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sexy hold by effort, but it was not an allin.
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Hope lives.. Come on effort!
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On July 22 2014 20:12 robson1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 20:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 22 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:41 Exarl25 wrote:
It is viable. There is absolutely no chance in hell he would do the same thing 3 times on this map in such important games if it didn't have merit. Standard play fails too if your build isn't tight enough and you are slow on your transitions. If he got that AA up faster the game goes on. If he gets that AA up he still loses to the addition of Templars. Air/Templars wins everything in lategame TvP. Going to trust in the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague over yours. Sure, the 0-2 record against answers that were not hilariously off speaks for itself. This is as silly as saying that a bio player losing 0-2 proves that bio isn't viable, just because his composition wasn't hilariously off. You were tricked and have 2 vikings too few to defend his colossi. You didn't scout ahead enough and ran into some storms. Etc. etc. In a pro game you can lose if anything is slightly off. That's common sense. You should know this. I also choose to trust a professional gamer who was comfortable enough to let the game go that long and do it 3 times and surely has a much better understanding of the game than you to say it's not viable. No it's not. There are plenty games were bio works, there is 1 game where mech vs toss worked, and it was basically a complete derp by Classic.
There are more of them, actually, but they are few and relatively far between
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United States11403 Posts
That was a surprisingly good hold. The intentional wall opening worked.
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On July 22 2014 20:09 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 20:06 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 20:04 robson1 wrote:On July 22 2014 20:02 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:58 Nebuchad wrote:On July 22 2014 19:54 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:41 Exarl25 wrote:
It is viable. There is absolutely no chance in hell he would do the same thing 3 times on this map in such important games if it didn't have merit. Standard play fails too if your build isn't tight enough and you are slow on your transitions. If he got that AA up faster the game goes on. If he gets that AA up he still loses to the addition of Templars. Air/Templars wins everything in lategame TvP. Going to trust in the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague over yours. Sure, the 0-2 record against answers that were not hilariously off speaks for itself. Broadcasted games represent a ridiculously small sample of what is actually played. Getting sent out 3 times in a row on this map and doing that build every time. It is working in practice, and it isn't Bbyong alone who has faith in it. Games these important are not ones where you experiment. I mean, you don't know what happens in practice either. Maybe Bbyong gets megarekt with bio lately and slightly less rekt with mech, so he decides to do this over bio. You can't expect us to follow your idea based on what we don't know, we obviously need more than that (I think Maru said recently that mech was not so bad vs protoss, that would be an example of "more than that", but still not enough) If that was the case then why send out Bbyong at all? It's not like CJ Entus doesn't have other good players. And I don't see how it working better than bio for a player of Bbyong's caliber can possibly be a point against it. bbyong is their semi ace and at least their second biggest star. You cannot bench him in the semi finals unless he is literally getting pwned in every game on ladder/pratice. Him getting pwned in practice was kind of the foundation for that argument. Again, they are sending out this player on this map to do this built every time, I don't see how anyone can possibly argue against that indicating that at the very least this build is working well in practice and the team as a whole has faith in it. No it wasn't. The foundation of my argument is that you're asking us to believe something based on what we don't know. That works in a few things in life, but it won't work here.
What we don't know? What we know is that Bbyong has been sent out on this specific map 3 times in a row and done the same build all 3 times. What we know is that these are really important matches that the whole team are taking extremely seriously. We have the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague, vs the naysaying of some guys on TL and a 3 game sample.
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On July 22 2014 20:13 Zealously wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 20:12 robson1 wrote:On July 22 2014 20:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 22 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:41 Exarl25 wrote:
It is viable. There is absolutely no chance in hell he would do the same thing 3 times on this map in such important games if it didn't have merit. Standard play fails too if your build isn't tight enough and you are slow on your transitions. If he got that AA up faster the game goes on. If he gets that AA up he still loses to the addition of Templars. Air/Templars wins everything in lategame TvP. Going to trust in the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague over yours. Sure, the 0-2 record against answers that were not hilariously off speaks for itself. This is as silly as saying that a bio player losing 0-2 proves that bio isn't viable, just because his composition wasn't hilariously off. You were tricked and have 2 vikings too few to defend his colossi. You didn't scout ahead enough and ran into some storms. Etc. etc. In a pro game you can lose if anything is slightly off. That's common sense. You should know this. I also choose to trust a professional gamer who was comfortable enough to let the game go that long and do it 3 times and surely has a much better understanding of the game than you to say it's not viable. No it's not. There are plenty games were bio works, there is 1 game where mech vs toss worked, and it was basically a complete derp by Classic. There are more of them, actually, but they are few and relatively far between
on PL/GSL level? I don't remember any other game within the last 4-5 months. But I could be wrong obviously. Still, my point would not be any different if 2 out 9 games mech worked, and at least one of those games was basically a throw by the toss.
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god damn it effort, keep upgrading ffs!
