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On September 10 2014 09:49 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:44 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:41 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:40 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On September 10 2014 09:37 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:36 Dodgin wrote:On September 10 2014 09:35 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
This is looking like soO's season to win finally I wouldn't be so sure, soO always beats his team mates. He better hope he can either beat Maru in the winner's match or he gets a rematch with Rain instead of Zest I'm confused why are we pretnding that this is a GSL group cause we were told that we are unable to differentiate between code s and high level foreigner play unless we are kr gm this debate is becoming a meme. someone really needs to just run an experiment already I dont think it has as much potential as the 10x one though. people will probably forget about it in a week eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own but also im curious about how the experiment would go Yeah I suppose that's true. I guess CatZ does have a point though where there are still some sub par games in Code S where you probably wouldn't be able to differentiate but I also think there's a much higher peak in game quality. i tend to agree on the peaks, i think you see the difference in tiny micro details and little flourishes. a lot of the time at foreigner level when the casters are saying "beautiful play by huk" its often the other guy messing up too, but in korean games it seems like the "beautiful plays" are against someone who's actually defending well. on the other hand in a boring macro game with lots of standard moveouts and engagements it would probably be a tougher call
You say that, but during IEM a lot of people were complimenting KeSPA Korean Flash for his "beautiful play" of MC blinking on top of Marauders or rallying Colossi into the bioball or Snute blind all-inning into a fortified Flash and such.
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On September 10 2014 10:05 brickrd wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San. i feel like san is that guy who's perpetually cursed by people being certain that he's just barely on the cusp of breaking out and dominating the whole world
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ASUS_ROG_Winter_2014
remember this?!
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United States97277 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San.
you mean Stardust? MC lost the last 3 times he played San
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On September 10 2014 10:05 Fanatic-Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:49 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:41 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:40 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:39 KingofdaHipHop wrote:On September 10 2014 09:37 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:36 Dodgin wrote:
[quote]
I wouldn't be so sure, soO always beats his team mates. He better hope he can either beat Maru in the winner's match or he gets a rematch with Rain instead of Zest I'm confused why are we pretnding that this is a GSL group cause we were told that we are unable to differentiate between code s and high level foreigner play unless we are kr gm this debate is becoming a meme. someone really needs to just run an experiment already I dont think it has as much potential as the 10x one though. people will probably forget about it in a week eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own but also im curious about how the experiment would go Yeah I suppose that's true. I guess CatZ does have a point though where there are still some sub par games in Code S where you probably wouldn't be able to differentiate but I also think there's a much higher peak in game quality. i tend to agree on the peaks, i think you see the difference in tiny micro details and little flourishes. a lot of the time at foreigner level when the casters are saying "beautiful play by huk" its often the other guy messing up too, but in korean games it seems like the "beautiful plays" are against someone who's actually defending well. on the other hand in a boring macro game with lots of standard moveouts and engagements it would probably be a tougher call You say that, but during IEM a lot of people were complimenting KeSPA Korean Flash for his "beautiful play" of MC blinking on top of Marauders or rallying Colossi into the bioball or Snute blind all-inning into a fortified Flash and such.
Yeah but that's because he's Flash, people will commend him if he makes marines.
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On September 10 2014 09:51 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:50 ThomasjServo wrote:Jim's keyboard looks like candy buttons. ![[image loading]](http://monkeyblogmonkeydo.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/candy-buttons.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/EOOnw.jpg) TaeJa had one of these iirc. Super cool.
Seriously though, does anybody know where to get this keyboard or who makes it? :D
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:05 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:01 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 10 2014 09:57 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:56 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:53 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:
[quote]
It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" You can just play the odds by predicting the winner being Korean. That's why you don't do full games, but rather parts of games, like how the midgame evolves, the early game movements from 3min to 8 or so. Maybe even just one lategame engagement or something. I probably wouldnt be a participant in this experiment. I watch and play too much sc2. Do you think you can watch a random replay and guess the players? Korean or not. edit: Of course the players are noted progamers I predicted Naniwa would proxy 2 gate Jaedong 10 minutes before he proxy 2 gated Jaedong. I knew soO would beat Parting 3-1 with Parting only getting his 1 map win off of a Yeonsu Soul Train. I called 5/6 maps rights in the Classic vs soO finals. So probably? Yeah you probably could. There is so much subtleties and nuances, but I think it would be easy to differentiate a Korean and non-Korean at the moment. The general skill difference is still large.
its even more important to note that a majority of players have some weird tick or style. Like if you had seen 5 illusion games in your life, you'd know it's fucking illusion playing.
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On September 10 2014 10:06 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:05 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San. i feel like san is that guy who's perpetually cursed by people being certain that he's just barely on the cusp of breaking out and dominating the whole world http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/ASUS_ROG_Winter_2014remember this?!
Not really tbh.
