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On July 30 2013 21:36 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:24 ffadicted wrote:
Ahmahgaaawd I missed this series but sitting here at work going full WHAT THA F
Can anyone give me a summary of the games? No live report :[ Game 1: Banshees by Maru, late turret by Innovation, marine tank banshee all-in by Maru kills Innovation because he isn't scouting trying to defend from the banshees. Game 2: Proxy starport into elevator marine hellion (2 medivacs). Innovation goes Raven first on his Starport because he expects banshees, and then cancels a tank. GG. Game 3: Proxy 2rax vs CC first lol Game 4: Similar openings, but Innovation is too aggressive out on the map and carelessly loses a lot of units. Maru does incredible damage on the counter and just macros to victory, sealing the win with a couple of big drops.
So.. Maru cheesed his way into the finals. Sad that Bogus didn't adapt and scout earlier to counter Maru.
EDIT: we all know that even Bogus said his TvT is not that good, so it is expected that he fell in that MU.
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On July 30 2013 22:12 renaissanceMAN wrote:
anybody else think it's kind of bizarre that we haven't seen reigns like bw? where a player was absolutely dominant for 1-2 years (oov, nada, flash, savior) sure MVP and life were king of the hill for a while, but it wasn't any more than 6-8 months at the most... nope, not at all.
Relative fast patches and sc2 being young (relative to brood war) would make that pretty expected. Even if this doesn't explain all of it, it's not 'bizarre'.
edit: @post below: agreed, the amount of tournaments also has an influence.
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On July 30 2013 22:09 renaissanceMAN wrote:
i think it's kinda hard to declare maru the better player when he bested innovation in one series...
I'd like to see maru's tvz and tvp, i bet they're not nearly as crisp as innovation's
also has maru ever won a 1v1 tournament? I know MarineKing has won some team leagues but...
Fixed it for ya.
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Austria24417 Posts
On July 30 2013 22:12 renaissanceMAN wrote:
anybody else think it's kind of bizarre that we haven't seen reigns like bw? where a player was absolutely dominant for 1-2 years (oov, nada, flash, savior) sure MVP and life were king of the hill for a while, but it wasn't any more than 6-8 months at the most...
I feel like that's because a) the game is still heavily changing all the time and b) there are more tournaments in SC2. You can't be everywhere and others will attend tournaments you didn't go to. That means that even if you're winning every GSL, there'll still be glory for others who do well in foreign tournaments.
Take Polt for example. He hasn't been playing in Korea for quite some time now but he's doing so well in international tournaments that he's still rightfully counted among the best players in the world.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 30 2013 22:14 GWdeathscythe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:36 lichter wrote:On July 30 2013 21:24 ffadicted wrote:
Ahmahgaaawd I missed this series but sitting here at work going full WHAT THA F
Can anyone give me a summary of the games? No live report :[ Game 1: Banshees by Maru, late turret by Innovation, marine tank banshee all-in by Maru kills Innovation because he isn't scouting trying to defend from the banshees. Game 2: Proxy starport into elevator marine hellion (2 medivacs). Innovation goes Raven first on his Starport because he expects banshees, and then cancels a tank. GG. Game 3: Proxy 2rax vs CC first lol Game 4: Similar openings, but Innovation is too aggressive out on the map and carelessly loses a lot of units. Maru does incredible damage on the counter and just macros to victory, sealing the win with a couple of big drops. So.. Maru cheesed his way into the finals. Sad that Bogus didn't adapt and scout earlier to counter Maru.
If Innovation had scouted properly and played safe (Game 1 he knew it was probably banshees, and his turret was still late; Game 2 raven first is... questionable. ) he would have won easy. It wasn't sad, it was just being unprepared.
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Northern Ireland23745 Posts
On July 30 2013 22:16 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:12 renaissanceMAN wrote:
anybody else think it's kind of bizarre that we haven't seen reigns like bw? where a player was absolutely dominant for 1-2 years (oov, nada, flash, savior) sure MVP and life were king of the hill for a while, but it wasn't any more than 6-8 months at the most... nope, not at all. Relative fast patches and sc2 being young (relative to brood war) would make that pretty expected. Even if this doesn't explain all of it, it's not 'bizarre'.
