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On March 16 2014 07:00 forsooth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 06:55 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On March 16 2014 06:54 i.of.the.storm wrote:On March 16 2014 06:50 baba1 wrote:
It doesn't matter how good SoS is or how good he can blink his stalkers. It doesn't make exciting games. Blink stalkers almost every PvT is insulting especially in a100k tournaments.
2 boring protoss will battle it out with boring unit compositions in the finals. Yay. I don't care who has the most colossi left at the end of an engagement so I won't watch.
Meh, even as a Terran PvP is actually really good to watch these days. That's the main reason I don't think MSC should be nerfed, because it stabilizes PvP so much. I like the one guy's idea about moving Time Warp to Twilight Council research, it'd weaken blink all ins considerably without making MSC useless. Maybe even make it like warp gates where it's really cheap but just takes a while to research so that it's just delayed and not prohibitive to get. Well Time Warp is pretty critical to PvP, though. And if you make someone choose between Time Warp or Blink research, then you could make Stargate openings even way stronger than they already are. ... seriously?
time warp is critical is PvP. it's reason why people play zealot archon immortal and not colo all day
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TAEJA RETIRE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
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On March 16 2014 07:11 Darkhorse wrote:
Maybe Liquid could pick up another Korean terran in his place. Maybe one who used to be on both TSL and Fnatic.
But he was on EG.
Only HuK is allowed to come to TL from EG if it ever happens
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On March 16 2014 07:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:00 forsooth wrote:On March 16 2014 06:55 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On March 16 2014 06:54 i.of.the.storm wrote:On March 16 2014 06:50 baba1 wrote:
It doesn't matter how good SoS is or how good he can blink his stalkers. It doesn't make exciting games. Blink stalkers almost every PvT is insulting especially in a100k tournaments.
2 boring protoss will battle it out with boring unit compositions in the finals. Yay. I don't care who has the most colossi left at the end of an engagement so I won't watch.
Meh, even as a Terran PvP is actually really good to watch these days. That's the main reason I don't think MSC should be nerfed, because it stabilizes PvP so much. I like the one guy's idea about moving Time Warp to Twilight Council research, it'd weaken blink all ins considerably without making MSC useless. Maybe even make it like warp gates where it's really cheap but just takes a while to research so that it's just delayed and not prohibitive to get. Well Time Warp is pretty critical to PvP, though. And if you make someone choose between Time Warp or Blink research, then you could make Stargate openings even way stronger than they already are. ... seriously? time warp is critical is PvP. it's reason why people play zealot archon immortal and not colo all day
and 30 sec 50 min 50 gas upgrade (or something in a similar vein) would change that how?
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United States23455 Posts
On March 16 2014 07:26 ForTehDarkseid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:25 Darkhorse wrote:On March 16 2014 07:24 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:21 scypio wrote:On March 16 2014 07:20 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:18 scypio wrote:Fun fact: if you take a look at http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments and look for four worst-balanced consecutive tournaments 2014 will simply rise and shine, with 7/8 protoss in finals of IEM Season VIII - World Championship, IEM Season VIII - Cologne ,ASUS ROG Winter 2014 and IEM Season VIII - Sao Paulo. It has never been this bad. We had 6/8 zergs at the fall of 2012, with  Life and Leenock (MLG Fall Championship), Sniper and HyuN (GSL Season 5), Nerchio and Bly (Dreamhack Open Bucharest) split by  Mana and  ForGG (ESWC 2012). Terran reached similiar level of OP in 2010 (starting with DreamHack Winter 2010), and July 2011 (starting with 2011 MLG Anaheim) with 6/8 players in four finals. It has never been as bad. Not even in the darkest days of WoL. You should take more than race distribution at the finals for consideration. I wanted to make a post about racial distribution at the finals  Usually the balance is judged by Ro16-Ro8 racial distribution. This just isn't true. Eh, why?
Judging balance from the Ro16 is (normally) not helpful. In any given tournament there are bound to be 16 players who are strictly better than the rest. For example, if at a Dreamhack which has multiple group stages there ended up being 16 protoss in the ro16 but those 16 were all the Koreans does that reflect on balance? Or if the same thing happened and there was an even racial distribution but once again with all the Koreans getting through would that really reflect if there were issues or not?
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Austria24422 Posts
On March 16 2014 07:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:00 forsooth wrote:On March 16 2014 06:55 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On March 16 2014 06:54 i.of.the.storm wrote:On March 16 2014 06:50 baba1 wrote:
It doesn't matter how good SoS is or how good he can blink his stalkers. It doesn't make exciting games. Blink stalkers almost every PvT is insulting especially in a100k tournaments.
2 boring protoss will battle it out with boring unit compositions in the finals. Yay. I don't care who has the most colossi left at the end of an engagement so I won't watch.
