$5000 prize money per month. 10 events every month
SHOUTcraft Clan Wars returns as a premier team competition featuring teams from all over the world. There is no league, there are no rankings, each match is its own event with $500 in prize money up for grabs. Teams will battle it out in a BO7 proleague format with rosters submitted a week in advance, on community-made maps.
We have made some alterations to the format to improve the experience for our viewers and players. A 2v2 match every event will continue to happen, however we are increasing the size of the 2v2 map-pool to 3 and will include maps with shared bases for longer matches. The 3 maps will be rotated to ensure variety. We have regrettably cut SC2BW and Starbow mods from the event due to lack of player interest and poor quality matches as a result. In their place we will be featuring a compulsory match every event of the Legacy of the Void Alpha Mod, which will be replaced with the Legacy of the Void beta once it goes live. This will be an ideal opportunity for viewers to get a taste of what is to come in the final expansion. We will also be expanding our 1v1 map-pool to 7 to keep things fresh and it will feature a brand new selection of the latest community-made maps, both standard and non-standard. The unusual features of our Season 1 map-pool will not be forgotten, expect some interesting designs and twists in our map pool that players will have to learn to contend with.
Map Pool - TBA
Participating Teams
Axiom-ROCCAT Startale MVP Prime Yoe Flash Wolves MyInsanity Team Liquid Evil Geniuses Team Acer/Dead Pixels ROOT Gaming Team Ascension Team Baguette Clan Who? Complexity-iG Gravity-Flipsid3
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
For the love of god, please actually sign up for match slots, teams. When season one was nearing the end of its run and teams weren't actually signing up for matches I was so disappointed. D:
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
I'd love to try and make it work too tbh
I'm so so so down for it. How do we sign up?
Well first we need to make a clan name and get 2 more people
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
I'd love to try and make it work too tbh
I'm so so so down for it. How do we sign up?
Yeaaah no. This isnt a regular teamleague, each match pays out. The more teams we have the thinner the prize-money is spread. We will most likely be limiting our team lineup to 12, we wont be accepting random clans of forum users.
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
I'd love to try and make it work too tbh
I'm so so so down for it. How do we sign up?
Yeaaah no. This isnt a regular teamleague, each match pays out. The more teams we have the thinner the prize-money is spread. We will most likely be limiting our team lineup to 12, we wont be accepting random clans of forum users.
and here goes my plan of supporting our opponents with steady influx of money
we have to wait for the next season of that thing LickyPiddy is playing in
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
I'd love to try and make it work too tbh
I'm so so so down for it. How do we sign up?
Yeaaah no. This isnt a regular teamleague, each match pays out. The more teams we have the thinner the prize-money is spread. We will most likely be limiting our team lineup to 12, we wont be accepting random clans of forum users.
and here goes my plan of supporting our opponents with steady influx of money
we have to wait for the next season of that thing LickyPiddy is playing in
well, we tried, most likely nothing else we can do edit: I said most likely, it seems like the only way we could get this to work is if we had a decent amount of pros holding us up.
Hype hype hype! I hope TL will compete, especially conisidering TL boys current condition! Also, I look forward to see Axiom in action, I think they improved a lot lately!
On March 07 2015 16:51 Noonius wrote: there really should a clan made up of TL staff (writers, mods etc) and called The BanHammer or Temp Banned. I would enjoy so much witnessing their agony. yes, I am wicked
I'd like to see the regular TL crusaders of Olimoleague team up for a shot at it. But they probably don't have the consistency to keep with the scheduling.
Ah well, wishful thinking.
Since this starts in mid-april I would happily try to make this work.
I'd love to try and make it work too tbh
I'm so so so down for it. How do we sign up?
Yeaaah no. This isnt a regular teamleague, each match pays out. The more teams we have the thinner the prize-money is spread. We will most likely be limiting our team lineup to 12, we wont be accepting random clans of forum users.
and here goes my plan of supporting our opponents with steady influx of money
we have to wait for the next season of that thing LickyPiddy is playing in
I think it's time for someone to finally organize TL weekly
totalbiscuit, you should really check out team extreme supremacy, they have been doing insanely well and got top placements in lots of teamleagues (RSTL, psy esports leagues, SC2ITL...)
On March 08 2015 06:21 Lorning wrote: Invite Prime please :x
TB said in the other thread that the KeSPA teams would be invited. But I don't think anyone would fault them for saying "No." and prioritising Proleague.
On March 08 2015 08:06 HoZBlooddrop wrote: totalbiscuit, you should really check out team extreme supremacy, they have been doing insanely well and got top placements in lots of teamleagues (RSTL, psy esports leagues, SC2ITL...)
We dont have room for them and frankly they dont have any players that would be a draw for the broadcast. We're currently talking to Yoe, Prime, Liquid and MVP to round out the roster at the moment. Ascension gets an invite because their roster is largely IvD who played in last season and put up decent showings, so they have a strong American setup. We really can't fit in any more American teams without spreading the prizemoney down to be virtually meaningless.
I also have to think about numbers. Given the choice between a team that barely has a brand presence and someone like Prime, I'm going to take Prime. Helps that the Koreans show up on time and take it seriously too, something foreign teams have a history of not doing. Based on past experience, given the choice I'd work with Koreans 100% of the time. That said, with WCS now catering more to foreigners I would hope to see a more professional attitude from foreign players and teams, one that hopefully doesnt involve more twitter drama than good matches.
looks its just the reality of the business. It's not a charity, we can't invite everyone, the structure doesnt allow for that, it's not like a teamleague where you can invite like 28 teams and have only 4 go through. Creating a sustainable, profitable series that runs all year long is a tough job and the way we do that is put on matches that people want to watch. That means big names, big players, high quality contests with the best quality play we can get. I have 3 other foreign teams with stronger rosters than those guys that I still can't fit into the event.
liquid's got snute, bunny, mana, ret, tlo and even taeja if they wanted to bring him out. if acer had any interest in playing in this they'd have probably just partnered with axiom like they usually do.
On March 08 2015 14:45 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: liquid's got snute, bunny, mana, ret, tlo and even taeja if they wanted to bring him out. if acer had any interest in playing in this they'd have probably just partnered with axiom like they usually do.
They also have a player who just qualified for Code A btw d:
On March 08 2015 14:45 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: liquid's got snute, bunny, mana, ret, tlo and even taeja if they wanted to bring him out. if acer had any interest in playing in this they'd have probably just partnered with axiom like they usually do.
They also have a player who just qualified for Code A btw d:
HerO is so forgettable, especially since he plays for MVP in Proleague. He just really looks like he's part of their team <_<.
looks its just the reality of the business. It's not a charity, we can't invite everyone, the structure doesnt allow for that, it's not like a teamleague where you can invite like 28 teams and have only 4 go through. Creating a sustainable, profitable series that runs all year long is a tough job and the way we do that is put on matches that people want to watch. That means big names, big players, high quality contests with the best quality play we can get. I have 3 other foreign teams with stronger rosters than those guys that I still can't fit into the event.
In other news, MVP confirms in.
I'm really curious which those 3 foreign teams are, so if it's not a big secret let us know!
If you wanted a full Korean team league with good foreign teams, you should only invite Team Baguette and maybe mYi (but they have Koreans, so not really a foreigner team). "big players, high quality games" - I fail to see this in half of the teams invited so far. Not to mention one of them is famous for hacking.
On March 09 2015 03:25 AcerBly wrote: hmmm.... i think we are able to play it
Not with 3 active players. You need 5 minimum.
Players like Happy, Showtime or Welmu are not in any participating team are they? Maybe Bly has some nice connections to get a strong +5 players lineup
On March 09 2015 10:34 The_Templar wrote: MMA and Scarlett are question marks IMO, they are both pretty busy with other stuff. But Acer (and Scarlett) in this clan wars would be pretty cool.
Scarlett has reportedly been playing well over 16 hours of Dota per day since she quit, so I don't know of she'll have any time of starcraft...
Will be interesting to see if this actually happens.
On March 09 2015 10:34 The_Templar wrote: MMA and Scarlett are question marks IMO, they are both pretty busy with other stuff. But Acer (and Scarlett) in this clan wars would be pretty cool.
Scarlett has reportedly been playing well over 16 hours of Dota per day since she quit, so I don't know of she'll have any time of starcraft...
Will be interesting to see if this actually happens.
Yeah I know, I still read her fan club. Still, I think she could pull something together every week or two if she wanted to.
Speculating EG's roster is kinda interesting for this. Liquipedia says they have 6 total players including Huk, Incontrol, Jaedong, Suppy, Thorzain, and Xenocider. Unless they get a new recruit that means Incontrol or Thorzain have to play!
On March 09 2015 11:02 TBone- wrote: Speculating EG's roster is kinda interesting for this. Liquipedia says they have 6 total players including Huk, Incontrol, Jaedong, Suppy, Thorzain, and Xenocider. Unless they get a new recruit that means Incontrol or Thorzain have to play!
Probably InControl, he played for them in ATC last year.
On March 09 2015 11:02 TBone- wrote: Speculating EG's roster is kinda interesting for this. Liquipedia says they have 6 total players including Huk, Incontrol, Jaedong, Suppy, Thorzain, and Xenocider. Unless they get a new recruit that means Incontrol or Thorzain have to play!
Probably InControl, he played for them in ATC last year.
Wasn't that BM in the EG vs Liquid match IIRC, after JYP 4 killed? Dunno if they expected Incontrol to actually win (although I'm sure he did fine in that game, didn't watch ><)
On March 09 2015 11:02 TBone- wrote: Speculating EG's roster is kinda interesting for this. Liquipedia says they have 6 total players including Huk, Incontrol, Jaedong, Suppy, Thorzain, and Xenocider. Unless they get a new recruit that means Incontrol or Thorzain have to play!
Probably InControl, he played for them in ATC last year.
Wasn't that BM in the EG vs Liquid match IIRC, after JYP 4 killed? Dunno if they expected Incontrol to actually win (although I'm sure he did fine in that game, didn't watch ><)
Bear in mind this is proleague format, players have 2 weeks to prepare for just a single map, not to mention that 2v2 is part of the format and this time around, so is Legacy of the Void. I wouldnt underestimate players abilities in games they've had time (and the reason) to prepare for. If this is all Incontrol is prepping for I have no doubt he can pull out the builds that will secure his team a win.
On March 09 2015 10:34 The_Templar wrote: MMA and Scarlett are question marks IMO, they are both pretty busy with other stuff. But Acer (and Scarlett) in this clan wars would be pretty cool.
Scarlett has reportedly been playing well over 16 hours of Dota per day since she quit, so I don't know of she'll have any time of starcraft...
Will be interesting to see if this actually happens.
On March 09 2015 12:37 Deathstar wrote: ugh why foreign teams so weak.
Foreigner winrate vs Koreans in the last season was about 60% so I suggest you dont take them lightly. Given 2 weeks to prepare a single map, you can beat anyone
On March 09 2015 12:37 Deathstar wrote: ugh why foreign teams so weak.
Foreigner winrate vs Koreans in the last season was about 60% so I suggest you dont take them lightly. Given 2 weeks to prepare a single map, you can beat anyone
I can beat anyone? Sick! Me vs Life showmatch, let's go!
On March 09 2015 10:34 The_Templar wrote: MMA and Scarlett are question marks IMO, they are both pretty busy with other stuff. But Acer (and Scarlett) in this clan wars would be pretty cool.
Scarlett has reportedly been playing well over 16 hours of Dota per day since she quit, so I don't know of she'll have any time of starcraft...
Will be interesting to see if this actually happens.
time for sig change?
Let's wait and see what happens first, nothing is confirmed.
On March 09 2015 12:37 Deathstar wrote: ugh why foreign teams so weak.
Foreigner winrate vs Koreans in the last season was about 60% so I suggest you dont take them lightly. Given 2 weeks to prepare a single map, you can beat anyone
I can beat anyone? Sick! Me vs Life showmatch, let's go!
If you reach plat league in 2015 im starting your fanclub and totally sponsoring this as your entrance in pro sc2
On March 09 2015 12:37 Deathstar wrote: ugh why foreign teams so weak.
Foreigner winrate vs Koreans in the last season was about 60% so I suggest you dont take them lightly. Given 2 weeks to prepare a single map, you can beat anyone
I can beat anyone? Sick! Me vs Life showmatch, let's go!
If you reach plat league in 2015 im starting your fanclub and totally sponsoring this as your entrance in pro sc2
In all of 2015? Bro, I was rank 1 in my gold league division a few times, I will make it there eventually. Deal though
On March 09 2015 12:37 Deathstar wrote: ugh why foreign teams so weak.
Foreigner winrate vs Koreans in the last season was about 60% so I suggest you dont take them lightly. Given 2 weeks to prepare a single map, you can beat anyone
I can beat anyone? Sick! Me vs Life showmatch, let's go!
On March 09 2015 10:34 The_Templar wrote: MMA and Scarlett are question marks IMO, they are both pretty busy with other stuff. But Acer (and Scarlett) in this clan wars would be pretty cool.
You can still go there without getting acute core meltdown in the frontal lobes?
''Ladies and gentlemen welcome to the 95.5 the Weasel. We are bringing you today Shoutcraft Clanwars. I am THE Weasel and my co caster here is the barely known video game personality Totalbiscuit. 95.5 the Weasel, smooth jazz and high level Starcraft commentary, from the Weasel, to the Weasel.''
Anyhow, really excited about the return of Clanwars. Serral can keep dominating the matches.
Oh also TB, you're friends with Husky, right? Can you get him to cast with you? That'd be fun. He also hasn't uploaded a video to youtube in like 2 months, so that'd be good proof he's actually not dead.
On March 07 2015 15:14 TotalBiscuit wrote: we are increasing the size of the 2v2 map-pool to 3 and will include maps with shared bases for longer matches. The 3 maps will be rotated to ensure variety.
Since you haven't announced the map pool yet, what kind of 2v2 maps are you looking for? (Assuming that they will be community maps like the 1v1 maps.)
On March 07 2015 15:14 TotalBiscuit wrote: we are increasing the size of the 2v2 map-pool to 3 and will include maps with shared bases for longer matches. The 3 maps will be rotated to ensure variety.
Since you haven't announced the map pool yet, what kind of 2v2 maps are you looking for? (Assuming that they will be community maps like the 1v1 maps.)
The map making community has been asked to present at least 2 maps with shared bases and 1 map that is like Sacred Path in its non-standard nature.
Also welcome to Acer, just confirm your roster to me over Skype (you have my Skype you dolt, you've had it for years)
On March 12 2015 03:51 TotalBiscuit wrote: The map making community has been asked to present at least 2 maps with shared bases and 1 map that is like Sacred Path in its non-standard nature.
I consider myself part of the mapmaking community and this is news to me. The best way to reach map makers directly is to create a thread in the mapmaking section.
Regarding the third map, how non-standard can it be? Would an island map be too crazy?
On March 12 2015 03:51 TotalBiscuit wrote: The map making community has been asked to present at least 2 maps with shared bases and 1 map that is like Sacred Path in its non-standard nature.
I consider myself part of the mapmaking community and this is news to me. The best way to reach map makers directly is to create a thread in the mapmaking section.
Regarding the third map, how non-standard can it be? Would an island map be too crazy?
On March 12 2015 03:51 TotalBiscuit wrote: The map making community has been asked to present at least 2 maps with shared bases and 1 map that is like Sacred Path in its non-standard nature.
I consider myself part of the mapmaking community and this is news to me. The best way to reach map makers directly is to create a thread in the mapmaking section.
Regarding the third map, how non-standard can it be? Would an island map be too crazy?
Evidently not, we have like 50+ mapmakers in this channel
Well if you want to equate that Skype group with the mapmaking community then that's your call. Doesn't matter anyway as long as we see some cool new maps.
On March 12 2015 06:47 TBone- wrote: Just finished the Liquipedia page if you want to edit into the op TB. Also shameless plug of my first LP page/contribution :D.
On March 12 2015 06:47 TBone- wrote: Just finished the Liquipedia page if you want to edit into the op TB. Also shameless plug of my first LP page/contribution :D.
Looking good, but you missed Team Ascension off the list
Hopefully this time someone will keep the stats up to date. Season 1s stats are inaccurate
I love doing stats pages on Liquipedia (notably ATC) but I was kinda reluctant about SHOUTcraft Clan Wars because I didn't know where I should have included the Starbow games. In the main table or a separate one ? And what if a player gets to play with different teammates in the 2v2 matches ? Should we make stats for each individual player participating in 2v2s or for each duo ?
On March 12 2015 06:47 TBone- wrote: Just finished the Liquipedia page if you want to edit into the op TB. Also shameless plug of my first LP page/contribution :D.
Looking good, but you missed Team Ascension off the list
Hopefully this time someone will keep the stats up to date. Season 1s stats are inaccurate
I love doing stats pages on Liquipedia (notably ATC) but I was kinda reluctant about SHOUTcraft Clan Wars because I didn't know where I should have included the Starbow games. In the main table or a separate one ? And what if a player gets to play with different teammates in the 2v2 matches ? Should we make stats for each individual player participating in 2v2s or for each duo ?
Should be a little easier this time with SC2BW and Starbow gone in favour of LoTV alpha. You probably wanna separate the 2v2 stats though at least.
On March 12 2015 06:47 TBone- wrote: Just finished the Liquipedia page if you want to edit into the op TB. Also shameless plug of my first LP page/contribution :D.
Looking good, but you missed Team Ascension off the list
Hopefully this time someone will keep the stats up to date. Season 1s stats are inaccurate
I love doing stats pages on Liquipedia (notably ATC) but I was kinda reluctant about SHOUTcraft Clan Wars because I didn't know where I should have included the Starbow games. In the main table or a separate one ? And what if a player gets to play with different teammates in the 2v2 matches ? Should we make stats for each individual player participating in 2v2s or for each duo ?
Should be a little easier this time with SC2BW and Starbow gone in favour of LoTV alpha. You probably wanna separate the 2v2 stats though at least.
Yeah of course the 2v2 stats would be separated, I just don't know yet if I should rank the individual players or the duos.
On March 12 2015 06:47 TBone- wrote: Just finished the Liquipedia page if you want to edit into the op TB. Also shameless plug of my first LP page/contribution :D.
On March 12 2015 06:47 TBone- wrote: Just finished the Liquipedia page if you want to edit into the op TB. Also shameless plug of my first LP page/contribution :D.
Looking good, but you missed Team Ascension off the list
Hopefully this time someone will keep the stats up to date. Season 1s stats are inaccurate
I love doing stats pages on Liquipedia (notably ATC) but I was kinda reluctant about SHOUTcraft Clan Wars because I didn't know where I should have included the Starbow games. In the main table or a separate one ? And what if a player gets to play with different teammates in the 2v2 matches ? Should we make stats for each individual player participating in 2v2s or for each duo ?
Should be a little easier this time with SC2BW and Starbow gone in favour of LoTV alpha. You probably wanna separate the 2v2 stats though at least.
Yeah of course the 2v2 stats would be separated, I just don't know yet if I should rank the individual players or the duos.
I'll try to find an elegant solution.
It would probably best to just list the 2v2 results by player. Trying to list every single possible combination would be a nightmare.
Man it has been way to long! I am so, so hyped for ClanWars the Proleague format is so fantastic as well, I love how each player can make an impact rather than just all the focus on a single ace player like ATC was. I hope TB will use the Bo7 format like last year the only thing I don't like about Proleague is the fact that Bo5 seems too short imo.
On March 12 2015 11:30 SlammerIV wrote: Man it has been way to long! I am so, so hyped for ClanWars the Proleague format is so fantastic as well, I love how each player can make an impact rather than just all the focus on a single ace player like ATC was. I hope TB will use the Bo7 format like last year the only thing I don't like about Proleague is the fact that Bo5 seems too short imo.
On March 12 2015 11:30 SlammerIV wrote: Man it has been way to long! I am so, so hyped for ClanWars the Proleague format is so fantastic as well, I love how each player can make an impact rather than just all the focus on a single ace player like ATC was. I hope TB will use the Bo7 format like last year the only thing I don't like about Proleague is the fact that Bo5 seems too short imo.
also Scarlett hyyppuuuuuuu!!!!
We best of 7. Fuck BO5
I think all of the fans will agree that this is awesome!
On March 12 2015 11:30 SlammerIV wrote: Man it has been way to long! I am so, so hyped for ClanWars the Proleague format is so fantastic as well, I love how each player can make an impact rather than just all the focus on a single ace player like ATC was. I hope TB will use the Bo7 format like last year the only thing I don't like about Proleague is the fact that Bo5 seems too short imo.
also Scarlett hyyppuuuuuuu!!!!
We best of 7. Fuck BO5
I think all of the fans will agree that this is awesome!
This is, without a doubt, the worst post to ever get multiple gold ever. May god have mercy on our souls
On March 12 2015 11:30 SlammerIV wrote: Man it has been way to long! I am so, so hyped for ClanWars the Proleague format is so fantastic as well, I love how each player can make an impact rather than just all the focus on a single ace player like ATC was. I hope TB will use the Bo7 format like last year the only thing I don't like about Proleague is the fact that Bo5 seems too short imo.
also Scarlett hyyppuuuuuuu!!!!
