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Please stop making stupid polls just for the sake of making polls. |
On September 01 2014 10:36 Tanzklaue wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2014 08:14 p14c wrote:On September 01 2014 07:59 Jett.Jack.Alvir wrote:On September 01 2014 07:57 Canucklehead wrote:On September 01 2014 07:25 Caihead wrote:On September 01 2014 06:52 nimdil wrote:On September 01 2014 03:34 Doublemint wrote:On September 01 2014 03:33 nimdil wrote:
KT finals - disappointing. How is having the best players in the finals disappointing  Well, they're not exactly very exciting players to have in the final. Also that's team kill from Korea - always weird games can expected from it. Snute was 2-0 up against Flash which is extremely impressive and having him in the final would be a lot more exciting - if I had to choose I would hope for Snute - Life final. I actually agree, any other combination of Zest / Yoda / Life vs Flash / Snute / Taeja would have been more hype, had Snute beaten Flash and team killed Taeja (both very possible) it would have been the most epic hype finals. That sounds boring to me! Flash being in the finals was the most hype it could get. His story is way better than having snute in the finals. Flash rarely goes to foreign tournaments. Snute is at every foreign tournament. The hype comparison just can't be matched. Flash vs anyone would have made it hype! But I think Flash vs Snute would have been more epic, only cuz Zest doesn't have much of a story behind him. The only story was the KT team kill, but that gets boring fast. KT crushing overrated players is never boring. I especially liked how the smirk on Taeja's face disappeared after the second game LOL it's funny that a flash fan talks about others being overrated. let's be real. flash won 1 premier tournament that had a prizemoney of 10k. 1. his streak of dominance is 2 months now. 2. it's the same overhyping as with classic after he won the GSL. everyone called him the "best palyer ever", the "unbeatable protoss holy shit better than rain and zest". now nobody talks about classic anymore, because he didn't do anything after winning that title. if anything, classic is much closer to becoming the next seed than he is to becoming the next zest. what i want to say is: if flash still is competitively releavant in 2 months, then he will take his place in the hall of champions, together with all the other all time greats. if he isn't, then he will be jsut another one hit wonder that LR regulars will pull up whenever they talk about a player who used to be good. i don't give a flying fuck about him being god in sc:bw. sc2 is another domain, and in this domain we only know the legends of the kind of wings, the creator of the universe and the summer of taeja.
well that is because he had the best mechaincs in Brood War, which was a way harder and more competitive game then SC2. That is where he got his name from (God) this and his starsense, his macro etc...
Well and of course you are comparing 2 different WORLDS.
The one player was the best Brood War Player of ALL TIMES, and since the switch to SC2 he may not have won many tournaments, but secured himself titles like MVP and most kills several times now in ProLeague - which is the most competitive league there is. Not GSL.
His underperforming in individual leagues sucks for the fans, but if you look at all the games he lost, he still managed to play good. He never had BAD games over a period for several months like the players you mentioned - he always was solid at least.
Wouldn't call him the best (Terran) just for this one win (although at THIS moment he is (the best player), dismantling Taeja, Maru and many more other "best" Players ATM), but he was close to the top for a long time now.
And now that the game is closer to being blanced, until protoss find out how to counter the new mine again, he also made it to Code S again - proving that him not making it through before really had a little bit to do with balance.
Also ofc, to be honest, one reason was his predictable play to which others prepared perfectly sometimes just to snipe his builds while he didn't do that in the group stages of Code A/S. Mechanically he was still better then the oponents who sniped him, ultimately (in addition with some small imbalance at that time) leading to "Code B Material Toss" being in Code S whereas some "better" terrans had to sit outside and watch.
Also: in SC2 it is not possible anymore to dominate over a long period of time. This is "by design", as the randomness factor is too high (IMO) but a "feature" that is made on purpose (if you listen to the blizzard interviews during the SC2 design phase, there is even a documentary about it). Especially the cheeses and allins give lesser players always the chance to win: think about unscoutet baneling busts, nydus, muta switches or double proxy rax (I dunno another good terran cheese atm...mass reaper maybe?), or DT rush, proxy mass oracle, immortal allin, 4/8 gateway allin, blink allin, cannon rush... all these cheeses and allins are sometimes easy to pull off and hard to hold off, leading to the things stated above.
