On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
people getting stuck in the past is why the evolution moves so slow. calling every champion from sc2, from the time of its release 'till the time a BW bonjwa steps up a nobody, is WOW ...
it's still BW > SC2 for me but geeez men, even in BW, it took a solid +3?years for a bonjwa to emerge. SC2 is a totally different game, maybe it doesn't cater to bonjwas. stop being whiny dinosaurs and see what's in front of you for what it is: gamers are giving their hearts out for the game, for the fans, for you. + Show Spoiler +
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
I dunno, Donglings (BW) still > Lifelings, bisu probe micro > any worker micro i've ever seen in sc2 barring that one instance when Polt or bomber (?) spammed build supply depot on a ramp while a zerg was attacking in like 2011 or 2012, fantasy vultures >>> bogus hellbats / hellion, I can't think of something comparable in sc2 for alot of things players were trade marked for in BW.
On September 02 2014 17:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
I dunno, Donglings (BW) still > Lifelings, bisu probe micro > any worker micro i've ever seen in sc2 barring that one instance when Polt or bomber (?) spammed build supply depot on a ramp while a zerg was attacking in like 2011 or 2012, fantasy vultures >>> bogus hellbats / hellion, I can't think of something comparable in sc2 for alot of things players were trade marked for in BW.
What about all the amazing storms and incredible fungals??
tbh the only one I can think of is MKP's marine stutter step.
On September 02 2014 17:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
I dunno, Donglings (BW) still > Lifelings, bisu probe micro > any worker micro i've ever seen in sc2 barring that one instance when Polt or bomber (?) spammed build supply depot on a ramp while a zerg was attacking in like 2011 or 2012, fantasy vultures >>> bogus hellbats / hellion, I can't think of something comparable in sc2 for alot of things players were trade marked for in BW.
When I started watching BW, JD had already ascended to god-tier so I don't know his gameplay history very well, but was he really as fond of zerglings (in situations where no one else would ever use them to any effect) as Life is? You can argue efficiency or skill all you want, but fact remains that Life's ling-heavy style is incredibly unique and very easy to discern. Does JD being good with lings in BW change that?
On September 02 2014 17:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
I dunno, Donglings (BW) still > Lifelings, bisu probe micro > any worker micro i've ever seen in sc2 barring that one instance when Polt or bomber (?) spammed build supply depot on a ramp while a zerg was attacking in like 2011 or 2012, fantasy vultures >>> bogus hellbats / hellion, I can't think of something comparable in sc2 for alot of things players were trade marked for in BW.
What about all the amazing storms and incredible fungals??
tbh the only one I can think of is MKP's marine stutter step.
what storms and fungals?
for marine micro, I can't remember the name of that one player that made boxer's micro look like a child mashing his head on the keyboard.
On September 02 2014 17:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
I dunno, Donglings (BW) still > Lifelings, bisu probe micro > any worker micro i've ever seen in sc2 barring that one instance when Polt or bomber (?) spammed build supply depot on a ramp while a zerg was attacking in like 2011 or 2012, fantasy vultures >>> bogus hellbats / hellion, I can't think of something comparable in sc2 for alot of things players were trade marked for in BW.
Please don't make me sad again just when I was happy that Flash won a championship.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
I don't think that is true. Let's compare OSL/MSL with GSL/OSL (yeah there weren't many^^). (foreign tournaments are just not consistent enough with the participants i think) If there is interest i would actually do the work
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
I don't think that is true. Let's compare OSL/MSL with GSL/OSL (yeah there weren't many^^). (foreign tournaments are just not consistent enough with the participants i think) If there is interest i would actually do the work
we saw it at other thread about the first 3 or 4 years of BW. BW had more turnover than sc2.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
I don't think that is true. Let's compare OSL/MSL with GSL/OSL (yeah there weren't many^^). (foreign tournaments are just not consistent enough with the participants i think) If there is interest i would actually do the work
we saw it at other thread about the first 3 or 4 years of BW. BW had more turnover than sc2.
That's a disingenuous comparison, though. Professional gaming was not an industry with established practices for the first several years of BW. The training realities and support systems were very, very different.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
Blizzard didn't design it that way. No one has reached the level where they have perfect mechanics, decision making and understanding of Starcraft II yet, so upsets happen when a progamer is unprepared for certain strategies, compositions or they simply make mistakes in positioning, micro or scouting.
