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On September 10 2014 09:58 Wasaru wrote:
Koreans, on almost a 100% basis, are mechanically superior. Major is the only foreign Terran who can consistently hit 200 EPM. I remember I looked at the replays from MLG a year ago-- foreigners hit 200 epm 2 times and Koreans hit it 43 times. Simply opening the EPM meter show you who the Korean is.. Or is that not allowed either?
It's not like people are gonna watch Zest vs Bunny, then Zest vs Flash, and not notice huge differences between the Terrans.
lol, obviously you wouldnt allow people to open the EPM meter, wtf? the entire thing in question is whether people can tell the difference when watching broadcasts of pro games
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United States23455 Posts
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 10 2014 09:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:57 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:56 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:53 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 Shellshock wrote:
[quote]
I dont think it has as much potential as the 10x one though. people will probably forget about it in a week eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own but also im curious about how the experiment would go It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" You can just play the odds by predicting the winner being Korean. That's why you don't do full games, but rather parts of games, like how the midgame evolves, the early game movements from 3min to 8 or so. Maybe even just one lategame engagement or something. I probably wouldnt be a participant in this experiment. I watch and play too much sc2. Do you think you can watch a random replay and guess the players? Korean or not. edit: Of course the players are noted progamers
I predicted Naniwa would proxy 2 gate Jaedong 10 minutes before he proxy 2 gated Jaedong. I knew soO would beat Parting 3-1 with Parting only getting his 1 map win off of a Yeonsu Soul Train. I called 5/6 maps rights in the Classic vs soO finals.
So probably?
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Poll: Recommend Losers Match Game 1?★- Do not see this game no matter what (1) 25% ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2) 50% ★★★- Good game (1) 25% ★★★★- Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 1? (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★- Good game
(Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
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United States97277 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again
Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately
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On September 10 2014 09:58 Wasaru wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:41 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:40 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
[quote]
I'm confused why are we pretnding that this is a GSL group cause we were told that we are unable to differentiate between code s and high level foreigner play unless we are kr gm this debate is becoming a meme. someone really needs to just run an experiment already I dont think it has as much potential as the 10x one though. people will probably forget about it in a week eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own but also im curious about how the experiment would go It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" Koreans, on almost a 100% basis, are mechanically superior. Major is the only foreign Terran who can consistently hit 200 EPM. I remember I looked at the replays from MLG a year ago-- foreigners hit 200 epm 2 times and Koreans hit it 43 times. Simply opening the EPM meter show you who the Korean is.. Or is that not allowed either? It's not like people are gonna watch Zest vs Bunny, then Zest vs Flash, and not notice huge differences between the Terrans.
Of course it's not gonna be allowed. It's most likely going to be an edited youtube video with no casting and parts of games only. It would feature greater variety and less chance for a weighted result.
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United States23455 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:01 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 10 2014 09:57 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:56 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:53 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:
[quote]
eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own
but also im curious about how the experiment would go It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" You can just play the odds by predicting the winner being Korean. That's why you don't do full games, but rather parts of games, like how the midgame evolves, the early game movements from 3min to 8 or so. Maybe even just one lategame engagement or something. I probably wouldnt be a participant in this experiment. I watch and play too much sc2. Do you think you can watch a random replay and guess the players? Korean or not. edit: Of course the players are noted progamers I predicted Naniwa would proxy 2 gate Jaedong 10 minutes before he proxy 2 gated Jaedong. I knew soO would beat Parting 3-1 with Parting only getting his 1 map win off of a Yeonsu Soul Train. I called 5/6 maps rights in the Classic vs soO finals. So probably?
Wow look who's full of himself and his predicting abilities
Zealously was the only one who correctly called SPL finals
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United States23455 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately
I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no?
