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On October 12 2013 04:40 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:38 NarutO wrote:
I don't see any reason to bash Flash here. He barely made mistakes. Against a Templar opening there isn't really a lot you can do, especially considering its BelShir which is very straight forward. Drops can only come from one side and attacks at the third base can be deflected quiet good as well.
Maybe people who have no clue about Terran or Protoss or the match up in particular should stop bashing players. State was ahead because the general opening allowed him to be save, get his third base up regardless and Flash couldn't really do shit. Usually if you cannot put down aggression against Protoss and deal no damage whatsoever, it results in Protoss being ahead, if you wasn't greedy to begin with.
Thats why he 'struggled' yet when you saw the fight, even though State fucked up, Flash still won convincingly, when he should not have won like that. flash didnt play good. did he?
What did he do wrong according to you?
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United States23455 Posts
I feel like we've seen more contaminate than normal at this tourney. I like it.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On October 12 2013 04:40 Daralii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:39 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 12 2013 04:38 TheDwf wrote:On October 12 2013 04:36 Latto wrote:
I'd really like to see Terrans use ghosts a bit more flexibly..
In late game i.e. last game flash vs state we see a high number of ghosts (which is nice, not many terrans get ghosts in general) and Terrans have high gas while going bio, so putting that gas into ghosts is the way to go.
Then in an engagement vs Protoss, use the ghosts to land the emp's and snipe high temps best you can...
but then I'd like to see Terrans use those ghosts with left over energy to use mass snipes vs zealots, I know snipe does good vs zealots and why not, imo better than cloaking the ghosts (assuming they have obs) and reducing the amount of zealots would help loads in the engagement... why don't we ever see this? Because Snipe does less damage than Ghosts' regular attack (vs Light targets) since the nerf; not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have spare apm to do that anyway. Snipe was ridiculous before the nerf though. I mean mass snipes was the counter to everything late game TvZ. Remember that one MVP game where he just went pure ghost and stomped ultra/infestor/brood lord?
Poor Julyzerg.
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On October 12 2013 04:40 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:38 NarutO wrote:
I don't see any reason to bash Flash here. He barely made mistakes. Against a Templar opening there isn't really a lot you can do, especially considering its BelShir which is very straight forward. Drops can only come from one side and attacks at the third base can be deflected quiet good as well.
Maybe people who have no clue about Terran or Protoss or the match up in particular should stop bashing players. State was ahead because the general opening allowed him to be save, get his third base up regardless and Flash couldn't really do shit. Usually if you cannot put down aggression against Protoss and deal no damage whatsoever, it results in Protoss being ahead, if you wasn't greedy to begin with.
Thats why he 'struggled' yet when you saw the fight, even though State fucked up, Flash still won convincingly, when he should not have won like that. flash didnt play good. did he?
maybe people just have this expectation that if you're not completely smashing a foreign player, you're slumping. maybe people need to stop having such low expectations of other players. Flash didn't play bad at all it's just that State played solid.
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On October 12 2013 04:40 75 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:38 NarutO wrote:
I don't see any reason to bash Flash here. He barely made mistakes. Against a Templar opening there isn't really a lot you can do, especially considering its BelShir which is very straight forward. Drops can only come from one side and attacks at the third base can be deflected quiet good as well.
Maybe people who have no clue about Terran or Protoss or the match up in particular should stop bashing players. State was ahead because the general opening allowed him to be save, get his third base up regardless and Flash couldn't really do shit. Usually if you cannot put down aggression against Protoss and deal no damage whatsoever, it results in Protoss being ahead, if you wasn't greedy to begin with.
Thats why he 'struggled' yet when you saw the fight, even though State fucked up, Flash still won convincingly, when he should not have won like that. flash didnt play good. did he?
I didnt look at his ressources. I will follow this game more closely, but in my opinion Flash didn't play badly. He played very solid and while the first engagement was a bit shaky, there were really no big mistakes. He had defence set up, he had viking patrolling against warp prism, bunker at third, even with turret against dt. Walls with supply etc.
Personally I think it was a good game, but the name Flash has a god-status to it, so people expect him to bash down State in 3 1/2 minutes.
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On October 12 2013 04:38 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:36 Latto wrote:
I'd really like to see Terrans use ghosts a bit more flexibly..
In late game i.e. last game flash vs state we see a high number of ghosts (which is nice, not many terrans get ghosts in general) and Terrans have high gas while going bio, so putting that gas into ghosts is the way to go.