And in case of classic and other players:
I followed classic and players like genius from the very start. Surprising me with good results, games and upets, there were during all times flaws in their gameplay, even after months and years, leading me to the conclusion "well, he has some nice tricks, but if he doesn't get that sorted out, he might win something 1-2 times until players figure him out and he gets completely crushed. This is why you need to reset your playstyle after a big tourney win, cause everyone will analyze it (especially with replay pack out lilke here  , FLASH WATCH OUT). Something Flash did over and over again already, cause he was a prime example of a good terran macro player and was analyzed over and over again (something you can't do with Maru's unpredictable& aggressive play/openers - but then Maru is not that good of a macro player as flash is). So Flash stayed on top, while Classic and others went into a slump (hope that i spelled that right)
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but secured himself titles like MVP and most kills several times now in ProLeague - which is the most competitive league there is. Not GSL.
lol
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On September 01 2014 19:58 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On September 01 2014 01:34 PassionFruit wrote:
That translator just putting his own shit into the translation to make it more hyped. Da fuq is wrong with him?
Edit: I speak Korean. Amazing event in almost all aspects but I really want to leave some feedback for IEM on the translating. It was really irritating to see progamers being misrepresented in one of their few avenues to communicate with the fans. I want to hear what Flash/Zest etc think, not what @SC2Mal thinks will entertain us. Zest vs Yoda He claimed Zest said that the series was a 20 in terms of ease on a scale of 1-10 (a huge diss on Yoda). Except the scale was only established after Zest finished speaking. ZestLife vs Snute He translated "I didn't really care who I face but was happy it was versus a Zerg" into "I didn't really care who I face but was happy it was versus a Zerg PLUS a foreigner" Flash vs Taeja "There's no I in team," is not a Korean saying. "I feel I have an advantage in the lategame vs Taeja" was translated as "I think my macro was a lot godlier than the Taejas." This is only from the interviews I've seen and confirmed with a korean speaker. Considering his strike rate I wouldn't be surprised if all his interviews are littered with invented smack talk and storytelling.
Agreed. A lot of his translations did not sound like things that Flash/Zest would say to begin with. He definitely made the players sound more arrogant than they really are. I am sure he did it with good intention, but still.
When I was watching the stream live. I cringed when I heard him translate Flash's interview into, "...my macro is godlier than..." Flash would never say something like that, EVER.
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On September 01 2014 23:35 Loccstana wrote:
Flash needs to stream on Twitch. He can easily top 10k viewers
Streaming is for beggars, not gods
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Happy day for the fan. Next stop GSL!
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On September 02 2014 00:59 sibs wrote:Show nested quote +but secured himself titles like MVP and most kills several times now in ProLeague - which is the most competitive league there is. Not GSL. lol Great and deep thought of you...
GSL is the past - when PL wasn't SC2 yet.
Proleague is in every way bigger and better. The players pic their best builds and only those who are currently at a good state are being picked.
In both leagues were some really disappointing games of course, but while in PL the one player chose the wrong build, whereas in GSL it clearly showed, that one player was just inferior to the other and not on top of things.
There is a reason why the top GSL Players are almost all KESPA and PL players - but again, in PL they have to face each other several times over a long period of time, and not just have a lucky run. It is easier to have some lucky punches then to be dominant over months and that is what flash was. Even this season he was always on top or close to the top of most kills - although the clear imbalance in TvP and although there were weeks he and TY were the ONLY Terrans selected(which proves, that even the trainers thought Terran is weak atm, not just "my noob feelings towards the game"..
It is also one of the reasons he didn't make it through to Code S while inferior players did
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So I left to go camping over the weekend, shutting the stream down when flash, at 1-1 vs MC in the first series had void rays destroying his base. Came home today and loaded up to day 2, following flash as he went through scarlet, mc (again), taeja and zest. Wow... just wow. The closest series was definetly vs. Snute which speaks volumes of his skill.