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United States97277 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no?
maybe san is bad now too
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:01 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 10 2014 09:57 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:56 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:53 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" You can just play the odds by predicting the winner being Korean. That's why you don't do full games, but rather parts of games, like how the midgame evolves, the early game movements from 3min to 8 or so. Maybe even just one lategame engagement or something. I probably wouldnt be a participant in this experiment. I watch and play too much sc2. Do you think you can watch a random replay and guess the players? Korean or not. edit: Of course the players are noted progamers I predicted Naniwa would proxy 2 gate Jaedong 10 minutes before he proxy 2 gated Jaedong. I knew soO would beat Parting 3-1 with Parting only getting his 1 map win off of a Yeonsu Soul Train. I called 5/6 maps rights in the Classic vs soO finals. So probably? Wow look who's full of himself and his predicting abilities Zealously was the only one who correctly called SPL finals
I only noted those examples because the games went exactly as I thought they would in my mind.
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DT, DT, DT, lets goooooo.
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On September 10 2014 09:58 Circumstance wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:55 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:41 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:40 Shellshock wrote:
[quote]
cause we were told that we are unable to differentiate between code s and high level foreigner play unless we are kr gm this debate is becoming a meme. someone really needs to just run an experiment already I dont think it has as much potential as the 10x one though. people will probably forget about it in a week eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own but also im curious about how the experiment would go It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" To be honest, to conduct this experiment, how do you even start gathering people to do it on? People from Team Liquid will answer differently from the baddies I met at a barcraft. I think doing the experiment after blizzcon and featuring the last 3 months of games would be the best. Around the time the new patch came would be optimal. Do you actually want tournament games, though? You'd have to control the recording in a number of different ways, though, and you couldn't just, say, let out a replay. I think it'd be easier to do the sort of thing TB talked about a long time ago, SHOUTCraft Masked. Where everyone would play a tournament, streamed, with a prize, but they'd all be on barcodes and their names wouldn't be revealed until it was all over.
it might be easier in terms of controlling the experiment but if TB were here he would be already giving you an 8 paragraph lecture about how organizing tournaments is A Lot Of Work™
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On September 10 2014 10:01 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 10 2014 09:57 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:56 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:53 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:
[quote]
eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own
but also im curious about how the experiment would go It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" You can just play the odds by predicting the winner being Korean. That's why you don't do full games, but rather parts of games, like how the midgame evolves, the early game movements from 3min to 8 or so. Maybe even just one lategame engagement or something. I probably wouldnt be a participant in this experiment. I watch and play too much sc2. Do you think you can watch a random replay and guess the players? Korean or not. edit: Of course the players are noted progamers I predicted Naniwa would proxy 2 gate Jaedong 10 minutes before he proxy 2 gated Jaedong. I knew soO would beat Parting 3-1 with Parting only getting his 1 map win off of a Yeonsu Soul Train. I called 5/6 maps rights in the Classic vs soO finals. So probably?
I remember you predicting the soO PartinG series and it was kinda scary how right you were.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too
MC broke San.
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On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San.
*Bane'd San, he Bane'd San
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United States23455 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San.
He breaks a lot of people. Like anyone who Artosis likes
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On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San.
i feel like san is that guy who's perpetually cursed by people being certain that he's just barely on the cusp of breaking out and dominating the whole world
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On September 10 2014 10:04 ThomasjServo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San. *Bane'd San, he Bane'd San
Back = broken
career = rekt
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On September 10 2014 10:01 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 10 2014 09:57 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:56 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:53 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:
[quote]
eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own
but also im curious about how the experiment would go It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" You can just play the odds by predicting the winner being Korean. That's why you don't do full games, but rather parts of games, like how the midgame evolves, the early game movements from 3min to 8 or so. Maybe even just one lategame engagement or something. I probably wouldnt be a participant in this experiment. I watch and play too much sc2. Do you think you can watch a random replay and guess the players? Korean or not. edit: Of course the players are noted progamers I predicted Naniwa would proxy 2 gate Jaedong 10 minutes before he proxy 2 gated Jaedong. I knew soO would beat Parting 3-1 with Parting only getting his 1 map win off of a Yeonsu Soul Train. I called 5/6 maps rights in the Classic vs soO finals. So probably?
Yeah you probably could.
There is so much subtleties and nuances, but I think it would be easy to differentiate a Korean and non-Korean at the moment. The general skill difference is still large.
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EPT