Meh, even as a Terran PvP is actually really good to watch these days. That's the main reason I don't think MSC should be nerfed, because it stabilizes PvP so much. I like the one guy's idea about moving Time Warp to Twilight Council research, it'd weaken blink all ins considerably without making MSC useless. Maybe even make it like warp gates where it's really cheap but just takes a while to research so that it's just delayed and not prohibitive to get. Well Time Warp is pretty critical to PvP, though. And if you make someone choose between Time Warp or Blink research, then you could make Stargate openings even way stronger than they already are. ... seriously? time warp is critical is PvP. it's reason why people play zealot archon immortal and not colo all day
Not entirely, the addition of tempests as a transition out of charge/archon/immortal is the biggest deal. If anything, timewarp can work massively against you when engaging colossus armies
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On March 16 2014 07:27 Xinzoe wrote:
TAEJA RETIRE NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Oh god Taeja no... plz
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ehh... releasing replays before the finals is pretty lame isn't it...?
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On March 16 2014 07:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:00 forsooth wrote:On March 16 2014 06:55 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On March 16 2014 06:54 i.of.the.storm wrote:On March 16 2014 06:50 baba1 wrote:
It doesn't matter how good SoS is or how good he can blink his stalkers. It doesn't make exciting games. Blink stalkers almost every PvT is insulting especially in a100k tournaments.
2 boring protoss will battle it out with boring unit compositions in the finals. Yay. I don't care who has the most colossi left at the end of an engagement so I won't watch.
Meh, even as a Terran PvP is actually really good to watch these days. That's the main reason I don't think MSC should be nerfed, because it stabilizes PvP so much. I like the one guy's idea about moving Time Warp to Twilight Council research, it'd weaken blink all ins considerably without making MSC useless. Maybe even make it like warp gates where it's really cheap but just takes a while to research so that it's just delayed and not prohibitive to get. Well Time Warp is pretty critical to PvP, though. And if you make someone choose between Time Warp or Blink research, then you could make Stargate openings even way stronger than they already are. ... seriously? time warp is critical is PvP. it's reason why people play zealot archon immortal and not colo all day
So moving time warp to twilight council/cybernetics core makes zealot/archon/immortal not viable? Unless you're justifying the existence of the spell rather when it can become available, which is the discussion at hand.
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Blizzard ignores the Community way too much about ideas for balance. Its sad how the community backlashes about things that are broken Blizzard will just laugh at us like we don't know what were thinking and the game is completely fine. you guys don't play the game professionally and don't know what is actually broken and what isnt (neither do I but).
I'll point out some things:
Free Unit are too cost effective (locusts)
Playing to protoss builds should not be how the game works.
Games that are 25-35 minutes are better than one sided all-ins that end in 15 minutes (SC2 time).
Shouldn't die to an all-in that is scouted and prepared for (at least be somewhat behind, but not out of the game).
If you guys cant see those problems in the game then why are you guys hired. Not all changes have to be about the player future and that their career may be ruined. The players have to adapt and if they don't, they fail. If the player are good enough, they'll adapt into the new changes well. If the players are kinda falling off, then they may fall off completely.
EDIT: do not bash the players for picking protoss. They must have felt the race was fun to play and other things. Not that it was broken. Blame Blizzard for not balancing the game right
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United States23455 Posts
On March 16 2014 07:32 sharkie wrote:ehh... releasing replays before the finals is pretty lame isn't it...?
Eh the finalists could probably get a hold of the replays of their opponents anyway. Not a huge deal I don't think.
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On March 16 2014 07:31 Dontkillme wrote:Oh god Taeja no... plz
he's retiring after WCS gg potential-bonjwa retiring
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On March 16 2014 07:32 DigitalisDestructi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:27 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:On March 16 2014 07:00 forsooth wrote:On March 16 2014 06:55 KrazyTrumpet wrote:On March 16 2014 06:54 i.of.the.storm wrote:On March 16 2014 06:50 baba1 wrote:
It doesn't matter how good SoS is or how good he can blink his stalkers. It doesn't make exciting games. Blink stalkers almost every PvT is insulting especially in a100k tournaments.
2 boring protoss will battle it out with boring unit compositions in the finals. Yay. I don't care who has the most colossi left at the end of an engagement so I won't watch.
Meh, even as a Terran PvP is actually really good to watch these days. That's the main reason I don't think MSC should be nerfed, because it stabilizes PvP so much. I like the one guy's idea about moving Time Warp to Twilight Council research, it'd weaken blink all ins considerably without making MSC useless. Maybe even make it like warp gates where it's really cheap but just takes a while to research so that it's just delayed and not prohibitive to get. Well Time Warp is pretty critical to PvP, though. And if you make someone choose between Time Warp or Blink research, then you could make Stargate openings even way stronger than they already are. ... seriously? time warp is critical is PvP. it's reason why people play zealot archon immortal and not colo all day So moving time warp to twilight council/cybernetics core makes zealot/archon/immortal not viable? Unless you're justifying the existence of the spell rather when it can become available, which is the discussion at hand.
