[MLG] Anaheim 2014 Day 3 - Page 113

Whining about Protoss or balance will be more harshly moderated from page 90 onwards.

Before making comments on race picking, refer to MLG's rules

Darkhorse

United States23455 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2241

On June 23 2014 05:51 OminouS wrote:
Sorry if I'm late to the party but did MLG cut the extended series rule? Does the WB finalist have an edge over the LB one?

LB finalist has to win 2 bo3's

Josh_Video

Canada798 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2242

On June 23 2014 05:48 ClueClueClue wrote:

Show nested quote +

Exactly. He's the expected ace player on a proleague team, that isn't among the very best I admit, but still reached playoffs during season 2. DRG is pretty good. But so is Scarlett.

Yeah, but DRG has been having a tough time lately. He still beats most people, but he is a shell of the DRG that once was. Hes 10-14 in PL, he hasnt made it past the Ro16 in GSL since 2012 S3. Hes still good, but hes not among the best anymore.

Tobblish

Sweden6404 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2243

On June 23 2014 05:50 Incognoto wrote:
I feel that Koreans are very good when they have time to prepare, less good when they have to mass games like it's been done right here. Thoughts?

When you don't have 10 Koreans analyzing your replays a week before your match it usually helps.

ssxsilver

United States4409 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2244

On June 23 2014 05:50 Incognoto wrote:
I feel that Koreans are very good when they have time to prepare, less good when they have to mass games like it's been done right here. Thoughts?

It might hold true for the Kespa Koreans, but there's also the fact that they have less experience with these marathon tournaments.

Zealously

East Gorteau22261 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2245

On June 23 2014 05:50 Incognoto wrote:
I feel that Koreans are very good when they have time to prepare, less good when they have to mass games like it's been done right here. Thoughts?

I think Koreans are just better in every format except the one where Puck wins

Waise

3165 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2246

On June 23 2014 05:51 PhoenixVoid wrote:

Show nested quote +

Not like Koreans haven't been winning MLGs, DreamHack, IEM and other weekend tournaments for a while but I'd say it more depends on how the players are comfortable in a foreign setting and how familiar they are with the foreign players.

my personal opinion is it's all kind of BS and being good is being good

like i think preparation matters a little more in bo1s, but that's about it... skill is skill. i understand many would differ tho

Darkhorse

United States23455 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2247

This is important guys.

Kespa Chairman Jun Byung-Hun and GOMTV SCII Manager Mr. Chae have released a joint statement condemning DongRaeGu's actions:
Byung-Hun, "We were deeply saddened by the terrible behavior exhibited by one MVP.DongRaeGu during his trip to Anaheim. Losing to a foreigner is a heinous crime, but an off race? Unacceptable. Believe me, you will never see him outside of Kespa jail ever again."

Mr. Chae, "It is with great excitement that I announce our newest Starcraft II program in conjunction with Kespa: The DRG-never-gets-out-of-the-Ro32-again Experience! We will make sure that DRG plays nothing but Protoss for the rest of his life, and we will task our best field agent SKT.Rain with keeping him locked down in Kespa jail. We would also like to extend an invitation to Scarlett to come play Protoss in Korea if she feels GSL is difficult enough."

Aeromi

France14461 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2248

On June 23 2014 05:51 Circumstance wrote:

Show nested quote +

Last premier tournament won by a foreigner was a Dreamhack in 2012. So maybe?

Sen won a tournament with MMA and SuperNova after DH 2012.

FueledUpAndReadyToGo

Netherlands30548 Posts

June 22 2014 20:52 GMT

#2249

'Go watch alpha' on B stream

Lorning

Belgica34432 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2250

On June 23 2014 05:51 hariooo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lame but inoffensive meme gets the same punishment as that horrible anti-trans slur-filled post a few dozen pages ago. That's the right message to send. Please. The latter deserved the full nuke.

People posting memes should get perma banned

People posting bad memes doubly so

stuchiu

Fiddler's Green42661 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2251

On June 23 2014 05:52 Zealously wrote:

Show nested quote +

I think Koreans are just better in every format except the one where Puck wins

Too bad Puck had to play an American.

Waise

3165 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2252

On June 23 2014 05:51 hariooo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lame but inoffensive meme gets the same punishment as that horrible anti-trans slur-filled post a few dozen pages ago. That's the right message to send. Please. The latter deserved the full nuke.

i agree but probably take it to website feedback

Zealously

East Gorteau22261 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2253

On June 23 2014 05:51 hariooo wrote:

Show nested quote +

Lame but inoffensive meme gets the same punishment as that horrible anti-trans slur-filled post a few dozen pages ago. That's the right message to send. Please. The latter deserved the full nuke.

Please take issues with moderation to website feedback or let the moderation team handle it.

r691175002

249 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2254

I think the issue is that Protoss is literally the only race where you can just swap in for a game and toss out a random all-in.

Imagine a player trying to offrace as Terran. You can't learn to split marines in a couple of games. There are no consistently viable all-ins to choose. There is no "Terran book of bullshit" that can sneak you a win if the enemy gets an unlucky scout. If you want to win you better be solid with all aspects of the race.

