On October 09 2013 19:47 Aunvilgod wrote: This matchup -.-
I prefer I maek roach to I maek muta because you can actually micro in roach v roach. Try and micro muta v muta and unless you have a ton more mutas, you die.
yeah, pretty much this. Roach wars are so much more interesting after watching all the mass muta no micro silliness. You can have some neat micro/transfuse/flanks all that good stuff
not to mention muta is actually still very viable. it's just so happen both players are heavy roach player with timing attack based and so we don't see much of hydra, infestors or swarm host transition etc.
On October 09 2013 19:58 Pandemona wrote: The problem i have on that game, it was only "fun" back and forth because of so many mistakes xD First off Soulkey fucked up on his upgrades leaving his +1 armor to be almost 3/4 behind that of SoO's Then the big fuck up off SoO not to start +2 after he had finished his 1-1 (well over 5-8mins) Then they both refused to do anything different and we had a back and forth u sack ur roaches ill sack mine. Topping it off with poor engagement locations xD The attack up the ramp of the natural by Soulkey was the reason he lost the game. He lost like 10 roaches for free there, very silly
He may have had a reason to delay upgrades (more roaches maybe) it doesn't necessarily make it a fuck up.
It does when you see your opponent doing the same build?
On October 09 2013 19:50 HammerKick wrote: Aren't mutas an effective switch in ZvZ when it's going to roach wars?
Considering that no one wants to make hydras
Not really to get any kind of surprising amount of mutas would be nearly 1000 gas, and that is a lot less roaches so the opponent just pushes you, you have to use the mutas to defend and meanwhile they can spore up and get hydras
Starcraft can always be put in those terms no matter the builds, but it's never the whole truth. It's situational, about mind-games and so on.
In this particular game though? With constant scrappy aggression? No way trying to go mutas would work.
maybe with some spines? would be kind of obvious the muta switch was coming, but it'd be possible
I don't really know what kind of advantage you are hoping to get though, you lose drones and minerals for spines, you lose tons of gas for mutas, meanwhile your opponent can potentially just kill you with roaches and if you manage to defend your opponent is already prepared and is in a great position while you sit there with spines, less drones and a handful of muta.
On October 09 2013 19:50 HammerKick wrote: Aren't mutas an effective switch in ZvZ when it's going to roach wars?
Considering that no one wants to make hydras
Not really to get any kind of surprising amount of mutas would be nearly 1000 gas, and that is a lot less roaches so the opponent just pushes you, you have to use the mutas to defend and meanwhile they can spore up and get hydras
Starcraft can always be put in those terms no matter the builds, but it's never the whole truth. It's situational, about mind-games and so on.
In this particular game though? With constant scrappy aggression? No way trying to go mutas would work.
maybe with some spines? would be kind of obvious the muta switch was coming, but it'd be possible
I don't really know what kind of advantage you are hoping to get though, you lose drones and minerals for spines, you lose tons of gas for mutas, meanwhile your opponent can potentially just kill you with roaches and if you manage to defend your opponent is already prepared and is in a great position while you sit there with spines, less drones and a handful of muta.
well you get map control, probably a ton of overlord kills, and then you can switch back to roach, mind control a probe and make carriers... i dunno, i leave every zvz game ><
On October 09 2013 19:47 Aunvilgod wrote: This matchup -.-
I prefer I maek roach to I maek muta because you can actually micro in roach v roach. Try and micro muta v muta and unless you have a ton more mutas, you die.
yeah, pretty much this. Roach wars are so much more interesting after watching all the mass muta no micro silliness. You can have some neat micro/transfuse/flanks all that good stuff
not to mention muta is actually still very viable. it's just so happen both players are heavy roach player with timing attack based and so we don't see much of hydra, infestors or swarm host transition etc.
That series was still much more interesting to me than basically ANY of the pre-spore buff muta vs muta games. Like, the battles actually had lots of stuff going on.
On October 09 2013 19:58 Pandemona wrote: The problem i have on that game, it was only "fun" back and forth because of so many mistakes xD First off Soulkey fucked up on his upgrades leaving his +1 armor to be almost 3/4 behind that of SoO's Then the big fuck up off SoO not to start +2 after he had finished his 1-1 (well over 5-8mins) Then they both refused to do anything different and we had a back and forth u sack ur roaches ill sack mine. Topping it off with poor engagement locations xD The attack up the ramp of the natural by Soulkey was the reason he lost the game. He lost like 10 roaches for free there, very silly
He may have had a reason to delay upgrades (more roaches maybe) it doesn't necessarily make it a fuck up.
It does when you see your opponent doing the same build?
If your opponent goes for upgrades you can either match his upgrades or hit a timing before his upgrades hit. perhaps he was going for the later choice. He also played really smart by resetting the roach counts so soulkey couldn't use his upgrade advantage properly.
On October 09 2013 19:50 HammerKick wrote: Aren't mutas an effective switch in ZvZ when it's going to roach wars?
Considering that no one wants to make hydras
Not really to get any kind of surprising amount of mutas would be nearly 1000 gas, and that is a lot less roaches so the opponent just pushes you, you have to use the mutas to defend and meanwhile they can spore up and get hydras
Starcraft can always be put in those terms no matter the builds, but it's never the whole truth. It's situational, about mind-games and so on.
In this particular game though? With constant scrappy aggression? No way trying to go mutas would work.
maybe with some spines? would be kind of obvious the muta switch was coming, but it'd be possible
I don't really know what kind of advantage you are hoping to get though, you lose drones and minerals for spines, you lose tons of gas for mutas, meanwhile your opponent can potentially just kill you with roaches and if you manage to defend your opponent is already prepared and is in a great position while you sit there with spines, less drones and a handful of muta.
well you get map control, probably a ton of overlord kills, and then you can switch back to roach, mind control a probe and make carriers... i dunno, i leave every zvz game ><
We need a map with neutral Probes and SCVs just so Z can mind control them and build their stuff!
this is what TvZ is missing. how does a map affect tech choice? even if they still use roach style, at least it is nice to have some knowledge that player can do something different because of the map and casters can talk about it
On October 09 2013 20:01 Kasaraki wrote: Ugh this christian poprock is so fucking shitty. It's literally the worst music ever.
Nah that gangsta rapper meets euro disco like flo rajda is probably worse. Unless you're drunk and someone is rubbing a ass against you then it's alright I guess.