True enough, but I play more Protoss than I do Terran and Zerg right now and it's not a huge problem. With the new economy, though, I feel like it will be.

Grumbels

Netherlands7032 Posts

January 11 2015 20:00 GMT

#602

Builds where you forgo a gateway army to move the game instantly to situations where tempests are repeatedly harassing, akin to tempests vs swarm hosts in HotS, seem contrived and eventually boring. I don't see the deep strategic potential of these builds compared to standard macro play.

I don't think disintegration is a good idea. The science vessel worked in brood war because zerg had some high utility units that terran needed to be able to cull, an analogous situation for tempests would be having a few of them near your army to eliminate vipers, brood lords and ultralisks, but I think that protoss should be capable of facing such armies straight up without mutual destruction gimmicks. Certainly protoss needs to invest its gas into units like archons and can't really afford tempests without going all-in on them. In Starcraft 2 you are also more likely to mass anti-air and create a viking / corruptor fleet to deal with an investment into tempests and this forces void rays / carriers and establishes these back-and-forth air battles which I find to have dubious value.

Furthermore, it seems that disintegration has bad interactions with transfuse (creating an apm sink to invalidate the ability) and it lacks some of the cool aspects of irradiate.

TAMinator

Australia2706 Posts

January 11 2015 20:02 GMT

#603

im surprised this had so many viewers was the pull due to the LotV tag or something?

wUndertUnge

United States1126 Posts

January 11 2015 20:24 GMT

#604

Did carriers get a speed buff?

sparklyresidue

United States5524 Posts

January 11 2015 20:42 GMT

#605

On January 12 2015 05:02 TAMinator wrote:
im surprised this had so many viewers was the pull due to the LotV tag or something?

TB has a substantial following, too.

CREAM989

United States32 Posts

January 11 2015 20:53 GMT

#606

vods?

Krobolt

Canada42 Posts

January 11 2015 20:56 GMT

#607

On January 12 2015 05:53 CREAM989 wrote:
vods?

TB said he would post all of them, spoiler free, on his YouTube channel soon after the tournament ended.

ZAiNs

United Kingdom6525 Posts

January 11 2015 21:04 GMT

#608

Were they any games with a lot of Disruptor use?

Darkdwarf

Sweden960 Posts

January 11 2015 21:13 GMT

#609

Are the vods up yet?

dazed25

3566 Posts

January 11 2015 21:21 GMT

#610

On January 12 2015 06:04 ZAiNs wrote:
Were they any games with a lot of Disruptor use?

Quite a few with some disruptor + warp prism mineral line harass. I really wanted to see something like forcefields/statis + disruptor in army engagements though.

Supersamu

Germany296 Posts

January 11 2015 21:30 GMT

#611

On January 12 2015 06:13 Darkdwarf wrote:
Are the vods up yet?

It took me only one minute to see whether the vods are up or not. You could also have invested that time to look at his youtube channel (TotalBiscuit) instead of asking in this thread.

+ Show Spoiler +

No, they are not up yet.

[PkF] Wire

France24239 Posts

January 11 2015 21:41 GMT

#612

Disruptor + prism harass seems really interesting and was featured in some games (Crank - Heart I think saw a disruptor net 40+ kills). I wish the ranged pick up goes away to make drop less easy though.

gruff

Sweden2276 Posts

January 11 2015 22:13 GMT

#613

On January 12 2015 05:02 TAMinator wrote:
im surprised this had so many viewers was the pull due to the LotV tag or something?

Most of TB's tournaments have had over 20k viewers easily. I guess LotV maybe gave a bump of additional 5-10k viewers. He's had up to 40k viewers on his normal streams (i.e. sim city launch).

Squat

Sweden7978 Posts

January 12 2015 00:00 GMT

#614

Had some good fun watching this, more than I'vs had with Sc2 in quite a while. LotV looks to have awesome potential, though these games highlighted some issues as well. Protoss, as many people had predicted, just has to change somehow to work in this new environment. Also Tempests are awful and complete killjoys. Worst unit so far by a mile.

LimeNade

United States2125 Posts

January 12 2015 03:05 GMT

#615

TB thanks for the putting on this tournament! Hopefully once the beta launches we'll see a bunch more tournaments pop up since this was very fun to watch

olimoley

United States742 Posts

January 12 2015 05:39 GMT

#616

Thanks for watching everyone! Happy it generated a lot of discussion. Look forward to more Axiom tournaments in the future, I already have some ideas for the next one.

SoleSteeler

Canada5472 Posts

January 12 2015 05:52 GMT

#617

Sounds like the tourney was a success! Hate to ask but any ETA on vods? As in possibly later today or do i need to wait a few days?

ZAiNs

United Kingdom6525 Posts

January 12 2015 05:54 GMT

#618

On January 12 2015 14:52 SoleSteeler wrote:
Sounds like the tourney was a success! Hate to ask but any ETA on vods? As in possibly later today or do i need to wait a few days?

I think TB is usually fairly quick at uploading VODs, so it should take less than a day.

You can access the VODs now on Twitch if you subscribe to TB!

http://www.twitch.tv/totalbiscuit/b/609807425

Grumbels

Netherlands7032 Posts

January 12 2015 11:41 GMT

#619

On January 12 2015 09:00 Squat wrote:
Had some good fun watching this, more than I'vs had with Sc2 in quite a while. LotV looks to have awesome potential, though these games highlighted some issues as well. Protoss, as many people had predicted, just has to change somehow to work in this new environment. Also Tempests are awful and complete killjoys. Worst unit so far by a mile.

You can see in a lot of the protoss games (I think especially by Alicia) that players don't know how to use the new warpgate yet. They warp in units directly underneath an enemy army and then seem kinda surprised it doesn't work. This is unfortunately what happens whenever you change core mechanics, but hopefully this knowledge won't deter Blizzard from pushing this change through.

To be honest, I think that the purpose of the warpgate nerf (&sentry nerf vs zerg) has to be part of an attempt to make gateway units more viable, because otherwise it leads to games where protoss goes straight to tempests and even forgoes gateways entirely (like Crank did).