We best of 7. Fuck BO5
I think all of the fans will agree that this is awesome!
This is, without a doubt, the worst post to ever get multiple gold ever. May god have mercy on our souls
It's funny because there are 4 fans, and you need 4 points to win a best of 7. There are also 4 sides on a square, 4 different types of humor, and 4th astrological star sign is called "Cancer."
On March 12 2015 11:30 SlammerIV wrote: Man it has been way to long! I am so, so hyped for ClanWars the Proleague format is so fantastic as well, I love how each player can make an impact rather than just all the focus on a single ace player like ATC was. I hope TB will use the Bo7 format like last year the only thing I don't like about Proleague is the fact that Bo5 seems too short imo.
also Scarlett hyyppuuuuuuu!!!!
We best of 7. Fuck BO5
I think all of the fans will agree that this is awesome!
This is, without a doubt, the worst post to ever get multiple gold ever. May god have mercy on our souls
It's funny because there are 4 fans, and you need 4 points to win a best of 7. There are also 4 sides on a square, 4 different types of humor, and 4th astrological star sign is called "Cancer."
God I'm happy about having another SHOUTcraft league. I don't know Team Ascension, Team Baguette, Clan Who?, but I think it's great that those unknown teams are getting a chance to have their rectums examined by the best of the best.
On March 15 2015 03:49 SixStrings wrote: God I'm happy about having another SHOUTcraft league. I don't know Team Ascension, Team Baguette, Clan Who?, but I think it's great that those unknown teams are getting a chance to have their rectums examined by the best of the best.
Team Baguette is a french alliance with players such as MarineLorD and Lilbow. Clan Who? is a sea alliance with players such as PiG and iaguz. Team Ascension is a north american team that has absorbed IvDGaming and signed players such as Astrea and HTOMario.
On March 15 2015 03:49 SixStrings wrote: God I'm happy about having another SHOUTcraft league. I don't know Team Ascension, Team Baguette, Clan Who?, but I think it's great that those unknown teams are getting a chance to have their rectums examined by the best of the best.
On March 15 2015 05:43 Ja.Y. wrote: lol EG? They have HuK, Jaedong, Xenocider, and Jaedong. No 5th? Unless iNcontroL is going to play too but that's a pretty shabby lineup
I'm a Team Acer fan, mainly because of MMA, but they technically only have 4 players active on their roster.. Merc for their 5th? :o
Scarlett's in, and Incontrol too as far as I know so that fills in the lineups.
Sounds really gr8. Only think I don´t like is the LotV mod. Blizzard said that a lot of changes will not be implemented so the mod now is quite far from what the game will look like. Could we perhaps get the new balance test maps (changes to SH, ravens, Tempest, Vipers etc.) at first, since Blizz would really like some testing from community, plus it would help players to transition when the changes take place and use the LotV mod when we know more?
On March 16 2015 05:04 BMKingPrime wrote: Any word on who Petraeus and Iaguz are going to play for? Will they play for MYI/ROOT or clan who? or both?
As per last season they can play for both teams. If both teams end up facing each other it'll be a 2 weeks in advance decision as to who they play for.
Suppy (who I believe is going to school) Xenocider (who is definitely still in school) Jaedong (who just took a break for about 3 months) InControl (who I love and is capable of some major darkhorse wins, but has not been the most competitive player in a long time) Thorzain (who I am pretty sure is completely inactive) and HuK.
What I'm looking forward to is seeing what the 2v2 combinations will be. Some of them are obvious (EG, Axiom, ROOT), but who the hell knows what kind of 2v2 Prime's gonna bring to the table?
On March 16 2015 17:51 Circumstance wrote: What I'm looking forward to is seeing what the 2v2 combinations will be. Some of them are obvious (EG, Axiom, ROOT), but who the hell knows what kind of 2v2 Prime's gonna bring to the table?
On March 16 2015 17:51 Circumstance wrote: What I'm looking forward to is seeing what the 2v2 combinations will be. Some of them are obvious (EG, Axiom, ROOT), but who the hell knows what kind of 2v2 Prime's gonna bring to the table?
On March 16 2015 17:51 Circumstance wrote: What I'm looking forward to is seeing what the 2v2 combinations will be. Some of them are obvious (EG, Axiom, ROOT), but who the hell knows what kind of 2v2 Prime's gonna bring to the table?
Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
On March 16 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote: Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
Just this on top of my head with absolutly no knowledge of if it could be fun or how hard it could be to create.
- Activation / Deactivation of a no fly zone on the map. Basicly like the lava rising but could only prevent air units for crossing the map.
- Neutral units on the map that could be MC or maybe just moving accross the map randomly (it could confuse players on the minimap or fuck up some engagements). Not to many. Just something like criters migration or something.
- Rocks that rebuild themselves (an inversion of arkanoid if you will) but not with as many rocks as arkanoid. Just maybe backdoor rocks that can rebuild ?
- gaz/mineral pickups on the map ? Maybe under rocks so they are not accessible at the start ?
- Night/day cicle. Summer/winter
- Gold main base (no other gold on the map) with maybe less minerals on it ?
- Expansion choice for mineral only or maybe one gaz or two gaz expension choice ?
- neutral supply depot (that could be killed) blocking path with them lowering/rising every now and then (timer like the map with the bridges).
- Bridges that can open and close but instead of being a timer it could be activated by a unit or deactivated (so players could choose to open or close path). The activation would be only of one side of the bridge. Basicly two bridges with one activation on a side and the other bridge have the activation on the other side (is that even understandable ?).
- Circled minerals main/expension. A little like the center of fighting spirit where you have minerals left AND right of your CC/Hatch ect... could be fun since simcity would be different and saturation would be maybe harder to do ?
On March 16 2015 22:28 pNRG wrote: Wow! TB, this looks super fun!
Any idea on broadcast times yet? I'd love to be able to catch them live...
In April we have 2 broadcast times.
8pm Eastern and 2pm Eastern. I've split the events evenly between the two timeslots to best accomodate the teams. Obviously Koreans dont wanna play at 3am, so I dont expect them to sign up for the 2pm Eastern events.
As usual with MLG.tv, the episode will be rerun for several days, so you can catch it anytime and spoiler-free vods will be available on the Youtube channel.
On March 16 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote: Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
You ever play C&C? In Red Alert 2 there were neutral captureable buildings on the map that gave the player who captured them big advantages, like additional income if they got a oil rig and access to new or upgraded versions of units for having tech buildings. That'd be very difficult to imimplent but I'd be very fun
I'm actually very excited about this. Prime were happily announcing their participation in Clan Wars in their FB page. Well done TB for all this, it's great to see you in good shape.
On March 16 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote: Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
I'd just like to see a map with 7 mineral patches on nat and 3rd, instead of 8 :x
On March 16 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote: Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
Just this on top of my head with absolutly no knowledge of if it could be fun or how hard it could be to create.
- Activation / Deactivation of a no fly zone on the map. Basicly like the lava rising but could only prevent air units for crossing the map.
- Neutral units on the map that could be MC or maybe just moving accross the map randomly (it could confuse players on the minimap or fuck up some engagements). Not to many. Just something like criters migration or something.
- Rocks that rebuild themselves (an inversion of arkanoid if you will) but not with as many rocks as arkanoid. Just maybe backdoor rocks that can rebuild ?
- gaz/mineral pickups on the map ? Maybe under rocks so they are not accessible at the start ?
- Night/day cicle. Summer/winter
- Gold main base (no other gold on the map) with maybe less minerals on it ?
- Expansion choice for mineral only or maybe one gaz or two gaz expension choice ?
- neutral supply depot (that could be killed) blocking path with them lowering/rising every now and then (timer like the map with the bridges).
- Bridges that can open and close but instead of being a timer it could be activated by a unit or deactivated (so players could choose to open or close path). The activation would be only of one side of the bridge. Basicly two bridges with one activation on a side and the other bridge have the activation on the other side (is that even understandable ?).
- Circled minerals main/expension. A little like the center of fighting spirit where you have minerals left AND right of your CC/Hatch ect... could be fun since simcity would be different and saturation would be maybe harder to do ?
On March 16 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote: Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
You ever play C&C? In Red Alert 2 there were neutral captureable buildings on the map that gave the player who captured them big advantages, like additional income if they got a oil rig and access to new or upgraded versions of units for having tech buildings. That'd be very difficult to imimplent but I'd be very fun
I know one of the maps back in season 1 had capturable neutral add-ons, and partially unrelated, at least one map in Brood War had an infestable neutral command center
On March 16 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote: Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
You ever play C&C? In Red Alert 2 there were neutral captureable buildings on the map that gave the player who captured them big advantages, like additional income if they got a oil rig and access to new or upgraded versions of units for having tech buildings. That'd be very difficult to imimplent but I'd be very fun
I know one of the maps back in season 1 had capturable neutral add-ons, and partially unrelated, at least one map in Brood War had an infestable neutral command center
On March 16 2015 23:21 IeZaeL wrote: Actually creating the maps for the tournament is harder than expected. Anyone got some cool mechanics you would like to see ? Maybe we can take some ideas!
Just this on top of my head with absolutly no knowledge of if it could be fun or how hard it could be to create.
- Activation / Deactivation of a no fly zone on the map. Basicly like the lava rising but could only prevent air units for crossing the map.
- Neutral units on the map that could be MC or maybe just moving accross the map randomly (it could confuse players on the minimap or fuck up some engagements). Not to many. Just something like criters migration or something.
- Rocks that rebuild themselves (an inversion of arkanoid if you will) but not with as many rocks as arkanoid. Just maybe backdoor rocks that can rebuild ?
- gaz/mineral pickups on the map ? Maybe under rocks so they are not accessible at the start ?
- Night/day cicle. Summer/winter
- Gold main base (no other gold on the map) with maybe less minerals on it ?
- Expansion choice for mineral only or maybe one gaz or two gaz expension choice ?
- neutral supply depot (that could be killed) blocking path with them lowering/rising every now and then (timer like the map with the bridges).
- Bridges that can open and close but instead of being a timer it could be activated by a unit or deactivated (so players could choose to open or close path). The activation would be only of one side of the bridge. Basicly two bridges with one activation on a side and the other bridge have the activation on the other side (is that even understandable ?).
- Circled minerals main/expension. A little like the center of fighting spirit where you have minerals left AND right of your CC/Hatch ect... could be fun since simcity would be different and saturation would be maybe harder to do ?
On March 19 2015 16:32 esltv_sc2_czsk wrote: Can more team sing up or its invite only?
We are full, it's invite only. More teams only shrinks the prizepool for everyone, it makes no sense to go overboard with team invites, we are already beyond capacity imho, I'd prefer 10 teams not 14.
Not only is Soulkey an amazing pickup, but I think Axiom will really benefit from a 6 person roster instead of 5 as it will give them more options. Originally I thought Liquid and Acer would dominate based on the star power but I'm not so sure now.
On March 25 2015 07:54 TBone- wrote: Not only is Soulkey an amazing pickup, but I think Axiom will really benefit from a 6 person roster instead of 5 as it will give them more options. Originally I thought Liquid and Acer would dominate based on the star power but I'm not so sure now.
At this point we literally need it because Alicia is currently playing part-time due to ongoing family issues that he needs to be a part of. We're often at least 1 man down.
On March 25 2015 07:54 TBone- wrote: Not only is Soulkey an amazing pickup, but I think Axiom will really benefit from a 6 person roster instead of 5 as it will give them more options. Originally I thought Liquid and Acer would dominate based on the star power but I'm not so sure now.
At this point we literally need it because Alicia is currently playing part-time due to ongoing family issues that he needs to be a part of. We're often at least 1 man down.
TB, if you ever need a rush 5th player, feel free to hit me up. I'm good I swear
On March 25 2015 07:54 TBone- wrote: Not only is Soulkey an amazing pickup, but I think Axiom will really benefit from a 6 person roster instead of 5 as it will give them more options. Originally I thought Liquid and Acer would dominate based on the star power but I'm not so sure now.
At this point we literally need it because Alicia is currently playing part-time due to ongoing family issues that he needs to be a part of. We're often at least 1 man down.
TB, if you ever need a rush 5th player, feel free to hit me up. I'm good I swear
On March 25 2015 07:54 TBone- wrote: Not only is Soulkey an amazing pickup, but I think Axiom will really benefit from a 6 person roster instead of 5 as it will give them more options. Originally I thought Liquid and Acer would dominate based on the star power but I'm not so sure now.
At this point we literally need it because Alicia is currently playing part-time due to ongoing family issues that he needs to be a part of. We're often at least 1 man down.
It's certainly going to be an advantage to teams who have bigger rosters. Odds are at some point a player will have to miss out on a match eventually, and for a team like EG or Complexity for example won't even be able to field a full roster if someone has to miss out. I also think its a possibility that the teams with deeper benches will have dedicated 2v2 partners practicing while shorter team rosters will have to have players practice for 1v1 and 2v2.
On March 25 2015 07:54 TBone- wrote: Not only is Soulkey an amazing pickup, but I think Axiom will really benefit from a 6 person roster instead of 5 as it will give them more options. Originally I thought Liquid and Acer would dominate based on the star power but I'm not so sure now.
At this point we literally need it because Alicia is currently playing part-time due to ongoing family issues that he needs to be a part of. We're often at least 1 man down.
Isn't Heart also looking to study in Taiwan, meaning he will be away from the house and possibly going part-time as well?
Introducing our 2v2 Map pool for Clan Wars Season 2
We are in the process of putting the finishing touches to our brand new 1v1 map pool which contains a great mix of new, yet standard maps and by far some of the most innovative and crazy maps yet to be scene at a pro level. In the meantime, I'd like to introduce you to our brand new 3-map pool for 2v2. Each Clan War will contain 1 2v2 matchup and the map pool will rotate on a regular basis. Without further ado, please welcome our new 2v2 maps.
Overview: Ice Realm is a fairly standard 2v2 map with a new mechanic to shake things up: numerous gates throughout the map block vision and movement, and are periodically retracted. All gates open/close themselves every 2 minutes throughout the game, which adds an additional strategical dimension to the game. The map allows for a wide range of attack paths - some only available when gates are open.
Overview: Deck 16 is a map made in the spirit of New Polaris Rhapsody, but with a twist! Instead of being 1vs1, it is 2vs2, and instead of lava, there's now deadly acid! Starting at the 2 minute mark, an acid surge will appear every 4 minutes, which will disintegrate and therefore destroy any poor soul left standing on the lowest ground.
A passage to the enemy main base can be found on this dangerous low level, but it is blocked until players destroy the hardened debris blocking it. The winning team will be determined by who can control the timings of the acid surge to their advantage!
Credits: Ferisii - Main map idea and creation. Scorp - Acid texture and trigger help. Uvantak - Map layout adjustments and custom Toxic decal. Ishayu - Description checker.
Overview: An extremely aggressive 2 vs 2 map where the flow of the game can be heavily dictated by the players. The map features two entrances into each players main, however many of the attack paths can be blocked by tearing down the collapsible towers. This opens several viable strategies for players, collapse the towers to contain their opponents or to turtle behind cover, delay attacks etc. The players may also chose to aid each other or take responsibility for their side of the map, in essence playing two 1 vs 1. Lastly the opponents can chose to partake in dirty economic warfare by collapsing some towers over their opponents gold mineral bases. On this map the sky is the limit.
Introducing the most varied 1v1 map pool yet seen in Starcraft 2
In Season 1 of Clan Wars we proved that good games can be created by unusual maps. We had some failures like New Pompeii, where it became clear there was only one optimal strategy, but outside of that, we saw experimentation, adaptation and unusual games with our mix of standard and radically different community made maps. This time around we are doing exactly the same thing, with an all new refreshed map pool with even more interesting ideas. Our map-makers were told the sky was the limit and that's exactly what they took to heart.
Crazy Clash
Author - SidianTheBard
Overview - As the name would suggest, the map is as far from standard as it can get. Hostile Missile Turrets, Bridges, Gold Bases, A line of sight blocking "Forest" and Healing Shrines are some of the features this map has. The players spawn close by air to each other, however all early air aggression is stifled by the existence of hostile turrets in the flying zone between mains. The natural is fairly defensible due to the long rush distance and the abundance of chokes. The choice of 3rd bases is very interesting, there is a gold that is relatively far and vulnerable to high ground sieges, a much more defensible 3rd that is initially blocked by destructible rocks or by breaking down the bridge control, and a regular yield base that is also far from the nat and also more open.
As the games progress two locations in particular grow in importance, the first is the middle high ground platform, as it directs the flow of attacks by ground as well as overseeing a healing shrine and a gold base just south-east of it. The other key location is a high yield island base amidst the turrets. The base also has a Xel'Naga tower, guaranteeing control of the skies to whomever can claim it. By destroying the bridge control in your base you are able to move to this gold base extremely fast, yet now your main could be vulnerable to the enemy. After 15 ingame minutes, all bridges will automatically open up, allowing the crazy to begin.
Overview - A extremely exotic two spawn map with several unique features. The first and most obvious feature is the hybrid mineral fields, basically half are normal yield and half are high yield for all bases. This will probably lead to an explosive early game economy and an emphasis on continual aggressive expansion in order to offset the quicker rate of mining out. The second feature is a wall of nearly depleted mineral patches, constricting movement along most paths and with the inclusion of several eggs in the walls that can be mineral walked. The eggs allow scouts (or cannon rushes) to get through, but not units. The map is relatively open in the center, but more choked towards the edges. Overall the features should promote very hectic and aggressive games on all fronts.
Overview - A two spawn map that draws inspiration from King Sejong Station. While Kylskada has eliminated the air vulnerability of its counterpart it has added newer vulnerabilities. The mains are slightly more prone to blink and both natural gases are vulnerable to sieges. The two possible 3rds, while relatively far from the natural are fairly defensible. Later on the map features several valleys dominated by a huge winding high ground plateau. The narrow chokes and corridors are idea for zone control units to dominate, however the multitude of paths creates a clear tension between control and mobility that the players will need to juggle.
Overview - At first appearance a fairly standard two spawn map with relatively close and defendable 3rd options. The architecture of the center is reminiscent to Neo Planet S, presenting a low ground area surrounded by a high ground platform with more outlying bases. But don't be fooled, the map has one unique feature, 3 controlable extremely powerful cannons with extremely long range in the center, the north-west and the south east portions of the map. While not immediately consequential two of the cannons overlook the key outling bases and thus become vital as the game progresses. The center cannon proves strong control of that area and thus encourages use of the lateral paths.
Overview - A small two spawn map with a fairly linear architecture. The players have a choice between two 3rds, a relatively close but awkwardly placed regular yield base and a farther but slightly more tucked back gold base. Attackers should focus on trying to interpose their army on the ramp between the natural of the defender and the 3rd or, alternatively, breaking down the rocks to siege the 3rd from the back or strike at the gold. If the games stabilize in the mid game then the high ground platforms that the bases are situated on become far more important and it is possible to split the map by gaining firm control of the high grounds.
Overview - "A unique map where the players spawn on one of 3 possible far spawn locations and have access to what seems to be a fairly defensible natural and 3rd. However while the architecture of the main bases makes them safe against ground based attacks they are vulnerable to, blink and elevator plays and backdoor attacks. Later bases are harder to take due to players spreading out thin. The center bases are relatively close but vulnerable due to the orientation of the mineral patches. The center of the map is dominated by many narrow bridges, ideal for aoe units.
Credits: Lefix - Main map idea and creation. Destruction - Map description help."
Overview - This is a two spawn position map that promotes multi-tasking and searching for new different avenues of attack. Initially only one fairly easy to defend attack path is open, but as the game progresses more attack paths can be opened up by eliminating the destructible rocks.The high ground platforms overlooking the central attack path both feature a base and dictate movement flow, guaranteeing that they will increase in importance as the games progress.
Thus concludes our preview of our exciting 1v1 map pool. These maps will be rotated and played in a variety of positions throughout the tournament, accompanied by a 2v2 map and a Legacy of the Void beta map in each Clan War. The season launches on April 8th so if you are looking for some innovative SC2 play with some of the best teams from around the world, look no further than http://www.mlg.tv on April 8th beginning at 20:00 Eastern.
On March 29 2015 11:35 Yhamm wrote: I can't find Icerealm nor Neo Skywalker in sc2, are they not uploaded yet?
Search [Shoutcraft], you'll find em all
hmm ok, it's actually Neo Sky Walker (didnt see you edited the name) and Ice Realm (you didn't for this one ) weirdly enough, I can't find Ice Realm through the editor
Can anyone confirm that Balloon will still be playing random? Also would love to see ToD make a guest appearance for a certain team or at least Co-Shout one of their games with TB, I'm sure we'd let him off with bias if he kept shouting 'Go on Baguette'.
Thanks to all involved with putting this together, Clan wars certainly provided some of the most interesting and fun games to watch for me last year and I very much hope this year is the same.
On March 29 2015 11:50 Yhamm wrote:hmm ok, it's actually Neo Sky Walker (didnt see you edited the name) and Ice Realm (you didn't for this one ) weirdly enough, I can't find Ice Realm through the editor
Availability trough the map editor depends on if the map author uploaded the map non-protected, which is probably the case here.
