack of signups. | ||
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Fuell
Netherlands3111 Posts
 One of the few regular YFW team leagues I know of Totally understand the decision though | ||
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robson1
3632 Posts
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Yonan
Australia12 Posts
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FFW_Rude
France10201 Posts
On July 08 2015 00:17 ClanWars wrote: For some reason some people are perpetuating the idea that we never ran events at EU friendly times. That simply isnt true. Half of our scheduled times were 2pm eastern, which is 8pm in Europe, designed for EU and NA teams. Our 8pm teamslots were designed from the aussies, Koreans and Americans. Problem is we had to cancel a lot of our 2pm timeslots because of lack of signups. As an European, the timing was really conveniant most of time. So i don't see why they would say this and you are also the quicker uploader to youtube i know of. | ||
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brickrd
United States4894 Posts
On July 07 2015 23:00 CashForSanity wrote: Imagine Stephen Fry and Stephen Hawking. One of them is genuinely intelligent, innovates with new ideas, is highly adaptable and would fare well in any intellectual environment. The other has read a lot of things a lot of times, and is very good and repeating those things that he's read over and over again. This is why Stephen Hawking will have a legacy not dissimilar to Maxwell or Newton and Stephen Fry will be completely forgotten within 30 years of his death. Or to look at it another way, if you made Usain Bolt compete in the 200m backstroke, he'd suck and possibly drown. This shows that while he's a very good runner, he can still completely suck balls at anything that he doesn't practice six hours a day. Playing abstract maps absolutely shows your relative skill level. It just doesn't show your memorization of standard sets of maps or give an indication of league play. but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return | ||
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killerm12
Slovakia601 Posts
but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return but if progamers don't wanna do what fans want them to do then soon enough they will have nobody and nothing to play for...players and teams should remember that they are here for fans and thanks to the fans...without fans there would be no SC2 scene so if fans wanna watch their favourite players play on a gimmicky maps once in a while players should sacrifice those 30 minutes of practice to at least check the map and have the decency to show up for, and this is very important to point out, PAID event. | ||
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CashForSanity
22 Posts
On July 08 2015 01:49 brickrd wrote: but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return I was going to flatly disagree, but honestly I don't know enough about the relative revenue streams that come in to pro players through competition, merch and streaming to say anything definitive. I agree that, in terms of competition wins and sponsorships, focusing solely on league is a valid strategy - but it's a bubble strategy. They play for rank and they have nothing as soon as they stop playing - or even if a patch destroys their ability to win anything. A brand strategy just makes more sense to me. It's more sustainable. It's more stable. It's diversified. So I just don't get why, regardless of revenue splits, they wouldn't be more actively pursuing lulzy bullshit. The entire "thing" of pro play right now just seems to be: Focus on league, because league is what matters, because everyone focuses on league. And in specific regards to skill, as I said before: It doesn't show skill at all. It shows practice. And I don't really care about finding out who can click units the fastest. | ||
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Ej_
47656 Posts
On July 08 2015 02:20 CashForSanity wrote: I was going to flatly disagree, but honestly I don't know enough about the relative revenue streams that come in to pro players through competition, merch and streaming to say anything definitive. I agree that, in terms of competition wins and sponsorships, focusing solely on league is a valid strategy - but it's a bubble strategy. They play for rank and they have nothing as soon as they stop playing - or even if a patch destroys their ability to win anything. A brand strategy just makes more sense to me. It's more sustainable. It's more stable. It's diversified. So I just don't get why, regardless of revenue splits, they wouldn't be more actively pursuing lulzy bullshit. The entire "thing" of pro play right now just seems to be: Focus on league, because league is what matters, because everyone focuses on league. And in specific regards to skill, as I said before: It doesn't show skill at all. It shows practice. And I don't really care about finding out who can click units the fastest. Rain bubble-protoss confirmed, focused only on GSL :/ | ||
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