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On July 22 2014 20:14 Exarl25 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 20:09 Nebuchad wrote:On July 22 2014 20:06 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 20:04 robson1 wrote:On July 22 2014 20:02 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:58 Nebuchad wrote:On July 22 2014 19:54 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 TheDwf wrote:
[quote]
If he gets that AA up he still loses to the addition of Templars. Air/Templars wins everything in lategame TvP. Going to trust in the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague over yours. Sure, the 0-2 record against answers that were not hilariously off speaks for itself. Broadcasted games represent a ridiculously small sample of what is actually played. Getting sent out 3 times in a row on this map and doing that build every time. It is working in practice, and it isn't Bbyong alone who has faith in it. Games these important are not ones where you experiment. I mean, you don't know what happens in practice either. Maybe Bbyong gets megarekt with bio lately and slightly less rekt with mech, so he decides to do this over bio. You can't expect us to follow your idea based on what we don't know, we obviously need more than that (I think Maru said recently that mech was not so bad vs protoss, that would be an example of "more than that", but still not enough) If that was the case then why send out Bbyong at all? It's not like CJ Entus doesn't have other good players. And I don't see how it working better than bio for a player of Bbyong's caliber can possibly be a point against it. bbyong is their semi ace and at least their second biggest star. You cannot bench him in the semi finals unless he is literally getting pwned in every game on ladder/pratice. Him getting pwned in practice was kind of the foundation for that argument. Again, they are sending out this player on this map to do this built every time, I don't see how anyone can possibly argue against that indicating that at the very least this build is working well in practice and the team as a whole has faith in it. No it wasn't. The foundation of my argument is that you're asking us to believe something based on what we don't know. That works in a few things in life, but it won't work here. What we don't know? What we know is that Bbyong has been sent out on this specific map 3 times in a row and done the same build all 3 times. What we know is that these are really important matches that the whole team are taking extremely seriously. We have the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague, vs the naysaying of some guys on TL and a 3 game sample.
Oh and the fact that he got murdered in those games. And the fact that nobody else tries mech on korean level. And the fact that he ONLY did mech on this specific map.
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On July 22 2014 20:12 robson1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 20:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 22 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:41 Exarl25 wrote:
It is viable. There is absolutely no chance in hell he would do the same thing 3 times on this map in such important games if it didn't have merit. Standard play fails too if your build isn't tight enough and you are slow on your transitions. If he got that AA up faster the game goes on. If he gets that AA up he still loses to the addition of Templars. Air/Templars wins everything in lategame TvP. Going to trust in the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague over yours. Sure, the 0-2 record against answers that were not hilariously off speaks for itself. This is as silly as saying that a bio player losing 0-2 proves that bio isn't viable, just because his composition wasn't hilariously off. You were tricked and have 2 vikings too few to defend his colossi. You didn't scout ahead enough and ran into some storms. Etc. etc. In a pro game you can lose if anything is slightly off. That's common sense. You should know this. I also choose to trust a professional gamer who was comfortable enough to let the game go that long and do it 3 times and surely has a much better understanding of the game than you to say it's not viable. No it's not. There are plenty games were bio works, there is 1 game where mech vs toss worked, and it was basically a complete derp by Classic.
That's not even the point. The point is that Bbyong could have played better and that you don't need to be hilariously off in order to lose. Thus, losing to something two times is in no way conclusive whether X works against Y or not.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
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On July 22 2014 20:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:41 Exarl25 wrote:
It is viable. There is absolutely no chance in hell he would do the same thing 3 times on this map in such important games if it didn't have merit. Standard play fails too if your build isn't tight enough and you are slow on your transitions. If he got that AA up faster the game goes on. If he gets that AA up he still loses to the addition of Templars. Air/Templars wins everything in lategame TvP. Going to trust in the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague over yours. Sure, the 0-2 record against answers that were not hilariously off speaks for itself. This is as silly as saying that a bio player losing 0-2 proves that bio isn't viable, just because his composition wasn't hilariously off. You were tricked and have 2 vikings too few to defend his colossi. You didn't scout ahead enough and ran into some storms. Etc. etc. In a pro game you can lose if anything is slightly off. That's common sense. You should know this. I also choose to trust a professional gamer who was comfortable enough to let the game go that long and do it 3 times and surely has a much better understanding of the game than you to say it's not viable.
Believe if you want to believe. The day the mech:bio ratio isn't 500:1 anymore in high level Korean TvP, the conversations about the viability of mech can start. Until that's it's pure faith from people who want to believe vs the trial of reality.
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Soulkey ain't that far behind.
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On July 22 2014 20:16 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2014 20:12 robson1 wrote:On July 22 2014 20:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:On July 22 2014 19:48 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 Exarl25 wrote:On July 22 2014 19:44 TheDwf wrote:On July 22 2014 19:41 Exarl25 wrote:
It is viable. There is absolutely no chance in hell he would do the same thing 3 times on this map in such important games if it didn't have merit. Standard play fails too if your build isn't tight enough and you are slow on your transitions. If he got that AA up faster the game goes on. If he gets that AA up he still loses to the addition of Templars. Air/Templars wins everything in lategame TvP. Going to trust in the judgement of a team in the playoffs of Proleague over yours. Sure, the 0-2 record against answers that were not hilariously off speaks for itself. This is as silly as saying that a bio player losing 0-2 proves that bio isn't viable, just because his composition wasn't hilariously off. You were tricked and have 2 vikings too few to defend his colossi. You didn't scout ahead enough and ran into some storms. Etc. etc. In a pro game you can lose if anything is slightly off. That's common sense. You should know this. I also choose to trust a professional gamer who was comfortable enough to let the game go that long and do it 3 times and surely has a much better understanding of the game than you to say it's not viable. No it's not. There are plenty games were bio works, there is 1 game where mech vs toss worked, and it was basically a complete derp by Classic. That's not even the point. The point is that Bbyong could have played better and that 2 games losing to something doesn't prove that mech isn't viable against specific strategy/composition.
You're off base with this I'm sorry. You cannot declare something viable based on a pro doing it 3 times and getting murderd 2 times, while confusing classic once.
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On July 22 2014 20:17 Zealously wrote:
Effort is ahead
but what does it mean???
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Effort loses his upgrade advantage....
*sighs*
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I don't get ZvZ but effort is winning?!
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EPT