On March 29 2015 11:50 Yhamm wrote:hmm ok, it's actually Neo Sky Walker (didnt see you edited the name) and Ice Realm (you didn't for this one ) weirdly enough, I can't find Ice Realm through the editor
Availability trough the map editor depends on if the map author uploaded the map non-protected, which is probably the case here.
We're currently working on map intros for everything, this is a draft intro (it'll be changed) which shows off some of the cool features of Crazy Clash
1) Engines of War - MyungSik vs Ian 2) Deck 16 (2v2) - Terror and Zoun vs Vanilla and Has 3) Orichalcum - TangTang vs Parting 4) Legacy of the Void Beta - Zoun vs Vanilla 5) Crazy Clash - Terror vs Leenock 6) Neo Emerald Plaza - Keen vs Slam 7) (ACE) Penisula
On April 01 2015 21:56 TotalBiscuit wrote: Here's your opening lineup for the launch
1) Engines of War - MyungSik vs Ian 2) Deck 16 (2v2) - Terror and Zoun vs Vanilla and Has 3) Orichalcum - TangTang vs Parting 4) Legacy of the Void Beta - Zoun vs Vanilla 5) Crazy Clash - Terror vs Leenock 6) Neo Emerald Plaza - Keen vs Slam 7) (ACE) Penisula
On April 01 2015 21:56 TotalBiscuit wrote: Here's your opening lineup for the launch
1) Engines of War - MyungSik vs Ian 2) Deck 16 (2v2) - Terror and Zoun vs Vanilla and Has 3) Orichalcum - TangTang vs Parting 4) Legacy of the Void Beta - Zoun vs Vanilla 5) Crazy Clash - Terror vs Leenock 6) Neo Emerald Plaza - Keen vs Slam 7) (ACE) Penisula
TANGTANG vs PartinG? That's a better match up than the GSL final. I was hoping to see more Has for Yoe but hey, Has in 2v2 has the chance to be crazy.
On April 01 2015 22:20 SidianTheBard wrote: Chances of Terror or Leenock flying an overlord straight into the hostile missile turrets and losing the game at the 30 second mark...? lol.
On April 01 2015 22:20 SidianTheBard wrote: Chances of Terror or Leenock flying an overlord straight into the hostile missile turrets and losing the game at the 30 second mark...? lol.
On April 01 2015 21:56 TotalBiscuit wrote: Here's your opening lineup for the launch
1) Engines of War - MyungSik vs Ian 2) Deck 16 (2v2) - Terror and Zoun vs Vanilla and Has 3) Orichalcum - TangTang vs Parting 4) Legacy of the Void Beta - Zoun vs Vanilla 5) Crazy Clash - Terror vs Leenock 6) Neo Emerald Plaza - Keen vs Slam 7) (ACE) Penisula
On April 01 2015 21:56 TotalBiscuit wrote: Here's your opening lineup for the launch
1) Engines of War - MyungSik vs Ian 2) Deck 16 (2v2) - Terror and Zoun vs Vanilla and Has 3) Orichalcum - TangTang vs Parting 4) Legacy of the Void Beta - Zoun vs Vanilla 5) Crazy Clash - Terror vs Leenock 6) Neo Emerald Plaza - Keen vs Slam 7) (ACE) Penisula
Well, RIP TANGTANG.
Zest was probably thinking the same thing.
Zest doesn't have a 90% winrate against Terrans tho.
Sponsors shown is new? (not sure), it's a great idea though! I would prefer it if you could tell more easily which is the 2vs2 map (players next to each other instead of the current solution), but maybe that's just me :D
Sponsors shown is new? (not sure), it's a great idea though! I would prefer it if you could tell more easily which is the 2vs2 map (players next to each other instead of the current solution), but maybe that's just me :D
Saturday, Apr 11 4:00am AEST (GMT+10:00) - Team Baguette vs MyInsanity
1) Crazy Clash - (P)DnS vs Winter 2) Peninsula - (P)PtitDrogo vs (Z)Petraeus 3) Legacy of the Void Beta - Psioonnic vs (Z)Zervas 4) Engines of War - (P)Lilbow vs (Z)Serral 5) (2v2) Ice Realm - (P)Lilbow and (T)MarineLorD vs (Z)Reynor and (T)Narcotic 6) Orichalcum - (T)MarineLorD vs (Z)Kane 7) (ACE) Neo Emerald Plaza
Very good matchups. Might have to set my alarm for this one (4am here)
Also the following weekend is going to big for Startale, perfect time to show sponsors that might not see them out of PL what they can do
On April 07 2015 07:32 Boucot wrote: Pretty disappointing lineup from mYinsanity
Basically the reason for this is twofold: It's not great for the KR timezone and Sacsri and Rain are busy preparing for Code A so they don't really ahve time to learn new maps (and I don't want to field unprepared players). There are some scheduled times that are great for KR players timezone wise and some that aren't. I've signed mYi up for some of both with the knowledge that we do have a strong enough foreigner lineup to compete without the KR players if we need to.
THAT BEING SAID!
Winter is a super creative player. He's always experimenting with crazy stuff and he's also highly ranked (top 50 gm at the moment), so I really wanted to give him a chance to play on an awesome map like Crazy Clash. Zervas has been playing a lot of Legacy and has done very well so far (top 4 I think in a recent cup). They may not be the big names, but don't count them out; they're absolutely good enough to compete here
On April 07 2015 07:32 Boucot wrote: Pretty disappointing lineup from mYinsanity
Basically the reason for this is twofold: It's not great for the KR timezone and Sacsri and Rain are busy preparing for Code A so they don't really ahve time to learn new maps (and I don't want to field unprepared players). There are some scheduled times that are great for KR players timezone wise and some that aren't. I've signed mYi up for some of both with the knowledge that we do have a strong enough foreigner lineup to compete without the KR players if we need to.
THAT BEING SAID!
Winter is a super creative player. He's always experimenting with crazy stuff and he's also highly ranked (top 50 gm at the moment), so I really wanted to give him a chance to play on an awesome map like Crazy Clash. Zervas has been playing a lot of Legacy and has done very well so far (top 4 I think in a recent cup). They may not be the big names, but don't count them out; they're absolutely good enough to compete here
That's understandable. That makes it a very Zerg-heavy lineup though, ever heard of the French PvZ ?
On April 07 2015 07:32 Boucot wrote: Pretty disappointing lineup from mYinsanity
Basically the reason for this is twofold: It's not great for the KR timezone and Sacsri and Rain are busy preparing for Code A so they don't really ahve time to learn new maps (and I don't want to field unprepared players). There are some scheduled times that are great for KR players timezone wise and some that aren't. I've signed mYi up for some of both with the knowledge that we do have a strong enough foreigner lineup to compete without the KR players if we need to.
THAT BEING SAID!
Winter is a super creative player. He's always experimenting with crazy stuff and he's also highly ranked (top 50 gm at the moment), so I really wanted to give him a chance to play on an awesome map like Crazy Clash. Zervas has been playing a lot of Legacy and has done very well so far (top 4 I think in a recent cup). They may not be the big names, but don't count them out; they're absolutely good enough to compete here
Honestly, I think it's great that you're sending out some of the lesser known guys, gives them some exposure and a chance to show off what they can do. I still remember Raynor in NationWars and that game where he beat MarineKing, I can't recall what that was in though. I'm looking forward to watching the match vs Baguette for sure.
On April 08 2015 17:16 noobPride wrote: sorry if this has been asked before, but are there any plans to schedule some of the matches at European-friendly hours?
On April 08 2015 17:16 noobPride wrote: sorry if this has been asked before, but are there any plans to schedule some of the matches at European-friendly hours?
On April 08 2015 17:16 noobPride wrote: sorry if this has been asked before, but are there any plans to schedule some of the matches at European-friendly hours?
1) Legacy of the Void Beta (Coda) - RuFF vs Jaedong 2) (2v2) Deck 16 - Bioice and NoRegreT vs Suppy and Xenocider 3) Engines of War - Kamker vs Suppy 4) Neo Emerald Plaza - Thecoolman vs Incontrol 5) Peninsula - Bioice vs Xenocider 6) Orichalcum - NoRegreT vs HuK 7) (ACE) Sun Cross
Prime vs YFW unique viewers on stream - 22637 + currently 20699 VoD views.
MLG is a bit of a strange case. Usually you look at concurrents as a very important factor, but with MLG.tv, a great deal of your views actually come from reruns that are constantly going on with the channel. I think it's a really interesting idea, I'd love to see Twitch implement the MLG rerun system. As usual, the VoDs are doing really well on the channel, so as Clan Wars gains momentum I think we'll be in a really good spot for the series.
First couple matches have already been much better than the first two last season, good to see the players at least taking a glance at the maps and not just proxying every game....minus Has....cause you know
On April 15 2015 03:52 Dodgin wrote: Root looks favored to me
ROOT definitely has a strong start, but I think if it gets around to SolO vs Hack they'll just barely lose the series in the end. Should be good though.
On April 15 2015 03:52 Dodgin wrote: Root looks favored to me
ROOT definitely has a strong start, but I think if it gets around to SolO vs Hack they'll just barely lose the series in the end. Should be good though.
I dunno, Hydra is a pretty strong ace. Could he play in the ace, having already participated in 2 sets? I think it will be 4-1 or 4-3 to ROOT if so, but they might lose 3-4 if they have to rely on someone besides MaSa/Hydra.
Considering even Prime didn't lose 4-0 I doubt that ROOT will win 4-0. They aren't that favored.
On April 15 2015 03:52 Dodgin wrote: Root looks favored to me
ROOT definitely has a strong start, but I think if it gets around to SolO vs Hack they'll just barely lose the series in the end. Should be good though.
I dunno, Hydra is a pretty strong ace. Could he play in the ace, having already participated in 2 sets? I think it will be 4-1 or 4-3 to ROOT if so, but they might lose 3-4 if they have to rely on someone besides MaSa/Hydra.
Considering even Prime didn't lose 4-0 I doubt that ROOT will win 4-0. They aren't that favored.
I imagine Pet and Hack will definitely win their maps in singles, Curious might if he gets his shit together. As much as I respect Legend, he plays CatZ in LotV, so I'd say ROOT takes that one aswell as hydra's individual and the 2v2 for sure.
IIRC you can reuse players for the ace (like in Proleague), and hydra is a strong ace. I'm not sure how good it's on the map, but depending on that, Hack going mech is also a strong ace :S
On April 15 2015 03:52 Dodgin wrote: Root looks favored to me
ROOT definitely has a strong start, but I think if it gets around to SolO vs Hack they'll just barely lose the series in the end. Should be good though.
I dunno, Hydra is a pretty strong ace. Could he play in the ace, having already participated in 2 sets? I think it will be 4-1 or 4-3 to ROOT if so, but they might lose 3-4 if they have to rely on someone besides MaSa/Hydra.
Considering even Prime didn't lose 4-0 I doubt that ROOT will win 4-0. They aren't that favored.
I imagine Pet and Hack will definitely win their maps in singles, Curious might if he gets his shit together. As much as I respect Legend, he plays CatZ in LotV, so I'd say ROOT takes that one aswell as hydra's individual and the 2v2 for sure.
IIRC you can reuse players for the ace (like in Proleague), and hydra is a strong ace. I'm not sure how good it's on the map, but depending on that, Hack going mech is also a strong ace :S
The 2v2 could go either way. Hydra should beat daisy but it isnt a sure thing, Curious should take out Masa but again could go the other way. Legend vs Catz depends on if Legend actually knows what hes doing. Pet vs Kelazur is a bit of a toss up. Hack will likely crush Solo. The ace would be either Hack or Curious vs Hydra and I just don't see Hydra winning that.
Im more interested to see if EG drops a map to Ascension
On April 15 2015 03:52 Dodgin wrote: Root looks favored to me
ROOT definitely has a strong start, but I think if it gets around to SolO vs Hack they'll just barely lose the series in the end. Should be good though.
I dunno, Hydra is a pretty strong ace. Could he play in the ace, having already participated in 2 sets? I think it will be 4-1 or 4-3 to ROOT if so, but they might lose 3-4 if they have to rely on someone besides MaSa/Hydra.
Considering even Prime didn't lose 4-0 I doubt that ROOT will win 4-0. They aren't that favored.
I imagine Pet and Hack will definitely win their maps in singles, Curious might if he gets his shit together. As much as I respect Legend, he plays CatZ in LotV, so I'd say ROOT takes that one aswell as hydra's individual and the 2v2 for sure.
IIRC you can reuse players for the ace (like in Proleague), and hydra is a strong ace. I'm not sure how good it's on the map, but depending on that, Hack going mech is also a strong ace :S
The 2v2 could go either way. Hydra should beat daisy but it isnt a sure thing, Curious should take out Masa but again could go the other way. Legend vs Catz depends on if Legend actually knows what hes doing. Pet vs Kelazur is a bit of a toss up. Hack will likely crush Solo. The ace would be either Hack or Curious vs Hydra and I just don't see Hydra winning that.
Im more interested to see if EG drops a map to Ascension
Hydra used to be on a KeSPA team stronger than StarTale, he's easily good enough to beat any of their players now that Life is gone. Curious is also inconsistent as hell this year, him beating MaSa is far from certain; especially since foreign teams generally put more effort into preparing this.
On April 15 2015 03:52 Dodgin wrote: Root looks favored to me
ROOT definitely has a strong start, but I think if it gets around to SolO vs Hack they'll just barely lose the series in the end. Should be good though.
I dunno, Hydra is a pretty strong ace. Could he play in the ace, having already participated in 2 sets? I think it will be 4-1 or 4-3 to ROOT if so, but they might lose 3-4 if they have to rely on someone besides MaSa/Hydra.
Considering even Prime didn't lose 4-0 I doubt that ROOT will win 4-0. They aren't that favored.
I imagine Pet and Hack will definitely win their maps in singles, Curious might if he gets his shit together. As much as I respect Legend, he plays CatZ in LotV, so I'd say ROOT takes that one aswell as hydra's individual and the 2v2 for sure.
IIRC you can reuse players for the ace (like in Proleague), and hydra is a strong ace. I'm not sure how good it's on the map, but depending on that, Hack going mech is also a strong ace :S
The 2v2 could go either way. Hydra should beat daisy but it isnt a sure thing, Curious should take out Masa but again could go the other way. Legend vs Catz depends on if Legend actually knows what hes doing. Pet vs Kelazur is a bit of a toss up. Hack will likely crush Solo. The ace would be either Hack or Curious vs Hydra and I just don't see Hydra winning that.
Im more interested to see if EG drops a map to Ascension
Hydra used to be on a KeSPA team stronger than StarTale, he's easily good enough to beat any of their players now that Life is gone. Curious is also inconsistent as hell this year, him beating MaSa is far from certain; especially since foreign teams generally put more effort into preparing this.
Hydra was also one of the most underwhelming Kespa Zergs in SC2. Dont get in over your head. He's doing better than he had, but he is by no means a sure thing.
oh boy this next match is gonna be good!! I hope Startale puts a little more effort in than prime did, but I am still expecting a root victory. Teamleagues are so much fun, I really look forward to seeing the team and player stats after each team has played 3-4 events!!
On April 17 2015 07:06 TotalBiscuit wrote: Thanks for the support guys, the Youtube matches are clocking in at over 40,000 viewers per episode now, that's absolutely fantastic.
On April 17 2015 07:06 TotalBiscuit wrote: Thanks for the support guys, the Youtube matches are clocking in at over 40,000 viewers per episode now, that's absolutely fantastic.
I have trouble getting to watch these live, so I will always catch the VODs on youtube!
On April 17 2015 07:06 TotalBiscuit wrote: Thanks for the support guys, the Youtube matches are clocking in at over 40,000 viewers per episode now, that's absolutely fantastic.
Are you surprised ?
Shows been gone a year, so its not a good idea to take the viewership for granted. I guess I'm just surprised at how good the VoD viewership is so early on. It took S1 VoDs months to reach 50k views, it looks like we'll make it in a few weeks.
On April 17 2015 07:06 TotalBiscuit wrote: Thanks for the support guys, the Youtube matches are clocking in at over 40,000 viewers per episode now, that's absolutely fantastic.
Are you surprised ?
Shows been gone a year, so its not a good idea to take the viewership for granted. I guess I'm just surprised at how good the VoD viewership is so early on. It took S1 VoDs months to reach 50k views, it looks like we'll make it in a few weeks.
I really hope it stays that way. Your work is awesome.
On April 20 2015 03:04 Androxide wrote: Any news on MVP-YFW lineups? Usually they're announced a week in advance but we're 5 days out now with no announcement yet
MVP has not submitted their roster yet, we're trying to get it sorted out, think they may have misunderstood the format
On April 20 2015 03:04 Androxide wrote: Any news on MVP-YFW lineups? Usually they're announced a week in advance but we're 5 days out now with no announcement yet
MVP has not submitted their roster yet, we're trying to get it sorted out, think they may have misunderstood the format
Nah they probably just don't understand how dates work
On April 20 2015 08:16 FortunaDraken wrote: It was disappointing, the thing with Jaedong in EG's game. Is there any word on what actually happened during that?
looks like he was playing in that round robin thing at the same time
On April 23 2015 20:55 LongShot27 wrote: No lineups yet for tonight's match, MVP still have no idea of the format or are we going to get a "sick reveal" at gametime?
On April 23 2015 20:55 LongShot27 wrote: No lineups yet for tonight's match, MVP still have no idea of the format or are we going to get a "sick reveal" at gametime?
On April 23 2015 20:55 LongShot27 wrote: No lineups yet for tonight's match, MVP still have no idea of the format or are we going to get a "sick reveal" at gametime?
Lineup is in the OP?
ah, liquipedia wasn't updated yet
because i'm not checking the OP if there is no update on the thread but anyone else can do it
On April 23 2015 20:55 LongShot27 wrote: No lineups yet for tonight's match, MVP still have no idea of the format or are we going to get a "sick reveal" at gametime?
Lineup is in the OP?
ah, liquipedia wasn't updated yet
because i'm not checking the OP if there is no update on the thread but anyone else can do it
On April 23 2015 20:55 LongShot27 wrote: No lineups yet for tonight's match, MVP still have no idea of the format or are we going to get a "sick reveal" at gametime?
Lineup is in the OP?
ah, liquipedia wasn't updated yet
Liquipedia isn't ready for Choya vs PartinG. And Choya vs Has would just cause it to crash.
Not sure about when incontrol will show up, I think we're going to be using this thread from now on going forward. It consolidates the shoutcraft threads
On April 28 2015 09:09 Deathstar wrote: Not sure about when incontrol will show up, I think we're going to be using this thread from now on going forward. It consolidates the shoutcraft threads
You know you can make the LR's right? Lorning has them all prepared in the LR resources thread and it's super easy...
On April 28 2015 09:09 Deathstar wrote: Not sure about when incontrol will show up, I think we're going to be using this thread from now on going forward. It consolidates the shoutcraft threads
You know you can make the LR's right? Lorning has them all prepared in the LR resources thread and it's super easy...
Makes it a lot harder to follow than individual threads. -.-
Great match, for the most part players knew the maps which gave some really great gameplay. Damn I love me some shoutcraft! Shame about incontrol being held up (planes are evil, amirite TB?), but he should be around for the next one at least.
I disliked the pathing on Peninsula, but went to play a game on it to get a feel for it and changed my mind. It is absolutely doable to rout your forces, to keep them from being stuck, it is as if map was playing hold position micro against you. It isn´t hard to spot the stuck units either, there are only 4 eggs, if you know their location, quick mini-map check isn´t a problem, as you check mini-map anyway. Also, couple of ranged units can kill the egg in no time. It is a little bit unfair for terran, cuz I was just able to drop two mules (one, wait, then second), and get thru even tank (tanks won´t fit even after killing an egg, so won´t archons, thors, ultras), but it isn´t a big deal. It is map that needs to be prepared for, but when you do so, it presents new challenges and I would love to see how pros deal with them. Engines of War are pretty much the same story. Watching the games, the triggers seemed really bad, with inconsistent controls, since I thought they should work like xel´naga towers. I could have hardly been more wrong, as that was not the case at all. They count each unit incoming into its range as a kind of plus point and who has more points, gets the control. This promotes micro greatly, as the control could really be fought over. In here, I found to have unfair advantage as a protoss for a change, since I just took observer with speed upgrade and patrolled it on the edge of control rim of the cannon (when you patrol, there is no deceleration). I felt evil but strangely pleased at the same time. Multiple hostile units were not able to take the canon. It also means that building a unit there is useless, I remember that someone did that recently, it was just wasted resources. What is also worthy of note, cannons could be easily destroyed, they only have 3000HP and 3 armor. They can´t be attacked from melee range, but anti armor units like tanks or immortals just ravage them. What need to be fixed, is that some attacks bug out and don´t end up hitting the cannon. Most hilarious example is with BL and broodlings just glitching around, but it happens to a wide variety of units. Interestingly, queens can´t hit the canon from afar but when they move closer and switch to melee animation, they have no problem dealing damage. I´m so glad I didn´t criticize the maps b4 checking them out myself. Mapmakers did an amazing job, I´m impressed.
