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On July 24 2013 02:30 syriuszonito wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:23 c0sm0naut wrote:On July 24 2013 02:17 syriuszonito wrote:On July 24 2013 02:15 c0sm0naut wrote:On July 24 2013 02:14 syriuszonito wrote:
Are we slowly getting to a point where ppl start to realise bio+mine is a bit too cost effective in good hands? Hurray! everything is too cost effective in innovation's hands edit: also there is nothing forcing zergs into muta/ling/bane all units that are weak against this strategy Thats right but if you dont mind, could you tell me which composition can actually trade efficiently vs bio+mine? roaches, lings banes early infestors, lings mid game ultralisks+ infestor late game While you can trade armies with the compositions you mention, drops will make you lose the economy battle (speed medivacs is what forces zergs to go muta).
Are you slowly getting to a point where you are going to be a little bit more rational with your balance whine (NOTE: Whining can never be rational, but you can make it not so horrible) ? Hurray!
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On July 24 2013 02:30 syriuszonito wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:23 c0sm0naut wrote:On July 24 2013 02:17 syriuszonito wrote:On July 24 2013 02:15 c0sm0naut wrote:On July 24 2013 02:14 syriuszonito wrote:
Are we slowly getting to a point where ppl start to realise bio+mine is a bit too cost effective in good hands? Hurray! everything is too cost effective in innovation's hands edit: also there is nothing forcing zergs into muta/ling/bane all units that are weak against this strategy Thats right but if you dont mind, could you tell me which composition can actually trade efficiently vs bio+mine? roaches, lings banes early infestors, lings mid game ultralisks+ infestor late game While you can trade armies with the compositions you mention, drops will make you lose the economy battle (speed medivacs is what forces zergs to go muta).
Was Zerg's "static" defence removed in HotS?
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On July 24 2013 01:33 Tachion wrote:
At the moment it looks impossible to stop an unhindered 3 base innovation. I was surprised Soulkey let him get to that point. Once the parade pushes start Zerg just falls farther and farther behind with each attack as they can't deal with the MMMM efficiently enough. I would really love to see a Zerg fight that straight up and win somehow.
Why don't we see mass terran wins then in tournaments?
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On July 24 2013 02:17 syriuszonito wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:15 c0sm0naut wrote:On July 24 2013 02:14 syriuszonito wrote:
Are we slowly getting to a point where ppl start to realise bio+mine is a bit too cost effective in good hands? Hurray! everything is too cost effective in innovation's hands edit: also there is nothing forcing zergs into muta/ling/bane all units that are weak against this strategy Thats right but if you dont mind, could you tell me which composition can actually trade efficiently vs bio+mine?
"bio mine" is not countered generically by anything other than infestor/ultra/bane/broodlord. However, a specific composition of marines/marauders/mines/medivacs can be countered depending on the balance of the composition. For example, if the terran's composition shifts heavily in favor of marauders, a very heavy combo of lings + banes + some ultras and infestors to detonate the mines with infested terrans completely stomp the composition, while going up to broodlords for the ultimate counter. A very heavy marine composition obviously gets stomped by ultralisks
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On July 24 2013 02:45 Snowbear wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 01:33 Tachion wrote:
At the moment it looks impossible to stop an unhindered 3 base innovation. I was surprised Soulkey let him get to that point. Once the parade pushes start Zerg just falls farther and farther behind with each attack as they can't deal with the MMMM efficiently enough. I would really love to see a Zerg fight that straight up and win somehow. Why don't we see mass terran wins then in tournaments?
Because Innovation never goes to those tournaments.