Extra kudus to qxc who I think had the most drastic fashion turnaround imaginable. From oversized, puffy unironed shirt to nice fitted black suit. Well done. And of course your analysis/commentating was great.
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On September 02 2014 05:51 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 00:59 sibs wrote:but secured himself titles like MVP and most kills several times now in ProLeague - which is the most competitive league there is. Not GSL. lol Great and deep thought of you... GSL is the past - when PL wasn't SC2 yet. Proleague is in every way bigger and better. The players pic their best builds and only those who are currently at a good state are being picked. In both leagues were some really disappointing games of course, but while in PL the one player chose the wrong build, whereas in GSL it clearly showed, that one player was just inferior to the other and not on top of things. There is a reason why the top GSL Players are almost all KESPA and PL players - but again, in PL they have to face each other several times over a long period of time, and not just have a lucky run. It is easier to have some lucky punches then to be dominant over months and that is what flash was. Even this season he was always on top or close to the top of most kills - although the clear imbalance in TvP and although there were weeks he and TY were the ONLY Terrans selected(which proves, that even the trainers thought Terran is weak atm, not just "my noob feelings towards the game".. It is also one of the reasons he didn't make it through to Code S while inferior players did
Yeah this. About your point about flash not making through code S, In KR region the only top tier terrans were Maru, Flash and maybe Cure when TvP was in huge favor to P. In addition poor flash was always in the group of death for the past few GSLs (except for the previous one where he just dropped out of code S) because everyone picked him in the group of death.
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in slight defense of the translator, i feel like pointing out that this is the same guy who saved the day last year at the WCS Season 3 finals when the original translator failed. and there was word at the time that korean reps were in contact right away telling them to drop the first guy (word of mouth made it sound like Mr. Chae or Kespa called lol) so they're obviously watching, if SPOTV was airing this on TV I'm sure someone's aware.
It also really seemed like he got along with all the players there, Flash was playing his games on Jame's/Mal's account, and the job of the one translator for however many korean players were there for the event involves more than just handling interviews, he's clearly capable of doing his job well and managing communicating between these two 'groups' as it were. whether anything will come of the interview embellishments i can't say
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finally Flash has broken the duck in an SC2 individual league! so happy to see this... his games all tournament were a real joy to watch. that Bo5 with Snute was memorable. quite a run he had to go on to accomplish this! this win is definitely sweet, it was a bit of a shame to see Flash get so derided and mocked by a large vocal portion of the SC2 community every time he stumbled in an individual league in the past (even when finishing a respectable Ro16 in Code S), "please retire", "shit player uninstall", etc. well, it's nice to see he's starting to develop a consistent impressive run of results in recent times and hopefully this win fuels the fire and he's able to keep up this level. something like a Top 4 GSL run would be amazing, one can hope!
wonderful tournament all in all. props to Zest as well, he went on quite a tear after losing his first series against Taeja, what a complete player, and this quieted a couple of doubts I was starting to have after some slightly shaky results.
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It does kind of make you feel sad about SC2 that a player of Flash's RTS skill only wins one random tournament. The game is so volatile, that you have all these different random winners.
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Canada13378 Posts
On September 02 2014 08:20 Doodsmack wrote:
It does kind of make you feel sad about SC2 that a player of Flash's RTS skill only wins one random tournament. The game is so volatile, that you have all these different random winners.
He won a stacked tournament. Most stacked weekend tournament in a long time. He has beaten other players we call "the best" a lot lately. We are all seeing him come into form. If he remains in this form then its going to be ridiculous how much we will see from him.
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On September 02 2014 09:45 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 08:20 Doodsmack wrote:
It does kind of make you feel sad about SC2 that a player of Flash's RTS skill only wins one random tournament. The game is so volatile, that you have all these different random winners. He won a stacked tournament. Most stacked weekend tournament in a long time. He has beaten other players we call "the best" a lot lately. We are all seeing him come into form. If he remains in this form then its going to be ridiculous how much we will see from him.