Just because YOU don't see Flash's style shining through doesn't mean there isn't a personality in his play. His style is just extremely smart, defense oriented, standard play.
Rain doesn't play like PartinG, sOs or herO; Life does not resemble Soulkey, Snute, or Symbol; and FlaSh doesn't look like Maru, Bbyong, or Innovation.
As far as consistency, have you heard of a Zerg named soO?
I forgot how the documentary was named, but they repeatedly said it was designed that way on purpose, for instance that even a lesser foreigner can win tournaments from time to time.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
I don't think that is true. Let's compare OSL/MSL with GSL/OSL (yeah there weren't many^^). (foreign tournaments are just not consistent enough with the participants i think) If there is interest i would actually do the work
we saw it at other thread about the first 3 or 4 years of BW. BW had more turnover than sc2.
That's a disingenuous comparison, though. Professional gaming was not an industry with established practices for the first several years of BW. The training realities and support systems were very, very different.
I know nothing about BW until 2010 but your reason isnt clear to me. Why is this disingenuos to compare the first 3 years of BW with the first 3 years of Sc2? Training realities is rather no reason because everyone used the same training realities ~10 years ago in BW and nowadays everyone uses the same "modern" training realities.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
I don't think that is true. Let's compare OSL/MSL with GSL/OSL (yeah there weren't many^^). (foreign tournaments are just not consistent enough with the participants i think) If there is interest i would actually do the work
we saw it at other thread about the first 3 or 4 years of BW. BW had more turnover than sc2.
That's a disingenuous comparison, though. Professional gaming was not an industry with established practices for the first several years of BW. The training realities and support systems were very, very different.
I know nothing about BW until 2010 but your reason isnt clear to me. Why is this disingenuos to compare the first 3 years of BW with the first 3 years of Sc2? Training realities is rather no reason because everyone used the same training realities ~10 years ago in BW and nowadays everyone uses the same "modern" training realities.
He's referring to the fact that because it was not "professional" back then, even if you were a champion and extremely good at the game with amazing potential, alot of players just gave up on it because nobody except extremely passionate people like boxer thought it would ever be a real career or occupation. The high turn over rate often reflects players giving up on the game and going to work elsewhere instead of any game issue.
On September 02 2014 17:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
I dunno, Donglings (BW) still > Lifelings, bisu probe micro > any worker micro i've ever seen in sc2 barring that one instance when Polt or bomber (?) spammed build supply depot on a ramp while a zerg was attacking in like 2011 or 2012, fantasy vultures >>> bogus hellbats / hellion, I can't think of something comparable in sc2 for alot of things players were trade marked for in BW.
When I started watching BW, JD had already ascended to god-tier so I don't know his gameplay history very well, but was he really as fond of zerglings (in situations where no one else would ever use them to any effect) as Life is? You can argue efficiency or skill all you want, but fact remains that Life's ling-heavy style is incredibly unique and very easy to discern. Does JD being good with lings in BW change that?
Well considering JD made deep championship runs off the back that his ZvZ was probably one of the best player match-ups in BW history, and that in BW ZvZ you ONLY made lings and mutas in the first 10-12 minutes, yeah he was as fond of zerglings as life is, if not more.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
I don't think that is true. Let's compare OSL/MSL with GSL/OSL (yeah there weren't many^^). (foreign tournaments are just not consistent enough with the participants i think) If there is interest i would actually do the work
we saw it at other thread about the first 3 or 4 years of BW. BW had more turnover than sc2.
That's a disingenuous comparison, though. Professional gaming was not an industry with established practices for the first several years of BW. The training realities and support systems were very, very different.
I know nothing about BW until 2010 but your reason isnt clear to me. Why is this disingenuos to compare the first 3 years of BW with the first 3 years of Sc2? Training realities is rather no reason because everyone used the same training realities ~10 years ago in BW and nowadays everyone uses the same "modern" training realities.
He's referring to the fact that because it was not "professional" back then, even if you were a champion and extremely good at the game with amazing potential, alot of players just gave up on it because nobody except extremely passionate people like boxer thought it would ever be a real career or occupation. The high turn over rate often reflects players giving up on the game and going to work elsewhere instead of any game issue.