On April 29 2015 11:45 MrFreeman wrote: I disliked the pathing on Peninsula, but went to play a game on it to get a feel for it and changed my mind. It is absolutely doable to rout your forces, to keep them from being stuck, it is as if map was playing hold position micro against you. It isn´t hard to spot the stuck units either, there are only 4 eggs, if you know their location, quick mini-map check isn´t a problem, as you check mini-map anyway. Also, couple of ranged units can kill the egg in no time. It is a little bit unfair for terran, cuz I was just able to drop two mules (one, wait, then second), and get thru even tank (tanks won´t fit even after killing an egg, so won´t archons, thors, ultras), but it isn´t a big deal. It is map that needs to be prepared for, but when you do so, it presents new challenges and I would love to see how pros deal with them. Engines of War are pretty much the same story. Watching the games, the triggers seemed really bad, with inconsistent controls, since I thought they should work like xel´naga towers. I could have hardly been more wrong, as that was not the case at all. They count each unit incoming into its range as a kind of plus point and who has more points, gets the control. This promotes micro greatly, as the control could really be fought over. In here, I found to have unfair advantage as a protoss for a change, since I just took observer with speed upgrade and patrolled it on the edge of control rim of the cannon (when you patrol, there is no deceleration). I felt evil but strangely pleased at the same time. Multiple hostile units were not able to take the canon. It also means that building a unit there is useless, I remember that someone did that recently, it was just wasted resources. What is also worthy of note, cannons could be easily destroyed, they only have 3000HP and 3 armor. They can´t be attacked from melee range, but anti armor units like tanks or immortals just ravage them. What need to be fixed, is that some attacks bug out and don´t end up hitting the cannon. Most hilarious example is with BL and broodlings just glitching around, but it happens to a wide variety of units. Interestingly, queens can´t hit the canon from afar but when they move closer and switch to melee animation, they have no problem dealing damage. I´m so glad I didn´t criticize the maps b4 checking them out myself. Mapmakers did an amazing job, I´m impressed.
The pathing issue on Peninsula was something I talked to the map maker about, but it's not an "easy fix" because that's just how eggs work and the alternative is to remove a workers ability to mineral walk through it, which would shut down cool proxy strats and early game scouting. After reading that though I wonder if there should even be an attempted fix. These are pro-gamers, they should be able to handle this sort of stuff, this is part of the learning process.
I'll forward this feedback to the mapmakers, they might find it useful.
On April 29 2015 11:45 MrFreeman wrote: I disliked the pathing on Peninsula, but went to play a game on it to get a feel for it and changed my mind. It is absolutely doable to rout your forces, to keep them from being stuck, it is as if map was playing hold position micro against you. It isn´t hard to spot the stuck units either, there are only 4 eggs, if you know their location, quick mini-map check isn´t a problem, as you check mini-map anyway. Also, couple of ranged units can kill the egg in no time. It is a little bit unfair for terran, cuz I was just able to drop two mules (one, wait, then second), and get thru even tank (tanks won´t fit even after killing an egg, so won´t archons, thors, ultras), but it isn´t a big deal. It is map that needs to be prepared for, but when you do so, it presents new challenges and I would love to see how pros deal with them. Engines of War are pretty much the same story. Watching the games, the triggers seemed really bad, with inconsistent controls, since I thought they should work like xel´naga towers. I could have hardly been more wrong, as that was not the case at all. They count each unit incoming into its range as a kind of plus point and who has more points, gets the control. This promotes micro greatly, as the control could really be fought over. In here, I found to have unfair advantage as a protoss for a change, since I just took observer with speed upgrade and patrolled it on the edge of control rim of the cannon (when you patrol, there is no deceleration). I felt evil but strangely pleased at the same time. Multiple hostile units were not able to take the canon. It also means that building a unit there is useless, I remember that someone did that recently, it was just wasted resources. What is also worthy of note, cannons could be easily destroyed, they only have 3000HP and 3 armor. They can´t be attacked from melee range, but anti armor units like tanks or immortals just ravage them. What need to be fixed, is that some attacks bug out and don´t end up hitting the cannon. Most hilarious example is with BL and broodlings just glitching around, but it happens to a wide variety of units. Interestingly, queens can´t hit the canon from afar but when they move closer and switch to melee animation, they have no problem dealing damage. I´m so glad I didn´t criticize the maps b4 checking them out myself. Mapmakers did an amazing job, I´m impressed.
can't communicate with the others atm, but I don't think the eggs on peninsula were ever intended to let 2x2 units through, they're there mostly for worker scouts.
as for engines of war, I wasn't a fan of the cannons at first and thought them to be rather one-sided and over influential, but after seeing some games and add your observation I found them a better addition of a fun element to the map.
Just read that roccat partnered with axiom to bring HyuN onboard. Glad they got such a strong zerg, if he prepares the maps, he would be force to be reckoned with. EDIT: Ok, I was too slow :D .
On April 30 2015 01:13 Spect8rCraft wrote: I think there should be initiation for new Zerg players partnering up with Axiom: set them up on Crazy Clash and see if they rally.
Or preferably play on Peninsula, go greedy and see if they rally :D .
I think I need to make the natural a little easier to hold to we get more races to play! Sure we've seen protoss and terrans but also I think 3(?) ZvZs so far!
Or players should just wall off like Panic did....
Then again, hoping for these zergs to rally into the turrets is fun lol.
Not listed on Team Liquid under calender or streams, plus no thread for it? D: Not great for exposure, especially when it's going up against Dreamhack.
Well.. at least Shoutcraft has amazing VoD response, so I'll catch it there, but I wish I could've seen it live. Just an onslaught of Starcraft, today.
It's amazing how salty this tournament is making me towards specific players. I just can't fathom calling yourself a professional gamer and then not showing up to your match. It's like.. all you need to do. Show up and compete.
On May 09 2015 06:32 Yhamm wrote: Well, I tried to watch the rerun but I guess I missed something cause after 3 games (3rd games being the 2v2), + Show Spoiler +
the score is 3-1 for root
and there is not a single overlay to say what happened in this clan wars :/
On May 09 2015 06:32 Yhamm wrote: Well, I tried to watch the rerun but I guess I missed something cause after 3 games (3rd games being the 2v2), + Show Spoiler +
the score is 3-1 for root
and there is not a single overlay to say what happened in this clan wars :/
well that's weird, I watched the rerun, and the first match was Kelazhur vs Blysk/Kiwikaki, so I'm a bit confused was supernova vs Queene played first then? I really didn't see this match
On May 09 2015 06:07 Rehio wrote: It's amazing how salty this tournament is making me towards specific players. I just can't fathom calling yourself a professional gamer and then not showing up to your match. It's like.. all you need to do. Show up and compete.
On May 09 2015 06:07 Rehio wrote: It's amazing how salty this tournament is making me towards specific players. I just can't fathom calling yourself a professional gamer and then not showing up to your match. It's like.. all you need to do. Show up and compete.
Yeah....it's getting a bit ridiculous
I'm not happy with it either and am considering implementing "3 strikes" rules, but the problem is half the times on the roster aren't signing up to events so if I start kicking teams out of the competition I'm not going to be left with many choices. I probably should have waited until Proleague was over so I could bring some of the KeSPA teams on.
Anyway it is disheartening. $500 is not a bad prize for a BO7 and teams can earn up to $1000 a month playing on some fun maps and it also gives their lesser known players a chance to perform on the stage. I hope this won't happen so much in future. Today was a real mess because a bunch of matches and players got changed at the last minute by both teams and it was either let them do that or cancel the show, which would suck for the viewers.
It's super frustrating that teams aren't even signing up for available slots. This is just such an amazing opportunity for prize money, exposure, practice. It's a great way to get your players known to a wider audience and it gives them the chance to show their skill in a way that usually they can't by preparing for crazy maps.
I really, really enjoy Shoutcraft, but the teams and the players that call themselves professionals are disappointing me. =/
On May 09 2015 21:13 Rehio wrote: It's super frustrating that teams aren't even signing up for available slots. This is just such an amazing opportunity for prize money, exposure, practice. It's a great way to get your players known to a wider audience and it gives them the chance to show their skill in a way that usually they can't by preparing for crazy maps.
I really, really enjoy Shoutcraft, but the teams and the players that call themselves professionals are disappointing me. =/
The only teams that haven't participated in at least one event this season so far are Liquid and Acer/D.pix. Liquid is understandable since a large majority of their players are commited to WCS Premier/Code S and might not have time to practice for Clan Wars. When WCS is over we'll probably see them. Acer/D.pix is kind of wonky because their players are all over the world and it'd be hard to get enough available at the same time with other tournaments in consideration.I hope we eventually see them but it's a challenge
On May 09 2015 21:13 Rehio wrote: It's super frustrating that teams aren't even signing up for available slots. This is just such an amazing opportunity for prize money, exposure, practice. It's a great way to get your players known to a wider audience and it gives them the chance to show their skill in a way that usually they can't by preparing for crazy maps.
I really, really enjoy Shoutcraft, but the teams and the players that call themselves professionals are disappointing me. =/
The only teams that haven't participated in at least one event this season so far are Liquid and Acer/D.pix. Liquid is understandable since a large majority of their players are commited to WCS Premier/Code S and might not have time to practice for Clan Wars. When WCS is over we'll probably see them. Acer/D.pix is kind of wonky because their players are all over the world and it'd be hard to get enough available at the same time with other tournaments in consideration.I hope we eventually see them but it's a challenge
The main problem is not that, its more that we have a calender with each match. The procedure is as follows.
At least 3 weeks before the event, a "potential Clan War" is posted on the calender. Team managers all have access to the calender and are asked to sign either yes or no on each event.
2 weeks before the event, the teams are chosen from the selection of teams that said yes. At this time, the maps are chosen by me and posted on the event so that teams can begin prep.
1 week before the event, the teams must submit their player roster. This is done blind and revealed to each team simultaneously 1 week before the event, giving ample time to prepare.
Now the problem is not that only 2 teams havent tried to play yet, its that usually each event has only half the teams sign up either yes or no for, which vastly limits my ability to properly schedule and come up with good matches. So while it might seem like I have a pool of 12 teams to choose from for each match, in reality, its more likely I only have about 5 or 6. Even a team signing No is actually valuable information, because it will affect how I schedule the next month and also which teams I will pick for this Clan War (since I aim to give most teams 2 events a month) and which I will pick later in the month.
So that's the current problem. Well that and those teams that almost never sign up (or dont at all, like TL and Acer/Dpix) are taking up spots that could be given to up and coming foreign teams who have more of an incentive to practice hard for the event than the big teams, many of whom so far have not taken the event that seriously (I'm looking at you MVP and Prime), put on lackluster performances and also had forfeits or made last minute schedule change demands that screw with the format.
On May 09 2015 21:13 Rehio wrote: It's super frustrating that teams aren't even signing up for available slots. This is just such an amazing opportunity for prize money, exposure, practice. It's a great way to get your players known to a wider audience and it gives them the chance to show their skill in a way that usually they can't by preparing for crazy maps.
I really, really enjoy Shoutcraft, but the teams and the players that call themselves professionals are disappointing me. =/
The only teams that haven't participated in at least one event this season so far are Liquid and Acer/D.pix. Liquid is understandable since a large majority of their players are commited to WCS Premier/Code S and might not have time to practice for Clan Wars. When WCS is over we'll probably see them. Acer/D.pix is kind of wonky because their players are all over the world and it'd be hard to get enough available at the same time with other tournaments in consideration.I hope we eventually see them but it's a challenge
The main problem is not that, its more that we have a calender with each match. The procedure is as follows.
At least 3 weeks before the event, a "potential Clan War" is posted on the calender. Team managers all have access to the calender and are asked to sign either yes or no on each event.
2 weeks before the event, the teams are chosen from the selection of teams that said yes. At this time, the maps are chosen by me and posted on the event so that teams can begin prep.
1 week before the event, the teams must submit their player roster. This is done blind and revealed to each team simultaneously 1 week before the event, giving ample time to prepare.
Now the problem is not that only 2 teams havent tried to play yet, its that usually each event has only half the teams sign up either yes or no for, which vastly limits my ability to properly schedule and come up with good matches. So while it might seem like I have a pool of 12 teams to choose from for each match, in reality, its more likely I only have about 5 or 6. Even a team signing No is actually valuable information, because it will affect how I schedule the next month and also which teams I will pick for this Clan War (since I aim to give most teams 2 events a month) and which I will pick later in the month.
So that's the current problem. Well that and those teams that almost never sign up (or dont at all, like TL and Acer/Dpix) are taking up spots that could be given to up and coming foreign teams who have more of an incentive to practice hard for the event than the big teams, many of whom so far have not taken the event that seriously (I'm looking at you MVP and Prime), put on lackluster performances and also had forfeits or made last minute schedule change demands that screw with the format.
Basically all of that makes my life harder.
So why not open it up to smaller teams who will try harder? If TL and Acer are never gonna compete, why not replace them? I know that those teams are much more popular and bring the viewers, but if you never get them that doesn't really matter does it?
On May 09 2015 21:13 Rehio wrote: It's super frustrating that teams aren't even signing up for available slots. This is just such an amazing opportunity for prize money, exposure, practice. It's a great way to get your players known to a wider audience and it gives them the chance to show their skill in a way that usually they can't by preparing for crazy maps.
I really, really enjoy Shoutcraft, but the teams and the players that call themselves professionals are disappointing me. =/
The only teams that haven't participated in at least one event this season so far are Liquid and Acer/D.pix. Liquid is understandable since a large majority of their players are commited to WCS Premier/Code S and might not have time to practice for Clan Wars. When WCS is over we'll probably see them. Acer/D.pix is kind of wonky because their players are all over the world and it'd be hard to get enough available at the same time with other tournaments in consideration.I hope we eventually see them but it's a challenge
The main problem is not that, its more that we have a calender with each match. The procedure is as follows.
At least 3 weeks before the event, a "potential Clan War" is posted on the calender. Team managers all have access to the calender and are asked to sign either yes or no on each event.
2 weeks before the event, the teams are chosen from the selection of teams that said yes. At this time, the maps are chosen by me and posted on the event so that teams can begin prep.
1 week before the event, the teams must submit their player roster. This is done blind and revealed to each team simultaneously 1 week before the event, giving ample time to prepare.
Now the problem is not that only 2 teams havent tried to play yet, its that usually each event has only half the teams sign up either yes or no for, which vastly limits my ability to properly schedule and come up with good matches. So while it might seem like I have a pool of 12 teams to choose from for each match, in reality, its more likely I only have about 5 or 6. Even a team signing No is actually valuable information, because it will affect how I schedule the next month and also which teams I will pick for this Clan War (since I aim to give most teams 2 events a month) and which I will pick later in the month.
So that's the current problem. Well that and those teams that almost never sign up (or dont at all, like TL and Acer/Dpix) are taking up spots that could be given to up and coming foreign teams who have more of an incentive to practice hard for the event than the big teams, many of whom so far have not taken the event that seriously (I'm looking at you MVP and Prime), put on lackluster performances and also had forfeits or made last minute schedule change demands that screw with the format.
Basically all of that makes my life harder.
So why not open it up to smaller teams who will try harder? If TL and Acer are never gonna compete, why not replace them? I know that those teams are much more popular and bring the viewers, but if you never get them that doesn't really matter does it?
On May 09 2015 21:13 Rehio wrote: It's super frustrating that teams aren't even signing up for available slots. This is just such an amazing opportunity for prize money, exposure, practice. It's a great way to get your players known to a wider audience and it gives them the chance to show their skill in a way that usually they can't by preparing for crazy maps.
I really, really enjoy Shoutcraft, but the teams and the players that call themselves professionals are disappointing me. =/
The only teams that haven't participated in at least one event this season so far are Liquid and Acer/D.pix. Liquid is understandable since a large majority of their players are commited to WCS Premier/Code S and might not have time to practice for Clan Wars. When WCS is over we'll probably see them. Acer/D.pix is kind of wonky because their players are all over the world and it'd be hard to get enough available at the same time with other tournaments in consideration.I hope we eventually see them but it's a challenge
The main problem is not that, its more that we have a calender with each match. The procedure is as follows.
At least 3 weeks before the event, a "potential Clan War" is posted on the calender. Team managers all have access to the calender and are asked to sign either yes or no on each event.
2 weeks before the event, the teams are chosen from the selection of teams that said yes. At this time, the maps are chosen by me and posted on the event so that teams can begin prep.
1 week before the event, the teams must submit their player roster. This is done blind and revealed to each team simultaneously 1 week before the event, giving ample time to prepare.
Now the problem is not that only 2 teams havent tried to play yet, its that usually each event has only half the teams sign up either yes or no for, which vastly limits my ability to properly schedule and come up with good matches. So while it might seem like I have a pool of 12 teams to choose from for each match, in reality, its more likely I only have about 5 or 6. Even a team signing No is actually valuable information, because it will affect how I schedule the next month and also which teams I will pick for this Clan War (since I aim to give most teams 2 events a month) and which I will pick later in the month.
So that's the current problem. Well that and those teams that almost never sign up (or dont at all, like TL and Acer/Dpix) are taking up spots that could be given to up and coming foreign teams who have more of an incentive to practice hard for the event than the big teams, many of whom so far have not taken the event that seriously (I'm looking at you MVP and Prime), put on lackluster performances and also had forfeits or made last minute schedule change demands that screw with the format.
Basically all of that makes my life harder.
So why not open it up to smaller teams who will try harder? If TL and Acer are never gonna compete, why not replace them? I know that those teams are much more popular and bring the viewers, but if you never get them that doesn't really matter does it?
Define smaller team
The up and coming ones who will try harder, that TB mentioned
On May 09 2015 21:13 Rehio wrote: It's super frustrating that teams aren't even signing up for available slots. This is just such an amazing opportunity for prize money, exposure, practice. It's a great way to get your players known to a wider audience and it gives them the chance to show their skill in a way that usually they can't by preparing for crazy maps.
I really, really enjoy Shoutcraft, but the teams and the players that call themselves professionals are disappointing me. =/
The only teams that haven't participated in at least one event this season so far are Liquid and Acer/D.pix. Liquid is understandable since a large majority of their players are commited to WCS Premier/Code S and might not have time to practice for Clan Wars. When WCS is over we'll probably see them. Acer/D.pix is kind of wonky because their players are all over the world and it'd be hard to get enough available at the same time with other tournaments in consideration.I hope we eventually see them but it's a challenge
The main problem is not that, its more that we have a calender with each match. The procedure is as follows.
At least 3 weeks before the event, a "potential Clan War" is posted on the calender. Team managers all have access to the calender and are asked to sign either yes or no on each event.
2 weeks before the event, the teams are chosen from the selection of teams that said yes. At this time, the maps are chosen by me and posted on the event so that teams can begin prep.
1 week before the event, the teams must submit their player roster. This is done blind and revealed to each team simultaneously 1 week before the event, giving ample time to prepare.
Now the problem is not that only 2 teams havent tried to play yet, its that usually each event has only half the teams sign up either yes or no for, which vastly limits my ability to properly schedule and come up with good matches. So while it might seem like I have a pool of 12 teams to choose from for each match, in reality, its more likely I only have about 5 or 6. Even a team signing No is actually valuable information, because it will affect how I schedule the next month and also which teams I will pick for this Clan War (since I aim to give most teams 2 events a month) and which I will pick later in the month.
So that's the current problem. Well that and those teams that almost never sign up (or dont at all, like TL and Acer/Dpix) are taking up spots that could be given to up and coming foreign teams who have more of an incentive to practice hard for the event than the big teams, many of whom so far have not taken the event that seriously (I'm looking at you MVP and Prime), put on lackluster performances and also had forfeits or made last minute schedule change demands that screw with the format.
Basically all of that makes my life harder.
So why not open it up to smaller teams who will try harder? If TL and Acer are never gonna compete, why not replace them? I know that those teams are much more popular and bring the viewers, but if you never get them that doesn't really matter does it?
Define smaller team
The up and coming ones who will try harder, that TB mentioned
Here's the thing, it would be okay to have teams that have a premier roster like Property or Cascade. Or teams with 2 or 3 premier players like Punchline or Flipside. But there are alot of "up and coming" teams with only 1 player of note or none that would just get 4-0'd and 4-1'd every time and that would be nearly as worse as the no shows. And then if a team like that had a no show it would be catastrophe. These choices need to be made VERY carefully or the product will end up coming out as a piece of shit and no one wants that.
It would be nice to see Property or Invasion to join up, they definitely have the players. Both Root and mYi showed really nice games, and + Show Spoiler +
Despite gowser dropping, I liked this series! The 2v2 and the games by Kane were very fun to watch and Incontrol is a very good casting partner, so all in all, I'm happy with root vs myi.
On May 10 2015 09:12 Deathstar wrote: Despite gowser dropping, I liked this series! The 2v2 and the games by Kane were very fun to watch and Incontrol is a very good casting partner, so all in all, I'm happy with root vs myi.
It was an excellent 2v2, hope to see more of that.
On May 10 2015 10:21 SidianTheBard wrote: I haven't watched the vod just yet, most likely tomorrow or monday, but why was it Goswser vs Winter when OP says Masa vs Winter?