Then in an engagement vs Protoss, use the ghosts to land the emp's and snipe high temps best you can...
but then I'd like to see Terrans use those ghosts with left over energy to use mass snipes vs zealots, I know snipe does good vs zealots and why not, imo better than cloaking the ghosts (assuming they have obs) and reducing the amount of zealots would help loads in the engagement... why don't we ever see this? Because Snipe does less damage than Ghosts' regular attack (vs Light targets) since the nerf; not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have spare apm to do that anyway.
Oh, I didn't know that. I was aware the nerf to snipe and all but didn't realize it was that big of a change that the regular attack is more efficient.
And like someone else said, it takes away from regular micro so... I take back my thoughts  [
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On October 12 2013 04:41 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:40 Daralii wrote:On October 12 2013 04:39 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 12 2013 04:38 TheDwf wrote:On October 12 2013 04:36 Latto wrote:
I'd really like to see Terrans use ghosts a bit more flexibly..
In late game i.e. last game flash vs state we see a high number of ghosts (which is nice, not many terrans get ghosts in general) and Terrans have high gas while going bio, so putting that gas into ghosts is the way to go.
Then in an engagement vs Protoss, use the ghosts to land the emp's and snipe high temps best you can...
but then I'd like to see Terrans use those ghosts with left over energy to use mass snipes vs zealots, I know snipe does good vs zealots and why not, imo better than cloaking the ghosts (assuming they have obs) and reducing the amount of zealots would help loads in the engagement... why don't we ever see this? Because Snipe does less damage than Ghosts' regular attack (vs Light targets) since the nerf; not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have spare apm to do that anyway. Snipe was ridiculous before the nerf though. I mean mass snipes was the counter to everything late game TvZ. Remember that one MVP game where he just went pure ghost and stomped ultra/infestor/brood lord? I just remember all the Antiga Shipyard TvZ games where the pewpewpew sounds destroyed Zerg armies in the middle.
You mean Metalopolis.
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On October 12 2013 04:41 Heartland wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:40 Daralii wrote:On October 12 2013 04:39 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 12 2013 04:38 TheDwf wrote:On October 12 2013 04:36 Latto wrote:
I'd really like to see Terrans use ghosts a bit more flexibly..
In late game i.e. last game flash vs state we see a high number of ghosts (which is nice, not many terrans get ghosts in general) and Terrans have high gas while going bio, so putting that gas into ghosts is the way to go.
Then in an engagement vs Protoss, use the ghosts to land the emp's and snipe high temps best you can...
but then I'd like to see Terrans use those ghosts with left over energy to use mass snipes vs zealots, I know snipe does good vs zealots and why not, imo better than cloaking the ghosts (assuming they have obs) and reducing the amount of zealots would help loads in the engagement... why don't we ever see this? Because Snipe does less damage than Ghosts' regular attack (vs Light targets) since the nerf; not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have spare apm to do that anyway. Snipe was ridiculous before the nerf though. I mean mass snipes was the counter to everything late game TvZ. Remember that one MVP game where he just went pure ghost and stomped ultra/infestor/brood lord? I just remember all the Antiga Shipyard TvZ games where the pewpewpew sounds destroyed Zerg armies in the middle.
The game in particular I'm thinking of was on... Metalopolis, I think. It was dirty.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 12 2013 04:40 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:39 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 12 2013 04:38 TheDwf wrote:On October 12 2013 04:36 Latto wrote:
I'd really like to see Terrans use ghosts a bit more flexibly..
In late game i.e. last game flash vs state we see a high number of ghosts (which is nice, not many terrans get ghosts in general) and Terrans have high gas while going bio, so putting that gas into ghosts is the way to go.
Then in an engagement vs Protoss, use the ghosts to land the emp's and snipe high temps best you can...
but then I'd like to see Terrans use those ghosts with left over energy to use mass snipes vs zealots, I know snipe does good vs zealots and why not, imo better than cloaking the ghosts (assuming they have obs) and reducing the amount of zealots would help loads in the engagement... why don't we ever see this? Because Snipe does less damage than Ghosts' regular attack (vs Light targets) since the nerf; not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have spare apm to do that anyway. Snipe was ridiculous before the nerf though. I mean mass snipes was the counter to everything late game TvZ. Why are you discussing 2011 TvZ balance?
Because I'm silly and live in the past.