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On September 10 2014 10:02 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 09:58 Wasaru wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:44 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:42 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 09:41 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:40 Shellshock wrote:
[quote]
cause we were told that we are unable to differentiate between code s and high level foreigner play unless we are kr gm this debate is becoming a meme. someone really needs to just run an experiment already I dont think it has as much potential as the 10x one though. people will probably forget about it in a week eh i think it has potential because the whole korean vs foreigner infrastructure wcs points blahblahblahblah thing already has legs of its own but also im curious about how the experiment would go It would have to be a blind experiment. If people knew what we were looking for they would really try to see the differences in play and if you look hard enough anyone can figure it out isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" Koreans, on almost a 100% basis, are mechanically superior. Major is the only foreign Terran who can consistently hit 200 EPM. I remember I looked at the replays from MLG a year ago-- foreigners hit 200 epm 2 times and Koreans hit it 43 times. Simply opening the EPM meter show you who the Korean is.. Or is that not allowed either? It's not like people are gonna watch Zest vs Bunny, then Zest vs Flash, and not notice huge differences between the Terrans. Of course it's not gonna be allowed. It's most likely going to be an edited youtube video with no casting and parts of games only. It would feature greater variety and less chance for a weighted result.
For any decent player, or any player that follows the scene and the games closely, I think it will be very easy to tell with Terran or Zerg. Korean T and Z play much differently-- far more harrass, float less money, don't just sit in the middle of the map while Zerg expands and spreads creep (like Bunny), and the korean Zergs micro their lings much better too.
However, I still think if you have a playlist of 5 winning games, with some Mana and some Rain, the majority of people will know which one is the Korean simply because the play is much cleaner.
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United States23455 Posts
Ha Jim only has one PvP build
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On September 10 2014 10:05 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:04 ThomasjServo wrote:On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San. *Bane'd San, he Bane'd San Back = broken career = rekt
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cqZrTSE.png)
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:06 Shellshock wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:04 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 10:03 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Darkhorse wrote:On September 10 2014 10:02 Shellshock wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 Darkhorse wrote:
Some days Jim beats Taeja/Life/San. Others he gets stomped by Huk. Please no one ever try to tell me that Jim would be the best of the best without Chinese lag again Didn't he lose to like Has and Top in WEC? Maybe he's doing poorly in PvP lately I believe he did. But the fact that he beat San should debunk that no? maybe san is bad now too MC broke San. you mean Stardust? MC lost the last 3 times he played San
Right Stardust. All those Korean Protosses in WCS EU becoming one entity in my mind.
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Jim was just outclassed it looks like.
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United States23455 Posts
On September 10 2014 10:08 KingofdaHipHop wrote:
Jim was just outclassed it looks like.
Yeah hwat a shame. I am glad that we didn't do the top 10 foreigners list or Jim would have embarrassed me. Or Huk would have made me look good idk
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On September 10 2014 10:06 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On September 10 2014 10:05 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 10 2014 10:01 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:58 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 10 2014 09:57 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:56 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:53 stuchiu wrote:On September 10 2014 09:51 brickrd wrote:On September 10 2014 09:49 Wintex wrote:On September 10 2014 09:47 brickrd wrote:
[quote]
isnt that the whole debate though? or is there supposed to be some difference between "looking hard" and watching a game "normally"? as long as you handpicked foreigner games that use builds and styles that are common in the korean meta i think it would be fine I would be against making foreigners play a korean style or cherrypicking games where they use korean shit. You need a healthy mix of games etc. as long as all the games fall under a generally accepted range of pro foreigner level of play im not sure how handpicking the data would harm the experiment. the point of handpicking would be to avoid "cheating" by knowing the korean meta and just playing the odds that it's a "foreign style" You can just play the odds by predicting the winner being Korean. That's why you don't do full games, but rather parts of games, like how the midgame evolves, the early game movements from 3min to 8 or so. Maybe even just one lategame engagement or something. I probably wouldnt be a participant in this experiment. I watch and play too much sc2. Do you think you can watch a random replay and guess the players? Korean or not. edit: Of course the players are noted progamers I predicted Naniwa would proxy 2 gate Jaedong 10 minutes before he proxy 2 gated Jaedong. I knew soO would beat Parting 3-1 with Parting only getting his 1 map win off of a Yeonsu Soul Train. I called 5/6 maps rights in the Classic vs soO finals. So probably? Yeah you probably could. There is so much subtleties and nuances, but I think it would be easy to differentiate a Korean and non-Korean at the moment. The general skill difference is still large. its even more important to note that a majority of players have some weird tick or style. Like if you had seen 5 illusion games in your life, you'd know it's fucking illusion playing.
well i fully admit im not among the most hardcore fans here (i consider myself pretty midrange tbh) but i dont think i could recognize any player based on ticks that way except maybe LifeLings
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Poll: Recommend Losers Match Game 2?★- Do not see this game no matter what (1) 25% ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (2) 50% ★★★- Good game (1) 25% ★★★★- Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 2? (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★- Good game
(Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Losers Match Game 3?★- Do not see this game no matter what (2) 50% ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0) 0% ★★★- Good game (2) 50% ★★★★- Highly recommended game (0) 0% ★★★★★- One of the best games this season (0) 0% 4 total votes Your vote: Recommend Losers Match Game 3? (Vote): ★- Do not see this game no matter what
(Vote): ★★- Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do
(Vote): ★★★- Good game
(Vote): ★★★★- Highly recommended game
(Vote): ★★★★★- One of the best games this season
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United States23455 Posts
Where is that guy that keeps telling me Jim is the best foreigner in a live setting?
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EPT