Because there were a bunch of last minute roster changes
Just to clarify: today will be the Sbenu vs. Baguette matches played, and later on at some other point Total Biscuit will be casting the replays live as if it were a normal show?
I know he's probably having a brutal time recovering from the surgery yesterday, and I hope he's doing well. Hope you have a good rest and feel better, TB. <3
FYI Axiom vs coL-IG will be postponed til a future date, this is due to my recovery from surgery since I dont know if I can be 100% by then. The Sbenu vs Baguette replays will also be cast at a future date once I feel up to it. Otherwise, we should resume with EG vs ROOT as advertised.
Anyone else think its odd that Prime is partnered with iG for proleague but iG partnered with complexity for this, despite prime also being in the league?
On May 18 2015 06:30 ClanWars wrote: Jaedong will take to LOTV once again vs ROOT, but the question is, can he defeat the bathroom in a BO5 prior to his match?
Apparently the hard counter to progamers is mundane life.
On May 13 2015 20:15 Rehio wrote: Just to clarify: today will be the Sbenu vs. Baguette matches played, and later on at some other point Total Biscuit will be casting the replays live as if it were a normal show?
I know he's probably having a brutal time recovering from the surgery yesterday, and I hope he's doing well. Hope you have a good rest and feel better, TB. <3
Was wondering why they were no show match but i read this now. What happened ? I thought he was cleared of his sickness ?
On May 13 2015 20:15 Rehio wrote: Just to clarify: today will be the Sbenu vs. Baguette matches played, and later on at some other point Total Biscuit will be casting the replays live as if it were a normal show?
I know he's probably having a brutal time recovering from the surgery yesterday, and I hope he's doing well. Hope you have a good rest and feel better, TB. <3
Was wondering why they were no show match but i read this now. What happened ? I thought he was cleared of his sickness ?
TB needed some surgery to put a few bits back in the correct place/get his chemo port removed iirc.
On May 13 2015 20:15 Rehio wrote: Just to clarify: today will be the Sbenu vs. Baguette matches played, and later on at some other point Total Biscuit will be casting the replays live as if it were a normal show?
I know he's probably having a brutal time recovering from the surgery yesterday, and I hope he's doing well. Hope you have a good rest and feel better, TB. <3
Was wondering why they were no show match but i read this now. What happened ? I thought he was cleared of his sickness ?
TB needed some surgery to put a few bits back in the correct place/get his chemo port removed iirc.
anyone notice they obviously didn't change the can be taken by seeing as how suppy overrode hydra's control of the cannon with air and later neutralized it from hydra's drone with just his overlord?
On May 25 2015 02:49 elfonse wrote: im guessing intense is a mercenary for TAsc?
Actually at this point it doesnt matter since I've been informed he can't attend so his match will be a walkover
... Too bad it's not a "real teamlleague" (i mean with them ranks) so you could apply penalties to team with player that don't show up. Guess losing a matchh isn't that big for them ?
Well maybe they have they reason (and good ones)
oh btw Ptitdrago is read : "Ptee"drogo and it's for "little" Ptit is like "lil"
On May 25 2015 23:09 argonautdice wrote: any chance we'll see coL-iG in the near future?
Its up to them to sign up, as it is for other teams.
So far we have had only 3 teams out of 14 sign up for June events, so so far, June is Dead on Arrival. Hopefully they sign up soon, or we wont be able to run any Clan Wars.
On May 25 2015 23:09 argonautdice wrote: any chance we'll see coL-iG in the near future?
Its up to them to sign up, as it is for other teams.
So far we have had only 3 teams out of 14 sign up for June events, so so far, June is Dead on Arrival. Hopefully they sign up soon, or we wont be able to run any Clan Wars.
On May 25 2015 23:09 argonautdice wrote: any chance we'll see coL-iG in the near future?
Its up to them to sign up, as it is for other teams.
So far we have had only 3 teams out of 14 sign up for June events, so so far, June is Dead on Arrival. Hopefully they sign up soon, or we wont be able to run any Clan Wars.
it'd be pretty nice if teams actually seemed to want to make money.
On May 25 2015 23:09 argonautdice wrote: any chance we'll see coL-iG in the near future?
Its up to them to sign up, as it is for other teams.
So far we have had only 3 teams out of 14 sign up for June events, so so far, June is Dead on Arrival. Hopefully they sign up soon, or we wont be able to run any Clan Wars.
it'd be pretty nice if teams actually seemed to want to make money.
Yeah the opportunity is there for the taking. Are players this lazy? -.-
On May 26 2015 07:46 William paradise wrote: any chance we'll see Acer anytime they did sign up after all.
Acer have not signed up to a single event thus far
i thought they were one of the teams that said they would participate.
They said that and then didnt sign up to any events.
It's such a shame that them and Liquid, two of the most interesting teams to register, have yet to participate. Let's hope some day they do or else... I mean I don't know if you can kick them out or what but I wish there was something that you could do.
On May 26 2015 07:46 William paradise wrote: any chance we'll see Acer anytime they did sign up after all.
Acer have not signed up to a single event thus far
i thought they were one of the teams that said they would participate.
They said that and then didnt sign up to any events.
It's such a shame that them and Liquid, two of the most interesting teams to register, have yet to participate. Let's hope some day they do or else... I mean I don't know if you can kick them out or what but I wish there was something that you could do.
Yeah and it's kinda weird to see that SBENU, being one of the teams that plays Proleague, is one of the teams that signs up for the most Clan Wars events. You'd figure those teams would be the ones to go "No sorry we can't" at some point.
On May 26 2015 07:46 William paradise wrote: any chance we'll see Acer anytime they did sign up after all.
Acer have not signed up to a single event thus far
i thought they were one of the teams that said they would participate.
They said that and then didnt sign up to any events.
It's such a shame that them and Liquid, two of the most interesting teams to register, have yet to participate. Let's hope some day they do or else... I mean I don't know if you can kick them out or what but I wish there was something that you could do.
Yeah and it's kinda weird to see that SBENU, being one of the teams that plays Proleague, is one of the teams that signs up for the most Clan Wars events. You'd figure those teams would be the ones to go "No sorry we can't" at some point.
SBENU has a huge roster though, they can afford to focus on both. Liquid have 5 out of 7 players in WCS, I'd imagine WCS is their priority right now.
On May 26 2015 07:46 William paradise wrote: any chance we'll see Acer anytime they did sign up after all.
Acer have not signed up to a single event thus far
i thought they were one of the teams that said they would participate.
They said that and then didnt sign up to any events.
It's such a shame that them and Liquid, two of the most interesting teams to register, have yet to participate. Let's hope some day they do or else... I mean I don't know if you can kick them out or what but I wish there was something that you could do.
Yeah and it's kinda weird to see that SBENU, being one of the teams that plays Proleague, is one of the teams that signs up for the most Clan Wars events. You'd figure those teams would be the ones to go "No sorry we can't" at some point.
SBENU has a huge roster though, they can afford to focus on both. Liquid have 5 out of 7 players in WCS, I'd imagine WCS is their priority right now.
Yeah sure, but SBENU has Proleague every week, which needs preparation, and has/had several guys in GSL. All that needs a lot of prep work. The fact that they not only sign up for more Clan Wars events than most other teams but also show up well prepared in contrast to the majority of Korean teams (and some foreign teams) is amazing. And I'm really glad they do it.
On May 27 2015 00:22 goodCat14 wrote: Did Sbenu vs Yfw get cancelled?
It's been moved, both teams requested to move it in order to practice for Proleague. I have a date for early June for it, I just need to confirm before I can post it
On May 26 2015 07:46 William paradise wrote: any chance we'll see Acer anytime they did sign up after all.
Acer have not signed up to a single event thus far
i thought they were one of the teams that said they would participate.
They said that and then didnt sign up to any events.
It's such a shame that them and Liquid, two of the most interesting teams to register, have yet to participate. Let's hope some day they do or else... I mean I don't know if you can kick them out or what but I wish there was something that you could do.
Yeah and it's kinda weird to see that SBENU, being one of the teams that plays Proleague, is one of the teams that signs up for the most Clan Wars events. You'd figure those teams would be the ones to go "No sorry we can't" at some point.
Sbenu are not a rich team and Clan Wars is steady income for them. They've already made over $3000 from the tournament for just playing a few best of 7s, they get that its a good deal for them.
On May 31 2015 02:46 MaxiTB wrote: No I got that one, it just felt to me that Season 1 was a little bit more diverse along the teams. So I figured, maybe there's a schedule laid out
Well there is a schedule for matches, but it's up to the teams to sign up for the different dates and those teams that have had zero matches have not signed up for any in the first place.
Unfortunately, only 6 of the 14 teams have signed up for any matches this month, which leaves us with very limited options. It seems all the other teams are busy.
Unfortunately, only 6 of the 14 teams have signed up for any matches this month, which leaves us with very limited options. It seems all the other teams are busy.
Would it be possible to add more teams to the "league"? I know originally the idea was to not spread the money too thin because having more teams means having more matches per month with a fixed amount of money during the month but with so few teams signing up would it be feasible to add more teams?
Unfortunately, only 6 of the 14 teams have signed up for any matches this month, which leaves us with very limited options. It seems all the other teams are busy.
Would it be possible to add more teams to the "league"? I know originally the idea was to not spread the money too thin because having more teams means having more matches per month with a fixed amount of money during the month but with so few teams signing up would it be feasible to add more teams?
Maybe have the teams not in the original roster play some "exhibition matches", and if they're entertaining maybe consider picking them up? Y'know, for when times are slow and the big teams aren't biting.
On May 31 2015 02:46 MaxiTB wrote: No I got that one, it just felt to me that Season 1 was a little bit more diverse along the teams. So I figured, maybe there's a schedule laid out
Well there is a schedule for matches, but it's up to the teams to sign up for the different dates and those teams that have had zero matches have not signed up for any in the first place.
Since it's not a teamleague i assume you don't have "disqualification rules" to replace them with other teams ? (well maybe there's no other teams that want to play)
On May 31 2015 02:46 MaxiTB wrote: No I got that one, it just felt to me that Season 1 was a little bit more diverse along the teams. So I figured, maybe there's a schedule laid out
Well there is a schedule for matches, but it's up to the teams to sign up for the different dates and those teams that have had zero matches have not signed up for any in the first place.
Since it's not a teamleague i assume you don't have "disqualification rules" to replace them with other teams ? (well maybe there's no other teams that want to play)
There arent really that many other teams on the appropriate level to play in the first place.
On May 31 2015 02:46 MaxiTB wrote: No I got that one, it just felt to me that Season 1 was a little bit more diverse along the teams. So I figured, maybe there's a schedule laid out
Well there is a schedule for matches, but it's up to the teams to sign up for the different dates and those teams that have had zero matches have not signed up for any in the first place.
Since it's not a teamleague i assume you don't have "disqualification rules" to replace them with other teams ? (well maybe there's no other teams that want to play)
There arent really that many other teams on the appropriate level to play in the first place.
On June 07 2015 09:56 Shellshock wrote: pretty easy day for myi
I want to see Ascension play Prime because I'm not actually sure how that would go. I THINK Prime would score the win but I'm saddened by the fact that I don't think I'd bet money on that
On May 31 2015 02:46 MaxiTB wrote: No I got that one, it just felt to me that Season 1 was a little bit more diverse along the teams. So I figured, maybe there's a schedule laid out
Well there is a schedule for matches, but it's up to the teams to sign up for the different dates and those teams that have had zero matches have not signed up for any in the first place.
Since it's not a teamleague i assume you don't have "disqualification rules" to replace them with other teams ? (well maybe there's no other teams that want to play)
There arent really that many other teams on the appropriate level to play in the first place.
Just of the top of my head (and after quick look just to be sure) there are Imaginary Gaming, Team Property, Redbloods,Cascade and BrawL eSports. Not sure if Invasion eSport can field 5 players, but The0, Harstem and Gumiho all are very good players, I have seen IMComingHome GenjiTakiya and Quent recently, but don´t think they are up to par with players in Clan Wars. Still, I think this is quite a few. I´m still really happy with this season, it is only competitive SC2 I watch, as I´m not a big fan of streams (don´t see any advantage) and your VODs are simply best out there, when co-casters join in, it only gets better .
On May 31 2015 02:46 MaxiTB wrote: No I got that one, it just felt to me that Season 1 was a little bit more diverse along the teams. So I figured, maybe there's a schedule laid out
Well there is a schedule for matches, but it's up to the teams to sign up for the different dates and those teams that have had zero matches have not signed up for any in the first place.
Since it's not a teamleague i assume you don't have "disqualification rules" to replace them with other teams ? (well maybe there's no other teams that want to play)
There arent really that many other teams on the appropriate level to play in the first place.
Just of the top of my head (and after quick look just to be sure) there are Imaginary Gaming, Team Property, Redbloods,Cascade and BrawL eSports. Not sure if Invasion eSport can field 5 players, but The0, Harstem and Gumiho all are very good players, I have seen IMComingHome GenjiTakiya and Quent recently, but don´t think they are up to par with players in Clan Wars. Still, I think this is quite a few. I´m still really happy with this season, it is only competitive SC2 I watch, as I´m not a big fan of streams (don´t see any advantage) and your VODs are simply best out there, when co-casters join in, it only gets better .
I might have words with a couple of them, see who is worth inviting. Some of those teams have people who are BM little shits and I'd rather not have them in the event, but grabbing a couple would be good for the roster.
On May 31 2015 02:46 MaxiTB wrote: No I got that one, it just felt to me that Season 1 was a little bit more diverse along the teams. So I figured, maybe there's a schedule laid out
Well there is a schedule for matches, but it's up to the teams to sign up for the different dates and those teams that have had zero matches have not signed up for any in the first place.
Since it's not a teamleague i assume you don't have "disqualification rules" to replace them with other teams ? (well maybe there's no other teams that want to play)
There arent really that many other teams on the appropriate level to play in the first place.
Just of the top of my head (and after quick look just to be sure) there are Imaginary Gaming, Team Property, Redbloods,Cascade and BrawL eSports. Not sure if Invasion eSport can field 5 players, but The0, Harstem and Gumiho all are very good players, I have seen IMComingHome GenjiTakiya and Quent recently, but don´t think they are up to par with players in Clan Wars. Still, I think this is quite a few. I´m still really happy with this season, it is only competitive SC2 I watch, as I´m not a big fan of streams (don´t see any advantage) and your VODs are simply best out there, when co-casters join in, it only gets better .
I might have words with a couple of them, see who is worth inviting. Some of those teams have people who are BM little shits and I'd rather not have them in the event, but grabbing a couple would be good for the roster.
Would personally love to see Imaginary Gaming and Cascade. Their players seem nice and I always enjoy their games, especially Complain, Adonminus, Kas and Welmu. I have listed all teams that are above the level of current weakest Clan War team from my perspective. Hope all goes well with, well, everything . EDIT: Also, just out of curiosity, why wasn´t there 2v2 in TA vs mYi? Not that I mind, not a big fan of 2v2, just didn´t expect it and found no answer in Liquipedia page, OP or YT Description.
It's fucking shameful that teams don't want to sign up for this. Acer players aren't doing shit all right now, Teamliquid has a enough players sitting around that they could play, and yet they never do. I completely wouldn't blame you if you shut this thing down TB. At least some of the Korean teams try, but still, the same 4 teams gets boring.
I can't believe so many of those teams didn't sign up for this month. Potential $500 for one showmatch, great exposure for the team, great experience for less known players. I don't get it.
On June 17 2015 15:02 SetGuitarsToKill wrote: It's fucking shameful that teams don't want to sign up for this. Acer players aren't doing shit all right now, Teamliquid has a enough players sitting around that they could play, and yet they never do. I completely wouldn't blame you if you shut this thing down TB. At least some of the Korean teams try, but still, the same 4 teams gets boring.
I'm losing so much respect for so many teams as this continues to happen. =/
Looks like dates are now up (on the google calendar all teams have access to) for July. Be sure to tweet at the teams on the list to remind them to sign up!
I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
That's not necessarily wrong, but consider this: the first iteration of the Clan Wars also had some very unorthodox maps (quite a few of them, really). The teams that signed up for participation knew well beforehand what they were in for. If they're not willing to play on these maps they shouldn't have signed up. So I expect there may be other reasons involved why for example Team Liquid hasn't played a series yet while mYinsanity has played 5.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
we did not have participation problems in the first Clan Wars and that was when teams were actually busy since there were more tournaments, so I suggest your point is pure speculation and little more than that.
Teams not wanting to learn the maps? I have little sympathy. What good are you as a progamer if you can't adapt to something a bit out of the ordinary? Indeed one could argue that one of the reasons Starcraft is dying off is its awful stale map design and thats a status quo that gets propped up by those progamers who complain whenever a map does something a bit unusual.
Invasion would be able to field 5 players fore sure I think. Lambo (current EPS champion ) has a lot of experience in LotV already and is at least as strong as TLO in HotS. With CPU, Harstem, Theo and Top they have a solid lineup even if Gumiho would not play, would love to see them!
Indeed one could argue that one of the reasons Starcraft is dying off is its awful stale map design and thats a status quo that gets propped up by those progamers who complain whenever a map does something a bit unusual.
My point is that many of these maps seems contain changes for the sake of "spiking up the meta". Instead, I would prefer to see changes inteded to adress specific issues with Sc2. E.g. what if someone experimented with balancing protoss around a strong core army instead of Forcefields? Or someone had a "cool" redesign solution to boring units like the Colossus?
If an intenlligent and (decently) tested solution was added to the mappool, wouldn't this be something alot of viewers and players could be interested in?
Another example: What about testing a map/mod with 0 damage point on units (DP = the time a unit needs to stand still before it attacks). If players played on a map/mod where the game was balanced around more responsive units, wouldn't that have the potential to be awesome to?
I don't think that the reason Sc2 is dying is due to lack of "crazy" map mechanics. Rather it's mainly due to lack of great unit design. So I think it would be more interesting to use the Clan Wars as a way to make high level players test stuff that Blizzard for unknown reasons aren't interested in testing them selves.
Indeed, Starbow was added last year, but that wasn't a project intended to "fix" Sc2. What I am looking more at is basing the mod/map of Sc2 and experimenting with a couple of very specific changes that the majority of the community would like to see.
are NA teams allowed to try here? Granted they are usually not an exact match for premier teams like TL, ROOT, etc... but would like to play anyway. I'm specifically talking PSISTORM Gaming, TASC, etc...
On June 17 2015 13:33 ClanWars wrote: Baguette vs ROOT lineup is finally sorted, event is on the calender.
Outside of that, 2 more events this month, other fixtures were canceled due to lack of team sign ups.
We wasn't aware that teams could "sign up"? Karnage would love to take part!
They can't, it's a calender in which there are dates that the teams on the roster can indicate "yes" or "no" for, after which a matchup is chosen.
problem is over half the teams didnt even bother to fill out either of those in the month of June, resulting in several cancellations and some less than top-tier matchups.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Haven't you previosuly had problems with not enough players not being prepared for the maps? And now you don't have enough teams signing up. If all of the players loved practicing on these maps, wouldn't you see more activity, and wouldn't lots of casuals play on them as well? Wouldn't more people talk about it?
I get the feeling that the only reason anyone would practice on these maps is to improve their chances of earning money in the clan war. Do you have examples of the contrary being the case: E.g. multiple players playing on these maps out of pure passion?
nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Standard maps? I wrote that the maps should contain changes that intend to fix specific flaws in Starcraft.
Are the viewernumbers - giving the TB brand value/twitter following - impressive? From my perspective, it would make sense that you could increase viewer numbers if it was branded as having popular changes that the community want to see. I mean, this a story that can be sold to both casuals and hardcore fans right?
GG. That was a good show ! I rejoin the opinion that with a standard map pool (that could be different from the ladder, just pick the best maps) Shoutcraft clan war would look like a proleague for foreigners, and THAT would be crazy ! That could happen only if the teams have actually real interest in it, of course.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Haven't you previosuly had problems with not enough players not being prepared for the maps? And now you don't have enough teams signing up. If all of the players loved practicing on these maps, wouldn't you see more activity, and wouldn't lots of casuals play on them as well? Wouldn't more people talk about it?
I get the feeling that the only reason anyone would practice on these maps is to improve their chances of earning money in the clan war. Do you have examples of the contrary being the case: E.g. multiple players playing on these maps out of pure passion?
nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Standard maps? That clearly wasn't what I wrote. I wrote that the maps should contain changes that intend to fix specific flaws in Starcraft.
Are the viewernumbers - giving the TB brand value/twitter following - impressive? From my perspective, it would make sense that you could increase viewer numbers if it was branded as having popular changes that the community want to see. I mean, this a story that can be sold to both casuals and hardcore fans right?
Not really sure what you're getting at at this point. Are you asking for TB to use clan wars to test out balance changes? Are you asking him to include maps that have design changes? And if so, what exactly are you proposing? Grandstanding aspirations are great, but concrete maps with clear designs are better. After all, if you're asking to test out balance changes, wouldn't that create the same disincentivization that would be associated with practicing a different map? Perhaps even more so considering that they're more liable to tear up foundations?