Mvp 100% could have if not for injury. Even with it he's the closest we've had to a Federer/Woods figure
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On July 30 2013 22:12 bittman wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:03 Ghanburighan wrote:On July 30 2013 21:23 opterown wrote:On July 30 2013 21:20 Ghanburighan wrote:On July 30 2013 18:35 bo1b wrote:
Looks like tasteless was right about that maru 4:0 Tastradamus! I do have to throw a rock in Blizzard's garden, though. This series showcases why you don't patch often and in the middle of the season. The meta doesn't get time to develop (this was really the first major post-patch TvT series) which leads to a ton of coin-flips (game 2, raven for anti-banshee into dying to a elevator strat) and unseen all-ins (game 1 - oh, is that how many marines you can afford now together with cloak-banshee? Nice to know, Maru.). As much as people hate the hellbat, this patch should be remembered as one of the worst in history: 1) They didn't test it properly 2) It has a big impact on another MU (TvP) 3) It was done in the middle of the season, leading to terrible series. bomber-bogus and bomber-flash were post-patch too i think The patch hit on the 11th of July, I'm pretty sure the patch hit Korea later than other regions. I don't know the exact date, though. Even then, we're not talking of a few games here, meta takes longer to develop. On July 30 2013 21:24 Vari wrote:On July 30 2013 21:20 Ghanburighan wrote:On July 30 2013 18:35 bo1b wrote:
Looks like tasteless was right about that maru 4:0 Tastradamus! I do have to throw a rock in Blizzard's garden, though. This series showcases why you don't patch often and in the middle of the season. The meta doesn't get time to develop (this was really the first major post-patch TvT series) which leads to a ton of coin-flips (game 2, raven for anti-banshee into dying to a elevator strat) and unseen all-ins (game 1 - oh, is that how many marines you can afford now together with cloak-banshee? Nice to know, Maru.). As much as people hate the hellbat, this patch should be remembered as one of the worst in history: 1) They didn't test it properly 2) It has a big impact on another MU (TvP) 3) It was done in the middle of the season, leading to terrible series. I don't accept that there wasn't enough time for the players to prep for tvt... they both played in their style, innovation didn't scout much, the outcome is not surprising at all. innovation made clear decisions in every game that led to losses, but it wasn't because he suddenly doesn't know how to play since the hellbat was nerfed. he didn't have the info and didn't get lucky. It's not that Inno didn't prep (he might have not due to SPL, but who knows), I'm saying that no-one knows the new meta, or all the available builds. This takes time, months sometimes. To be fair, there's always a tournament going on. You could argue that they should patch between seasons, but the same argument rings true: the meta wouldn't really be developed already for the first tournament back since a patch. In fact, the meta isn't even patch specific. I could argue that the "new meta" is always happening, patch or no. If someone changes the meta tomorrow, then they're going to look like a great player. Almost every champ basically takes the metagame and does something to it to pull ahead. Also if Innovation didn't prepare for a Ro4 of OSL for the WCS because of SPL Bo1 then he needs to get his shit sorted. I hope that was sarcastic =P
To say that there's a tournament going on all the time is a fair point. Even if you schedule it for end of August (mostly lans during that time), it's not clear that a basic new meta will develop before the end of the season. The question is, does the off-season period and Ro32, Ro16 matter less than the finals. I'd argue it does as the skill-difference is often larger due to seeding, allowing people to beat inferior players mechanically, rather than relying on solid builds. (The opposite argument - if people have more time to prepare and it's a Bo7, the impact is mitigated - only sounds bad due to the events today).
As for the meta developing anyway, I'd say that's won fair and square. The player innovated and should be able to reap the benefits. If it's an arbitrary Blizzard change, it favours the player that got lucky in the confusion of random builds, rather than showcases the best player. We praise Maru because he won, but he did flip the coin a lot, and got out lucky.
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Maru v Bomber finals! gogo ESF underdogs
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On July 30 2013 22:18 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:16 Yorbon wrote:On July 30 2013 22:12 renaissanceMAN wrote:
anybody else think it's kind of bizarre that we haven't seen reigns like bw? where a player was absolutely dominant for 1-2 years (oov, nada, flash, savior) sure MVP and life were king of the hill for a while, but it wasn't any more than 6-8 months at the most... nope, not at all. Relative fast patches and sc2 being young (relative to brood war) would make that pretty expected. Even if this doesn't explain all of it, it's not 'bizarre'. Mvp 100% could have if not for injury. Even with it he's the closest we've had to a Federer/Woods figure
I'm always adamant that if Mvp hadn't lost to MMA and Leenock twice during the end of 2011 it wouldn't be up for discussion, it just would be.