On September 02 2014 17:28 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
I call major bs on this one. There are numerous defining attributes and play styles I can name about different players to distinguish them.
Life in particular is one of those players I'd be confident in being able to identify in a group of mystery zergs. Nobody seems to be able to consistently replicate his aggressive/reactive style of play with the same control. Even back when he burst onto the scene, nearly every top Zerg said they couldn't do it.
I dunno, Donglings (BW) still > Lifelings, bisu probe micro > any worker micro i've ever seen in sc2 barring that one instance when Polt or bomber (?) spammed build supply depot on a ramp while a zerg was attacking in like 2011 or 2012, fantasy vultures >>> bogus hellbats / hellion, I can't think of something comparable in sc2 for alot of things players were trade marked for in BW.
When I started watching BW, JD had already ascended to god-tier so I don't know his gameplay history very well, but was he really as fond of zerglings (in situations where no one else would ever use them to any effect) as Life is? You can argue efficiency or skill all you want, but fact remains that Life's ling-heavy style is incredibly unique and very easy to discern. Does JD being good with lings in BW change that?
Well considering JD made deep championship runs off the back that his ZvZ was probably one of the best player match-ups in BW history, and that in BW ZvZ you ONLY made lings and mutas in the first 10-12 minutes, yeah he was as fond of zerglings as life is, if not more.
So in other word's JD's ling play was near-identical to Effort's?
The point is that Life's composition *and* micro make him instantly identifiable.
As you said, everyone in high level BW ZvZ went Ling - Muta, so they all ended up with the same composition. That JD could distinguish himself by micro alone says a lot about him of course, but you're almost intentionally missing the point about Life being very stylistic (notice the disclaimer of Life using them when they aren't called for - ie not in BW ZvZ when it's the only way to go).
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
Blizzard didn't design it that way. No one has reached the level where they have perfect mechanics, decision making and understanding of Starcraft II yet, so upsets happen when a progamer is unprepared for certain strategies, compositions or they simply make mistakes in positioning, micro or scouting.
Just because YOU don't see Flash's style shining through doesn't mean there isn't a personality in his play. His style is just extremely smart, defense oriented, standard play.
Rain doesn't play like PartinG, sOs or herO; Life does not resemble Soulkey, Snute, or Symbol; and FlaSh doesn't look like Maru, Bbyong, or Innovation.
As far as consistency, have you heard of a Zerg named soO?
I forgot how the documentary was named, but they repeatedly said it was designed that way on purpose, for instance that even a lesser foreigner can win tournaments from time to time.
Rollora,
First, thanks for sharing that video.
Blizzard wanted to put some uncertainty into the game, but it wasn't their intention to design a game with such a large uncertainty that their will never be a bonjwa.
Another factor they wanted to weigh heavily on when designing SC2 is skill, and that reduces some of that uncertainty. If you know you're better than your opponent, there should be less uncertainty. Will a lesser-foreigner win a tournament? For sure, but this could be attributed to other things, and not purely skill. Perhaps it's the foreigner's play style, such that its difficult to read the opponent.
As well, Lunareste was referring to personality shining through in gameplay, not the uncertainty of dominant champions. In fact, SC2 skills vary so much that personalities do shine through. Snute builds a bajillion swarmhosts in some of his zvp games, while hyun favours his roach hydra. Zest is another example of personality shining through. In tvp he prefers 3 colossi 10min push, and in tvz he enjoys using stargates.
The biggest example of personality through gameplay is Avilo. His mech play is absurd numbers of ravens and vikings with speckled tanks and thors. It works and he has crushed pros with it before, but it would rarely work on them twice.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
SC2 has been every bit comparable with BW in terms of champions and dominance. Key difference is that there are many more SC2 tournaments broadcast than BW at the same time. When you actually fact check instead of relying on nostalgia, you'll see a really high turnover rate of the top 16 in the OSL comparable to that of SC2.
I don't think you can really compare Bo1 group stages with Bo3 group stages. When GSL had their old Bo1 group stage format there wasn't a single player who got through group stages 6 times in a row like Flash did in 2009-2010 in OSLs and MSLs, and definitely no one who got to the finals each time like Flash did.