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
On October 12 2013 04:41 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:40 75 wrote:On October 12 2013 04:38 NarutO wrote:
I don't see any reason to bash Flash here. He barely made mistakes. Against a Templar opening there isn't really a lot you can do, especially considering its BelShir which is very straight forward. Drops can only come from one side and attacks at the third base can be deflected quiet good as well.
Maybe people who have no clue about Terran or Protoss or the match up in particular should stop bashing players. State was ahead because the general opening allowed him to be save, get his third base up regardless and Flash couldn't really do shit. Usually if you cannot put down aggression against Protoss and deal no damage whatsoever, it results in Protoss being ahead, if you wasn't greedy to begin with.
Thats why he 'struggled' yet when you saw the fight, even though State fucked up, Flash still won convincingly, when he should not have won like that. flash didnt play good. did he? What did he do wrong according to you?
An American got to the late game with him on even terms, he must've done something wrong 
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
And Curious is somehow still in this game. Wtf.
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On October 12 2013 04:42 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:41 TheDwf wrote:On October 12 2013 04:40 75 wrote:On October 12 2013 04:38 NarutO wrote:
I don't see any reason to bash Flash here. He barely made mistakes. Against a Templar opening there isn't really a lot you can do, especially considering its BelShir which is very straight forward. Drops can only come from one side and attacks at the third base can be deflected quiet good as well.
Maybe people who have no clue about Terran or Protoss or the match up in particular should stop bashing players. State was ahead because the general opening allowed him to be save, get his third base up regardless and Flash couldn't really do shit. Usually if you cannot put down aggression against Protoss and deal no damage whatsoever, it results in Protoss being ahead, if you wasn't greedy to begin with.
Thats why he 'struggled' yet when you saw the fight, even though State fucked up, Flash still won convincingly, when he should not have won like that. flash didnt play good. did he? What did he do wrong according to you? An American got to the late game with him on even terms, he must've done something wrong
Who let you out of the underworld?
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On October 12 2013 04:39 Darkhoarse wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:38 TheDwf wrote:On October 12 2013 04:36 Latto wrote:
I'd really like to see Terrans use ghosts a bit more flexibly..
In late game i.e. last game flash vs state we see a high number of ghosts (which is nice, not many terrans get ghosts in general) and Terrans have high gas while going bio, so putting that gas into ghosts is the way to go.
Then in an engagement vs Protoss, use the ghosts to land the emp's and snipe high temps best you can...
but then I'd like to see Terrans use those ghosts with left over energy to use mass snipes vs zealots, I know snipe does good vs zealots and why not, imo better than cloaking the ghosts (assuming they have obs) and reducing the amount of zealots would help loads in the engagement... why don't we ever see this? Because Snipe does less damage than Ghosts' regular attack (vs Light targets) since the nerf; not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have spare apm to do that anyway. Snipe was ridiculous before the nerf though. I mean mass snipes was the counter to everything late game TvZ.
Remember how there was pretty much only a single player that could actually execute the transition at the highest level and how nerfing it pretty much removed any gameplay beyond BL/Infestor.
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Curious and DRG have a gentlemen's agreement to make the game back-and-forth for the crowd.
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United States23455 Posts
On October 12 2013 04:43 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On October 12 2013 04:39 Darkhoarse wrote:On October 12 2013 04:38 TheDwf wrote:On October 12 2013 04:36 Latto wrote:
I'd really like to see Terrans use ghosts a bit more flexibly..
In late game i.e. last game flash vs state we see a high number of ghosts (which is nice, not many terrans get ghosts in general) and Terrans have high gas while going bio, so putting that gas into ghosts is the way to go.
Then in an engagement vs Protoss, use the ghosts to land the emp's and snipe high temps best you can...
but then I'd like to see Terrans use those ghosts with left over energy to use mass snipes vs zealots, I know snipe does good vs zealots and why not, imo better than cloaking the ghosts (assuming they have obs) and reducing the amount of zealots would help loads in the engagement... why don't we ever see this? Because Snipe does less damage than Ghosts' regular attack (vs Light targets) since the nerf; not to mention you wouldn't necessarily have spare apm to do that anyway. Snipe was ridiculous before the nerf though. I mean mass snipes was the counter to everything late game TvZ. Remember how there was pretty much only a single player that could actually execute the transition at the highest level and how nerfing it pretty much removed any gameplay beyond BL/Infestor.
wut
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why is the DRG game so even after that dmg in early :O
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DRG vs Curious looks so much like Life vs Hyun's game earlier
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EPT