He basically had 3 Ro4 and 1 runner up finish in that entire end of 2011 period. 2 at the hands of Leenock (MLG, GSL Nov). 2 at the hands of MMA (GSL Oct, Blizz Cup).
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On July 30 2013 22:07 DarkLordOlli wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:06 redviper wrote:On July 30 2013 21:59 Wombat_NI wrote:On July 30 2013 21:57 redviper wrote:
Innovation is really the best player in the world. Lolololololoooool (can't type enough lolz on tur phone).
And still, I bet he will be number on power rank. Mary read him like a book, opened it up and then burned all the pages. Who is then? Runner-up, winner, Ro4 in the hardest leagues in SC2 innovation has won the grand total of ONE tournament. remember when taeja was unbeatable? Remember when fruitdealer was unbeatable? right now, Maru is a better player. Lucky for innovation that osl bo1 format kept him safe in ro32. Disagree heavily. Maru's TvT may be better, it probably is, but Innovation is still the overall better player. If you wanna go down the tournaments won route, how many has Maru won?
I don't think Maru is the best player. I said Maru is a better player right now.
Innovation is nowhere near the levels of the hype that people seem to associate to him. He didn't show any innovation (haha) or insight in his matches ever. Yeah he has good mechanics but how has he evolved the metagame?
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On July 30 2013 22:18 Wombat_NI wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:16 Yorbon wrote:On July 30 2013 22:12 renaissanceMAN wrote:
anybody else think it's kind of bizarre that we haven't seen reigns like bw? where a player was absolutely dominant for 1-2 years (oov, nada, flash, savior) sure MVP and life were king of the hill for a while, but it wasn't any more than 6-8 months at the most... nope, not at all. Relative fast patches and sc2 being young (relative to brood war) would make that pretty expected. Even if this doesn't explain all of it, it's not 'bizarre'. Mvp 100% could have if not for injury. Even with it he's the closest we've had to a Federer/Woods figure I think so too, but he would be the exception.
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United States97274 Posts
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Lol, after game 2, innovation looked shaken. After game 3, he was just broken.
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On July 30 2013 22:12 renaissanceMAN wrote:
anybody else think it's kind of bizarre that we haven't seen reigns like bw? where a player was absolutely dominant for 1-2 years (oov, nada, flash, savior) sure MVP and life were king of the hill for a while, but it wasn't any more than 6-8 months at the most...
1. SC2 is a tidbit more volatile because of easier mechanics.
2. BW players are a bit overglorified. Same like other sports, you just forget their losses during their primetime and remember the big wins. Additionaly there are way more tournaments these days, so its much more difficult to win them all then in BW days.
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I kept clicking the Spoilers expecting to see Innovation take a win ... it just never came.
I though Maru would win but I didn't think it would be a sweep. Good shit maru :D
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On July 30 2013 21:29 MisterTea wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 21:26 Azza wrote:
where can vods be seen? please not youtube. cant find them either only on twitch channels which are p2watch, thought there was free vods around somewhere maybe not uploaded yet
OSL twitch vods should be free but they are not up yet last I checked.
First game of the series is free, not others though.
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On July 30 2013 22:18 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 22:14 GWdeathscythe wrote:On July 30 2013 21:36 lichter wrote:On July 30 2013 21:24 ffadicted wrote:
Ahmahgaaawd I missed this series but sitting here at work going full WHAT THA F
Can anyone give me a summary of the games? No live report :[ Game 1: Banshees by Maru, late turret by Innovation, marine tank banshee all-in by Maru kills Innovation because he isn't scouting trying to defend from the banshees. Game 2: Proxy starport into elevator marine hellion (2 medivacs). Innovation goes Raven first on his Starport because he expects banshees, and then cancels a tank. GG. Game 3: Proxy 2rax vs CC first lol Game 4: Similar openings, but Innovation is too aggressive out on the map and carelessly loses a lot of units. Maru does incredible damage on the counter and just macros to victory, sealing the win with a couple of big drops. So.. Maru cheesed his way into the finals. Sad that Bogus didn't adapt and scout earlier to counter Maru. If Innovation had scouted properly and played safe (Game 1 he knew it was probably banshees, and his turret was still late; Game 2 raven first is... questionable. ) he would have won easy. It wasn't sad, it was just being unprepared.
He saw the banshee (so he scouted) but he played in his old robotic way. He didn't react because he isn't imaginative. Look at how he lost his banshee at the end of the first game.
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EPT