And I don't understand what you mean by playing for passion. Why would progamers play this for passion when most of these maps are played almost exclusively in this tournament? That seems like asking someone to go back to play Daybreak a hundred times because it was a great map. I mean, yes, players will practice when incentivized with money; isn't that the entire point of the prize pool?
After all, if you're asking to test out balance changes, wouldn't that create the same disincentivization that would be associated with practicing a different map?
(design changes not balance).
Sure that has a learning curve too (perhaps higher), but it has clear advantages: To inspire Blizzard! Or to satisfy the need of the communtiy to see what the game could like look if all of the stuff we are theoretizing about was implemented.
I honestly have a difficult time seeing the purpose of "crazy" map mechanics. If it is something that could generate a lot more viewers than design changes, sure, okay that would make sense, but I am not convinced that's actually the case.
And I think Totalbiscuit - from having listened to his opinions over the years - would be interested in testing the design changes. I guess that was probably the reason Starbow was implemented in the first place. But obviously Starbow was a misfit as it wasn't intended to inspire Blizzard or test improvements to Starcraft 2.
Why would progamers play this for passion when most of these maps are played almost exclusively in this tournament?
Passion in this context = You play it because its fun even if it doesn't grant you any "career" advantages. So if the maps were made for the players, then you would still see some players play this when not practicising for the tournament. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
So what is the advantage of having a clan war with weird map mechanics over a clan war that tests design changes.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Would you be open to having secondary teams? I would love to make Team Canada and compete vs other teams a bit like what we had last summer with nationwars. If not, maybe one day, team baguette will recruit me in their bakery.
After all, if you're asking to test out balance changes, wouldn't that create the same disincentivization that would be associated with practicing a different map?
(design changes not balance).
Sure that has a learning curve too (perhaps higher), but it has clear advantages: To inspire Blizzard! Or to satisfy the need of the communtiy to see what the game could like look if all of the stuff we are theoretizing about was implemented.
I honestly have a difficult time seeing the purpose of "crazy" map mechanics. If it is something that could generate a lot more viewers than design changes, sure, okay that would make sense, but I am not convinced that's actually the case.
And I think Totalbiscuit - from having listened to his opinions over the years - would be interested in testing the design changes. I guess that was probably the reason Starbow was implemented in the first place. But obviously Starbow was a misfit as it wasn't intended to inspire Blizzard or test improvements to Starcraft 2.
Why would progamers play this for passion when most of these maps are played almost exclusively in this tournament?
Passion in this context = You play it because its fun even if it doesn't grant you any "career" advantages. So if the maps were made for the players, then you would still see some players play this when not practicising for the tournament. But that doesn't seem to be the case.
So what is the advantage of having a clan war with weird map mechanics over a clan war that tests design changes.
If it's design changes that you seek, what matters does the map shape take? Just make those mods that can be transcribed to any map like Gameheart (unless that's not possible... I'm not well-versed in modding).
If you want each map to have its own set of changes, that can be far more demanding for the players to practice than what exists currently.
Finally, if the changes aren't radical enough or is out of reach (for instance, perhaps the role of the ultralisk is changed, or really anything to do with carriers), what guarantee is there that the game won't be played out standard? Late game units are particularly susceptible at being left out if the game closes out early with a timing attack. If a game goes standard without showcasing what it's supposed to, that kills the point of testing design changes, no? Players aren't incentivized to test out the units on the stage, they're incentivized to win, so if they see something bad that we don't during practice and because of that reason they never utilize the changes, we as viewers don't actually get an opportunity to critique them to begin with. (We can prod them for answers, but that can have similarly varying results.) Maps themselves don't suffer this because the map itself is always showcased no matter the changes in the parameters of units; even if the acid is completely avoided or rocks are never tipped over or cannons are never taken, the map itself still lends a unique format of parameters (number of bases, rush distance, etc.) from which "standard" is slightly different and interesting to identify (presuming maps don't stick around so long as to stagnate).
And I still don't really get the argument why progamers would or should play these maps out of passion. I mean no offense to the mapmakers; it's just simply more pragmatic to practice maps more common to big league and individual tournaments because of both the ladder system and the obvious incentives. I don't follow streamers a lot, but beyond common arcade archetypes and single-player mods, I don't see a lot of them playing around with maps not within ladder or tournament range. It just doesn't seem like a topically relevant argument.
So I posit the question again: What exactly do you mean by "implementing design changes"? Even a single example would clarify the ambiguity.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Would you be open to having secondary teams? I would love to make Team Canada and compete vs other teams a bit like what we had last summer with nationwars. If not, maybe one day, team baguette will recruit me in their bakery.
Tell ya what. Rustle up a roster and let me know who you've got and we'll see.
Another VOD is up guys, this looks to be a good one .
Root are gr8 and I like Hydra more and more, with him being active in so many tournaments and still showing up here. I respect other top root players in WCS and other big tournaments to let their less exposed teammates play, but I just to praise the French guys, they play around the world, bring amazing results and still find time to represent their country in Clan Wars, you just got to respect that. Plus they put out some amazing games, love those guys, and love French Alps, just wish you would learn English :D .
On June 18 2015 05:00 royalroadweed wrote: I can't believe TB put in gowser and left out nerchio when talking about top foreign wol zergs.
Just out of curiosity, how long was that list? Because I'm not sure, whether I would put Goswser on a top-20 list of foreign WoL-zergs.
Team Canda sound good though, the Showmatch format allows it to be a bit more open to nations or other groups, that aren't technically teams to be included, would look forward to have a few national teams battleing it out with the rest of the teams as well.
As for standard maps, I really didn´t like the unique map pool in the beginning, but when I tested the maps out, they turned out to be playable just fine, as long as you knew them. That said, if standard maps would mean more games, I would definitely like that, but benefit of interesting strategies on strange maps is, to me at least, pretty much equal to benefit of seeing more standard matches on maps similar to the ones I play on. To be honest, what really sets this apart for me are the top of the notch VODs, the main reason why I watch this is only SC2 I watch .
On June 18 2015 05:00 royalroadweed wrote: I can't believe TB put in gowser and left out nerchio when talking about top foreign wol zergs.
Just out of curiosity, how long was that list? Because I'm not sure, whether I would put Goswser on a top-20 list of foreign WoL-zergs.
Team Canda sound good though, the Showmatch format allows it to be a bit more open to nations or other groups, that aren't technically teams to be included, would look forward to have a few national teams battleing it out with the rest of the teams as well.
On June 18 2015 05:00 royalroadweed wrote: I can't believe TB put in gowser and left out nerchio when talking about top foreign wol zergs.
Just out of curiosity, how long was that list? Because I'm not sure, whether I would put Goswser on a top-20 list of foreign WoL-zergs.
Team Canda sound good though, the Showmatch format allows it to be a bit more open to nations or other groups, that aren't technically teams to be included, would look forward to have a few national teams battleing it out with the rest of the teams as well.
Most of Goswser's performances were on HotS though.
On June 19 2015 04:28 MrFreeman wrote: As for standard maps, I really didn´t like the unique map pool in the beginning, but when I tested the maps out, they turned out to be playable just fine, as long as you knew them. That said, if standard maps would mean more games, I would definitely like that, but benefit of interesting strategies on strange maps is, to me at least, pretty much equal to benefit of seeing more standard matches on maps similar to the ones I play on. To be honest, what really sets this apart for me are the top of the notch VODs, the main reason why I watch this is only SC2 I watch .
It's worth noting that NO teams have come to me complaining about the map pool so far. If they are really not signing up because of that then they have refused to say so.
On June 18 2015 05:00 royalroadweed wrote: I can't believe TB put in gowser and left out nerchio when talking about top foreign wol zergs.
Just out of curiosity, how long was that list? Because I'm not sure, whether I would put Goswser on a top-20 list of foreign WoL-zergs.
Team Canda sound good though, the Showmatch format allows it to be a bit more open to nations or other groups, that aren't technically teams to be included, would look forward to have a few national teams battleing it out with the rest of the teams as well.
Dunno. For wol it was stephano, nerchio being a distant second, then idra. After that, who cares?
On June 18 2015 05:00 royalroadweed wrote: I can't believe TB put in gowser and left out nerchio when talking about top foreign wol zergs.
Just out of curiosity, how long was that list? Because I'm not sure, whether I would put Goswser on a top-20 list of foreign WoL-zergs.
Team Canda sound good though, the Showmatch format allows it to be a bit more open to nations or other groups, that aren't technically teams to be included, would look forward to have a few national teams battleing it out with the rest of the teams as well.
Most of Goswser's performances were on HotS though.
Yes, that was, what I was thinking. In early HoTs he was quite good for a time, even finishing in the semifinals of a DH once. But in WoL itself he earned less money than sYz or Kenzy. But anyway, this shouldn't matter to much (I was surprised to be quoted that often), since it was just a question about a single comment, so we should probably go back to topic.
On June 18 2015 05:00 royalroadweed wrote: I can't believe TB put in gowser and left out nerchio when talking about top foreign wol zergs.
Just out of curiosity, how long was that list? Because I'm not sure, whether I would put Goswser on a top-20 list of foreign WoL-zergs.
Team Canda sound good though, the Showmatch format allows it to be a bit more open to nations or other groups, that aren't technically teams to be included, would look forward to have a few national teams battleing it out with the rest of the teams as well.
Dunno. For wol it was stephano, nerchio being a distant second, then idra. After that, who cares?
Well, DIMAGA and Sen deserve some credit. TLO and Ret were also pretty decent most of the time. Sheth, moonglade, Darkforce and sometimes Haypro had their moments. Scarlett, Vortix and Snute began to rise at the end of WoL.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Would you be open to having secondary teams? I would love to make Team Canada and compete vs other teams a bit like what we had last summer with nationwars. If not, maybe one day, team baguette will recruit me in their bakery.
Tell ya what. Rustle up a roster and let me know who you've got and we'll see.
I wasn't clear in my post, I would like to have HuK and Scarlett in my team Canada roster, would that be a problem with the system that you have in place? If it is, I still think I could come up with a potentially decent roster, but maybe not up to your standards
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Would you be open to having secondary teams? I would love to make Team Canada and compete vs other teams a bit like what we had last summer with nationwars. If not, maybe one day, team baguette will recruit me in their bakery.
Tell ya what. Rustle up a roster and let me know who you've got and we'll see.
I wasn't clear in my post, I would like to have HuK and Scarlett in my team Canada roster, would that be a problem with the system that you have in place? If it is, I still think I could come up with a potentially decent roster, but maybe not up to your standards
I think you need at least 5 people for a team, since you have to field at least that many for the 5 1v1 matches per series. You can double field for the 2v2 though, so 5 is the minimum.
On June 17 2015 23:17 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: I dont watch because I dislike the maps... Can it be the same for the teams that dont want to partake? Is it a TB thing?
also the line ups are generally weak ( from what I have watched).
the sandisk tourney he made last year was so epic. Its THE best online event I have ever seen. The Flash BByong series was so sick! Make another one of these instead plz TB!
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Would you be open to having secondary teams? I would love to make Team Canada and compete vs other teams a bit like what we had last summer with nationwars. If not, maybe one day, team baguette will recruit me in their bakery.
Tell ya what. Rustle up a roster and let me know who you've got and we'll see.
I wasn't clear in my post, I would like to have HuK and Scarlett in my team Canada roster, would that be a problem with the system that you have in place? If it is, I still think I could come up with a potentially decent roster, but maybe not up to your standards
I think you need at least 5 people for a team, since you have to field at least that many for the 5 1v1 matches per series. You can double field for the 2v2 though, so 5 is the minimum.
He's asking whether players from other teams can also be on his team.
The teams knew about the different types of maps well before signing up as league participants. Having strange maps is a huge part of the very concept of this Shoutcraft iteration.
But honestly its just not a good concept. Making drastic new maps creates a learning barrier, and that's only a good thing if it leads to significantly better gameplay. But too a large extent, many of these changes are merely changes for the sake of changes, and players just doesn't wanna bother learning that.
Most of the games have been really lame as a result.
I highly doubt that the maps or the learning barrier are that absurd.
Looking at the more eccentric maps, the only difference on Engines of War are the cannons, which tends to whittle down gameplay to two bases, but generally plays out normally if both players are alert (and don't lose three overlords). Crazy Clash allows you to open standard, as the gimmicks don't really have a major impact on the early game (mid game, possibilities open up). 2v2s are always going to be a real toss-up, no matter how many gimmicks you add in. LotV has its hiccups, but it's LotV, there's plenty of interest in that.
The only real game-changer is Peninsula, where the mining rates really differs from most other maps, and that plays a big role in build orders and other expectations.
The other maps can be viewed as fairly close to standard maps, something that might be expected of future ladders, for instance.
Still, what is the point of these maps? Totalbiscuit definitely seems interested in wanting to see new stuff in Starcraft, but if neither the viewing quality is improved nor the players like to practice and play them, shouldn't the concept be reevaluated?
My proposal was to use the clan wars as a way to experiment with changes that the community wants to see but Blizzard for (unknown reasons) are hesistant to test/implement.
the problem Hider is that this is purely your opinion and the teams have not expressed any desire to play on standard maps in this tournament, nor have the viewers expressed desire to see standard maps.
Would you be open to having secondary teams? I would love to make Team Canada and compete vs other teams a bit like what we had last summer with nationwars. If not, maybe one day, team baguette will recruit me in their bakery.
Tell ya what. Rustle up a roster and let me know who you've got and we'll see.
I wasn't clear in my post, I would like to have HuK and Scarlett in my team Canada roster, would that be a problem with the system that you have in place? If it is, I still think I could come up with a potentially decent roster, but maybe not up to your standards
I think you need at least 5 people for a team, since you have to field at least that many for the 5 1v1 matches per series. You can double field for the 2v2 though, so 5 is the minimum.
He's asking whether players from other teams can also be on his team.
Oh I'm an idiot, I thought he was asking if he could just have him Huk and Scarlett
but Clan Who? overlaps players with other teams (iaguz, Petraeus, Blysk) so I don't see that being a problem either. Of course it'd TBs call though.
well TB tried, pro gamers gave a fuck. I get why Koreans don't care but why foreigners? As if they are ever going to play for more than not dropping out of wcs or the rare chance of placing high in region locked wcs.
1) Sun Cross - (T)intense vs (T)iaguz 2) Klyskada - (Z)Kamker vs (T)Kelazhur 3) Engines of War - (Z)NoRegreT vs (Z)Hydra 4) Peninsula - (Z)bioice vs (Z)SolO 5) (2v2) Neo Skywalker - (Z)bioice and (Z)NoRegreT vs (T)iaguz and (Z)Hydra 6) (LOTV) Orbital Shipyard – (T)RuFF vs (T)SuperNova 7) ((P)AcE) Neo Emerald Plaza
On June 21 2015 23:37 ClanWars wrote: 1) Sun Cross - (T)intense vs (T)iaguz 2) Klyskada - (Z)Kamker vs (T)Kelazhur 3) Engines of War - (Z)NoRegreT vs (Z)Hydra 4) Peninsula - (Z)bioice vs (Z)SolO 5) (2v2) Neo Skywalker - (Z)bioice and (Z)NoRegreT vs (T)iaguz and (Z)Hydra 6) (LOTV) Orbital Shipyard – (T)RuFF vs (T)SuperNova 7) ((P)AcE) Neo Emerald Plaza
On June 21 2015 23:37 ClanWars wrote: 1) Sun Cross - (T)intense vs (T)iaguz 2) Klyskada - (Z)Kamker vs (T)Kelazhur 3) Engines of War - (Z)NoRegreT vs (Z)Hydra 4) Peninsula - (Z)bioice vs (Z)SolO 5) (2v2) Neo Skywalker - (Z)bioice and (Z)NoRegreT vs (T)iaguz and (Z)Hydra 6) (LOTV) Orbital Shipyard – (T)RuFF vs (T)SuperNova 7) ((P)AcE) Neo Emerald Plaza
On June 22 2015 03:57 ClanWars wrote: getting really tired of this
Screw 'em.
If they don't want easy money, and prefer to endlessly practice for league, take away their toys. Throw open the doors to people who're in it for the show (and/or cash).
Get a half-dozen reliable retirees who're good enough to be interesting but are apathetic enough to not care about winning (i.e. pay them a flat $50 for showing up), and just put on handicapped prize fights next time around.
Make them do 2-v-1s against Jesse and Crendor. Or match up two pros, half the cost of everything for one of them but make him have to play by shouting instructions to Crendor over Skype.
Limit pylons. Do dice rolls for marines spazzing out and killing friendlies. Turn over (partial) control of the acid rises to a vote in chat. Use a small, consistent roster but introduce chaos to keep things fresh.
Or just guarantee a small number of reliable people an appearance fee with a win bonus, and let them cheese their brains out in a best of five.
Personally, I would rather have bad-and-funny matches than call-offs.
C'z as it stands, the crap that people keep pulling means you're getting a few thousand people showing up for the stream just to hear "Oh, no more matches today because someone's gone to take an excessively long shit."
On June 22 2015 03:57 ClanWars wrote: getting really tired of this
My man, can a player be on 2 rosters at once (HuK, Scarlett, Kane)? ı want to make Team Canada a thing but my first question wasn't clear enough to start bothering everyone about it.
On June 22 2015 03:57 ClanWars wrote: getting really tired of this
My man, can a player be on 2 rosters at once (HuK, Scarlett, Kane)? ı want to make Team Canada a thing but my first question wasn't clear enough to start bothering everyone about it.
The players of the team "Clan Who?" are on 2 teams at once (iaguz also plays for ROOT, for example).
I just hope MLG is OK with this, all this rescheduling and less matches mean less exposure for them. Also, is there a way to watch VODs on MLG instead of YT? I would rather use platform, that actually makes this event happen...
On June 23 2015 15:14 Alnydesr wrote: Did the last clan war go so bad there won't even be a vod?
I haven´t seen it, so I don´t worry about spoilers, but since they´ve said bioice didn´t show, ROOT didn´t agree to a replacement and that ended a match, that means only 1) Sun Cross - intense vs iaguz 2) Klyskada - Kamker vs Kelazhur 3) Engines of War - NoRegreT vs Hydra took place, so there is not that much to watch. Still would like to see them though.
I just don't get it. MLG is putting quite a lot of money into this. The vods on YT can compete with WCS or GSL in terms of view count. Clan Wars seem to be generally very popular amongst viewers. What a great way to get new fans, possibly attract new sponsors and earn some money for playing a couple of maps, isn't it? Do the players expect money and fame to be brought to them on a silver platter?
I hope it gets better. I like Clan Wars above all the other tournaments. It brings something new to the scene which makes watching SC2 even more enjoyable. I wish the players saw it the same way.
So disappointed that the last Clan War couldn't be uploaded because of how bad it was, I've been unable to catch 'em live lately. Seriously players, get your shizz together. Or has it just become about the money and not the reputation? Because damn some of them must be tanking in the latter department with all this no-show and poor play.
blaming players who are young people trying to make it in an unstable field and making wild allegations like "they want fame on a silver platter" is ridiculous, i get that people are disappointed when they don't get quality local content like they're expecting but shitting on the very players you want to watch is kind of stupid
it's kids and young adults playing games in an unsteady market, not professionals abusing their clients, if you want the content to happen then stay positive and constructive instead of looking for excuses to trash people
On June 25 2015 04:32 brickrd wrote: blaming players who are young people trying to make it in an unstable field and making wild allegations like "they want fame on a silver platter" is ridiculous, i get that people are disappointed when they don't get quality local content like they're expecting but shitting on the very players you want to watch is kind of stupid
it's kids and young adults playing games in an unsteady market, not professionals abusing their clients, if you want the content to happen then stay positive and constructive instead of looking for excuses to trash people
Don't get me wrong, I've had great time watching Clan Wars and am grateful to everyone for making this possible, including the players. However, the last weeks were just miserable and it shows even on TB. It even looks like he's not getting any proper feedback from the teams as to why they don't want to participate. Maybe it's bad team management but players can still drop a "can't now, will play later" or something. Signing up and then being silent is just not cool.
On June 25 2015 04:32 brickrd wrote: blaming players who are young people trying to make it in an unstable field and making wild allegations like "they want fame on a silver platter" is ridiculous, i get that people are disappointed when they don't get quality local content like they're expecting but shitting on the very players you want to watch is kind of stupid
it's kids and young adults playing games in an unsteady market, not professionals abusing their clients, if you want the content to happen then stay positive and constructive instead of looking for excuses to trash people
Don't get me wrong, I've had great time watching Clan Wars and am grateful to everyone for making this possible, including the players. However, the last weeks were just miserable and it shows even on TB. It even looks like he's not getting any proper feedback from the teams as to why they don't want to participate. Maybe it's bad team management but players can still drop a "can't now, will play later" or something. Signing up and then being silent is just not cool.
No teams have ever provided feedback on non-attendance. That said at least Acer is now signing up to events, which leaves only TL having never done so.
On June 25 2015 19:48 Spect8rCraft wrote: How is July looking to shape up?
Some matches. Still missing a good number of teams and trying to avoid rematches or blatant mismatches as best as possible.