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On July 24 2013 02:30 syriuszonito wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 02:23 c0sm0naut wrote:On July 24 2013 02:17 syriuszonito wrote:On July 24 2013 02:15 c0sm0naut wrote:On July 24 2013 02:14 syriuszonito wrote:
Are we slowly getting to a point where ppl start to realise bio+mine is a bit too cost effective in good hands? Hurray! everything is too cost effective in innovation's hands edit: also there is nothing forcing zergs into muta/ling/bane all units that are weak against this strategy Thats right but if you dont mind, could you tell me which composition can actually trade efficiently vs bio+mine? roaches, lings banes early infestors, lings mid game ultralisks+ infestor late game While you can trade armies with the compositions you mention, drops will make you lose the economy battle (speed medivacs is what forces zergs to go muta).
nothing forces you to go mutas man, plenty of zergs are doing mass roach in the midgame now, roach and baneling timings are extremely popular because of mines. if you're playing muta you're basically saying "my unit control is so good, that i dont need roaches, i can bait out the mines with lings, and will use that extra cash to harass/shut down drops with"
you're weaker vs drops with one strategy(roaches) and weaker vs frontal pushes with the other(muta). if you take a one dimensional view on it, sure, terran can play perfectly and do free damage because there are no mutalisks, or terran can do a perfect parade push of mine/bio/medics vs you when you go muta and you not have enough core army. no one plays perfect though, and the average ladder master terran has like a quarter or an eighth of the multitasking innovation does.
the top Z constantly counter attack with lings and cut drones to surprise terrans with a lot of units and crush pushes. top z constantly take 10 min 4ths and have a macro hatchery at that time as well, hive is done at 14 min in most pro matches which is somehting i can't say for ladder zergs at all (i'm about 1k but just switched to T from random)
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dont see a lot of ways to beat innovation, if zergs wanna do so vs him its probably gonna be something like jd did vs him (innovation never really got to 3base) surprised bout symbol, name wise i dont expect him to lose to someone like maru in a bo5
btw, tip of the day, never tell people your ladder rank or how many points u got if u dont ve a gun pointed at u.
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Can someone explain why soulkey and innovation deserved to win more? Because they have to deserve it more, because there is so much whine...
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On July 24 2013 03:22 {ToT}ColmA wrote:
dont see a lot of ways to beat innovation, if zergs wanna do so vs him its probably gonna be something like jd did vs him (innovation never really got to 3base) surprised bout symbol, name wise i dont expect him to lose to someone like maru in a bo5
btw, tip of the day, never tell people your ladder rank or how many points u got if u dont ve a gun pointed at u.
In that game Innovation didnt go for a early 3rd cc and tried to end it quickly with a 3 rax push because the third was too far away to take early. I think we mainly need to look at maps because on most maps its easy for a terran to take a third early (9.30 mins) and defend it with minimal units.
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Innovation, the most consistent Terran I have EVER seen, dated back from WoL. He is the best and balance should not be balanced around HIM. Look how Blizzard balanced Terran around MVP end of WoL, it was horrible and made ALL terran unable to compete.
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On July 24 2013 03:35 Fearest wrote:
Innovation, the most consistent Terran I have EVER seen, dated back from WoL. He is the best and balance should not be balanced around HIM. Look how Blizzard balanced Terran around MVP end of WoL, it was horrible and made ALL terran unable to compete.
I agree, and i disagree about nerfing specific units at this point. They just need to look at maps and vary them up a bit cause most have easy to get thirds.
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Thanks...wish i could of watched live and got 720p, but 480 isn't too bad
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On July 19 2013 13:04 painkilla wrote:
Maru > Symbol
Supernova > Rain
Innovation > Soulkey
First > Bomber
Not surprised at all to see Symbol got his behind handed to him by Maru. Symbol has always been relied on gimmicky strats vT in Hots and it was going to be figured out soon enough. Innovation just has Soulkey's number as always (3-0 him three times now).
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Watching the rebroadcast which is currently at 5500 viewers, pretty nuts
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Innovation is closing on quickly on unequaled dominance of oov/he who must not be named/Jaedong/Flash and Mvp.
Craziest part is that hes doing it while Mvp/Flash/JD are still in the scene and kicking.
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United States97274 Posts
On July 24 2013 04:09 LighT. wrote:
Innovation is closing on quickly on unequaled dominance of oov/he who must not be named/Jaedong/Flash and Mvp.
Craziest part is that hes doing it while Mvp/Flash/JD are still in the scene and kicking.
he hit the highest peak rating of all time on aligulac today
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EPT