I responded to bolded part by forsooth.
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On March 16 2014 07:28 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:26 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:25 Darkhorse wrote:On March 16 2014 07:24 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:21 scypio wrote:On March 16 2014 07:20 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:18 scypio wrote:Fun fact: if you take a look at http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments and look for four worst-balanced consecutive tournaments 2014 will simply rise and shine, with 7/8 protoss in finals of IEM Season VIII - World Championship, IEM Season VIII - Cologne ,ASUS ROG Winter 2014 and IEM Season VIII - Sao Paulo. It has never been this bad. We had 6/8 zergs at the fall of 2012, with Life and Leenock (MLG Fall Championship), Sniper and HyuN (GSL Season 5), Nerchio and Bly (Dreamhack Open Bucharest) split by Mana and ForGG (ESWC 2012). Terran reached similiar level of OP in 2010 (starting with DreamHack Winter 2010), and July 2011 (starting with 2011 MLG Anaheim) with 6/8 players in four finals. It has never been as bad. Not even in the darkest days of WoL. You should take more than race distribution at the finals for consideration. I wanted to make a post about racial distribution at the finals Usually the balance is judged by Ro16-Ro8 racial distribution. This just isn't true. Eh, why? Judging balance from the Ro16 is (normally) not helpful. In any given tournament there are bound to be 16 players who are strictly better than the rest. For example, if at a Dreamhack which has multiple group stages there ended up being 16 protoss in the ro16 but those 16 were all the Koreans does that reflect on balance? Or if the same thing happened and there was an even racial distribution but once again with all the Koreans getting through would that really reflect if there were issues or not?
Yes it does, because there are non-Protoss players from Korea. The problem with considering finals only you face - it could be just 2-3 extremely talented players, not the whole race having an upperhand in competetion.
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My whole life is starcraft.... My first love for video games was BW.
It's sad that this is the end. When CS GO has over 100 k viewers and league has over 300k viewers... and SC 2 gets 50?
When protoss' can go blink all ins and get scouted early and still win... somethings wrong. It's equivalent to scouting 2 guys in a brush in League, and still die 2 on 3. Please nerf the blink c/d or research time. THe mothership core vision radius didn't do anything.
This is what i love about League. somethings broken, they fix it next patch. You never see the same champions played for a year which creates change. People don't wanna see BL/infestor every game, or nowadays, blink all ins or immortal pushes.
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Watch as sOs gets another 100k.
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If you want to judge balance by race representation you should imo look at RO16, and even RO32 (in an invitational RO32 generally isn't useful, but in something like Code-S, where they have to win qualifiers or finish high in the previous season it is useful). Anything smaller than that and your sample size is way too small.
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pvp finals  Nooooooo
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On March 16 2014 07:28 Darkhorse wrote:Show nested quote +On March 16 2014 07:26 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:25 Darkhorse wrote:On March 16 2014 07:24 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:21 scypio wrote:On March 16 2014 07:20 ForTehDarkseid wrote:On March 16 2014 07:18 scypio wrote:Fun fact: if you take a look at http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Premier_Tournaments and look for four worst-balanced consecutive tournaments 2014 will simply rise and shine, with 7/8 protoss in finals of IEM Season VIII - World Championship, IEM Season VIII - Cologne ,ASUS ROG Winter 2014 and IEM Season VIII - Sao Paulo. It has never been this bad. We had 6/8 zergs at the fall of 2012, with Life and Leenock (MLG Fall Championship), Sniper and HyuN (GSL Season 5), Nerchio and Bly (Dreamhack Open Bucharest) split by Mana and ForGG (ESWC 2012). Terran reached similiar level of OP in 2010 (starting with DreamHack Winter 2010), and July 2011 (starting with 2011 MLG Anaheim) with 6/8 players in four finals. It has never been as bad. Not even in the darkest days of WoL. You should take more than race distribution at the finals for consideration. I wanted to make a post about racial distribution at the finals Usually the balance is judged by Ro16-Ro8 racial distribution. This just isn't true. Eh, why? Judging balance from the Ro16 is (normally) not helpful. In any given tournament there are bound to be 16 players who are strictly better than the rest. For example, if at a Dreamhack which has multiple group stages there ended up being 16 protoss in the ro16 but those 16 were all the Koreans does that reflect on balance? Or if the same thing happened and there was an even racial distribution but once again with all the Koreans getting through would that really reflect if there were issues or not?
judging by ro16 makes way more sense than finals
2 out of those 7 protoss is herO, maybe herO is just really really good?
And so many series in this tournament went 3-2, how can anyone cry balance...
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EPT