If only JD would be at his best right now too :/
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On September 02 2014 05:51 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 00:59 sibs wrote:but secured himself titles like MVP and most kills several times now in ProLeague - which is the most competitive league there is. Not GSL. lol Great and deep thought of you... GSL is the past - when PL wasn't SC2 yet. Proleague is in every way bigger and better. The players pic their best builds and only those who are currently at a good state are being picked. In both leagues were some really disappointing games of course, but while in PL the one player chose the wrong build, whereas in GSL it clearly showed, that one player was just inferior to the other and not on top of things. There is a reason why the top GSL Players are almost all KESPA and PL players - but again, in PL they have to face each other several times over a long period of time, and not just have a lucky run. It is easier to have some lucky punches then to be dominant over months and that is what flash was. Even this season he was always on top or close to the top of most kills - although the clear imbalance in TvP and although there were weeks he and TY were the ONLY Terrans selected(which proves, that even the trainers thought Terran is weak atm, not just "my noob feelings towards the game".. It is also one of the reasons he didn't make it through to Code S while inferior players did
Proleague is a very different environment, Bo1's where all the preparation goes into a single map caters to a very different style compared to the drawn out Bo3+ formats, especially ones where you might not even know who you are facing (like GSL group stages). I don't think it's fair to equate or compare the two in general. If anything Flash back in the old days was much better in the drawn out Bo3+ formats instead of the Bo1 formats (almost never dropping a Bo5, but still vulnerable to Bo1 group stages).
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On September 02 2014 09:45 ZeromuS wrote:
He won a stacked tournament. Most stacked weekend tournament in a long time. He has beaten other players we call "the best" a lot lately. We are all seeing him come into form. If he remains in this form then its going to be ridiculous how much we will see from him.
We'll get to see in the wee hours of Friday morning...but then again he hasn't dropped a TvZ for a long time and he's played some very good zergs lately. Should be a 4-0 into Ro8.
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While Kespa players definitely were better this week-end, I think it would be unfair to say they dominated everyone else. Snute beat herO twice, SoS and brought Flash to a fifth game, Taeja and MC took series off both finalist and Polt went close to kill off Zest from the tournament. In fact, after the second day both finalist were risking elimination, so it really could have gone either way. Great tournament overall, hope to see more good things from Life, Snute and Flash.
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In a normal macro game and against the most common cheeses, Flash has the highest understanding of PvT.
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On September 02 2014 05:51 Rollora wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2014 00:59 sibs wrote:but secured himself titles like MVP and most kills several times now in ProLeague - which is the most competitive league there is. Not GSL. lol Great and deep thought of you... GSL is the past - when PL wasn't SC2 yet. Proleague is in every way bigger and better. The players pic their best builds and only those who are currently at a good state are being picked. In both leagues were some really disappointing games of course, but while in PL the one player chose the wrong build, whereas in GSL it clearly showed, that one player was just inferior to the other and not on top of things. There is a reason why the top GSL Players are almost all KESPA and PL players - but again, in PL they have to face each other several times over a long period of time, and not just have a lucky run. It is easier to have some lucky punches then to be dominant over months and that is what flash was. Even this season he was always on top or close to the top of most kills - although the clear imbalance in TvP and although there were weeks he and TY were the ONLY Terrans selected(which proves, that even the trainers thought Terran is weak atm, not just "my noob feelings towards the game".. It is also one of the reasons he didn't make it through to Code S while inferior players did
Okay, so what? I'd would argue that being able to go into a weekend tournament and win without prior in depth knowledge of your opponent could be considered "more" skillful as you have to react on the fly more often.
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I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
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On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote:
I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
Blizzard didn't design it that way. No one has reached the level where they have perfect mechanics, decision making and understanding of Starcraft II yet, so upsets happen when a progamer is unprepared for certain strategies, compositions or they simply make mistakes in positioning, micro or scouting.
Just because YOU don't see Flash's style shining through doesn't mean there isn't a personality in his play. His style is just extremely smart, defense oriented, standard play.
Rain doesn't play like PartinG, sOs or herO; Life does not resemble Soulkey, Snute, or Symbol; and FlaSh doesn't look like Maru, Bbyong, or Innovation.
As far as consistency, have you heard of a Zerg named soO?
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EPT