Now that GSL has a Bo3 group stage we're seeing the same players end up in the bracket stage over and over, like Rain, Maru, Zest, and soO. So it's safer to say that Bo1 in BW is as volatile as Bo3 in SC2.
On September 02 2014 12:21 duy2911 wrote: I don't really get why Blizzard tried to design SC2 such that it produces a new champion every 3 months. Any sport that has individuals competing with one another needs a bonjwa at any given time. F1 with Schumacher. Golf with Tiger Wood. Boxing with Mike Tyson. Tennis with Federer. That's what draws the crowds to the stadium.
And has I mentioned that most SC2 players "dominant" players might be good but seem to lost their personality in their play? I mean back in the BW days you can easily recognize players by just by watching their FPVOD: Bisu (four bases simultaneous harassment), Flash (impeccable defense and macro), or JD (split second decision and muta control). Now they all look the same without the faces.
All the hypes with JD or Flash are not because they're overrated. We fans just crave for such personality again.
Blizzard didn't design it that way. No one has reached the level where they have perfect mechanics, decision making and understanding of Starcraft II yet, so upsets happen when a progamer is unprepared for certain strategies, compositions or they simply make mistakes in positioning, micro or scouting.
Just because YOU don't see Flash's style shining through doesn't mean there isn't a personality in his play. His style is just extremely smart, defense oriented, standard play.
Rain doesn't play like PartinG, sOs or herO; Life does not resemble Soulkey, Snute, or Symbol; and FlaSh doesn't look like Maru, Bbyong, or Innovation.
As far as consistency, have you heard of a Zerg named soO?
I forgot how the documentary was named, but they repeatedly said it was designed that way on purpose, for instance that even a lesser foreigner can win tournaments from time to time.
Rollora,
First, thanks for sharing that video.
Blizzard wanted to put some uncertainty into the game, but it wasn't their intention to design a game with such a large uncertainty that their will never be a bonjwa.
Another factor they wanted to weigh heavily on when designing SC2 is skill, and that reduces some of that uncertainty. If you know you're better than your opponent, there should be less uncertainty. Will a lesser-foreigner win a tournament? For sure, but this could be attributed to other things, and not purely skill. Perhaps it's the foreigner's play style, such that its difficult to read the opponent.
As well, Lunareste was referring to personality shining through in gameplay, not the uncertainty of dominant champions. In fact, SC2 skills vary so much that personalities do shine through. Snute builds a bajillion swarmhosts in some of his zvp games, while hyun favours his roach hydra. Zest is another example of personality shining through. In tvp he prefers 3 colossi 10min push, and in tvz he enjoys using stargates.
The biggest example of personality through gameplay is Avilo. His mech play is absurd numbers of ravens and vikings with speckled tanks and thors. It works and he has crushed pros with it before, but it would rarely work on them twice.
And thx for sharing your opinion.Jett.Jack.Alvir. I agree with you in every point, which is nice since it keeps the discussion evolving. Still I have the FEELING, and it might be nostalgia, but that these uncertainties were not that big with BW. Also I still rage about scouted allins that kill my favorites - but that is my fanboyism that maybe leads me to misjudge the situation.
And because you mentioned Avilo or playstyle in general: I can see that there is a big impact of that. Like Flash almost lost to Snute because he wasn't used to the new EU-only (so far) playstyle of zerg. Like when Stephano won his Tourneys and so on. Helps evolving the meta of course.
So it is yet to be seen, if SC2 is TOO uncertain/random/versatile and there will never bee a Flash-like bonjwa. And I hope it to be Flash
What you guys are talking about are build orders and timings. Jaedongs zerglings were recognizable because of micro alone. Maybe it is the same thing in the new game though just that i dont know enough to see it.
When i see that video with jangbis storms it just feels sad. I have never been impressed by the way s protoss use high templar in sc2. I remember when jangbi did that and when i saw it i directly knew that that happens once in a thousand games by the maybe the three best protoss players in the world. Templar vs ghosts in sc2 looks to me to be about who clicks fastest and who has the most luck by catching the other guy off guard - to me it looks completely one dimensional and the same for all pros more or less.
EPT