We all know Protoss can take you very far with just a handful of tricky builds. Outclassed players can always hope to take games via proxies, hidden dark shrine, massive gateway all ins...

And to add insult to injury no other race has any equivalent since the MSC blocks all early pressure.

User was warned for this post

FuRRie

Belgium815 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2255

Are epople seriously overanalysing DRG's loss to a protoss all-in?

It's an all in and she played it well, it's not the biggest discovery since the wheel.

chipmonklord17

United States11944 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2256

On June 23 2014 05:52 Darkhorse wrote:
This is important guys.

Show nested quote +

They should use their new prisoner to locate their most elusive runaway

Jett.Jack.Alvir

Canada2250 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2257

guys I missed most of these matches, can someone please fill me in on what scarlett did? from what I read, it seems scarlett chose protoss vs DRG to beat him?

Is this correct? she switched race to beat drg? lol that is crazy! I don't know of anyone that used a race switch strategy to win, but it does make sense.

If my opponent has prepared for X race, and I switch to Y race, I stand to have a decent chance to win due to the element of surprise.

fuzzylogic44

Canada2633 Posts

June 22 2014 20:53 GMT

#2258

On June 23 2014 05:51 OminouS wrote:
Sorry if I'm late to the party but did MLG cut the extended series rule? Does the WB finalist have an edge over the LB one?

Yes but that's not extended series. I think extended series is out.

Foreverkul

United States1649 Posts

June 22 2014 20:54 GMT

#2259

On June 23 2014 05:42 Zealously wrote:

Show nested quote +

On June 23 2014 05:40 Foreverkul wrote:

On June 23 2014 05:32 Zealously wrote:

On June 23 2014 05:29 Foreverkul wrote:

On June 23 2014 05:25 Konranjyoutai wrote:

On June 23 2014 05:21 radscorpion9 wrote:

On June 23 2014 05:20 sacrilegious wrote:
Aside from what she did whether it was truly legal or not (guessing the MLG rule books say it was ok), that was a history in itself BO3 series there... to race switch with the stakes on the line... holy crap that was insane she took out DRG

I feel like people don't realize how important it was that DRG did three expansions so quickly. He put himself in the riskiest of positions. I mean as someone who is facing an opponent who rarely plays protoss (you would think), what's the first thing you would expect? Probably an all-in of some type, because its the easiest to execute. Yet he does the riskiest build against that.

I'm not sure its so much Scarlett's victory as it was DRG's loss

As Day9 stated when casting the game and DRG sacked an overlord to scout, this is how DRG holds that pressure. He mass produced queens and slow lings as that is usually all that DRG needs to hold it (you can watch his older games vs this 7 gate pressure and see the same thing). Scarlett just memorized the build order and executed it properly with stutter micro. I'm not saying that its right, but that is what happened and DRG thought he could hold. Realistically you should have to do more than just memorize a build to win a game.

In general you shouldn't be able to play a whole other race at a competitive level just by practicing it a few weeks. It devalues the players of that race. This seems like a big deal for a game that is already jokingly quoted as "dead game" and the race in question is already under fire for being considered OP. u_u

In general, forum-goers shouldn't assume that they know how much a player has practised or how good said player is at various things. Your assumption that Scarlett has "only practised a few weeks" is based on the faulty idea that she does not already have monstrously good base skills applicable to all three races. Mvp used to be able to beat European pros with all three races without breaking sweat. It's not unheard of, but you're letting your bias against Protoss convince you that she really only won because she picked Protoss, disregarding skill.

Scarlett is good, no doubt about that. The issue is that most people of a race practice years with that race to reach the levels of progaming that are in. When a progamer can switch to another race without the years of experience in it (I assume Scarlett practices Protoss less than Zerg) and still performs at the level of someone who has used a race their whole life, there are a few things to think about such as: Is the race switcher just that much better than their opponent? Is the race easier to use than other races? (Scarlett herself said it, perhaps as a joke but the race is already under fire) Is there some other flaw in the game that makes it appear this way?

Obviously though, 1 game doesn't PROVE anything, but its definitely got peoples attention and could be a concern.

What do you think about Mvp and MC winning with all three races both in Korea and abroad? Design flaws inherent to Terran, Protoss and Zerg?
Listen, I understand that you feel Protoss is currently favored. But if that is the case, the difference is so negligable that Scarlett's win can and should be credited to her skill and the surprise element rather than any imbalance.

I agree that the "Protoss OP" sentiment is clearly hyperbole and the imbalance (if any) is often negligible. Any of these players at MLG would destroy me with any race they choose, but they can choose an off-race and still win against people of arguably equal skill? There are a few conclusions such as "DRG is significantly worse than Scarlett" "Scarlett is exceptionally gifted with another race" "The race is easier to learn in comparison to the players primary race." "The races share similar strategy components that allow switching more easily." But because the race she switched to was already under fire, it added to the "OP hype." Do we need to change the races? Is there an imbalance? I'm certainly not an authority on it, but its definitely something to show concern over based on the communities feelings on the state of the game.

GENerateSAYing

United States103 Posts

June 22 2014 20:54 GMT

#2260

Can someone tell me if Bomber/JD got any WCS points for their efforts this weekend?

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[MLG] Anaheim 2014 Day 3 - Page 113

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