Maybe you should allow rematches so that the losers can regain their honor but on the condition that they don't field the same players on the same maps and that they use a different 2v2 team than in the first match.
Finally, if the changes aren't radical enough or is out of reach (for instance, perhaps the role of the ultralisk is changed, or really anything to do with carriers), what guarantee is there that the game won't be played out standard? Late game units are particularly susceptible at being left out if the game closes out early with a timing attack. If a game goes standard without showcasing what it's supposed to, that kills the point of testing design changes, no?
So the worst case scenario you bring up is that we get a normal Sc2 game. Doesn't sound that awfull to me. And that's only relevant if the mod changes only contain late game changes (e.g. to Ultralisk).
What if we are talking about 0 damage point to all ranged units. That would make every game different. Or protoss gets a strong core composition without relying on force fields. That would make every protoss game different as well.
With regards to "only care about winning", I think that if you make some changes to a specific composition that require adaption from the opponent (e.g. changes to mech), then a lesser skilled player will be able to practice mech a lot on this mod before the CW and if he goes up against a crazy korean mechanical god, he will have a better chance than if he played straight up bio/normal sc2 style. Thus, I find it very likely that a high percentage of games will contain new stuff.
And I still don't really get the argument why progamers would or should play these maps out of passion
Your missing my point here. I am trying to look at the advantages that these crazy maps bring. What is their purpose? I then looked at it from the perspective of viewers, "hardcore community" and players and I couldn't see it benefit either target group.
With regards to passion, my point was that if these maps were made to make it more fun for players, then more players would play the maps. And yes pro players do not only do stuff that increases their probability of being relevant in the Sc2 scene. Hence why many play other games like Hearthstone and MOBA's. The same simply isn't the case for these maps.
On June 25 2015 19:48 Spect8rCraft wrote: How is July looking to shape up?
Some matches. Still missing a good number of teams and trying to avoid rematches or blatant mismatches as best as possible.
Maybe you should allow rematches so that the losers can regain their honor but on the condition that they don't field the same players on the same maps and that they use a different 2v2 team than in the first match.
Absolutely, the problem is when I look at a lot of the potential matchups based on signups, many of them consist of
Just as a personal opinion and all that, I wouldn't mind watching rematches. Heck, even if some of the match-ups were the same it could be really fun to watch someone try to get revenge for a previous loss.
ROOT's lost 4-3 three times this season? Having rematches where they try to find that extra edge to turn that number around sounds pretty compelling and fun to watch, for me.
Finally, if the changes aren't radical enough or is out of reach (for instance, perhaps the role of the ultralisk is changed, or really anything to do with carriers), what guarantee is there that the game won't be played out standard? Late game units are particularly susceptible at being left out if the game closes out early with a timing attack. If a game goes standard without showcasing what it's supposed to, that kills the point of testing design changes, no?
So the worst case scenario you bring up is that we get a normal Sc2 game. Doesn't sound that awfull to me. And that's only relevant if the mod changes only contain late game changes (e.g. to Ultralisk).
What if we are talking about 0 damage point to all ranged units. That would make every game different. Or protoss gets a strong core composition without relying on force fields. That would make every protoss game different as well.
With regards to "only care about winning", I think that if you make some changes to a specific composition that require adaption from the opponent (e.g. changes to mech), then a lesser skilled player will be able to practice mech a lot on this mod before the CW and if he goes up against a crazy korean mechanical god, he will have a better chance than if he played straight up bio/normal sc2 style. Thus, I find it very likely that a high percentage of games will contain new stuff.
And I still don't really get the argument why progamers would or should play these maps out of passion
Your missing my point here. I am trying to look at the advantages that these crazy maps bring. What is their purpose? I then looked at it from the perspective of viewers, "hardcore community" and players and I couldn't see it benefit either target group.
With regards to passion, my point was that if these maps were made to make it more fun for players, then more players would play the maps. And yes pro players do not only do stuff that increases their probability of being relevant in the Sc2 scene. Hence why many play other games like Hearthstone and MOBA's. The same simply isn't the case for these maps.
I feel like the comparison to a few maps obscure to all but this tournament with MOBAs and Hearthstone is a bit of a stretch. Those games have established ladders and a bountiful supply of players to match up in their system; these maps are better suited for custom matches. It's almost like comparing the availability of couch co-op versus an actual matchmaking system; which one d'ya think will have a more eclectic set of players to fight against on-demand?
The advantage of these maps is to push players out of their comfort zone with strange and zany conditions. Compared to, say, balance and even design changes, the opportunity cost would favor the latter, but it's still sufficiently doing what it's intended to. Viewers get to watch players duke it out in odd environments, with occasionally hilarious results (at least for us), while players get to hide their best games for WCS while having a bit of fun. Meanwhile, players don't have to deviate so heavily from traditional build orders (with perhaps the exception of Peninsula and LotV for obvious reasons); they just have to adapt one or two elements to the map, and if things go south, there's enough preexisting resources there that they can understand how to (try to) right it.
You still haven't explained why the maps need to be changed as opposed to an extension mod (or set of mods) that could accomplish the same, nor whether the barrier to practice would really produce interesting games or will just have players fumbling about (like during the first series of the season, but worse). Recall that these maps don't rotate out very often; if you set all of the maps with the same design change parameters, then it's a test run and the maps themselves become irrelevant; if you set each map to a different design parameter, it makes it much more difficult to practice each map (especially ad-libbing ace matches) such that players or teams or even sponsor might not consider the amount of time needed to make good games to be worthwhile.
Although, it would be an interesting idea if, for a given series, one could switch it up and apply your suggestions. Since design and balance changes come and go, I think having the change for only a day or a week at most would be better as a way to get a feel of it, rather than having those changes stick around for months since Clan Wars doesn't have the fastest map rotation.
In an effort to supplement the rosters its my pleasure to invite the alliance of Team Gravity and Flipsid3 Tactics to the event. They will be fielding the following players.
On June 28 2015 00:24 ClanWars wrote: In an effort to supplement the rosters its my pleasure to invite the alliance of Team Gravity and Flipsid3 Tactics to the event. They will be fielding the following players.
The advantage of these maps is to push players out of their comfort zone with strange and zany conditions.
Who is this an advantage for? What target group is benefiting from this. Viewers?
You still haven't explained why the maps need to be changed as opposed to an extension mod (or set of mods) that could accomplish the same, nor whether the barrier to practice would really produce interesting games or will just have players fumbling about (like during the first series of the season, but worse). Recall that these maps don't rotate out very often; if you set all of the maps with the same design change parameters, then it's a test run and the maps themselves become irrelevant; if you set each map to a different design parameter, it makes it much more difficult to practice each map (especially ad-libbing ace matches) such that players or teams or even sponsor might not consider the amount of time needed to make good games to be worthwhile.
What I imagine is something like this:
Totalbiscuit finds a way to add in popular community suggestions into a mod that for one season is played on all maps. (Not so important to outline exactly how this could be done, but I have my ideas). Over the season patches to the mod could be made in order to improve balance/removed flawed stuff.
Could players fumble? Sure, just like they do in these Clan Wars.
But it's much more likely that they would be interested in playing the mod than playing maps with "crazy mechanics". Just look at DH where lots of high level players were willing to play on them during showmatches.
As for the rematch, i would love to have these since it could build up some nice rivalries. Even if it's the EXACT same players facing the EXACT same players on the EXACT same map !
Because rivalries are fun and everyone loves some KT vs SKT even if they field the same players
You still haven't explained why the maps need to be changed as opposed to an extension mod (or set of mods) that could accomplish the same, nor whether the barrier to practice would really produce interesting games or will just have players fumbling about (like during the first series of the season, but worse). Recall that these maps don't rotate out very often; if you set all of the maps with the same design change parameters, then it's a test run and the maps themselves become irrelevant; if you set each map to a different design parameter, it makes it much more difficult to practice each map (especially ad-libbing ace matches) such that players or teams or even sponsor might not consider the amount of time needed to make good games to be worthwhile.
What I imagine is something like this:
Totalbiscuit finds a way to add in popular community suggestions into a mod that for one season is played on all maps. (Not so important to outline exactly how this could be done, but I have my ideas). Over the season patches to the mod could be made in order to improve balance/removed flawed stuff.
Could players fumble? Sure, just like they do in these Clan Wars.
But it's much more likely that they would be interested in playing the mod than playing maps with "crazy mechanics". Just look at DH where lots of high level players were willing to play on them during showmatches.
As the quote suggested, the advantage is for the players to flex their mental muscles. People often forget that under the umbrella of "skill" includes "adaptability", and a few extra gimmicks to the map don't suddenly flip the board such that pros are left scrambling for months (barring the first few series, most matches seem to imply that players adjusted well enough to the oddities of most maps). I explained it in the paragraph you quoted a la paraphrase:
Meanwhile, players don't have to deviate so heavily from traditional build orders (with perhaps the exception of Peninsula and LotV for obvious reasons); they just have to adapt one or two elements to the map, and if things go south, there's enough preexisting resources there that they can understand how to (try to) right it.
There's also a distinction between playing a one-time showmatch, or a showmatch set, versus needing to adjust to ever-changing mods. Discarding a map because it's imba or unfun is easy, because the players can just forget about it; discarding or changing a design change that doesn't default back to the current balance and design levels can have serious ramifications for one side or another. There's also the issue of a dynamically-changing tournament scene, which would be a strange one even with the rather informal setting.
It all sounds like a good idea, in theory. But I don't see it convincingly enough that the sponsors (or TB) would accept it as a viable way of hosting a tournament. Who decides the patches for the mods? For what duration should they be made?
And most importantly, would teams and their players go along with it? Showmatches are one thing because it's individual players offering their free time for a little small-pot exhibition shooting; this is about teams investing their time and effort into practicing for something that could be all for naught. Clan Wars has already proven that maps do work, even if you wish to argue the efficacy of the extent of "working". Balance/design mods in Proleague format? It's a slightly taller order. Remember, Clan Wars has to maintain a standard of quality, so it can't consist entirely of ragtag alliance teams like Baguette; there has to be some legit coherent teams that would also play along (no offense to alliances or Baguette players or baguettes).
Funnily enough, this sounds a lot like the Tavern Brawl from Hearthstone.
I understand for Clan Who as its the alliance of SEA players but PtitDrogo is nB, playing for the French alliance, but I don't understand why he would also play for mYi
On June 30 2015 05:53 Yhamm wrote: I understand for Clan Who as its the alliance of SEA players but PtitDrogo is nB, playing for the French alliance, but I don't understand why he would also play for mYi
On July 02 2015 06:55 Elentos wrote: I can't get over this 8 immortal 10 sentry all-in of 1 base with a 20 minute expansion -.-
1 base immortal all-in is actually a fairly strong build
Yeah but... look at that game. I mean, you shouldn't be allowed to have enough money on 1 base for an army that strong and then a nexus at 20 minutes.
he was running dry, I think it's ok if you can stay on 1 base for long time. It would be stupid if 16 workers on 1 mineral line would net as much money as 16 on 2
On July 05 2015 00:49 CashForSanity wrote: Why no Clan Wars inclusion on the Events tab, btw?
I stopped submitting them far in advance because of cancellations and forfeits.
For instance, Acer vs ROOT is supposed to be tomorrow and Acer hasnt submitted their roster, they're 6 days late.
Since at least two of Acer's players are attending the HomeStory Cup, I would forgive them this time. Yet again, would be nice to drop a line if they had signed up for this date. (Why they did with HSC in sight is what I don't understand.)
The crappy organizational skills of apparently all of the pro teams is just depressing.
Actually, there's an idea that'd not only help SC2 pro gaming, but net some cash.
Expand into team management services. Hire 2-3 high quality secretaries and have them serve as organizational hubs and points of contact for team business. Lease them out as fronts for multiple teams.
Basically, steal the call centre model, but have them doing backroom strong-arm work for the team managers too - confirming dates, barraging absentees with text messages, glomming travel together so 3-4 teams can get bulk discount rates during mutual competitions, etc.
Even if it only ended up breaking even as a business venture, it'd let you wrap your hands around the throat of the entire SC2 pro gaming circuit.
So I will be bringing Clan Wars Season 2 to a close at the end of July. As you're probably aware we've been unable to do the 10 events a month that we arranged with MLG. This is due to lack of team sign-ups. We often have the same few teams signing up which would result on too much repetition. We've also had a number of canceled events. This is due to teams not following the structure and rules of the event and failing to submit their rosters in good time. The point of having this schedule was to allow for teams to properly prepare for their matches and hopefully generate high quality games as a result. The nature of the maps also required specific builds and specialist strategies. Teams have repeatedly failed to submit their rosters on time, which has made this impossible. When we have had events we've often seen low quality games and one-sided stomps, with some players making it keenly apparently that they had not practiced the map. Adding to this we have had a huge number of games where players simply didn't show up, resulting in walkovers.
As a result of all of these factors, its obvious that the Clan Wars format does not work and that there are not enough teams committed to making it work, so we'll be bringing the season to an end. I will be working with MLG to see if there's something else I can do that may be more reliable for the viewers and produce higher quality content. I'm not sure at this point if they'd be willing to commit the monthly prizemoney, but they've always been very reasonable so I'll see what I can come up with.
Whatever it is it won't be a teamleague. Clan Wars is hardly the first team event to suffer these kind of problems. Teamstory Cup, heck even IPTL also had huge numbers of forfeits or poorly prepared teams resulting in lackluster seasons. For all the requests I've had to make a "foreign proleague", something I would absolutely love to do, I think it's become obvious that in SC2s current state that's just not possible. Maybe it never was, maybe the team format is just untenable without the kind of huge oversight and organisation that KeSPA can provide. Whatever the case, I hope you've enjoyed the games we've had and thanks to the teams that did take it seriously and obviously put in the time and effort to show great games for the fans. I hope to be back in the not too distant future, perhaps with a more traditional event. The SHOUTcraft tournaments were great successes for the most part, so perhaps going back to those would be a better bet.
Well, it's a shame. Anyway, thank you for trying your best to make this possible. I did have fun.
Do you think a regular 1v1 tournament on the same maps would be more successful? Perhaps some feedback from the players who participated in Clan Wars would help. But given how the teams have been communicating so far, I don't know...
Or perhaps a 2v2 tournament? There have been a couple of pretty good ones not long ago so that might (?) work.
Damn. I am very disappointed in most of the teams for this. There were very few teams signing up consistently.
EDIT: And I can't say I blame you either. It does not seem like it would have been a huge commitment for any of the teams involved, and $500 is not a bad amount of money. What a waste of resources from both MLG and TB.
This is so frustrating to see. This was easily one of my favorite events. How disappointing to see so many teams/players unable to get their shit together to make this work.
Absolute shame this has to end. It was a really cool concept, too bad most of the teams "participating" had to ruin it. I hope you can figure something out TB.
Wherever you take Shoutcraft from here, TB, I'll be there to watch. Had a hell of a lot of fun with the Clan Wars, and so did the folks I showed it to. Really sad it's ending.
Thanks to the teams that showed up consistently and participated, it was appreciated.
Wish there was a better way to express my disappointment in the teams that didn't participate. All I can do it keep it in mind for the future, I guess. And maybe not buy that Acer chromebook. ;D
The sc2 scene is starving and TB brings in some much needed money... and the teams can't even be arsed to sign up and play? What on earth is that? It just boggles my mind. When you don't grasp for the straws (or in this case, quite the solid branch), you're going to go down.
On behalf on Team Ascension, I thank TotalBiscuit and MLG for hosting and supporting this awesome event and letting us participate.
I know we haven't put up great results so far, but as a semipro NA team, win or lose, these events truly provide the lifeblood for our survival, and the sustainability of the scene. It's probably not my place to say, but I'm honestly disappointed in those teams that didn't even bother signing up or looking at the calendar. If you didn't think you could participate, then just give up your spot and let a team who WANTS and NEEDS it, play.
It was an honor to play, and I hope we can give it our all again in the future!
damn, I liked this so much, loved the weird maps...
Shame on all the teams that gave their word but didn't show up. Specially the big ones. It's not ideal but they can at least go and play the map even if they never practiced on it, so WCS is not a valid excuse.
I'm sad as I never missed a single Clan War as I love it dearly. But at the same time I can't say I'm surprised by this either. It's a shame that all the hard work TB puts in isn't reciprocated by the teams.
The sc2 scene is starving and TB brings in some much needed money... and the teams can't even be arsed to sign up and play? What on earth is that? It just boggles my mind. When you don't grasp for the straws (or in this case, quite the solid branch), you're going to go down.
It reminds me of an old job that I had.
Basically, I'd tell people about it in general terms, and they'd decide that it was easy money and give it a go, and they would fail miserably.
They would fail because they didn't approach it like a job. They approached it like a hobby that they could just do this one main thing and then sit back and watch the money roll in. They didn't understand that it wasn't just posting one or two things, it was researching what people wanted to see and hear, developing relationships with individuals, keeping an eye on tech news to figure out if some new toy was going to revolutionize or destroy the entire industry.
They were myopic and sloppy, and always failed as a result.
If you don't have that business mentality constantly at the forefront of all of your decision-making, things just turn into a giant mess of crap and failure.
People play SC2 for league prestige and some cash. They care about rankings.
Thinking in terms of industry strategy, brand growth, personal exposure, developing a fanbase - these things don't appear to be a part of the internal calculus of (most of) the teams.
Ascension clearly gets it. Or AprilTerran does anyways.
I'm sure he's perfectly sincere, but making that post is still a giant-ass flag going "WHEE! FAN RAPPORT! COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT!" and for the sake of two minutes making a post, the entire Ascension brand now looks like a goddamn class act that's paying attention (i.e. at the very least, checking the thread of a pseudo-league they're signed up for) and shares the same passions as the viewbase.
I'm not entirely sure where I was going with this. Meh.
The sc2 scene is starving and TB brings in some much needed money... and the teams can't even be arsed to sign up and play? What on earth is that? It just boggles my mind. When you don't grasp for the straws (or in this case, quite the solid branch), you're going to go down.
It reminds me of an old job that I had.
Basically, I'd tell people about it in general terms, and they'd decide that it was easy money and give it a go, and they would fail miserably.
They would fail because they didn't approach it like a job. They approached it like a hobby that they could just do this one main thing and then sit back and watch the money roll in. They didn't understand that it wasn't just posting one or two things, it was researching what people wanted to see and hear, developing relationships with individuals, keeping an eye on tech news to figure out if some new toy was going to revolutionize or destroy the entire industry.
They were myopic and sloppy, and always failed as a result.
If you don't have that business mentality constantly at the forefront of all of your decision-making, things just turn into a giant mess of crap and failure.
People play SC2 for league prestige and some cash. They care about rankings.
Thinking in terms of industry strategy, brand growth, personal exposure, developing a fanbase - these things don't appear to be a part of the internal calculus of (most of) the teams.
Ascension clearly gets it. Or AprilTerran does anyways.
I'm sure he's perfectly sincere, but making that post is still a giant-ass flag going "WHEE! FAN RAPPORT! COMMUNITY ENGAGEMENT!" and for the sake of two minutes making a post, the entire Ascension brand now looks like a goddamn class act that's paying attention (i.e. at the very least, checking the thread of a pseudo-league they're signed up for) and shares the same passions as the viewbase.
I'm not entirely sure where I was going with this. Meh.
Haha I think I see where you were going! Take it how you will, but personally, having started literally as a bronze "clan" 5 years ago, participating in this SHOUTcraft has been our most prestigious achievement so far. Forget the exposure and promotion for a minute, I truly valued this event because of what it represented for the scene. SC2 isn't dying by any means, but it relies on these events to keep a base level of operation. I really hope something like this can happen again in the near future.
The sc2 scene is starving and TB brings in some much needed money... and the teams can't even be arsed to sign up and play? What on earth is that? It just boggles my mind. When you don't grasp for the straws (or in this case, quite the solid branch), you're going to go down.
sc2 is on the third place of prize money awarded, that is not starving.
I just don't feel like MLG.tv is a viable option, especially for smaller tournaments. I've started to use it more (both on desktop browser and its mobile app), and you just don't have the viewership or the Twitch chat style feel where you can tell tons of other people are watching it too. Also, it's just a pain. It's like having to use a different browser just to go to one website; sooner or later, you'll just stop going to that website.
My simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch.
On July 07 2015 07:28 erby wrote: I just don't feel like MLG.tv is a viable option, especially for smaller tournaments. I've started to use it more (both on desktop browser and its mobile app), and you just don't have the viewership or the Twitch chat style feel where you can tell tons of other people are watching it too. Also, it's just a pain. It's like having to use a different browser just to go to one website; sooner or later, you'll just stop going to that website.
My simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch.
MLGtv was sponsoring the event. I don't get how you can say they weren't a viable option when they were the reason this happened at all. This wasn't about viewership, that was doing fine. This was about teams not participating and poor scheduling. Did you even read his posts?
On July 07 2015 07:28 erby wrote: I just don't feel like MLG.tv is a viable option, especially for smaller tournaments. I've started to use it more (both on desktop browser and its mobile app), and you just don't have the viewership or the Twitch chat style feel where you can tell tons of other people are watching it too. Also, it's just a pain. It's like having to use a different browser just to go to one website; sooner or later, you'll just stop going to that website.
My simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch.
MLGtv was sponsoring the event. I don't get how you can say they weren't a viable option when they were the reason this happened at all. This wasn't about viewership, that was doing fine. This was about teams not participating and poor scheduling. Did you even read his posts?
I was not making that comment as a direct response to his post about the lack of participation but as a comment on MLG as the medium. What is the sassyness for?
On July 07 2015 07:28 erby wrote: I just don't feel like MLG.tv is a viable option, especially for smaller tournaments. I've started to use it more (both on desktop browser and its mobile app), and you just don't have the viewership or the Twitch chat style feel where you can tell tons of other people are watching it too. Also, it's just a pain. It's like having to use a different browser just to go to one website; sooner or later, you'll just stop going to that website.
My simple brain tells me that more viewers = more money, and it just doesn't seem like MLG is cutting it for smaller events. Big ones, for COD, Halo, etc. that's fine, but not recurring leagues. You even see it in CS:GO with CEVO being on MLG; huge number differences from Twitch.
The presence on MLG.tv had zero impact on the viability of the event. Regardless of the fact that even on a much smaller and less common platform we still had more viewers than comparable leagues like SC2Improve, the Youtube vod views more than made up for the extra exposure we'd have got on Twitch.
Also Twitch did not offer $60,000 a year in prize money for the event, MLG did.
Really sad to see this, but can't blame you for it. Depressing how so many teams don't give a damn about the biggest team event to come around in a while. Respect to the teams who stuck with it though, and TB and MLG for trying to reinvigorate the team league scene. And thanks for giving Grav-F3 a shot, however short-lived it must be.
I loved ClanWars but I don't blame you for pulling the plug TB. Such a shame to see a lot of teams not take this seriously, I mean even a PL team like SBENU put on a better showing than some of the foreign teams who didn't have to worry about tournaments and that says something.
I hope you can work something out to bring us another shoutcraft soon. The effort and passion you put into these events is fantastic and shows in the final product (on your end at least)
This just suck. TB always made really fun tournaments and events.
I mean ... Shoutcraft with full KR lineup was one of the best tournament. The clan wars with their funky maps was a hell of a fun night. Even "I suck at Starcraft 2" was funny as hell.
Until next time TB ! Hope you'll find something less wonky to organize since the numbers are still here.
I felt that a teamleague that is not a recurring league, with a beginning, middle, and a conclusion to the league in the form of a finals weekend or playoffs, doesn't really offer much.
These clanwars were one-time affairs for 500$ played on maps that you'd have to invest time in that differentiates from your usual practice, and from the convenience of ladder-practice. It's just not very rewarding to play. SC2Improve, because of it's seasonal setup, was a lot of fun to play in because you are playing to be the champion of a whole season and not to win one clanwar that is a completly isolated event. And on top of that it doesn't really tell you where you stand skill-wise because half of the maps are void in the competitive scene.
The shoutcraft events that TB has put on in 2011, 2012 and 2013 were so fucking amazing and everybody loved them. I hope they can come back.
And on top of that it doesn't really tell you where you stand skill-wise because half of the maps are void in the competitive scene.
Imagine Stephen Fry and Stephen Hawking.
One of them is genuinely intelligent, innovates with new ideas, is highly adaptable and would fare well in any intellectual environment.
The other has read a lot of things a lot of times, and is very good and repeating those things that he's read over and over again.
This is why Stephen Hawking will have a legacy not dissimilar to Maxwell or Newton and Stephen Fry will be completely forgotten within 30 years of his death.
Or to look at it another way, if you made Usain Bolt compete in the 200m backstroke, he'd suck and possibly drown. This shows that while he's a very good runner, he can still completely suck balls at anything that he doesn't practice six hours a day.
Playing abstract maps absolutely shows your relative skill level. It just doesn't show your memorization of standard sets of maps or give an indication of league play.
For some reason some people are perpetuating the idea that we never ran events at EU friendly times.
That simply isnt true. Half of our scheduled times were 2pm eastern, which is 8pm in Europe, designed for EU and NA teams. Our 8pm teamslots were designed from the aussies, Koreans and Americans. Problem is we had to cancel a lot of our 2pm timeslots because of lack of signups.
On July 08 2015 00:17 ClanWars wrote: For some reason some people are perpetuating the idea that we never ran events at EU friendly times.
That simply isnt true. Half of our scheduled times were 2pm eastern, which is 8pm in Europe, designed for EU and NA teams. Our 8pm teamslots were designed from the aussies, Koreans and Americans. Problem is we had to cancel a lot of our 2pm timeslots because of lack of signups.
As an European, the timing was really conveniant most of time. So i don't see why they would say this and you are also the quicker uploader to youtube i know of.
And on top of that it doesn't really tell you where you stand skill-wise because half of the maps are void in the competitive scene.
Imagine Stephen Fry and Stephen Hawking.
One of them is genuinely intelligent, innovates with new ideas, is highly adaptable and would fare well in any intellectual environment.
The other has read a lot of things a lot of times, and is very good and repeating those things that he's read over and over again.
This is why Stephen Hawking will have a legacy not dissimilar to Maxwell or Newton and Stephen Fry will be completely forgotten within 30 years of his death.
Or to look at it another way, if you made Usain Bolt compete in the 200m backstroke, he'd suck and possibly drown. This shows that while he's a very good runner, he can still completely suck balls at anything that he doesn't practice six hours a day.
Playing abstract maps absolutely shows your relative skill level. It just doesn't show your memorization of standard sets of maps or give an indication of league play.
but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see
the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return
but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see
the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return
but if progamers don't wanna do what fans want them to do then soon enough they will have nobody and nothing to play for...players and teams should remember that they are here for fans and thanks to the fans...without fans there would be no SC2 scene
so if fans wanna watch their favourite players play on a gimmicky maps once in a while players should sacrifice those 30 minutes of practice to at least check the map and have the decency to show up for, and this is very important to point out, PAID event.
but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see
the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return
I was going to flatly disagree, but honestly I don't know enough about the relative revenue streams that come in to pro players through competition, merch and streaming to say anything definitive.
I agree that, in terms of competition wins and sponsorships, focusing solely on league is a valid strategy - but it's a bubble strategy. They play for rank and they have nothing as soon as they stop playing - or even if a patch destroys their ability to win anything.
A brand strategy just makes more sense to me. It's more sustainable. It's more stable. It's diversified.
So I just don't get why, regardless of revenue splits, they wouldn't be more actively pursuing lulzy bullshit.
The entire "thing" of pro play right now just seems to be: Focus on league, because league is what matters, because everyone focuses on league.
And in specific regards to skill, as I said before: It doesn't show skill at all. It shows practice. And I don't really care about finding out who can click units the fastest.
but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see
the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return
I was going to flatly disagree, but honestly I don't know enough about the relative revenue streams that come in to pro players through competition, merch and streaming to say anything definitive.
I agree that, in terms of competition wins and sponsorships, focusing solely on league is a valid strategy - but it's a bubble strategy. They play for rank and they have nothing as soon as they stop playing - or even if a patch destroys their ability to win anything.
A brand strategy just makes more sense to me. It's more sustainable. It's more stable. It's diversified.
So I just don't get why, regardless of revenue splits, they wouldn't be more actively pursuing lulzy bullshit.
The entire "thing" of pro play right now just seems to be: Focus on league, because league is what matters, because everyone focuses on league.
And in specific regards to skill, as I said before: It doesn't show skill at all. It shows practice. And I don't really care about finding out who can click units the fastest.
Rain bubble-protoss confirmed, focused only on GSL :/
but that's his point. skill as a pro sc2 player IS skill at succeeding on relevant maps with relevant styles. fans push for what they think is new and exciting because it's fun in theory to watch, but it's to the viewer's benefit, not the players. pro sc2 is a job and impressing fans by succeeding on showy, gimmicky maps isn't advancing their careers in the way they'd probably like. this tired argument that "it's showing your skill at adaptability!" doesn't add up to a strong motivation, it's just fans trying to rationalize why players should want to do what the viewers want to see
the stephen hawking comparison is totally ludicrous on many levels, and i think you know that. no one is objectively right or wrong about the appeal of goofy maps, it's just a matter of return on an investment of time and effort, and the players aren't attracted to the return
but if progamers don't wanna do what fans want them to do then soon enough they will have nobody and nothing to play for...players and teams should remember that they are here for fans and thanks to the fans...without fans there would be no SC2 scene
so if fans wanna watch their favourite players play on a gimmicky maps once in a while players should sacrifice those 30 minutes of practice to at least check the map and have the decency to show up for, and this is very important to point out, PAID event.
i think plenty of fans still just want to see players play excellent standard games. the popularity of korean SC2 proves that in itself. you're presenting a false dilemma where either players "do what fans want" or train for proper standard games. they can do both by doing one
Thanks for not providing information as to this shitty turn of events. Was a lot of fun staying up till 2am for a match that never happened (again).
I know this might be difficult but it would be goddamn sensible if you could provide cancellation notices of matches in advance and in easier to reach places! The only way to know this recent match was a flop was to find it here, talk about fucking obscure. It makes me believe that who ever is running this event, couldn't give 2 squig shits about it.
Either TB should post on his twitter that the match has been cancelled (asap!) or update the teamliquid page, a forum post does not suffice! Come on now, this entire season has been disappointing but the shear lack of communication to the fans is what frustrates me the most :\
On July 09 2015 09:19 Discardious wrote: Thanks for not providing information as to this shitty turn of events. Was a lot of fun staying up till 2am for a match that never happened (again).
I know this might be difficult but it would be goddamn sensible if you could provide cancellation notices of matches in advance and in easier to reach places! The only way to know this recent match was a flop was to find it here, talk about fucking obscure. It makes me believe that who ever is running this event, couldn't give 2 squig shits about it.
Either TB should post on his twitter that the match has been cancelled (asap!) or update the teamliquid page, a forum post does not suffice! Come on now, this entire season has been disappointing but the shear lack of communication to the fans is what frustrates me the most :\
Yeah, why didn't he just look in his crystal ball to see the players would not show up
On July 09 2015 09:19 Discardious wrote: Thanks for not providing information as to this shitty turn of events. Was a lot of fun staying up till 2am for a match that never happened (again).
I know this might be difficult but it would be goddamn sensible if you could provide cancellation notices of matches in advance and in easier to reach places! The only way to know this recent match was a flop was to find it here, talk about fucking obscure. It makes me believe that who ever is running this event, couldn't give 2 squig shits about it.
Either TB should post on his twitter that the match has been cancelled (asap!) or update the teamliquid page, a forum post does not suffice! Come on now, this entire season has been disappointing but the shear lack of communication to the fans is what frustrates me the most :\
It's the official thread... Why wouldn't he post here ?
On July 09 2015 10:17 ClanWars wrote: edit: not worth it
I'm not. One way or another, I want to see two guys going at each other, and if I can't get it from Clan Wars, I wanna see TB turn detractor-baiting into a sport.
On July 09 2015 17:32 CashForSanity wrote: I'm not. One way or another, I want to see two guys going at each other, and if I can't get it from Clan Wars, I wanna see TB turn detractor-baiting into a sport.
A massive thanks to TB, MLG and all the teams that stood by their word and showed up. To those that didn't show up I hope you realise that you've let a lot of the community down. Posting excuses like well the maps didn't fit in with my practice style is lame. Very lame, if Kespa, pro league teams con do it then surely you can too. All teams that did sign up should have spoken to their players and explained what was required, if they couldn't commit then they shouldn't have signed up. Simple as that.
As a fan of the Shoutcrat series I hope that you bare this in mind when inviting players for your next project TB, keep up the good work!
Is Prime vs EG later on tonight likely to happen at this point? I know both of these teams have previously played in this series so I would hope so. They don't seem the sort to let you down last minute.
On July 14 2015 00:13 Ve5pa wrote: Is Prime vs EG later on tonight likely to happen at this point? I know both of these teams have previously played in this series so I would hope so. They don't seem the sort to let you down last minute.
It makes me a little sad to see the end of Clan Wars. While I used to watch a lot of SC2, it started to become repetitive for me and now I mostly watch big tournaments and Clan Wars...the unique maps were a feature that drew me specifically as they provided much more interesting play. I'm definitely going to miss having these to watch in the evening.
I don't blame TB for stopping the event of course. It's just sad that teams couldn't be bothered to behave professionally when it comes to the tourney. I understand if teams don't want to spend hours preparing for a 1-off map, but it's a shame that some players couldn't be arsed to find out how the map worked, or even show up.
As much as I enjoyed the unique maps I almost wish the maps where slightly more standard, the part I most loved about CW was watching the bo7 proleague format with teams like liquid and acer. Perhaps if the maps where more normal the teams and players would have been more inclined to play.
anyway I guess we just have to enjoy the last few matches than give CW a fond farwell
If the match is tied 3-3 just have the players play the match after the maintenance and cast it just before the next clan war. Probably the best way to make sure the game gets played and seen.
Is there any chance of getting a stream-timer overlay for the full length of the stream and putting the replay stream to an on-the-hour schedule?
C'z it's a pain in the arse trying to get onto the replay at the right time, and you can't really tell where it's at without looking at the scores. It'd be nice if I could just go "Ohey, I've only missed 5 minutes..." or "Played 67 minutes? Nuts to this. I'll be back in 53 minutes..."
On July 14 2015 19:44 CashForSanity wrote: TB, I have a small technical request.
Is there any chance of getting a stream-timer overlay for the full length of the stream and putting the replay stream to an on-the-hour schedule?
C'z it's a pain in the arse trying to get onto the replay at the right time, and you can't really tell where it's at without looking at the scores. It'd be nice if I could just go "Ohey, I've only missed 5 minutes..." or "Played 67 minutes? Nuts to this. I'll be back in 53 minutes..."
On July 14 2015 19:44 CashForSanity wrote: TB, I have a small technical request.
Is there any chance of getting a stream-timer overlay for the full length of the stream and putting the replay stream to an on-the-hour schedule?
C'z it's a pain in the arse trying to get onto the replay at the right time, and you can't really tell where it's at without looking at the scores. It'd be nice if I could just go "Ohey, I've only missed 5 minutes..." or "Played 67 minutes? Nuts to this. I'll be back in 53 minutes..."
On July 14 2015 19:44 CashForSanity wrote: TB, I have a small technical request.
Is there any chance of getting a stream-timer overlay for the full length of the stream and putting the replay stream to an on-the-hour schedule?
C'z it's a pain in the arse trying to get onto the replay at the right time, and you can't really tell where it's at without looking at the scores. It'd be nice if I could just go "Ohey, I've only missed 5 minutes..." or "Played 67 minutes? Nuts to this. I'll be back in 53 minutes..."
That's not possible to do.
Essentially that implementation would have to be done on the end of MLG. They save the replays and the rebroadcasts are carbon copies of what was broadcast previously. They'd have to implement something in the backend that would tkae the length of the video and then super-impose a timer over it in the videoplayer. Putting it in the video itself would require a full re-encode of the video which is extremely time consuming. There's also the obvious problem that having a timer like that would act as a spoiler. Additionally, rebroadcasts don't have scheduling functionality as of yet on MLG, once you hit the button, they loop until you tell them to stop.
For the timer, I kinda meant just use whatever composite setup you've got and do it on the live feed too. And not anything fancy, just a clock ticking up, so it's not giving away the total match time.
And, yeah, if you jumped in at 80 minutes, you obviously know it's not likely to be a 4-0 roll, but that's information you'd have without the timer too, just by seeing the players and/or the score being right next-to their names.
But more importantly:
The scheduling. What the fuck? Why would they even build their system like that? It's not even that hard to code into it. It's literally just putting in a CRON job to reset the replay, or maybe a scripted command line call to their video server to mess with the playlists. Or if they're half-assing their setup, just completely kill the per-channel daemon and restart the whole thing.
It's like maybe twenty minutes worth of (competent) coding. o_O
On July 14 2015 19:44 CashForSanity wrote: TB, I have a small technical request.
Is there any chance of getting a stream-timer overlay for the full length of the stream and putting the replay stream to an on-the-hour schedule?
C'z it's a pain in the arse trying to get onto the replay at the right time, and you can't really tell where it's at without looking at the scores. It'd be nice if I could just go "Ohey, I've only missed 5 minutes..." or "Played 67 minutes? Nuts to this. I'll be back in 53 minutes..."
On July 15 2015 01:12 Seeker wrote: Did Ash die again?
Firstly, Ash is the only Pokemon Master that I recognize. Him, Misty and Brock constitute the entirety of my acknowledgement of the Pokemon cartoons. He lives forever and all is well.
Secondly, no. That image is now a representation of my feelings towards MLG's streaming technology.
From looking at some of their job vacancies, it looks like they might be using individual Node.js microservers to stream for each channel.
So, yeah, they could just have scripts or CRON tasks set up to perpetually kill and reboot the stream at a user-defined interval.
They could even probably allow live re-encodes for overlays on the server side without much trouble, but I'm a bit iffy on that, because my knowledge of Node.js as a video server is sketchy at best.
On July 15 2015 01:12 Seeker wrote: Did Ash die again?
Firstly, Ash is the only Pokemon Master that I recognize. Him, Misty and Brock constitute the entirety of my acknowledgement of the Pokemon cartoons. He lives forever and all is well.
Huge shame to see this tournament leave. It has been the sole reason why I got interested in Starcraft 2 as an eSport (Only been interested in the lore up until now). In the past when trying to get into StarCraft 2 it has been far too intimidating. Clan Wars on the other hand, with its peculiar maps and 2v2 games felt much more accessible. Since this season started, I have even gone back to watch Season 1, as well as "I suck at StarCraft 2", Sandisk invitational, etc.
Somehow, Clan Who seems to have been told the wrong date. We're not sure how, since the calender shows the date and time in your local timezone and dateline. Got no players here, probably having to cancel this one too.
Oh my god, this is really sad in many ways. Seeing great players have a game on these map's in one of the most fun things a SC2 fan can see. Another cancelled/interrupted game is a real shame. THINK OF THE FANS!!!
On July 18 2015 08:55 ClanWars wrote: Somehow, Clan Who seems to have been told the wrong date. We're not sure how, since the calender shows the date and time in your local timezone and dateline. Got no players here, probably having to cancel this one too.
/facepalm time on this thread, in the calendar, and on liquipedia, all said the same thing
Oh God, it's like the disappointing behavior from teams never ends. You'd think, after all the criticism and lament that's been brought up due to teams failing to show up, that in these final days of the competition they'd triple check everything and make sure to show.
Just wanted to chime in and apologise for the screw up with Clan Who vs Col-IG.
When I advised the team of the new schedule, I gave them the correct details:
But when I gave them a reminder 1 week prior to the event, I made a mistake/typo. I accidentally said Sunday instead of Saturday. This caused confusion with the players.
This is 100% my fault, so please don't be upset with the players. Unfortunately I was at work all day so I didn't even realise we had missed the match until I arrived home in the afternoon.
We're going to play the games out and send the replays to TB.
Sincerest apologies to TB & qxc for working hard to make this happen, and apologies to those who were looking forward to seeing to the match.
On July 20 2015 09:51 CashForSanity wrote: I think I speak for everyone when I say that the most surprising thing about that is that a team was actually bothering to prepare for Clan Wars.
You've confused me more than the first time I watched The Little Mermaid.
Yes, I know she's only a cartoon, but goddamn...
Is this a joke? Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or actually believe that.
On July 20 2015 09:51 CashForSanity wrote: I think I speak for everyone when I say that the most surprising thing about that is that a team was actually bothering to prepare for Clan Wars.
You've confused me more than the first time I watched The Little Mermaid.
Yes, I know she's only a cartoon, but goddamn...
Is this a joke? Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or actually believe that.
Teams are notorious for not properly preparing for team leagues in general, not just clan wars
On July 20 2015 09:51 CashForSanity wrote: I think I speak for everyone when I say that the most surprising thing about that is that a team was actually bothering to prepare for Clan Wars.
You've confused me more than the first time I watched The Little Mermaid.
Yes, I know she's only a cartoon, but goddamn...
Is this a joke? Can't tell if you are being sarcastic or actually believe that.
Teams are notorious for not properly preparing for team leagues in general, not just clan wars
I know that, but often that is because of that nature of team leagues in general. Lots of games and organizing, no guarantee things will pay off.
Clan Wars is different though.
-A SINGLE bo7 can earn the team $500 -your team and players gets really good exposure from TB's big audience -TB even showcases team sponsors, which is another bonus to sell to a teams present and future sponsors
It's weird (from my perspective at least) that a lot of teams were'nt committed to this opportunity.
There's almost always at least one match per... match, where someone's clearly just like "lol how does maps?!?" / "I'll just rally everything right across the ma- Ohey green stuff..." / "Wow, a derelict cannon? That's some nicely detailed terrain..."
On July 29 2015 01:14 Kazzar831 wrote: So TB, where's the best place to check for an announcement of the new format replacing Clan Wars. Here? Twitter? etc...
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/TIta19q.png)
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Imaginary Gaming![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/iHlBgCZ.png)
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. axiom vs yoe will be sick though![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UbUJynw.jpg)
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